The First Recorded LIE- taught by most of Churchainity!

[theQuestion]

"In the Day you eat of that tree, We will take you to Heaven!"- Stranger 2:17

 

[theQuestion]

And Paul was inspired to write that Adam was NOT deceived- but rebelled anyway....

 

[theQuestion]

Then, believing that- they DON'T EVEN BELIEVE THEIR OWN GOSPEL!
They sing "Jesus DIED for you!" while teaching he NEVER died!

 

[Richard_oti]

Rich, Luke 16 is a parable-

Is it? Can you show me from the text where it is said to be as such? Or, is that the manner that you desire to interpret it, so as not to have to face what it may otherwise imply, and the implications thereof.

Jude quoted Enoch as authoritative. Jude is considered to be "Scripture", inspired by 'Elohim. Enoch is in the Ethiopian Canon.

Jude 4,6,13-15 are all from Enoch.
Jude 9 is a direct allusion to the "Assumption of Moses".

2 Peter 2:4; 3:13 clearly allude to Enoch.

As is also evident, you did not even look into nor consider Enoch 22 in your response. Instead, you gave me a "canned" "Churchianity" response. Apparently you are no better than those you accuse of such.

<snip>

FACE IT! Churchianity has lied thru their teeth, while picking pockets, for 2,000 years!

Is that the manner that your "church" or "denomination" has left you feeling?

 

[theQuestion]

Is it? Can you show me from the text where it is said to be as such? Or, is that the manner that you desire to interpret it, so as not to have to face what it may otherwise imply, and the implications thereof.
Jude quoted Enoch as authoritative. Jude is considered to be "Scripture", inspired by 'Elohim. Enoch is in the Ethiopian Canon.

Enoch existed, so yes they refer to him, and quote him once.
Even if the quote was worked into the 'Book of Enoch', it doesn't prove it authentic.
Moses and the prophets never quoted from such a book- which would have been made LONG before they were alive.
Joseph Smith made an ENTIRE counterfeit Bible; do you believe it from God, too, since it includes Jesus and other biblical characters?

And do you think Jesus had to say "Now this is a parable, don't take it literally!"?
Do you know who in the crowd was WEARING purple and linen and were rich?

 

[Richard_oti]

Enoch existed, so yes they refer to him, and quote him once.

So here you admit that Enoch was quoted, and in your very next sentence, you attempt to deny that it is authentic and that it was "worked into" Enoch.

Even if the quote was worked into the 'Book of Enoch', it doesn't prove it authentic.

And yet, fragments of the Book of Enoch were found amoung the DSS. Not unlike the fragment of the LXX you introduced from the DSS. BTW: I still awaiting answers to my questions with regard to the fragment you introduced.

Moses and the prophets never quoted from such a book- which would have been made LONG before they were alive.

In Bere'shit (Genesis) 6:4b when the sons of God came unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them

Who are the "sons of God" spoken of? And what did they do?


In Matthew 22 and Mark 12 Yeshua` speaks of neither marrying nor being given in marriage, but being as the angels in heaven. Are there any sources in which we also see that?

Joseph Smith made an ENTIRE counterfeit Bible; do you believe it from God, too, since it includes Jesus and other biblical characters?

Have you ever read it? IOW: Are you speaking from first hand knowledge, or are you merely parroting what you have been told.

And do you think Jesus had to say "Now this is a parable, don't take it literally!"?
Do you know who in the crowd was WEARING purple and linen and were rich?

Would be hard for you to accept Luke 16:19 and on, as it disagrees with your conceived notions regarding the state of dead.

 

[FHII]

Concerning the book of Enoch:

I have a copy of it. It does contain the quote from Jude that the lord will come with 10K of his saints.

Its been years since I read it and while it has some fantastic accounts, I don't remember any major discrepencies against the Bible. Thats more than I can say compared to Josephus. But like I said.... Its been a while so I could be wrong.

