The harlot's deception of the nations

[David in NJ]

None of this is from Scripture. The author of Hebrews had the Holy Spirit guidance. He did not need to read Enoch.

Jesus was God in flesh at conception by the Holy Spirit. What you claim happened at the baptism, is not a proper interpretation of any verse you may have quoted.

Enoch was translated, and came back as Elijah. Elijah left again.

Very good.
Question - Where do you find that Enoch came back as Elijah - Thank You

 

[Timtofly]

I'd like to know what he's saying, because that's what I got too - and he said Enoch is the heir of God's throne in the creation, which I find blasphemous. Christ is the only heir. Those in Christ will share with Him in His inheritance. Christ is the Creator. Christ is God. Christ was before all things and is from everlasting. Enoch is a creature - a descendant of Adam, who was created. So the Book of Enoch takes the status and inheritance that is Christ's alone and gives it to Enoch?

Either that or he's saying that Christ has usurped Enoch, or that Christ is Enoch... who knows? his post is a convoluted mess.

Do we have to read it again? It hurt the first time.

 

[David in NJ]

Do we have to read it again? It hurt the first time.

I forced myself to read it just in case i was missing something - but i wasn't and it was bad.
I asked him if he was saying that Jesus was Enoch.
He never answered my question.

 

[Brakelite]

I was unsure of whether the whore was the church/a church (whatever church) or if Jerusalem on earth was still considered the harlot.

One reason I see that Jerusalem cannot be Babylon is that the powers spoken of in the NT are global in their impact. The first and second beasts in Revelation 13 are global powers... Their administrations have global effects... Babylon is the same.
First Beast...
KJV Revelation 13:3-4, 7
3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
Second Beast...
KJV Revelation 13:12, 14, 16
12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
Babylon...
KJV Revelation 17:1-2
1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:
(KJV Revelation 17:15
15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.)
2
With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.

The mountains are also Kings, and are parallel to the 7 heads on the scarlet beast. The ten horns on the beast are not the same ten horns that grew from the 4th beast of Daniel 7, because 3 of those were previously plucked up and destroyed.
The beasts of Daniel were literal local powers centered mainly from east Asia to Europe. They were also principally in power in OT time.
The powers that succeeded them, the NT
the NT powers, are global spiritual powers. The ten horns on the NT are not yet apparent, but it appears from current political trends that they are ten divisions into which the world will be divided under the overall rule of Babylon, the church riding the political beast and controlling it.
7 heads, mountains, kings. 4 local empires in the OT, Babylon, Persia, Greece, and Rome...3 global spiritual powers in the NT... Catholicism, apostate Protestantism (the children of the whore), and spiritualism/atheism

 

[Timtofly]

Very good.
Question - Where do you find that Enoch came back as Elijah - Thank You

It has to do with the introduction of Elijah in 1 Kings 17:1.

"And Elijah the Tishbite, who was of the inhabitants of Gilead, said unto Ahab, As the Lord God of Israel liveth, before whom I stand, there shall not be dew nor rain these years, but according to my word."

Elijah is not introduced as having a father. The Hebrew word for Tishbite could indicate sojourner. That view has never been a historical view. The legend of Elijah seems to indicate he returns many times. That is not the basis for my point though.

It has been prophecied that Elijah would return. Jesus in the Gospels seems to leave His disciples believing the spirit of Elijah was given to John the Baptist as fulfillment of that prophecy. In fact it was just moments after they just saw Elijah on the mount of Transfiguration.

It is ironic that they were questioning for Elijah to return, per the scribes, just moments after seeing him. Since Elijah did not return as prophecied, the return that day must have left them wondering. Jesus was already come and no Elijah, but we already know from Luke 1, that was explained.

"And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead. And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come? And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things."

"But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them. Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist."

Jesus said Elijah will still come, but already came via John the Baptist.

"For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb. And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God. And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord."

So we know John was not Elijah, but had the spirit and power of Elijah. And from the experience on the mount of Transfiguration, both Elijah and Moses have incorruptible permanent physical bodies. They can come to earth as God desires and when necessary.

 

[Curtis]

The beast that destroys the Harlot is not the beast of Revelation 13, But rather the one that ascends out of the Bottomless pit. A lot of people who study prophecy make this mistake, and use the descriptives in Revelation 17 to identify the beast of revelation 13, but they are vastly different. The beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit is a fallen angel, not a man empowered by the dragon.

The antichrist ends up possessed by Satan.

 

[Curtis]

It has to do with the introduction of Elijah in 1 Kings 17:1.

"And Elijah the Tishbite, who was of the inhabitants of Gilead, said unto Ahab, As the Lord God of Israel liveth, before whom I stand, there shall not be dew nor rain these years, but according to my word."

