The gods of amil.

[Spiritual Israelite]

Here's the bottom line. Scripture teaches that Christ's resurrection itself was the first resurrection (Acts 26:23, Col 1:18, 1 Cor 15:20-23, Rev 1:5). That should be the starting point when determining what having part in the first resurrection is about, but for some reason people use Revelation 20 as the starting point instead and end up contradicting other scripture as a result.

 

[Timtofly]

The first resurrection is spiritual, in which we are raised from death in sin

So there is never a physical resurrection ever for any soul?

Never heard of a second resurrection dealing with a physical body.

 

[Timtofly]

Here's the bottom line. Scripture teaches that Christ's resurrection itself was the first resurrection (Acts 26:23, Col 1:18, 1 Cor 15:20-23, Rev 1:5). That should be the starting point when determining what having part in the first resurrection is about, but for some reason people use Revelation 20 as the starting point instead and end up contradicting other scripture as a result.

Jesus needed a spiritual birth? Most people can see that the first resurrection is physical. Jesus did not need a spiritual birth. Most can understand that Paul was being figurative when saying we are raised up spiritually, not that he means a literal resurrection is spiritual. The first resurrection is still physical, both for Jesus and is the physical body, not the second birth which is a spiritual change and figurative of a resurrection out of sin.

All have already been resurrected physically who are in Christ. They are the firstfruits of that heavenly kingdom called Paradise. They will be gathered first from Paradise to meet us in the air.

 

[PinSeeker]

Nope.

You disagree. I have no problem with that. Okay, I'm going to reply, and certainly you can do with this what you want, but I would really encourage you to just thoughtfully and prayerfully consider it...

The one spoken of in Rev 20 is physical. It is speaking of dead Christians coming back to life...a resurrection. It is the first of two in the chapter which is why it's called "first".

Well, I agree that it is the first of two in Revelation 20...

Again: I say ~ and I am surely not alone in this ~ that the (first) resurrection spoken of by John in Revelation 20:4-6 corresponds intensely with that spoken of by Paul and Peter, and Jesus Himself in His conversation with Nicodemus in John 3... and the (second) resurrection spoken of as just prior to the events described in Revelation 20:12-15 is the physical resurrection upon Jesus's return at the close of this age, which corresponds intensely with the resurrection Jesus speaks of in John 5:28-29.

The people who are resurrected first in Rev 20 were already born again before they were murdered.

I agree with this...

The resurrection they are experiencing in Rev 20 is the physical resurrection so many prophets spoke about.

Hmmm, well... yes and no; the prophets spoke of the two resurrections at different times...

I'll just say this, at least for now, regarding the Revelation 20:4-6 (first) resurrection: This resurrection is not a one-time, general-in-scope event. In reading specifically verses 4 and 5 ~ "They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended" ~ I say that should be understood as happening over the course of the "thousand years"... This is how all we Christians share in the first resurrection. And in verse 6 ~ "they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with Him..." ~ this is a present reality even for you and me as Christians, in that, as Paul says in Ephesians 2, we have been "made alive together with Christ... and raised up with Him and seated with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus." And this will continue ~ on an individual basis ~ through ~ over the course of ~ the "thousand years," the millennium of Revelation 20.

You are confusing Rev 20's physical resurrection with being born again.

No, I'm absolutely not, but I can somewhat understand how you might think that... because presumably you're saying the first resurrection of Revelation 20:4-6 is the physical resurrection, with which I disagree. Again, the resurrection of Revelation 20:12-13 ~ implicitly it has just occurred in the reading of verses 12 and 13 ~ is the one-time, general-in-scope, physical resurrection, which, as I said, is the same resurrection Jesus is speaking of in John 5:28-29...

"Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment."

There are all sorts of different streams of thought concerning Revelation 20 out there.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[PinSeeker]

So there is never a physical resurrection ever for any soul?

Of course there is... well, at least for those who physically die before Jesus's return, for the ones not still alive at His return. For those who physically die before Christ returns, they will certainly be physically resurrected. Those who are still alive at the time of Christ's return will have no need of physical resurrection. But even of those, some will be subject to the second death.

