The Gift Of The Sabbath - Is It For Us? - NEW AND IMPROVED??

[Christ4Me]

Yes.
Huge difference between......
ARE sav-ed....and SHALL BE sav-ed.....WILL NOT Be sav-ed.

God will judge what we build on that foundation, our salvation, which was slaid by Jesus Christ. If we defile the temple of God with works of the flesh, wood, stubble, and hay for why they will get burned up, that foundation remains.

But the consequence of having iniquity on that foundation that defiles the Temple of God when He comes as the Bridegroom, is severe, because He will destroy that temple of God; hence physical death, but the spirit is saved.

1 Corinthians 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. 11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. 16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

So those left behind are saved by Jesus Christ, but for not looking to Him to lay aside every weight & sin daily, and sowing to the flesh in reaping corruption, they are left behind where Jesus will finish His work even in them the hard way by burning all iniquity off of that foundation, but that foundation as in that salvation, remains so their spirits will be received by Him in Heaven to wait for their resurrection after the great tribulation.

 

[BarneyFife]

Yes.
Huge difference between......
ARE sav-ed....and SHALL BE sav-ed.....WILL NOT Be sav-ed.

John had written the commandments for us to keep to be seen as abiding in Him.

1 John 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. 23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. 24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

No emphasis on keeping the sabbath for abiding in Him there.

I can't help but notice that it doesn't say "And this is His ONLY commandment," :)

 

[Taken]

Literal circumcision was a covenant imperative. One of the 'sign' commands, along with the Sabbath observance, and yet we now understand it to be a meaningless, outward observance. I mean, what spiritual value is there is having your foreskin cutoff? None, of course. Ditto for a literal Sabbath observance. It doesn't change anything. It doesn't touch the inward part of a person. It's value, like circumcision, was in it being a useful illustration of the spiritual reality that does count and mean something. Isaiah 58 bears this out. The 'rest' that counts with God is your rest from sin. Just as the circumcision that counts with God is the putting off of the sin nature from the heart, not the flesh from the penis.

It ‘WAS’ told in the OT, circumcision of foreskin, and the practice thereof, but also a foreshadow, of circumcision of the heart....which was revealed later.

(Knowledge first...more knowledge later....understanding much later).

Duet 10:
[16] Circumcision therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked.

 

[Taken]

God will judge what we build on that foundation, our salvation, which was slaid by Jesus Christ. If we defile the temple of God with works of the flesh, wood, stubble, and hay for why they will get burned up, that foundation remains.

But the consequence of having iniquity on that foundation that defiles the Temple of God when He comes as the Bridegroom, is severe, because He will destroy that temple of God; hence physical death, but the spirit is saved.

Yes caution on WHO is sitting with Authority preaching and teaching.....IF it is according to the Word of God or not......Thus the people’s JOB to verify with Scripture WHAT a cleric IS preaching and teaching.

1 Corinthians 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. 11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. 16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

So those left behind are saved by Jesus Christ, but for not looking to Him to lay aside every weight & sin daily, and sowing to the flesh in reaping corruption, they are left behind where Jesus will finish His work even in them the hard way by burning all iniquity off of that foundation, but that foundation as in that salvation, remains so their spirits will be received by Him in Heaven to wait for their resurrection after the great tribulation.[/QUOTE]

A man can NOT ‘destroy’ the Temple of God...
Jesus taught what becomes of a man WHO try’s to sneak in unnoticed. He doesn’t destroy the Temple....he is tossed out....and again in a mans Church, it is the Clerics JOB and the Peoples JOB, to exercise their power to oust.
Spiritually, in Gods Temple, God does the ousting.

Matt 22: 1-10

 

[BarneyFife]

It ‘WAS’ told in the OT, circumcision of foreskin, and the practice thereof, but also a foreshadow, of circumcision of the heart....which was revealed later.

(Knowledge first...more knowledge later....understanding much later).

Duet 10:
[16] Circumcision therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked.

Actually, I'm having a hard time finding a reference to the circumcision of the heart in the New Testament.

 

[Curtis]

Do you know of Scripture declaring that the 4th commandment--the Seventh-day Sabbath--was ceremonial and a foreshadow of the circumcision of the heart?

Neither passage refers to the Seventh-day Sabbath. There was a problem with Gentile Christians judging and persecuting Jewish converts to Christianity for retaining their festivals and seasons from the ceremonial law of Moses. The 4th commandment of God was never in question. If it were we would have evidence of Jewish uprisings protesting its annulment, which, we do not have.