Elijah is not introduced as having a father. The Hebrew word for Tishbite could indicate sojourner. That view has never been a historical view. The legend of Elijah seems to indicate he returns many times. That is not the basis for my point though.

It has been prophecied that Elijah would return. Jesus in the Gospels seems to leave His disciples believing the spirit of Elijah was given to John the Baptist as fulfillment of that prophecy. In fact it was just moments after they just saw Elijah on the mount of Transfiguration.

It is ironic that they were questioning for Elijah to return, per the scribes, just moments after seeing him. Since Elijah did not return as prophecied, the return that day must have left them wondering. Jesus was already come and no Elijah, but we already know from Luke 1, that was explained.

"And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead. And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come? And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things."

"But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them. Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist."

Jesus said Elijah will still come, but already came via John the Baptist.

"For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb. And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God. And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord."

So we know John was not Elijah, but had the spirit and power of Elijah. And from the experience on the mount of Transfiguration, both Elijah and Moses have incorruptible permanent physical bodies. They can come to earth as God desires and when necessary.

Elijah has not died.

But he will, during the tribulation.

 

[Truth7t7]

One reason I see that Jerusalem cannot be Babylon is that the powers spoken of in the NT are global in their impact. The first and second beasts in Revelation 13 are global powers... Their administrations have global effects... Babylon is the same.
First Beast...
KJV Revelation 13:3-4, 7
3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
Second Beast...
KJV Revelation 13:12, 14, 16
12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
Babylon...
KJV Revelation 17:1-2
1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:
(KJV Revelation 17:15
15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.)
2
With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.

The mountains are also Kings, and are parallel to the 7 heads on the scarlet beast. The ten horns on the beast are not the same ten horns that grew from the 4th beast of Daniel 7, because 3 of those were previously plucked up and destroyed.
The beasts of Daniel were literal local powers centered mainly from east Asia to Europe. They were also principally in power in OT time.
The powers that succeeded them, the NT
the NT powers, are global spiritual powers. The ten horns on the NT are not yet apparent, but it appears from current political trends that they are ten divisions into which the world will be divided under the overall rule of Babylon, the church riding the political beast and controlling it.
7 heads, mountains, kings. 4 local empires in the OT, Babylon, Persia, Greece, and Rome...3 global spiritual powers in the NT... Catholicism, apostate Protestantism (the children of the whore), and spiritualism/atheism

(Jerusalem) Is The Whore, Mystery Babylon The Great Of Revelation Chapter 17

The Levitical High Priest & Dressing represents "The Woman", that is dressed in purple, scarlet, gold, and precious stones as seen below

(Revelation) 17:4KJV
4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

Yes, The Levitical High Priest, Dressed In Purple, Scarlet, Gold, And Precious Stones

(Exodus) 28:15-20KJV
15 And thou shalt make the breastplate of judgment with cunning work; after the work of the ephod thou shalt make it; of gold, of blue, and of purple, and of scarlet, and of fine twined linen, shalt thou make it.
16 Foursquare it shall be being doubled; a span shall be the length thereof, and a span shall be the breadth thereof.
17 And thou shalt set in it settings of stones, even four rows of stones: the first row shall be a sardius, a topaz, and a carbuncle: this shall be the first row.
18 And the second row shall be an emerald, a sapphire, and a diamond.
19 And the third row a ligure, an agate, and an amethyst.
20 And the fourth row a beryl, and an onyx, and a jasper: they shall be set in gold in their inclosings.

(Jerusalem) is the seven hilled city, where the woman sits, not Rome as many falsely claim.

(Revelation) 17:9KJV
9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

List of cities claimed to be built on seven hills - Wikipedia
Jerusalem, Israel: Jerusalem's seven hills are Mount Scopus, Mount Olivet and the Mount of Corruption (all three are peaks in a mountain ridge that lies east of the Old City), Mount Ophel, the original Mount Zion, the New Mount Zion and the hill on which the Antonia Fortress was built.

The Roman Empire didnt exist to be guilty of the Prophets blood seen below, Jerusalem did.

(Revelation) 18:24KJV
24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

(Matthew) 23:29-37KJV
29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

 

[David H.]

The antichrist ends up possessed by Satan.