Never heard of a second resurrection dealing with a physical body.

Hm. Interesting. Well, okay... :)

Oh! Well, here you seem to be thinking that I'm propagating that there are two physical resurrections, and if you are, that's not what I'm propagating at all. There are two (opposing) outcomes of the second resurrection, as Jesus says in John 5:28-29 and John says in Revelation 20:12-15 and Revelation 21:1-4.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Timtofly]

Of course there is... well, at least for those who physically die before Jesus's return, for the ones not still alive at His return. For those who physically die before Christ returns, they will certainly be physically resurrected. Those who are still alive at the time of Christ's return will have no need of physical resurrection. But even of those, some will be subject to the second death.


Hm. Interesting. Well, okay... :)

Oh! Well, here you seem to be thinking that I'm propagating that there are two physical resurrections, and if you are, that's not what I'm propagating at all. There are two (opposing) outcomes of the second resurrection, as Jesus says in John 5:28-29 and John says in Revelation 20:12-15 and Revelation 21:1-4.

Grace and peace to you.

No, I think you don't call the first resurrection, physical, thus in Scripture for the actual physical resurrection, we need the term "second resurrection".

Unless you stop calling the first resurrection spiritual, and then it works out just fine. The second birth is only a figurative resurrection, not a literal resurrection. The first resurrection is only physical, and has been an ongoing phenomenon since the Cross. Lazarus was literally and physically called out of his grave. All the OT redeemed at the Cross were literally called out of their graves. That is not some future physical manifestation. That first physical resurrection already happened for all currently in Paradise. The NT redeemed are literally called out of their graves physically at the moment this physical body dies.

That is what you try to say when you interpret Revelation 20. The problem is that is not what John wrote. That is what Paul wrote in almost evey letter he ever wrote. You are conflating a future event, the one John was a witness to with what Paul wrote.

Thus you change Revelation 20 to suit your own belief, instead of just going with what John did write. John was not contradicting Paul. John was affirming and taking the point a step further. John's first resurrection is not only a point at that time. It can be applied to all those in Christ. Just not that judgment, as that judgment only applied to those souls beheaded in the prior 42 months and not about the church at all. The first resurrection can be applied to the church, but not that event in Revelation 20:4.

 

[ewq1938]

I'll just say this, at least for now, regarding the Revelation 20:4-6 (first) resurrection: This resurrection is not a one-time, general-in-scope event. In reading specifically verses 4 and 5 ~ "They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended" ~ I say that should be understood as happening over the course of the "thousand years"...

Except the text says the resurrection happens BEFORE the thousand years begins. There is nothing there that suggests anything about an ongoing resurrection into and through the thousand years.

And in verse 6 ~ "they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with Him..." ~ this is a present reality even for you and me as Christians

Nope. That doesn't happen until the dead are raised, and the dead haven't raised yet. Rev 2 speaks more on this and affirms none of that happens until Christ has returned.

, in that, as Paul says in Ephesians 2, we have been "made alive together with Christ... and raised up with Him and seated with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus." And this will continue ~ on an individual basis ~ through ~ over the course of ~ the "thousand years," the millennium of Revelation 20.

No, that is something happening now, but is not what Rev 20 is speaking about. You are confusing being born again with the physical resurrection.

No, I'm absolutely not, but I can somewhat understand how you might think that... because presumably you're saying the first resurrection of Revelation 20:4-6 is the physical resurrection, with which I disagree.

Fine but beheaded people coming back to life at the timeframe of the second coming is the physical resurrection.

Again, the resurrection of Revelation 20:12-13 ~ implicitly it has just occurred in the reading of verses 12 and 13 ~ is the one-time, general-in-scope, physical resurrection, which, as I said, is the same resurrection Jesus is speaking of in John 5:28-29...

The second resurrection of Rev 20 is for only the unsaved.

"Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment."

There are all sorts of different streams of thought concerning Revelation 20 out there.

Sure but only one is correct.

 

[PinSeeker]

...I think you don't call the first resurrection, physical...