I do believe there was a book of Enoch. Whether the one I have and everyone else has access to is the real deal.... I don't know. But consider that there are many "lost" books that are mentioned in the Bible. There is the book of Jashur, an epistle to the Leodicians and little known fact: 1 Corinthians is actually the second letter written by Paul to them.

That being said, i don't consider Enoch part of the Bible. Thus, I don't rely on it when discussing doctrine. However I don't conpletely discard it either.

I mean... What if it is authentic?

Just my opinion. ..

 

[theQuestion]

Richard, you, like most, see only what you WANT to see.
There we MANY such phony books, that the public KNEW as such.
Why not become a Mormon?

 

[theQuestion]

Concerning the book of Enoch:

I have a copy of it. It does contain the quote from Jude that the lord will come with 10K of his saints.

Its been years since I read it and while it has some fantastic accounts, I don't remember any major discrepencies against the Bible. Thats more than I can say compared to Josephus. But like I said.... Its been a while so I could be wrong.

I do believe there was a book of Enoch. Whether the one I have and everyone else has access to is the real deal.... I don't know. But consider that there are many "lost" books that are mentioned in the Bible. There is the book of Jashur, an epistle to the Leodicians and little known fact: 1 Corinthians is actually the second letter written by Paul to them.

That being said, i don't consider Enoch part of the Bible. Thus, I don't rely on it when discussing doctrine. However I don't conpletely discard it either.

I mean... What if it is authentic?

Just my opinion. ..

There IS no "what if". Even the Roman Government Church knew it wasn't authentic.
Do you think Noah brought it on the ark?
It's been decades since I started to read it- and as with the Book of Mormon, the Koran, and Buddist books it doesn't take long to see it was fabricated.

 

[Richard_oti]

Richard, you, like most, see only what you WANT to see.

Are you exempt from such?

<snip>

 

[Richard_oti]

Concerning the book of Enoch:

I have a copy of it. It does contain the quote from Jude that the lord will come with 10K of his saints.

Its been years since I read it and while it has some fantastic accounts, I don't remember any major discrepencies against the Bible. Thats more than I can say compared to Josephus. But like I said.... Its been a while so I could be wrong.

I do believe there was a book of Enoch. Whether the one I have and everyone else has access to is the real deal.... I don't know. But consider that there are many "lost" books that are mentioned in the Bible. There is the book of Jashur, an epistle to the Leodicians and little known fact: 1 Corinthians is actually the second letter written by Paul to them.

That being said, i don't consider Enoch part of the Bible. Thus, I don't rely on it when discussing doctrine. However I don't conpletely discard it either.

I mean... What if it is authentic?

Just my opinion. ..

Well spoken. I sincerely thank you for sharing.

The earlier parts I found very interesting, with the plausibility and possibility. For it would shed light and understanding upon some things. I just noticed something this evening in Enoch that was there all along, that I hadn't noticed before.

And then there is the latter end, in which I found no merit myself. However the latter was also not a part of 1 Enoch. The Biblical and ancient calendar systems intrigued me which caused me to look into them to gain understanding.

 

[Richard_oti]

There IS no "what if". Even the Roman Government Church knew it wasn't authentic.

Or, they wished to suppress it, for it contains things that were / are contrary to them.

Do you think Noah brought it on the ark?

Yet, there is an account somewhere, of Noah delivering the books to Abram. Though this ol' memory of mine can not recall where it is currently. But it will come to me.

<snip>

 

[FHII]

There IS no "what if". Even the Roman Government Church knew it wasn't authentic.

Chances are greater that they didn't know if it was authentic, not that they knew it wasn't. There is a difference.

Its a moot point (not a mute point, people! A MOOT point. In other words not deaf, but irrelevant). It isn't inspired scripture as far as we know.

 

[theQuestion]

Are you exempt from such?

<snip>

NOW I am, my friend.
After being so completely fooled by the Catholic Church, and being freed by the Truth, I question EVERYTHING!
Separate Fact from Opinion!
it's not that hard...unless you really WANT to believe something unreal.

