The great falling away?

[friend of]

In a 2020 survey by the Pew Research Center, 65% of adults in the United States identified themselves as Christians. They were 75% in 2015 81.6% in 2001, and 85% in 1990.

Why is God allofasudden electing fewer people to believe on Christ? I'll tell you why. It's because people have become too distracted to seek God. We are entertaining ourselves to death. As Arminians, we can see why this is happening in conjunction with the rise in mobile internet use and the digitization of everything, fewer people are growing up and maintaining Christianity. The faith is declining at a rapid pace in the West and many who claim to be Christian never even read the bible. Why? Because they're too distracted. Too distracted to make room for God in their lives. God electing fewer people is not a coincidence. People are following the world instead of pursuing a relationship with God

 

[Rockerduck]

Before Covid and after Covid. Before Covid, I went to full church's . After Covid the true colors showed how many were scared to die and not go out. Those, so called, Christians didn't trust Christ's saving Grace and protection. Real Born from above Christian's showed up to church. Church attendance went down and never recovered. Younger people in the polls are not religious. So the percentages go down each year.

 

[Nancy]

Before Covid and after Covid. Before Covid, I went to full church's . After Covid the true colors showed how many were scared to die and not go out. Those, so called, Christians didn't trust Christ's saving Grace and protection. Real Born from above Christian's showed up to church. Church attendance went down and never recovered. Younger people in the polls are not religious. So the percentages go down each year.

Spot on! Not to mention many true bible believing Christians, usually older are also leaving because of all the UNsound doctrines.

 

[Robert Pate]

In a 2020 survey by the Pew Research Center, 65% of adults in the United States identified themselves as Christians. They were 75% in 2015 81.6% in 2001, and 85% in 1990.

Why is God allofasudden electing fewer people to believe on Christ? I'll tell you why. It's because people have become too distracted to seek God. We are entertaining ourselves to death. As Arminians, we can see why this is happening in conjunction with the rise in mobile internet use and the digitization of everything, fewer people are growing up and maintaining Christianity. The faith is declining at a rapid pace in the West and many who claim to be Christian never even read the bible. Why? Because they're too distracted. Too distracted to make room for God in their lives. God electing fewer people is not a coincidence. People are following the world instead of pursuing a relationship with God

You apparently are a Calvinist that believes God chooses some and damns the rest to hell. But then you say that you are an Armenian, which is it? The reason that there is a falling way is because the sheep are being separated from the goats. There is a great divide going on and it is very visible. It appears to me that Jesus is going to return soon and take what is his back to heaven.

 

[friend of]

You apparently are a Calvinist that believes God chooses some and damns the rest to hell

Where did I say I was Calvinist?

 

[Robert Pate]

Where did I say I was Calvinist?

I believe that you said God elects some.

 

[friend of]

I believe that you said God elects some.

I was recapping the Calvinist position of monergism. My point is that God hasn't changed. He wants as many as possible to come to faith as possible as He did in time's past. I'm saying the reason why there are fewer Christians today than 20 years ago is because people are easily distracted by the pleasures of this world. If God were truly Calvinist, we wouldn't see a sharp decline in Christianity in tandem with the rise in technology and a culture of decadent self-obsession.

 

[Robert Pate]

I was recapping the Calvinist position of monergism. My point is that God hasn't changed. He wants as many as possible to come to faith as possible as He did in time's past. I'm saying the reason why there are fewer Christians today than 20 years ago is because people are easily distracted by the pleasures of this world. If God were truly Calvinist, we wouldn't see a sharp decline in Christianity in tandem with the rise in technology and a culture of decadent self-obsession.

Those that have been born again by the Gospel do not fall away. What does fall away is the counterfeits. They fall away because they have not been born again. They are the seed that fell on shallow ground in the parable of the Sower. If you are not a Calvinist you should not imply that God elects some. God has chosen all of humanity in Jesus Christ. Some believe, some don't.

 

[L.A.M.B.]

Website ;

About Us | Monergism

Monergism.com is a free, comprehensive online theological library comprised of Reformed Christian resources designed to bring glory to Jesus Christ alone. The

www.monergism.com

 

[MatthewG]

In a 2020 survey by the Pew Research Center, 65% of adults in the United States identified themselves as Christians. They were 75% in 2015 81.6% in 2001, and 85% in 1990.

Why is God allofasudden electing fewer people to believe on Christ? I'll tell you why. It's because people have become too distracted to seek God. We are entertaining ourselves to death. As Arminians, we can see why this is happening in conjunction with the rise in mobile internet use and the digitization of everything, fewer people are growing up and maintaining Christianity. The faith is declining at a rapid pace in the West and many who claim to be Christian never even read the bible. Why? Because they're too distracted. Too distracted to make room for God in their lives. God electing fewer people is not a coincidence. People are following the world instead of pursuing a relationship with God

Anytime is a good time to share with someone about the good LORD. If it is spirit led by abiding in Christ.

