The Godhead/Trinity Has Already Been Scientifically Proven

[kcnalp]

Do you mean you believe only what an English translation (KJV?) says? Or do you mean you believe only what the Greek and Hebrew manuscripts literally say?

Here's a literal quote for you from the KJV: ""And Jonathan said unto David, O LORD God of Israel, when I have sounded my father about tomorrow any time, ...."1 Samuel 20:12.

So David is literally the LORD God??

I have over 40 translations and they all insist that Jesus is God, even the NWT! Are you JW?

 

[101G]

The answer to such “proof” is obvious: “speaker confusion.” Isaiah, like most other Bible writers, often interspersed the conversation of one person with statements by others and often doesn’t identify the new speakers. Very often they appear to be comments by Isaiah himself.

That this is very likely the case here is shown, not only by context, but by these modern trinitarian Bible translations: The RSV and the NIV Bibles show by quotation marks and indenting that Isaiah himself said all the words (or the final comment) in Is. 48:16.

I must disagree. this is the Lord Jesus speaking,

"Jamieson, noting that Isaiah, not Christ, is the author of the passage, stated that, 'Isaiah here speaks not in his own person so much as in that of the Messiah, to whom alone, in the fullest sense, the words apply.'" - Coffman Commentaries on the Old and New Testament, Is. 48:16.

also I disagree again, and here's why. the verse states, Isaiah 48:16 "Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me." (KJV). now watch the comparison,

Isaiah 45:19 "I have not spoken in secret, in a dark place of the earth: I said not unto the seed of Jacob, Seek ye me in vain: I the LORD speak righteousness, I declare things that are right."

Isaiah 48:3 "I have declared the former things from the beginning; and they went forth out of my mouth, and I shewed them; I did them suddenly, and they came to pass."
Isaiah 48:4 "Because I knew that thou art obstinate, and thy neck is an iron sinew, and thy brow brass;"
Isaiah 48:5 "I have even from the beginning declared it to thee; before it came to pass I shewed it thee: lest thou shouldest say, Mine idol hath done them, and my graven image, and my molten image, hath commanded them."
Isaiah 48:6 "Thou hast heard, see all this; and will not ye declare it? I have shewed thee new things from this time, even hidden things, and thou didst not know them."
Isaiah 48:7 "They are created now, and not from the beginning; even before the day when thou heardest them not; lest thou shouldest say, Behold, I knew them."

unless Isaiah is God himself I must conclude that this is God almighty speaking in every instance of scripture. one must always compare scripture to scriptures to clear up any, “speaker confusion.”

PICJAG.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

as said, not trying to convince you, but God give "WARNING" of danger before it happen. .... you been warned.

PICJAG.

Now you not only lie to me, you threaten me, on a public forum. Get use to something, you're just an imperfect person like anyone else. You're not infallible like God. I know you have your beliefs about what the scriptures say, so do others. That doesn't mean everyone is going to agree with you and they have a right to disagree with you. No one should be threatened for that. I don't believe it's God giving warning, I think it's you, an imperfect person like anyone else. It seems like you're trying to use intimidation, which is a form of brainwashing to convince people they shouldn't be disagreeing with you, interesting. That's how you think we should treat each other, to threaten each other. Every time you post you show you really don't understand the love thing.

 

[101G]

Now you not only lie to me, you threaten me, on a public forum.

if I did posted it.

PICJAG

 

[kcnalp]

Yes, I believe that Reincarnation is Biblical. I know most people here hate that idea... lol.

There will be a lot of people in Hell who will wish it was Biblical.

 

[Gregory]

The Trinity debate is over. Science and the Bible are (as usual) in agreement.

The Godhead has been Scientifically proven to exist beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Let's go over some of the basics, beginning with this verse...

Romans 1:20
"For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse"

There is an incredible amount of information packed in that verse. We will now break it down into easy to understand parts.

Invisible Things of Him
The 'Invisible Things of Him' is the Word of God that serves as the foundation of the Reality that we live in. It can be likened to Software Code running a Simulation, similar to the movie The Matrix...

Like a game of Sims, our Universe exists in this Code. How do we know? God has taught us this...

Hebrews 11:3
"Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear"

In stunning plainness of speech, God is teaching us that our entire Reality is made of things that are completely invisible to us.

In other words, there is a 'Framework' behind all that we see. That Framework is the Word of God...

To be continued...

Base12 says:

Hebrews 11:3
"Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear"

This is my analysis of this scritpure:
"things which are seen" = "things which do appear" = actual trees, shrubs, animals, humans etc.