The Sabbath-millennium doctrine may be more than a product of coincidence, but nowhere in the Bible is it found being taught as a prophetical foreshadow or typical-antitypical motif or as a defense for setting aside the 7th-day Sabbath of God's law. Orthodox biblical doctrine cannot be established on fascinating theories. :)

What I said was there are two examples of ceremonial shadows in the Old Testament, which were physical then, but spiritual now.

One is circumcision, which was physical and ceremonial and ended with the old covenant.

The other is the physical day of rest which was physical rest then, and the spiritual rest we have in Jesus continually now. Matthew 11:28 and 29.

The sabbaths were a shadow of Jesus, who is the substance that the shadow prefigured, Colossians 2:16-17, where we are also told to let no one judge us for not keeping a shadow.

Jesus is our sabbath Matthew 11:28-29.

FYI sabbath just means REST. The rest used to be on the 7th day, hence the term 7th day sabbath - but now Jesus is our rest, so he is our sabbath today.

 

[Curtis]

Fabulously faulty and fantastically artificial.

Try it’s absolutely accurate and right on the money.

Some people idolize the sabbath to the point of idolatry, aka Sabbatholatry, which includes denying undeniable scriptures.

 

[Curtis]

Actually, I'm having a hard time finding a reference to the circumcision of the heart in the New Testament.

Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

And here’s a bonus of truth about circumcision:

Gal 5:2 Look: I, Paul, say to you that if you accept circumcision, Christ will be of no advantage to you.

Gal 5:3 I testify again to every man who accepts circumcision that he is obligated to keep the whole law.

Gal 5:4 You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace.

 

[BarneyFife]

Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Fair enough. I was still looking, but I got distracted.

But was it actually meant to be a shadow, if the spiritual nature of the phrase was already expressed in Deuteronomy?

 

[Taken]

I can't help but notice that it doesn't say "And this is His ONLY commandment," :)

Fairly long.....

Believing “ON” is one thing, which is to reflect, “DOING”.

I would say the Apostles, were teaching with examples, for men to get an idea of the OT Law and OT Statutes having been fulfilled, is one thing....BUT yet there are specifics for men to continue ON, DOING, for their own benefit.
DOing WORKS does not save a man....but DOING Works that glorify God....benefits God (being revered) and the man (blessings and rewards).

Men repeatedly failed to KEEP the Law, Statutes, Commandments...bummer.
They were repeatedly ‘punished with negative (curses) consequences’....WHY?
BECAUSE...they had AGREED to obey .... ALL that God said to do.

EX 19:
[8] And all the people answered together, and said, [B} All that the LORD hath spoken we will do[/B]. And Moses returned the words of the people unto the LORD.

That is HOW the Law works....one a man agrees...they become subject to the consequences (penal) law for failure to obey the law.

If you are a citizen of Maine, you have agreed to abide by all laws that apply to you IN Maine. If you travel to California, you have agreed to abide by all laws that apply to a visitor in California.

Gentiles were never given nor never agreed to abide by Hebrew/Jewish OT Laws. When Jesus fulfilled OT Laws...the Tribes/Jews were the benefactors...
“IF” they accepted Jesus being the Christ, with Authority to fulfilled their Laws...
Some believed, some didn’t, same today. Some Jews remain under the Law, some don’t.
Gentiles electing to be UNDER the covenant, offered By God through Jesus, first to Jews, By Jesus teaching through Apostles to primarily teach Jews and then offered By God through Jesus, By Jesus teaching through Apostle Paul to primarily teach Gentiles.

WHY was Saul/Paul such a good candidate to primarily teach Gentiles?
BECAUSE...Saul was a Jew, expressly educated in Gods LAW, a Pharisee, Faithful to God......AND Paul was also a lawful citizen of (predominately Gentile ruled, Gentile Laws, of Rome).... IOW, Saul/Paul, had Lawful standing, among and in both, Jewish and Gentile religious and political arenas.
* Gentiles were ignorant of the Jewish God’s laws....but familiar with Gentile laws.
* Jews were knowledgeable of the Jewish God’s law, the foretold Messiah, familiar with Political Gentiles laws, familiar with Gentiles made up gods....
But many were BLINDED, to understand Jesus was their awaited Messiah.

The ISSUE “appeared” to be on the tract of ... BOTH Jews and Gentiles learning new things together.... However...After the Apostles died off....
Synagogs That WERE Preaching Christ Jesus, stopped. Jews went back to Preaching God, remaining under the law and waiting for their Messiah.
Gentiles Took over, the Preaching Christ Jesus to Gentiles. And began MUCKING it up from the earliest of days...Preaching and Teaching OUTSIDE the Word of God, while the unsuspecting illiterate listeners, knew not how to read or verify.