 

[friend of]

Those that have been born again by the Gospel do not fall away. What does fall away is the counterfeits. They fall away because they have not been born again. They are the seed that fell on shallow ground in the parable of the Sower. If you are not a Calvinist you should not imply that God elects some. God has chosen all of humanity in Jesus Christ. Some believe, some don't.

You're missing my point I think

 

[Mink57]

In a 2020 survey by the Pew Research Center, 65% of adults in the United States identified themselves as Christians. They were 75% in 2015 81.6% in 2001, and 85% in 1990.

Why is God allofasudden electing fewer people to believe on Christ? I'll tell you why. It's because people have become too distracted to seek God. We are entertaining ourselves to death. As Arminians, we can see why this is happening in conjunction with the rise in mobile internet use and the digitization of everything, fewer people are growing up and maintaining Christianity. The faith is declining at a rapid pace in the West and many who claim to be Christian never even read the bible. Why? Because they're too distracted. Too distracted to make room for God in their lives. God electing fewer people is not a coincidence. People are following the world instead of pursuing a relationship with God

There are many reasons why the statistics can be interpreted as a 'decline' in Christianity. But I would not put a ton of stock into these surveys, especially for the reason underlined below:

"On some questions, there may be more than one truthful way to answer. Take religious affiliation, for instance. There are many different opinions about what makes someone Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Hindu or Buddhist. But no matter what anyone else thinks is correct, surveys typically rely on respondents’ self-identification to measure religious identity. If the same person says she is Christian in one survey and unaffiliated in another, it is not necessarily the case that she was honest in one and dishonest in the other; she may have a tenuous link to Christianity, and in some contexts she calls herself a Christian while in other contexts she does not – without even thinking about it. The same is true when it comes to assessing the importance of religion in one’s life, a standard question in many surveys about religious and spiritual matters. There are no objectively correct or incorrect answers – whether a respondent describes religion as “somewhat” or “not too” important to them, for instance, could depend on what happened that day or who is asking the question."

Measuring Religion in Pew Research Center’s American Trends Panel

Since the establishment of the ATP, the Center has gradually migrated away from telephone polling and toward online survey administration, and since early 2019, the Center has conducted most of its U.S. polling on the ATP. This shift has major implications for the way the Center measures trends...

www.pewresearch.org

You yourself wrote that, "The faith is declining at a rapid pace in the West and many who claim to be Christian never even read the bible. Why? Because they're too distracted." The idea that some may not read the Bible because they are 'too distracted', may account for ONE reason, but certainly not the ONLY reason. It may or may not even be the MAIN reason.

I think we need to pay close attention to what I bolded in the quote; that there are MANY different opinions about what makes someone Christian, etc. Is it reading the Bible? Is it the frequency of church attendance? The frequency of prayer? A person can self-identify as a 'Christian' without reading the bible, attending church and/or praying.

Then again, someone can self-identify as a 'none', even if they believe in Christ, but don't attend church, simply because they view Christianity as a 'religion' and do not wish to be affiliated with any religion.

Conducting surveys and participating in survey can get tricky...which is why I don't put a whole lot of weight on them.

 

[Robert Pate]

You're missing my point I think

I get your point. You think that born again Christians are departing from the faith. Only 10% of professing Christians are real Christians, the rest are counterfeits. The counterfeits are the ones that cannot persevere, they don't have the Holy Spirit. You need to make a distinction between the lost counterfeits and the real Christians.

 

[Chains Broken]

I agree that distraction is part of why less people trust in God but I don't think that's the only factor. Social media is pretty negative in general and especially hateful toward religion. I'd say this turns younger people off religion, especially adolecents who are easily influenced and spend a lot of time on Twitter, Reddit, Tiktok, etc. It's easy to be turned off to something when the people influencing your entertainment say nasty things about it. Also in the US people tend to align much of their beliefs around their political party of choice, and that includes religion. I don't mean to get political but I think that is a factor. And last it just seems easier (on earth) to not be religious and sin without guilt, not go to church, etc.

 

[L.A.M.B.]

The term apostasy comes from the Greek word apostasia ("àпooτaoía") meaning "rebellion",
"state of apostasy", "abandonment", or
"defection",
as "a willful falling away from, or rebellion against.

It is falling AWAY FROM THE.....FAITH, not the religion of " Christianity" !