 

[amadeus]

Richard, you, like most, see only what you WANT to see.
There we MANY such phony books, that the public KNEW as such.
Why not become a Mormon?

Why not indeed?

I have a old Book of Mormon my brother [who was a Mormon at the time] gave to me. I read it when I was quite a bit younger and compared it with the Bible. Much of it paraphrases the Bible, so it is not all throw away stuff. If it was a phony someone spent a lot on it in any case to make it presentable to many. But being presentable does not make it the best place to go. An important key [perhaps one also given to Peter as per Matt 16:18] , I believe, held by more than one on this forum is to lean not on your own understanding [Prov 6:5-6] and follow the lead of Holy Spirit [Rom 8:4]. No one who really loves and serves God is absolutely an advocate of Scripture Alone no matter what they say. The Bible may be a source for them as it is for me, but without the Holy Spirit working in a person, the words of the Bible, any version, translation or language is still dead.

So can we be blessed by the Book of Enoch or by the Encyclopedia Britannica? If the Holy Spirit in us is one speaking to our hearts through it then the answer in either case is, Yes.

 

[Richard_oti]

NOW I am, my friend.

Translation: You are indeed susceptible, for those under the "illusion" that they can not be, are in fact they most likely to be.

After being so completely fooled by the Catholic Church, and being freed by the Truth, I question EVERYTHING!

Continue to question, for that is good. However from my perspective, you still have a ways to go before you are truly freed. For you have currently swallowed hook line and sinker. Thus why you parrot them, and why I perceive the depth of knowledge as swallow. For you believe certain things, but as of yet, have not grasped the depth of the matter.

Separate Fact from Opinion!

Like the "opinion" that the NWT is the most accurate? For it is indeed opinion. It is only a fact in your mind. Thus proving that you are indeed susceptible to only seeing what you want to see.

<snip>

 

[theQuestion]

Why not indeed?

I have a old Book of Mormon my brother [who was a Mormon at the time] gave to me. I read it when I was quite a bit younger and compared it with the Bible. Much of it paraphrases the Bible, so it is not all throw away stuff. If it was a phony someone spent a lot on it in any case to give make it presentable to many.

So you gave one reason why it IS "Throw Away Stuff"...
It is a Counterfeit Bible.

 

[theQuestion]

Translation: You are indeed susceptible, for those under the "illusion" that they can not be, are in fact they most likely to be.

Like the "opinion" that the NWT is the most accurate? For it is indeed opinion. It is only a fact in your mind. Thus proving that you are indeed susceptible to only seeing what you want to see.

<snip>

I never say things I can't prove.
It is not Opinion; it is a Conclusion based on DECADES of never ending comparison and research, not pompous attituude.

Care nto PROVE your claim, without Cut-n-Pasting from an idiot church site?

 

[amadeus]

So you gave one reason why it IS "Throw Away Stuff"...
It is a Counterfeit Bible.

If anything is really good only in part should it is not necessarily be thrown away? Ever hear the saying warning us not to throw away the baby with the bathwater?

All of us have learned things which were in part not good. This is where my college education fits in... Some was good keep but some to thrown out. Which is the chaff and which is the wheat? It might be better to hold onto some things until God separates them correctly for us.

When someone called him good, Jesus responded:

"... And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God." Mark 10:18

Yes, man has many things that he calls good, but according to Jesus the good is God. How well do we know God? Not everyone knows God as they should:

"Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." Matt 7:22-23

In spite of the apparently good works there is still too often a problem.

 

[theQuestion]

If anything is really good only in part should it is not necessarily be thrown away?

It is COUNTERFEIT- so has NOTHING to do with God.
Satan quoted scriptures to Jesus; do you honor SATAN?

1 Tim 4: 1- Now the spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by giving heed to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons.

Of course, this went into Full Swing way back - when the Roman Government formed its State Church ('Catholic")....