Well, right, because it's not. :) You think it is. Fine; we can agree to disagree.

...thus in Scripture for the actual physical resurrection, we need the term "second resurrection".

Well, the second is different in nature than the first (incidentally much like the second death is different in nature than the first). I understand well that you think not. Again, fine; we can agree to disagree. I'll just say this:

The second resurrection is a reversal of the first death, and general to all, but with two opposite outcomes (eternal life and judgment ~ John 5:28-29). Also, many never experience the first resurrection, and they are the only ones subject to and inevitably ~ at the final Judgment ~ consigned to the second death (Matthew 7:21-23, Matthew 25:41-45a).

Unless you stop calling the first resurrection spiritual, and then it works out just fine.

:) It is a "working out," that's for sure... :)

The second birth is only a figurative resurrection, not a literal resurrection.

Agreed. :) But a resurrection nonetheless. The first resurrection.

The first resurrection is only physical, and has been an ongoing phenomenon since the Cross.

I agree that the first resurrection has been "an ongoing phenomenon since the Cross" ~ individual, each at his/her appointed (by God) time ~ but do you somehow think there are physically resurrected people among us today, Timtofly? If so, that smacks of reincarnation, and I would reject that outright.

Lazarus was literally and physically called out of his grave.

Well, yes, and this is a picture of the second resurrection.

All the OT redeemed at the Cross were literally called out of their graves.

Hm, interesting. So how would you back this up with Scripture (if you do at all)?

That first physical resurrection already happened for all currently in Paradise.

Well, I agree with this statement except for... "physical." :) When they died, they gave up their spirits, just as Jesus did when He died on the cross (John 19:30), and were with Jesus the very day they died, just as the thief crucified with Jesus on His right, whom Jesus told that would be the case (Luke 23:43).

The NT redeemed are literally called out of their graves physically at the moment this physical body dies.

Again, interesting. At the very least, Timtofly, for your statement here to be true, these folks would have had to have been in their graves before their physical body died ~ buried alive? ~ which is... well, that's quite astounding that you would say that. Surely that's not what you mean...

...you change Revelation 20 to suit your own belief, instead of just going with what John did write.

This would be my opinion regarding you, Timtofly. What's interesting is that I've used Scripture ~ all of Scripture ~ explicitly to back up what I've been saying, while you, in any exchange you've had with me, other than just referencing Revelation 20 in reference to itself, have not. I'm sure you think you can, so, let's hear it.

John was not contradicting Paul.

Wholeheartedly agreed.

John was affirming and taking the point a step further.

As I said earlier, John's perspective was very different than Paul's or Peter's. We can see that in Revelation 4:1-2, where John says, "After this I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven! And the first voice, which I had heard speaking to me like a trumpet, said, 'Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after this.' At once I was in the Spirit..."

John's first resurrection is not only a point at that time. It can be applied to all those in Christ.

Agreed. Individually speaking, all of those in Christ experience the first resurrection at their appointed (by God) time... at some point in the course of their life here on earth.

Just not that judgment, as that judgment only applied to those souls beheaded in the prior 42 months and not about the church at all. The first resurrection can be applied to the church, but not that event in Revelation 20:4.

Hmmm, well, "the souls of those who had been beheaded" in Revelation 20:4 refers to those who have suffered martyrdom. These are now disembodied spirits living in the presence of God and of Christ, as represented in Revelation 6:9-10, where John says, "When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne. They cried out with a loud voice, 'O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before You will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?'" Martyrs are singled out as the most notable group of faithful witnesses. But other saints are not excluded from the privileges mentioned.

You're an interesting fellow, Timtofly. Grace and peace to you.

 

[PinSeeker]

...the text says the resurrection happens BEFORE the thousand years begins.

I disagree. Maybe you can tell me why you think that. I have my suspicions, but I'll let you answer that.

There is nothing there that suggests anything about an ongoing resurrection into and through the thousand years.

Well, it's a one-time occurrence for individuals; do you not understand me to be saying that? If you do, then great, and I redirect you again to what I asked you immediately above ~ to tell me why you think the text says the resurrection happens BEFORE the thousand years begins.