Jesus gave His Apostles to the Jews....and Jesus gave His Apostle Paul to the Gentiles.......with these TWO Great Commandments.....
Mark 12: expressly to ISRAEL, (but Gentiles hear also) of WHAT the Spirit of GOD IS:
Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
AND:
Mark 12:
[30] And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
[31] And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

And IF one continues to study on through Scripture....they should discover...
Those TWO commandments CAN ONLY Be ACCOMPLISHED by a man, WHO has the Power of God IN HIM....(expressly called Converted IN Christ).

We can not even keep two laws/commands....WITHOUT Gods power IN us.

Retrospect....ADAM could not keep two commands...WITHOUT Gods power IN him....(eat of every tree, which included the tree of life; Adam failed....don’t eat of the tree, of good and evil; Adam failed). Men fail all day long, without Gods Power IN them to keep those TWO commands.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Actually, I'm having a hard time finding a reference to the circumcision of the heart in the New Testament.

Post # 90 more detailed about OT, phasing into NT.

Rom 2:29 circumcision of the heart.

 

[Taken]

@BarneyFife -

Ezek (last OT book reveals OT men having been given more knowledge of heart circumcision)

Ezek 36:
[26] A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

It is part of CONVERSION. Getting the old heart prepared, with a new heart...
An acceptable place, for Gods SEED, to enter....and the mans spirit to be BORN AGAIN.

A mans old natural spirit, IS the natural mans natural Truth in his heart.
(You can know the Truth in your heart....and your Carnal Mind can know the Truth in your heart...but Carnal Minds are devious, and can ignore what your heart knows IS true and right, and ACT on the deceptive thoughts of the Carnal Mind.)

God changes the heart, God plants His Seed in the new heart, the Seed rebirth the spirit of man, the Spirit of Truth, (ie Word of God), enters the new heart, and feed the new spirit of man, Gods Truth......and that Carnal Mind of man.......that is the daily Job of man, to MAKE his Carnal MIND, subject to his new spirit.

And the knowledge continues on increasing...

 

[Christ4Me]

I can't help but notice that it doesn't say "And this is His ONLY commandment," :)

True, but like the two greatest commandments in the O.T. were...

Matthew 22:36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

But the newest greatest commandment under the N.T. is to believe in Jesus Christ.

1 John 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. 23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. 24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

That is the difference between the emphasis being on us under the Old Covenant and the emphasis that is on Jesus Christ now under the New Covenant.

 

[Christ4Me]

Yes caution on WHO is sitting with Authority preaching and teaching.....IF it is according to the Word of God or not......Thus the people’s JOB to verify with Scripture WHAT a cleric IS preaching and teaching.

1 Corinthians 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. 11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. 16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

A man can NOT ‘destroy’ the Temple of God...

If you are reading from the ESV of 1 Corinthians 3:10-17, note the difference in the KJV above. It is not man that destroy the temple of God, but it is God that will destroy the temple for man defiling the temple of God. To better put it in rightly dividing the word of truth, Paul is not talking about the Temple of God like in Jerusalem, but our physical bodies are the temples of God.

1 Corinthians 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

When a man sows to the works of the flesh, he is defiling the temple of God for why God would destroy him as the wages of sin is "physical" death.

This warning was given to the church at Thyatira to repent or else be cast into the bed of the great tribulation.

Revelation 2:18 And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass; 19 I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first. 20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. 21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. 22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. 23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works. 24 But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden. 25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.

Yet per 1 Corinthians 3:15, their spirits are saved.

 

[Curtis]

Neither passage refers to the Seventh-day Sabbath. There was a problem with Gentile Christians judging and persecuting Jewish converts to Christianity for retaining their festivals and seasons from the ceremonial law of Moses. The 4th commandment of God was never in question. If it were we would have evidence of Jewish uprisings protesting its annulment, which, we do not have.

El wrongo.

Romans 14 says God doesn’t care which days are honored by a believer, so stop judging that.

Rom 14:4 Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

Rom 14:5 One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.

Rom 14:6 The one who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord. The one who eats, eats in honor of the Lord, since he gives thanks to God, while the one who abstains, abstains in honor of the Lord and gives thanks to God.

God says to stop judging others on the days the keep, the reason being there’s no command to keep any day in the two love commands that supersede the Decalogue.

As to Colossians 2:16-17

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the SABBATH days:

Col 2:17 Which are a SHADOW of things to come; but the BODY isof Christ.


