The religious "whack" as you say comes to reduce the standard of God by making carnal men to be already arrived...they eliminate the race of faith and destroy the narrow way.
The Gospel of Grace:
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The religious "whack" as you say comes to reduce the standard of God by making carnal men to be already arrived...they eliminate the race of faith and destroy the narrow way.
what i notice in many is at times when they feel they have done all there religious requirments and not messed up for a few days? and have repented according to there own since of what God requires? they allow there conscience to be clean long enough to have a few mins in prayer of worship? and think thats real relationship with God? they have no power, no victory, and excuse it away as if God is not always good! blown about by every wind of doctrine, always learning and never able to come to the understanding that God MADE YOU RIGHTEOUS BECAUSE HE SAID IT IS RIGHT! many have faith to leave egypt, but not to enter into HIS REST! into His promises? so FEAR that!
the standard is Christ alone! and faith in Him is the standard for us weak men. for we never could nor can we ever keep the law! but we have entered into His royal law! love as i love! for all the law is kept by His love for us and us loving with His love! the simplicity of Christ!
if i love as He has loved me? i will not break any commandment! i will not covet what you have but desire you be bless with more ! i will not steal ones wife or take advantage of a young lady if i love as He loves me! thus the righteous requirement of the law is fulfilled by the law written on my heart! the love of God shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Spirit! thats the law HE puts in our hearts!
i will try you one more time? for sake of others God is trying to reach.
the standard is Christ alone! and faith in Him is the standard for us weak men. for we never could nor can we ever keep the law! but we have entered into His royal law! love as i love! for all the law is kept by His love for us and us loving with His love! the simplicity of Christ!
if i love as He has loved me? i will not break any commandment! i will not covet what you have but desire you be bless with more ! i will not steal ones wife or take advantage of a young lady if i love as He loves me! thus the righteous requirement of the law is fulfilled by the law written on my heart! the love of God shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Spirit! thats the law HE puts in our hearts!
but again i would tell you that even if you get a good blast of Gods love and Spirit? as long as you attempt to look to the law to justify your relationship with God? you can not have a real walk with Him! you may get on this forum and talk all you want about Him. but you draw near with your mouth but your heart is far away! for those who have been forgiven much, love much!
when paul wrote that nothing could seperate us from His Love? he was speaking in context to the FACT we were MADE RIGHTEOUS and it was righteous act by God. and we should see it as a Righteous thing to be made and remain righteous. especially when we mess up we run to His Grace to overcome our weaknesses! not away! and we stay in His love and confident! MY REDEEMER LIVES AND HE WILL HELP MY WEAKNESS! HE WILL OVERCOME! ITS NOT ABOUT ME ANYMORE! I HAVE A LIVING GOD!!!!!!
for when i am weak? then i am strong! and His strength is made perfect in our weakness. for in those places we learn that He is our strength! a great man of God once said that he seemed above other men to have a great weakness for sinful desires, but when he learn this great truth He through his dependece and need became more godly than all. george muller
this is the gospel of Grace! a real sin-overcoming gospel that is full of life and an endless ,unbroken relationship with the most kind and good and loving being ever! that i might know more of HIM
when paul wrote that nothing could seperate us from His Love? he was speaking in context to the FACT we were MADE RIGHTEOUS and it was righteous act by God. and we should see it as a Righteous thing to be made and remain righteous. especially when we mess up we run to His Grace to overcome our weaknesses! not away! and we stay in His love and confident! MY REDEEMER LIVES AND HE WILL HELP MY WEAKNESS! HE WILL OVERCOME! ITS NOT ABOUT ME ANYMORE! I HAVE A LIVING GOD!!!!!!
for when i am weak? then i am strong! and His strength is made perfect in our weakness. for in those places we learn that He is our strength! a great man of God once said that he seemed above other men to have a great weakness for sinful desires, but when he learn this great truth He through his dependece and need became more godly than all. george muller
i have read a few more post, and still i am confused by the ever defining of sin and repentance and what is sin and what is not sin? and it is clear to me that many are in a place of searching for answers in regards to how the Lord deals and sees our weaknesses or sins? i would say for myself that sin is not an issue as it once was. not that i have reached a point of perfection in action or heart but because i know He has overcome by grace. and for the most part my conscience is perfect before him. and because i know the power of the ministery of righteousness i know all can be set free through the gospel. as for the phonys and fake christians and those who would use grace as a SIN FOR FREE card? if i feel led as maybe you have seen here? i will confront that lie! but my biggest battle, in my area , are the legalist! not the easy believers? actually if you preach the gospel Paul preached those charges are often made by those who dont understand! Nothing easy about the real gospel in regards to the battle with hypocrites and the devil. for it is the power of God for us and the enemy hates this truth! as for the intention of some on this post i will look again and consider there own post ? for i have been quite harsh with some? if i see i am at fault or error i will be quick to repent! would like to hear in clear terms what some consider REAL sin for a believer? for it seems clear to me that much that is called sin is just legalism! and law cloaked in NT speech! even in our grace churches we still have folks trying to justify themselves in food and wear etc..