Nope. That doesn't happen until the dead are raised, and the dead haven't raised yet.

Not physically, no... :) All human beings are dead in their sin from birth. Individually, we must be given new life in the Spirit ~ born again ~ by the Spirit to have this new life, and that requires a "raising" ~ a resurrection ~ from death to life... which is In what is described in Revelation 20:4-6 ~ the first resurrection. And yes, the second resurrection has not yet occurred.

Rev 2 speaks more on this and affirms none of that happens until Christ has returned.

You are confusing being born again with the physical resurrection.

No, I'm not. See directly above.

beheaded people coming back to life at the timeframe of the second coming is the physical resurrection.

Yes. I've never said or insinuated otherwise...

The second resurrection of Rev 20 is for only the unsaved.

Disagree. Why do you think that, EWQ? The text does say, after all, in Revelation 20:12-13, specifically, that he "saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened... (a)nd the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done." Jesus Himself, as you must know, said "the Son of Man is going to come with His angels in the glory of His Father, and then He will repay each person according to what he has done," and Paul said of "the day of wrath when God’s righteous judgment will be revealed" that "He will render to each one according to his works: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; but for those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury..." (Romans 2:5-8). So, all these references are to the same group of people, but Paul is especially explicit in Romans 2 that the saved and unsaved alike ~ "each one" ~ are included in this final Judgment according to what they have done. Again, I point out what Jesus said in John 5:28-29, that "Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice 29 and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment."

Sure but only one is correct.

Oh, yes, I agree with this... :)

Grace and peace to you, EWQ.

 

[Timtofly]

I agree that the first resurrection has been "an ongoing phenomenon since the Cross" ~ individual, each at his/her appointed (by God) time ~ but do you somehow think there are physically resurrected people among us today, Timtofly? If so, that smacks of reincarnation, and I would reject that outright.

That is not even close to what I posted. They are physically seated in heavenly places, serving God day and night in His heavenly temple, and physically enjoying Paradise. Seated in heavenly places is literal, not spiritual nor figurative as you apply a spiritual symbolism to the first resurrection which is physical, not spiritual at all.

The second birth is spiritual and not physical, thus a spiritual resurrection is after a spiritual death, after a spiritual birth. In general, Adam's offspring is under such a condition. But you have to be born spiritually first, to even die and be resurrected spiritually.

Adam was the individual who died physically and spiritually when he disobeyed God. His new condition was passed on to Seth and all offspring after Seth.

"In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him; And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth:"

We are not in God's image physically nor spiritually. We are in Adam's image. That is why there is a second birth out of Adam's dead image. The second birth places us back into God's family in Christ. But we are still spiritually and physically "the dead". We have the Holy Spirit who quickens us to a place of a relationship in Christ. That is not the first resurrection.

The first resurrection is only when we have the restored image of God as a son of God. The permanent incorruptible physical body per 2 Corinthians 5:1. As a soul in Adam's dead corruptible flesh we are still the dead walking around on physical earth, but spiritually in God's family if submitted to the Holy Spirit.

 

[ewq1938]

I disagree. Maybe you can tell me why you think that. I have my suspicions, but I'll let you answer that.

Just see the text:

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.


They lived after having been beheaded. That is always a resurrection.

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived (zao) and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

This is a resurrection from the dead.


Rev 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive (zao) for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.


Christ used the same exact word (zao) regarding the result of his own physical resurrection. Did Christ not live again physically and in immortality after being dead?

Not physically, no... :) All human beings are dead in their sin from birth. Individually, we must be given new life in the Spirit ~ born again ~ by the Spirit to have this new life, and that requires a "raising" ~ a resurrection ~ from death to life... which is In what is described in Revelation 20:4-6 ~ the first resurrection. And yes, the second resurrection has not yet occurred.

Rev 20 is speaking of a physical resurrection. Those people had already been born again before they were beheaded proving the being alive and being saved, then being killed, only leaves a physical resurrection next.