1 Timothy 4:1-2, "Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy: having their conscience seared with a hot iron;" 2 Timothy 4:3-4, "For the time will come when they WILL NOT endure SOUND DOCTRINE........

2 Thessalonians 2:1-3
2 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

2 Corinthians 11:3 - But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be CORRUPTED from the simplicity that is in Christ.

Hebrews 3:12-19 - Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in DEPARTING FROM THE LIVING GOD.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

The great falling away?​

We can thank the false doctrines of the OSAS peoples for the great falling away from the Lord:

1 Timothy 4:1,2
Now the Spirit speaks expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron

("depart from the faith" is not referring to sinners in the world who never came to faith in the first place)

1 Timothy 6:3-5 (see Luke 11:23 and 2 Peter 3:2)
If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness (holiness); (Doctrine of Christ, aka Doctrine of the Apostles)
He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof comes envy, strife, railings, evil thoughts… Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

2 Timothy 4:3,4
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine (teaching); but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

2 Peter 2:1-3
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying (contradicting, Not agreeing with) the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
And through covetousness (idolatry) shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingers not, and their damnation slumbers not.

Jude 1:4
For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness (no self control, living after the flesh), and denying (contradicting, opposing Jesus’ teachings) the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. (referring to false teachers and false brethren - see Matthew 13:24-30)

(Deny = Strong's G0720… to contradict, disavow, reject, deny, refuse - and Strong's G4483… the idea of pouring forth, to utter, speak of or say, command)

Jude 1:17-21
Remember the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;
How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.
These are those who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.
But you, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,
Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
("those who separate themselves" is not referring to sinners in the world who were never joined unto the Lord in the first place)

Acts 20:27-30
For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.
Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.

 

[Cassandra]

Before Covid and after Covid. Before Covid, I went to full church's . After Covid the true colors showed how many were scared to die and not go out. Those, so called, Christians didn't trust Christ's saving Grace and protection. Real Born from above Christian's showed up to church. Church attendance went down and never recovered. Younger people in the polls are not religious. So the percentages go down each year.

Wow!!! I had friends that attended church that died of COVID! Not everyone's immune system is the same. the judgement here is unbelievable!

 

[Rockerduck]

Wow!!! I had friends that attended church that died of COVID! Not everyone's immune system is the same. the judgement here is unbelievable!

God knows the hairs on your head and when you will die. I got covid early and I still went to church afterward. I trust in God, that if He calls me home it's my time. I never missed a day at church but so many were scared to come to church. God has a plan for your life, live it bravely in Christ. Romans 8:31 - If God is for us, who can be against us.

 

[ScottA]

In a 2020 survey by the Pew Research Center, 65% of adults in the United States identified themselves as Christians. They were 75% in 2015 81.6% in 2001, and 85% in 1990.

Why is God allofasudden electing fewer people to believe on Christ? I'll tell you why. It's because people have become too distracted to seek God. We are entertaining ourselves to death. As Arminians, we can see why this is happening in conjunction with the rise in mobile internet use and the digitization of everything, fewer people are growing up and maintaining Christianity. The faith is declining at a rapid pace in the West and many who claim to be Christian never even read the bible. Why? Because they're too distracted. Too distracted to make room for God in their lives. God electing fewer people is not a coincidence. People are following the world instead of pursuing a relationship with God

We are certainly seeing what would appear to be a "falling away" in people today. However, that's not really the messaged of 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4:

Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.​

Although the passage only eludes to it, Paul spoke rather of the reality that the flesh which is fallen comes first before the born again Spirit comes when Jesus comes into us. Paul's assurance then, is that if you have not yet been visited by Jesus in spirit upon His knocking and you opening the door to Him, you have nothing to worry about regarding whether or not you may have missed His coming.

Yet many have believed the "lie" that was foretold which was to be the cause of "strong delusion" regarding Jesus' return, believing He would come again in the flesh.

 

[Rockerduck]

We are certainly seeing what would appear to be a "falling away" in people today. However, that's not really the messaged of 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4:

Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.​

Although the passage only eludes to it, Paul spoke rather of the reality that the flesh which is fallen comes first before the born again Spirit comes when Jesus comes into us. Paul's assurance then, is that if you have not yet been visited by Jesus in spirit upon His knocking and you opening the door to Him, you have nothing to worry about regarding whether or not you may have missed His coming.

Yet many have believed the "lie" that was foretold which was to be the cause of "strong delusion" regarding Jesus' return, believing He would come again in the flesh.

The Apostle Paul only wrote to believers in his letters. The falling away is in all the commentaries as a separate event. You have an interesting view I haven't heard before. But the fact remains, Paul only wrote to believers.