Hi Epi,
Unfortunately your gospel is all about physical proof of perfect obedience to the law. You have claimed that failure to live a perfect lifestyle of obedience to the law means such persons are not abiding in Christ, having failed God's grace and thus facing condemnation. And with this false gospel you seek to undermine the faith of Christ of others on forums.
BTW, 'There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.' Rom 8:1
Walking according to the flesh is your gospel as you judge righteousness by works of the law. This is seeking to establish righteousness by works of the law. You yourself have admitted that your gospel makes Christ harder to attain and brings condemnation to those who fail to attain a perfect lifestyle in this physical life.
Your argument that grace is seen by many here as somehow a licence to do wrong, is merely your own construction. None here argue for a selfish, un-loving lifestyle. We love one another as God commanded us.
And God is working in each Christian's life to build them up from whatever stage they are at in their walk.
I can only assume your argument against those here under grace is merely an attempt to deceive another into works of the law.
And scripture warns us such people would try to deceive believers.
Great reply!!!
Walking according to the flesh is the gospel of righteousness by works of the law and is seeking to establish righteousness by works of the law. They refuse to hear Romans 8:1 'There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.'
Walking in the flesh is trying to justify self, before God, by the works of law keeping. -- Walking in the Spirit is walking with faith in Jesus and His shed blood on the cross which is the only thing that reconciles us to God.
Hi haz,
If your worship of God in Spirit and truth does not involve your whole body and being in alterations to your physical lifestyle, how do you know you are saved?
If your worship of God in Spirit and truth does not involve your whole body and being in alterations to your physical lifestyle, how do you know you are saved?
The question was; If your worship of God in Spirit and truth does not involve your whole body and being in alterations to your physical lifestyle, how do you know you are saved?
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It's called faith, faith in the promises of God, believing that Jesus' (God's) work on the cross reconciles a person to God.
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If a person thinks that being good and trying not to sin is the sign of a Christian then how do they explain that there are many that are good and try to keep the laws of society but that does not make them a Christian.
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When someone tells you that they are placing ALL their belief, faith, trust, and confidence in the work of Jesus on the cross then I know they are a Christian.
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If a person says they do all of the above BUT ALSO believe they are saved by what they do after becoming a Christian then they are not saved simple because their trust is in themselves and not God.
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It's called faith, faith in the promises of God, believing that Jesus' (God's) work on the cross reconciles a person to God.
*
If a person thinks that being good and trying not to sin is the sign of a Christian then how do they explain that there are many that are good and try to keep the laws of society but that does not make them a Christian.
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When someone tells you that they are placing ALL their belief, faith, trust, and confidence in the work of Jesus on the cross then I know they are a Christian.
*
If a person says they do all of the above BUT ALSO believe they are saved by what they do after becoming a Christian then they are not saved simple because their trust is in themselves and not God.
You are missing what I am saying and what the bible is saying because you are limiting your oprions to your own understanding and your own abiblity. You say..".I can't do this"... so you write it off. But all the ways of God require a miraculous faculty called grace to perform them. I am against TRYING to be holy...you can never be. (You twist what I say to fit one of your carnal positions.) But the provision of Christ is in a new creation already created in holiness. Notice...
Eph_4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
This is what you are resisting. The new man is already in the presence of God. We already have the purity of God if we are in the new man. What we need to run the race for is for maturity IN that new life.
All those verses that men write off so easily or claim without any understanding...like...I am seated with Christ...or It is Christ living in me....etc.. are used as a smokescreen to defend a life lived as any other man. Don't try reading the bible in your own understanding...look at what is being said then seek the Lord.
This idea that once you begin you have already arrived stops you and many others seeing the progressive nature of the salvation of God. Going from faith to faith and glory to glory.