The word sabbath above, is H4521 in Strongs, and it means ALL the sabbaths, especially the WEEKLY sabbath:


G4521 (Strong)

σάββατον

sabbaton

sab'-bat-on

Of Hebrew origin [H7676]; the Sabbath(that is, Shabbath), or day of WEEKLY repose from secular avocations (also the observance or institution itself); by extension a se'nnight, that is, the interval between two Sabbaths; likewise the plural in all the above applications: - SABBATH (DAY), week.

Total KJV occurrences: 68

All the types of the sabbath are shadows of Jesus, who is the substance that casts the shadow, especially the weekly sabbath..

So let no one judge us, says the passage, over the sabbath days, because they are but fore-shadows of the rest we have in Jesus now, no longer in a ceremonial shadow, but in Him.

That’s just too clear to obfuscate.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

And because Ferris Bueller claims, <along with>, therefore, KNOW YE: <Sabbath observance to be a meaningless, outward observance>. If that isn't audacity, there is no such thing as blasphemy.

Grillerige mannetjie

I'm certain that there is value in 'having church' according to the Mosaic festival and sabbath cycle. As long as that festival and sabbath cycle is understood for what it actually is...an illustration through which we can see and appreciate the spiritual realities they represent. And I'm convinced the whole church would be doing that if it had not been for the Catholic church that stupidly made keeping the law for any reason whatsoever unlawful.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Luk. 23:56 shows Christ's female followers keeping the Sabbath days after Jesus died, and Acts shows God's Church keeping the Sabbath decades after Jesus' ascension. Logic dictates that if Christ's followers were keeping it that long after His death and ascension, then it clearly means true Christians today would be doing the same thing.

I agree that it was not God's intention to dissolve sabbath observance altogether. The Catholics foolishly did that in the supposed authority they have to change things. I believe the intention was that we would continue to congregate on the sabbath, just not for reason of covenant or any other legalistic reason, but to worship and praise the Lord.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Would you argue that His commandments against idolatry, blasphemy, and misusing His name are as useful as performing animal sacrifices?

They are more useful and meaningful and important than performing animal sacrifice. We see in several places where God tells the Israelites that he is more interested in their moral obedience over and above their service to him in the Mosaic observances. In fact, one's sacrifice and service to the observances are nothing if you don't first obey God in the matter of the obedience to treat others fairly and justly. They can never make up for or replace one's disobedience in regard to the moral law. God delivered this message to the Israelites through the prophets.

 

[BarneyFife]

El wrongo.

Romans 14 says God doesn’t care which days are honored by a believer, so stop judging that.

Rom 14:4 Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

Rom 14:5 One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.

Rom 14:6 The one who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord. The one who eats, eats in honor of the Lord, since he gives thanks to God, while the one who abstains, abstains in honor of the Lord and gives thanks to God.

God says to stop judging others on the days the keep, the reason being there’s no command to keep any day in the two love commands that supersede the Decalogue.

As to Colossians 2:16-17

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the SABBATH days:

Col 2:17 Which are a SHADOW of things to come; but the BODY isof Christ.


The word sabbath above, is H4521 in Strongs, and it means ALL the sabbaths, especially the WEEKLY sabbath:


G4521 (Strong)

σάββατον

sabbaton

sab'-bat-on

Of Hebrew origin [H7676]; the Sabbath(that is, Shabbath), or day of WEEKLY repose from secular avocations (also the observance or institution itself); by extension a se'nnight, that is, the interval between two Sabbaths; likewise the plural in all the above applications: - SABBATH (DAY), week.

Total KJV occurrences: 68

All the types of the sabbath are shadows of Jesus, who is the substance that casts the shadow, especially the weekly sabbath..

So let no one judge us, says the passage, over the sabbath days, because they are but fore-shadows of the rest we have in Jesus now, no longer in a ceremonial shadow, but in Him.

That’s just too clear to obfuscate.

I've already addressed all of this stuff. I'd prefer an engaging discussion rather than to have to field a lot of false accusations and endless protesting.

But thanks for participating. :)

 

[Brakelite]

debt of rest

Ummmm....

The Sabbath-millennium doctrine may be more than a product of coincidence, but nowhere in the Bible is it found being taught as a prophetical foreshadow or typical-antitypical motif or as a defense for setting aside the 7th-day Sabbath of God's law. Orthodox biblical doctrine cannot be established on fascinating theories

Agreed. It astonishes me the lengths people go to defend their unwillingness to obey a Commandment. Unwillingness to recognize the authority of God over their own imagination.