Disagree. Why do you think that, EWQ? The text does say, after all, in Revelation 20:12-13, specifically, that he "saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened... (a)nd the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done."

Yes, all tyupes of people but the saved dead were already judged before this leaving only the unsaved dead left. All passages speaking fo the resurrections of the saved and unsaved, all of them, say the saved resurrect first which means the last resurrection has no saved souls in it.

Just look at the passage you posted:

Again, I point out what Jesus said in John 5:28-29, that "Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice 29 and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment."

There is not one saved soul resurrecting in that last resurrection yet you are trying to make that so in the last resurrection of Rev 20. The saved and unsaved are not part of the same resurrection. "the rest of the dead" are the only ones in the last resurrection, the resurrection of judgment. The other dead, not part of "the rest of the dead", resurrected first and not with those unworthy of the first resurrection group.

 

[Timtofly]

Hm, interesting. So how would you back this up with Scripture (if you do at all)?

Jesus said that soon, no one would taste death. John 8:58

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death. Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death."

Then in Matthew 27:50-53 we see that when Jesus declared it is finished, the OT redeemed did come out of their graves.


"Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost. And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent; And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many."

The veil of the temple torn pointing to the fact that after that point, those in Christ would never taste death again. When the soul leaves Adam's dead corruptible flesh, that is leaving death, for eternal life. That is the first resurrection. That is the point of redemption being complete. The soul is blessed, and will never face the GWT judgment nor the second death in the LOF.

 

[PinSeeker]

That is not even close to what I posted.

Then maybe you should make an effort to be more clear in what you do post.

They are physically seated in heavenly places, serving God day and night in His heavenly temple, and physically enjoying Paradise. Seated in heavenly places is literal, not spiritual nor figurative as you apply a spiritual symbolism to the first resurrection which is physical, not spiritual at all.

And I clearly disagree, based on other passages of Scripture. God is His own arbiter. But John's Revelation is apocalyptic in genre; it cannot be read like a Dick and Jane first grade primer. Anyone can be blessed by reading, hearing, and keeping it, as John himself writes in Revelation 1:3, but... I would just encourage you to keep reading it, but not at the exclusion, unintentional as it may be, of the rest of the Counsel of God.

Adam was the individual who died physically and spiritually when he disobeyed God.

Only spiritually, Timtofly. Physically, he was still alive. God said to Adam, in Genesis 2:17, that he would "surely die... in the day that (he) ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil," and he (and Eve) did, as documented in Genesis 3. Yes, physically, they were still alive, but they had indeed died spiritually. I agree with you that this is the condition from birth of all who have come after ~ except Jesus, of course, as He was and is God made man. So yes, naturally (first comes the natural, as Paul says in 1 Corinthians 15) dead spiritually ~ but not physically ~ slaves to unrighteousness, as Paul says in Romans 5, children whose father is the devil, as Jesus says in John 8 of the Jews to whom He was speaking there. From birth we are in need of spiritual redemption and resurrection, which is a raising from death to life, and this is exactly what Moses and the prophets and the apostles speak of regarding the first resurrection.

We are not in God's image physically nor spiritually. We are in Adam's image. That is why there is a second birth out of Adam's dead image. The second birth places us back into God's family in Christ. But we are still spiritually and physically "the dead".

Hmmm, a mixed bag of good and bad here...

We have the Holy Spirit who quickens us to a place of a relationship in Christ. That is not the first resurrection.

Okay, well, on this we disagree.

The first resurrection is only when we have the restored image of God as a son of God.

Disagree, of course. I would say that the first resurrection is when, yes, from that point on, we are sons of God rather than sons of the devil, but it is when God begins to restore His image in us, when He begins to conform us to Christ. And He will bring that good work to completion at the day of Christ (Philippians 1:6), which irrefutably says that the work in us is not instantaneous. We are justified, and Christ's righteousness is imputed to us ~ this is instantaneous ~ but God's work in us is ongoing in this life from that point.

Okay, I think that's quite enough.

Grace and peace to you, Timtofly.