Why does Paul exhort people that are already believers to put on the new man???? Why does Paul exhort the Roman believers to walk in the Spirit??? If these were a natural acquisition that never could be altered than why the need for the thousands of exhortations in the bible?
So your position stops you from getting what you think you already have. Do you see the genius of the enemy yet???
it is takes a few days , and i am a bit slow! and i wondered yesterday if this whole topic was on this forum so legalist could beat up on Grace?
i am beginning to see who are the enemys of the cross and who have been humbled by its message! i do see now there are some who know and trust in His Grace! and while i am here, i will be defending the faith that was first delivered unto us? GRACE!
It doesn't say....There is no condemnation for those who SAY they are in Jesus
Many will SAY on that day...LOrd LOrd...
A person who is not walking like Jesus IS walking according to the flesh. Those who claim to walking in weakness and in sin AND not be under the law of God.... will be rejected by the Lord.
Paul claimed to be fulfilling the law of God by walking in the law of Christ. You are claiming to be walking in the law of Christ without any other law being met but your own opinion.
Jesus tried explaining that faith actually does something....like move mountains...heal the sick..connect us to the actual presence of God..etc..
What you are espousing is called conditioned belief...not faith. Terrorists believe that they will receive 70 virgins by doing what they have been programmed to believe. People can be hypnotized and brainwashed. These techniques are according to men. Anybody can believe anything...look at the JW's and the Mormons. Each point the finger at the other but they have all arrived at their conclusions the same way...human understanding.
What we are seeing in most of modern Christianity is this same religious conditioning based on a belief that has no godly fruit and no stamp of eternity on it. In short...no reality.
Paul preached according to power...but his supposed followers point to his words that the other apostles state that many twist to their own destruction.
2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
Of course the pride of men stops them from even considering that they could be unstable and unlearned.
by the way you dont teach perfection! you teach the way into pefection! and to bring again the Law into view as the standard is foolish! Christ is the Standard and the focus! and ONLY in SEEING HIM! can one be changed! this aurgument of not being under law but yet keeping it as the standard? Has just about run its weak little legs off! better find somethig new!
one other very important point! those of us who have been truly washed by the word! we do not focus upon the sin issue for our conscience is clean and pure! We having a perfect conscience !
knowing this belongs to all who believe. to focus on sin in self and others proves that you have not heard the message! to be in a state of striving for perfection? proves you have NOT heard of His Finished work!
TRUE CHRISTIAN GROWTH, IS RECEIVED NOT ACHIEVED! for those who RECEIVE the abundundance of grace and the GIFT of righteous will reign in life through the One ,Jesus Christ!
and we have become partakers of the Divine Nature through the great and precious PROMISES!
but some of you should be asking questions and stop trying teach! for you are not established in any truth and we have nothing to build upon?
watch! you guys will be blown about by every topic! you dont believe nothing but in your own opinions! double minded waves! one min you speak of grace and out of the other side of your mind and mouth you speak law!
one other very important point! those of us who have been truly washed by the word! we do not focus upon the sin issue for our conscience is clean and pure! We having a perfect conscience !
knowing this belongs to all who believe. to focus on sin in self and others proves that you have not heard the message! to be in a state of striving for perfection? proves you have NOT heard of His Finished work!
TRUE CHRISTIAN GROWTH, IS RECEIVED NOT ACHIEVED! for those who RECEIVE the abundundance of grace and the GIFT of righteous will reign in life through the One ,Jesus Christ!
and we have become partakers of the Divine Nature through the great and precious PROMISES!
but some of you should be asking questions and stop trying teach! for you are not established in any truth and we have nothing to build upon?
watch! you guys will be blown about by every topic! you dont believe nothing but in your own opinions! double minded waves! one min you speak of grace and out of the other side of your mind and mouth you speak law!
Prentis
New Member
The truth is that by grace we fulfill the law of God... To pit grace against the law of God is to misunderstand the nature and purpose of these two. In doing this, men try to abolish the law by grace (or their own understanding of grace), where grace is meant as the means of fulfilling the law. The truth is 180 degrees away from the doctrines men have made in the Laodicean church.
God is not looking to excuse us from his perfect law, but by his Spirit to empower us to do what we could not in our own strength. The new covenant is the fulfillment of the Old, not an opposition there to destroy. Do we abolish the law by faith? Not at all, rather we establish it.