These actual things which are seen are not made of things which do appear. Kind of a riddle, right? So the question is, what are these actual things made of. They are made of atoms and molecules, and even smaller units that fit closely together, so closely that you cannot see the actual molecule, but you can see what the molecules add up to, a tree, shrubs, animals, humans, etc.

IOW if you took a tree and broke it down to its smallest unit, you could not even see it. Hence a tree is not made of the things wich are seen. So I submit, the framework is unseen atoms and molecules and even smaller units, all doing their work by the word of God, and the glory of God.

Good discussion, thanks for bringing it up.

 

[101G]

Base12 says:

This is my analysis of this scritpure:
"things which are seen" = "things which do appear" = actual trees, shrubs, animals, humans etc.

These actual things which are seen are not made of things which do appear. Kind of a riddle, right? So the question is, what are these actual things made of. They are made of atoms and molecules, and even smaller units that fit closely together, so closely that you cannot see the actual molecule, but you can see what the molecules add up to, a tree, shrubs, animals, humans, etc.

IOW if you took a tree and broke it down to its smallest unit, you could not even see it. Hence a tree is not made of the things wich are seen. So I submit, the framework is unseen atoms and molecules and even smaller units, all doing their work by the word of God, and the glory of God.

Good discussion, thanks for bringing it up.

Good response, and welcom to the site.

true the unseen is the source of what we see. Romans 1:19 "Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them." Romans 1:20 "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:"

the quantum world exist, scientists has confirm this by the double slit experiment, and it is our observation, by light, which help shape this world in what see and understand.


PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[kcnalp]

Good response, and welcom to the site.

true the unseen is the source of what we see. Romans 1:19 "Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them." Romans 1:20 "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:"

the quantum world exist, scientists has confirm this by the double slit experiment, and it is our observation, by light, which help shape this world in what see and understand.

Why do you reject the Scriptures that say "Jesus is the Son of God" and "God the Father"? That sounds like Muslim.

 

[101G]

Why do you reject the Scriptures that say "Jesus is the Son of God" and "God the Father"? That sounds like Muslim.

now I sound like a Muslim? how do a Muslim sound? ...... that's ok, don't answer.... YIKES!.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[Gregory]

I have over 40 translations and they all insist that Jesus is God, even the NWT! Are you JW?

I believe Jesus is God, but who is the God Jesus calls "my God" and "my Father"?
John 20:17 King James Version (KJV)
17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Does Jesus, who is God, have a God that he worships?
Is this God of Jesus's separate from Jesus, who is God? If Jesus is ascending unto "his God" who is in heaven, how can they be one, while he is still on earth having a conversation with Mary?

These are questions that buzz around in my mind every time I hear that Jesus is God, which is every day.

 

[Gregory]

now I sound like a Muslim? how do a Muslim sound? ...... that's ok, don't answer.... YIKES!.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

Thank you for the welcome.

I do not know you, so I will just ask, do you reject scriptures that say that Jesus is the Son of God. If you do, then it does sound like Muslim talk, because they believe there is a real Jesus, but they reject that he is the Son of God. So what do you think?

 

[101G]

Thank you for the welcome.

I do not know you, so I will just ask, do you reject scriptures that say that Jesus is the Son of God. If you do, then it does sound like Muslim talk, because they believe there is a real Jesus, but they reject that he is the Son of God. So what do you think?

first thanks for the reply, second, I do not reject that the Lord Jesus is the Son of God, I been saying this all along. understand what I'm saying. Jesus is the "Diversity/Offspring", of his ownself as the EQUAL Share of the divine nature, of his ownself. supportive scripture, Isaiah 63:5 "And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me.".

HIS, God, own arm is him. see Isaiah chapter 53.

the Arm of God is he himself in Flesh, as said read Isaiah chapter 53 as to who the ARM of the LORD is.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[Gregory]

first thanks for the reply, second, I do not reject that the Lord Jesus is the Son of God, I been saying this all along. understand what I'm saying. Jesussupportive scripture, Isaiah 63:5 "And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me.".