 

[PinSeeker]

Just see the text:

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.


They lived after having been beheaded. That is always a resurrection.

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived (zao) and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

See, this was my point, EWQ ~ you seem to be reading Revelation 20 at the exclusion of any other passage of Scripture. And in addition to that, you will certainly disagree and possibly take offense to this, but you're not understanding it correctly because you're applying a context to it that is different from what it is. Remember, John says, in Revelation 4, quoting Jesus in his vision, "Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after this." So John is sort of ~ not really, but in a manner of speaking ~ transported in time to a time after Jesus's return to earth... "after this," which is to say after the current age. So John is "seeing" it as if it's already done and in the past.

And, directly to the bolded text in your quote ("and they lived"), to say someone "lived" can also, depending on the context, be correctly understood ~ and should be here in Revelation 20 ~ as "came to life." When that is understood, then this can be easily understood as a progressive reality for more and more individuals over the course of the thousand years.

This is a resurrection from the dead.

Just on it's face, I agree with this statement. But the nature of the resurrection of Revelation 20:4-6 is what we're talking about (and disagreeing upon).

Did Christ not live again physically and in immortality after being dead?

Sure, but to think we will immediately be resurrected physically the second we die is ~ sorry; no offense intended here ~ ridiculous. That physical, bodily resurrection will come at the end of the age, as described in Matthew 7:21-23 (unbelievers), Matthew 25:31-46 (believers and unbelievers), John 5:28-29, and Revelation 20:11-15. Jesus's resurrection is certainly a picture of what our physical resurrection will look like, as was Lazerus's), much like we have pictures (types and shadows of different kinds) of Christ throughout the Old Testament (Jesus said on several occasions that Moses and the prophets wrote of Him, as you know). How you get the idea that we will be immediately physically resurrected upon our physical death is quite unfathomable, but so be it,

Rev 20 is speaking of a physical resurrection.

Verses 11-15, yes. Verses 4-6 not so much, no.

Those people had already been born again before they were beheaded proving the being alive and being saved, then being killed, only leaves a physical resurrection next.

LOL! Okay, sure, I agree, but they are not physically resurrected yet; that will happen at the close of this age upon Jesus's return, which, as I have said, is what is described in Revelation 11-13.

All passages speaking fo the resurrections of the saved and unsaved, all of them, say the saved resurrect first which means the last resurrection has no saved souls in it.

Ah! Well, I agree that the saved are judged first and then the unsaved ~ yes, Matthew 25:31-46, John 5:28-29, and Revelation 20:11-14 are very clear on this, but this is one general event at the end of the age. A college basketball game has two halves, the first half and then the second half, but it is still one college basketball game... :)

The saved and unsaved are not part of the same resurrection.

Yes, they are, EWQ. The outcome ~ what some are resurrected to as opposed to what others are resurrected to... the result of the Judgment ~ for the saved is very different than the outcome for the unsaved, but it is one general event, the resurrection and Judgment.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Just see the text:

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.


They lived after having been beheaded. That is always a resurrection.

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived (zao) and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

This is a resurrection from the dead.


Rev 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive (zao) for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.


Christ used the same exact word (zao) regarding the result of his own physical resurrection. Did Christ not live again physically and in immortality after being dead?

You are being deceptive here. That word (zao) is not a word that is used to specifically refer to a resurrection. Look at how it is used elsewhere in scripture. It's always used to described someone being alive or living their life. That word was not being used in Revelation 1:18 to describe His resurrection itself, it was used to indicate that He is now alive even though He had previously died.

If John was going to use a word to refer to a resurrection itself, he would have used the Greek word anazao instead, like he did in Revelation 20:5.

Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again (anazao) until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Rev 20 is speaking of a physical resurrection. Those people had already been born again before they were beheaded proving the being alive and being saved, then being killed, only leaves a physical resurrection next.

They had already spiritually had part in Christ's resurrection, which is the first resurrection.

The first resurrection:

Acts 26:23 That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.

Having part in the first resurrection:

Colossians 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: 12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

What I'm doing here is known as interpreting scripture with scripture. That is a concept that you should learn.