God is not looking to excuse us from his perfect law, but by his Spirit to empower us to do what we could not in our own strength. The new covenant is the fulfillment of the Old, not an opposition there to destroy. Do we abolish the law by faith? Not at all, rather we establish it.
again my friend! you seem to think at we who pearch grace are to ones who abolishes the law?
Heb 7:18
For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.
Heb 7:19
For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.
2Co 3:13
And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
2Co 3:14
But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
2Co 3:15
But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
Eph 2:15
Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances
you see its God who decides! what are His requirements!
you guys should go back to the cross! for i think you have missed what was being said their?
when Paul said 'we establish the law' he was clearly making reference to what he had just stated!
Rom 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
i will know the law has been establised in you guys when you stop pretending you can keep it!
if i was as ignorant as you guys are of the scriptures? i would shut up! and listen to some who have been made wise by His Cross!
So if I claim (say) my faith is in Jesus' work on the cross that is not really faith in Jesus' work on the cross.
But you can say you are walking in the Spirit by not sinning and that makes it true, right? ----- Rubbish!
Prentis
New Member
brother dave,
You confuse the law of God and the mosaic law.
Heb 7:16 (Christ) Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.
What changes in the New Covenant is the means to fulfill the same law. Now we can by grace truly fulfill the law, yet not us, but Christ in us.
The carnal commandment is the form under which the old covenant was under. Robes of linen and gold do not make one holy. But true holiness does indeed exist, in the person of Christ Jesus. It is not an imaginary life that is given us, and Christianity is not blind men claiming to see, but men truly given sight and robes by God himself.
Instead men have followed after their own lusts and chosen to claim robes of righteousness for themselves all the while still living by the flesh! Men have twisted the word to their own destruction, so that they might on the one hand claim to be holy and righteous, pleasing to God, and yet live like the rest of the world.
The new man is made in true holiness... If we walk in Christ, we are as He is, by his power.
But men prefer to go after their own imaginations, which allows them to remain carnal all the while claiming Christ, rather than truly seeking God that he might conform them to his Son.
You are too blind to see past anything a person claims... You are already in a position of unbelief and thus can only take what men say as claims, but can accept nothing out of your own experience as being a reality. Your unbelief and lack of childlikeness makes it impossible for you to believe there is any experience beyond your own.... Thus anything beyond this is already written of as imaginations, which is ironic since your own christianity is based on imaginations; things that have no bearing in your time on this earth.
You will always resist the truth because you have already decided it is impossible, comparing all things to yourself. This is pride, but you are blind to this also.
And so as long as you cling to this pride you will not see, for God gives grace to the humble. We can only see when we humble ourselves and seek God on the matter that is before us. How many are willing to do this when presented with an experience that is deeper than their own?
You confuse the law of God and the mosaic law.
Heb 7:16 (Christ) Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.
What changes in the New Covenant is the means to fulfill the same law. Now we can by grace truly fulfill the law, yet not us, but Christ in us.
The carnal commandment is the form under which the old covenant was under. Robes of linen and gold do not make one holy. But true holiness does indeed exist, in the person of Christ Jesus. It is not an imaginary life that is given us, and Christianity is not blind men claiming to see, but men truly given sight and robes by God himself.
Instead men have followed after their own lusts and chosen to claim robes of righteousness for themselves all the while still living by the flesh! Men have twisted the word to their own destruction, so that they might on the one hand claim to be holy and righteous, pleasing to God, and yet live like the rest of the world.
The new man is made in true holiness... If we walk in Christ, we are as He is, by his power.
But men prefer to go after their own imaginations, which allows them to remain carnal all the while claiming Christ, rather than truly seeking God that he might conform them to his Son.
You are too blind to see past anything a person claims... You are already in a position of unbelief and thus can only take what men say as claims, but can accept nothing out of your own experience as being a reality. Your unbelief and lack of childlikeness makes it impossible for you to believe there is any experience beyond your own.... Thus anything beyond this is already written of as imaginations, which is ironic since your own christianity is based on imaginations; things that have no bearing in your time on this earth.
You will always resist the truth because you have already decided it is impossible, comparing all things to yourself. This is pride, but you are blind to this also.
And so as long as you cling to this pride you will not see, for God gives grace to the humble. We can only see when we humble ourselves and seek God on the matter that is before us. How many are willing to do this when presented with an experience that is deeper than their own?
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