HIS, God, own arm is him. see Isaiah chapter 53.

the Arm of God is he himself in Flesh, as said read Isaiah chapter 53 as to who the ARM of the LORD is.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

You are aware that we, mortals, who escape the corruption of this world of lust, can be partakers in the "divine nature" also:
2 Peter 1:4 King James Version (KJV)
4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

That is why we can be co-heirs with Jesus in all that the Father has, even His divine nature or His divinity.
Romans 8:17 King James Version (KJV)
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

I am not sure that Jesus is the "Diversity/Offspring", of his ownself as the EQUAL Share of the divine nature, of his ownself. I can see why there could be a debate about this. In the NT, Jesus often refers to someone greater than him. Someone he calls "my God", and
"my Father". And Jesus says that "my Father" is the same Person as "our Father":
John 20:17 King James Version (KJV)
17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

So your Isaiah scriptures do not seem to help us see that Jesus was the offspring of himself. It only show that he will do things himself. It is in fact only he is capable of doing the atonement and he alone will avenge the righteous. But I do not see it saying that he alone was his own father.

Give me some other scriptures that would make that much more plain to me. Thank you.

 

[101G]

So your Isaiah scriptures do not seem to help us see that Jesus was the offspring of himself. It only show that he will do things himself. It is in fact only he is capable of doing the atonement and he alone will avenge the righteous. But I do not see it saying that he alone was his own father.

Give me some other scriptures that would make that much more plain to me. Thank you.

thanks for the reply, sure, if you missed the Isaiah 63:5 , by understanding Isaiah 53, well then just read, Revelation 22:16 "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star."

here, he, the Lord Jesus, is before, Root/Father/Spirit, David, and after David, Offspring/Son/spirit, in position and order of time. Rev 22:16 states, "Offspring", which is the Greek word,
G1085 γένος genos (ǰe'-nos) n.
kin.
{abstract or concrete, literal or figurative, individual or collective}
[from G1096]
KJV: born, country(-man), diversity, generation, kind(-red), nation, offspring, stock
Root(s): G1096

see how the kjv can translate that word offspring.... diversity. which is clearly described in the Hebrew word, G243 allos, indicating "ANOTHER" of one's own self, (as in Isaiah 63:5, MY OWN ARM), listen, using the, Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words, G243, Allos expresses a numerical difference and denotes another of the same sort. the numerical difference is in the ordinal order. the Ordinal First, the ROOT, is the LORD, supportive scripture, Deuteronomy 6:4 "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:" and the term ONE here is the hebrew word,
H259 אֶחָד 'echad (ech-awd') adj.
1. (properly) united, i.e. one.
2. (as an ordinal) first.
[a numeral from H258]
KJV: a, alike, alone, altogether, and, any(-thing), apiece, a certain, (dai-)ly, each (one), + eleven, every, few, first, + highway, a man, once, one, only, other, some, together.
Root(s): H258

Definition #2, the ordinal First. ok, hold that, the ordinal First is the "LORD"/Father, the ROOT, and the Last in ordinal position is, the "Lord"/Son, the OFFSPRING, that which was to come. 1 Corinthians 15:45 "And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit."
here, the term Last is,
G2078 ἔσχατος eschatos (es'-cha-tos) adj.
farthest, final (of place or time).
[a superlative probably from G2192 (in the sense of contiguity)]
KJV: ends of, last, latter end, lowest, uttermost

see that, (of place or time). now watch the Last in plase and time, of the Son... John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." what do the word "beginning" indicate? answer,
G746 ἀρχή arche (ar-chee') n.
1. (properly abstract) a commencement.
2. (concretely) chief (in various applications of order, time, place, or rank).
[from G756]
KJV: beginning, corner, (at the, the) first (estate), magistrate, power, principality, principle, rule

Notice definition #2. (concretely), God is a Spirit, which is abstract, and the Lord Jesus is in flesh... (concretely), how? as definition #2 states, in order, time, place, or rank, and that order in time is LAST, scripture, 1 Peter 1:20 "Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you," so Christ was Manifested/Concrete, in flesh. ok, how, and who is he? answer, 1 Timothy 3:16 "And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory."

so the Concrete manifestation of God is in the one person JESUS the Christ. and to close the door on any three person, scripture, 1 Timothy 6:15 "Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;"1 Timothy 6:16 "Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen."

so if Jesus the Christ is the ONLY one with "IMMORTALITY", (which he do), that slams the door on any separate and distinct persons of any other two whom many call Father, or Holy Spirit, as, as, as, separates persons. for the term "ONLY", means, and no one or nothing more besides; solely or exclusively. well that eliminates any one else who might be in the Godhead. and the term "IMMORTALITY", means, the ability to live forever; eternal life. and if he's the ONLY one who have it, then no one else have it, meaning not any other persons in the Godhead, which only eliminates.