 

[Truth7t7]

You are being deceptive here. That word (zao) is not a word that is used to specifically refer to a resurrection. Look at how it is used elsewhere in scripture. It's always used to described someone being alive or living their life. That word was not being used in Revelation 1:18 to describe His resurrection itself, it was used to indicate that He is now alive even though He had previously died.

If John was going to use a word to refer to a resurrection itself, he would have used the Greek word anazao instead, like he did in Revelation 20:5.

Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again (anazao) until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.



They had already spiritually had part in Christ's resurrection, which is the first resurrection.

The first resurrection:

Acts 26:23 That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.

Having part in the first resurrection:

Colossians 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: 12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

What I'm doing here is known as interpreting scripture with scripture. That is a concept that you should learn.

You interpretation of Revelation 20 (First Resurrection) is a farce, suggesting taking part in the resurrection of Jesus Christ is fulfillment "False"

There are (Two Resurrection) on the last day, the believer is blessed to be in the future (First Resurrection) to eternal life, at the second coming when the 1,000 years are finished

(The Dead In Christ Rise First) this is the (First Resurrection)

The (First Resurrection) takes place at (The End) when the thousand years are finished

Revelation 20:5-6KJV
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

1 Thessalonians 4:16KJV
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

See, this was my point, EWQ ~ you seem to be reading Revelation 20 at the exclusion of any other passage of Scripture.

That is what Premils typically do. Why, I don't know. It's a terrible approach to interpreting scripture. The foundation of our doctrine should be based on literal, straightforward scripture and our understanding of highly symbolic scripture like the book of Revelation should be in light of what other scripture teaches.

 

[Truth7t7]

You interpretation of Revelation 20 (First Resurrection) is a farce, suggesting taking part in the resurrection of Jesus Christ is fulfillment "False"

There are (Two Resurrection) on the last day, the believer is blessed to be in the future (First Resurrection) to eternal life

(The Dead In Christ Rise First) this is the (First Resurrection)

The (First Resurrection) takes place at (The End) when the thousand years are finished

Revelation 20:5-6KJV
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

1 Thessalonians 4:16KJV
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You interpretation of Revelation 20 (First Resurrection) is a farce, suggesting taking part in the resurrection of Jesus Christ is fulfillment "False"

LOL. You speak like a child.

There are (Two Resurrection) on the last day, the believer is blessed to be in the future (First Resurrection) to eternal life

(The Dead In Christ Rise First) this is the (First Resurrection)

The (First Resurrection) takes place at (The End) when the thousand years are finished

Revelation 20:5-6KJV
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

1 Thessalonians 4:16KJV
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Blah blah blah. You say things as if they make sense, but you make no sense at all.

And, you take things out of context like you do with 1 Thess 4:16. Paul was not giving the order of resurrections there, he was giving the order of events in relation to believers that will happen after Christ descends from heaven. First, the dead in Christ will be resurrected. Then, they, along with those who are alive and remain, will be caught up together to meet the Lord in the air.

To act as if Paul was talking about the order of resurrections there shows your willingness to twist scripture to make it say whatever you want it to say.

 

[Truth7t7]

LOL. You speak like a child.


Blah blah blah. You say things as if they make sense, but you make no sense at all.

And, you take things out of context like you do with 1 Thess 4:16. Paul was not giving the order of resurrections there, he was giving the order of events in relation to believers that will happen after Christ descends from heaven. First, the dead in Christ will be resurrected. Then, they, along with those who are alive and remain, will be caught up together to meet the Lord in the air.

To act as if Paul was talking about the order of resurrections there shows your willingness to twist scripture to make it say whatever you want it to say.

The (First Resurrection) takes place at (The End) when the thousand years are finished "Future", read it again and again

You claim (First Resurrection) pertains to the resurrection of Jesus Christ, this would be the beginning of the 1,000 years, your 100% "Wrong" in your teaching

Sad part is, you will continue to teach this error, even after you have been clearly shown biblical truth before your eyes

Revelation 20:5-6KJV
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.