now assessing that information of SCRIPTURES for consumption, now one have to explain how JESUS, God is a plurality of one, when any other person(s) are eliminated? answer, just what G234, Allos/Another states, Allos expresses a numerical difference and denotes another of the same sort;
there is the plurality of God in ANOTHER, a Numerical Difference. and this Numerical Difference comes in the form of JESUS being the ordinal "First", and the Ordinal "Last", better known as the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End, the Alpha, and the Omega, and get this, the ROOT/First/Father, and the OFFSPRING/Last/Son. there is the numerical difference but G243 Allos/Another also say the "SAME SORT", or the same PERSON. and the only way God is an ANOTHER, or, the numerical difference of himself is in "SHARING" of his ownself in Flesh. again, Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:" being is current or at present. and the form of God is Spirit, but the Lord Jesus is concrete. and the root word of Form is
G3313 μέρος meros (me'-ros) n.
1. a portion

a potion?, God is A Spirit, and another word for potion is "SHARE". this is how the Lord Jesus is "EQUAL WITH" God. just as John 1:! states, the Word was God. why? because the word was, was, "WITH" God. meaning the SAME Sort, as G243 allos states, or the same person. lets prove it out.

now knowing this about "with", Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he." lets breakdown this scripture. "I" is how many persons? one, I the LORD, the first, the ordinal First according to Deuteronomy 6:4, the LORD, all caps is the First, and the First is "WITH" the Last... correct, and the Last is the Ordinal Last the Lord, the Son the LAST ADAM, per 1 Corinthians 15:45. so is the First/LORD/Father, a separate and distinct person from the Last/Lord/Son? for the Son was "with" the Father, let the bible speak the answer.

Isaiah 48:12 "Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last." BINGO, it's the same one person just as G243 allos/ANOTHER states, A. a numerical difference Father/First, and Son/Last. B. the same Sort/ the same one person, "I am he; I am the first, I also am the last." now the bible is clear as day, the First is the Last, the same one Person.

we suggest you copy and paste this for further examination. if you have any questions just ask.

conclusion, JESUS is the one and only person in the Godhead who is God, the Holy Spirit. and by sharing himself in flesh, (which he manifested in), he holds both titles, Father/Spirit, and Son/spirit, small case "s" in spirit, in flesh. that's it, and it's all done by EQUALLY SHARING HIMSELF in flesh. scripture study, Phil 2:6, and Isaiah 63:5.

that's the Godhead in a nutshell.


PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[kcnalp]

now I sound like a Muslim? how do a Muslim sound? ...... that's ok, don't answer.... YIKES!.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

You reject Jesus, the Son of God and "God the Father". Yeah, you sound like Muslim.

 

[WaterSong]

Why do you reject the Scriptures that say "Jesus is the Son of God" and "God the Father"? That sounds like Muslim.

I must have missed it or I'm just not that bright. Where in 101's remarks that you quoted prior to posting your remarks above did he reject those scriptures?

 

[kcnalp]

I do not reject that the Lord Jesus is the Son of God,

Then confess here and now that Jesus is the Son of God! And "God the Father"!

 

[kcnalp]

I must have missed it or I'm just not that bright. Where in 101's remarks that you quoted prior to posting your remarks above did he reject those scriptures?

You're right, you missed it. If you want to know then go back and read his posts.

 

[WaterSong]

The Trinity debate is over. Science and the Bible are (as usual) in agreement.

The Godhead has been Scientifically proven to exist beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Let's go over some of the basics, beginning with this verse...

Romans 1:20
"For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse"

There is an incredible amount of information packed in that verse. We will now break it down into easy to understand parts.

Invisible Things of Him
The 'Invisible Things of Him' is the Word of God that serves as the foundation of the Reality that we live in. It can be likened to Software Code running a Simulation, similar to the movie The Matrix...

Like a game of Sims, our Universe exists in this Code. How do we know? God has taught us this...

Hebrews 11:3
"Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear"

In stunning plainness of speech, God is teaching us that our entire Reality is made of things that are completely invisible to us.

In other words, there is a 'Framework' behind all that we see. That Framework is the Word of God...

To be continued...

I can't wait to read the peer reviewed data that sustains that claim. The Godhead has been Scientifically proven to exist beyond a shadow of a doubt.
While I await the link to that data just as an FYI to other readers per the Matrix movie vid links in the OP. That cyber-dystopian trans allegory Hollywood production does not qualify as true science.

 

[WaterSong]

You're right, you missed it. If you want to know then go back and read his posts.

Maybe he'll help out. I shouldn't have to resort to reviewing six pages to find anything of the kind when you made the claim against him while quoting his remarks wherein those claims are unsubstantiated in the content thereof.