The Antichrist is a Man Possessed By Satan. True.
The Beast of Revelation 13 ascends from the sea, (Revelation 13:1)
The Beast of Revelation 17 Ascends from the Bottomless Pit. Also Known as the Lowest Parts of Hell, Taratroo in the Greek. The Only Ones chained down there are the fallen angels as Per 2 Peter 2:4: For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell (Tartaroo), and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

At the Fifth trumpet we first see this Beast Which cannot be released until the Key is sent down to open the door to the Bottomless Pit. (Revelation 9:1) This Fallen angel is the One that Kills the two witnesses. (Revelation 11:7) As opposed to "any man" Being unable to hurt the two witnesses...
And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed. (Revelation 11:5)

All Of this tells me the Beast that ascends out of the bottomless Pit is a fallen angel, not a man and therefore not the man of sin the antichrist, the beast of Revelation 13, But another Beast. Revelation 17 only confirms this.

 

[Truth7t7]

The Antichrist is a Man Possessed By Satan. True.
The Beast of Revelation 13 ascends from the sea, (Revelation 13:1)
The Beast of Revelation 17 Ascends from the Bottomless Pit. Also Known as the Lowest Parts of Hell, Taratroo in the Greek. The Only Ones chained down there are the fallen angels as Per 2 Peter 2:4: For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell (Tartaroo), and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

At the Fifth trumpet we first see this Beast Which cannot be released until the Key is sent down to open the door to the Bottomless Pit. (Revelation 9:1) This Fallen angel is the One that Kills the two witnesses. (Revelation 11:7) As opposed to "any man" Being unable to hurt the two witnesses...
And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed. (Revelation 11:5)

All Of this tells me the Beast that ascends out of the bottomless Pit is a fallen angel, not a man and therefore not the man of sin the antichrist, the beast of Revelation 13, But another Beast. Revelation 17 only confirms this.

I disagree, the beast in Revelation 13 & 17 are the same, they have the same 7 heads and 10 horns

Coming from the bottomless pit shows satan is in possession, and going into perdition is his final judgement

To claim there are two separate beast with 7 heads and 10 horns is unfounded

Revelation 13:1 rising out of the sea represents he rises out of the multitudes of people on the earth

Revelation 17:10-11 clearly describe (The Beast) as the 8th King in succession of human Kings on earth

The future Beast will be a literal human man, that is a King/Ruler, of Hebrew/Jewish decent

In Love, Jesus Is The Lord

 

[Stumpmaster]

(Jerusalem) Is The Whore, Mystery Babylon The Great Of Revelation Chapter 17

The Levitical High Priest & Dressing represents "The Woman", that is dressed in purple, scarlet, gold, and precious stones as seen below

(Revelation) 17:4KJV
4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

Yes, The Levitical High Priest, Dressed In Purple, Scarlet, Gold, And Precious Stones

(Exodus) 28:15-20KJV
15 And thou shalt make the breastplate of judgment with cunning work; after the work of the ephod thou shalt make it; of gold, of blue, and of purple, and of scarlet, and of fine twined linen, shalt thou make it.
16 Foursquare it shall be being doubled; a span shall be the length thereof, and a span shall be the breadth thereof.
17 And thou shalt set in it settings of stones, even four rows of stones: the first row shall be a sardius, a topaz, and a carbuncle: this shall be the first row.
18 And the second row shall be an emerald, a sapphire, and a diamond.
19 And the third row a ligure, an agate, and an amethyst.
20 And the fourth row a beryl, and an onyx, and a jasper: they shall be set in gold in their inclosings.

(Jerusalem) is the seven hilled city, where the woman sits, not Rome as many falsely claim.

(Revelation) 17:9KJV
9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

List of cities claimed to be built on seven hills - Wikipedia
Jerusalem, Israel: Jerusalem's seven hills are Mount Scopus, Mount Olivet and the Mount of Corruption (all three are peaks in a mountain ridge that lies east of the Old City), Mount Ophel, the original Mount Zion, the New Mount Zion and the hill on which the Antonia Fortress was built.

The Roman Empire didnt exist to be guilty of the Prophets blood seen below, Jerusalem did.

(Revelation) 18:24KJV
24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

(Matthew) 23:29-37KJV
29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

Loop Alert

 

[David H.]

I disagree, the beast in Revelation 13 & 17 are the same, they have the same 7 heads and 10 horns

Coming from the bottomless pit shows satan is in possession, and going into perdition is his final judgement

To claim there are two separate beast with 7 heads and 10 horns is unfounded

Revelation 13:1 rising out of the sea represents he rises out of the multitudes of people on the earth

Revelation 17:10-11 clearly describe (The Beast) as the 8th King in succession of human Kings on earth

The future Beast will be a literal human man, that is a King/Ruler, of Hebrew/Jewish decent

In Love, Jesus Is The Lord

You and I disagree on a lot of stuff, But at least you Agree that Jesus is The LORD. Keep Looking up!

 

[Truth7t7]

Loop Alert

Truth Alert

 

[Stumpmaster]

It has to do with the introduction of Elijah in 1 Kings 17:1.

"And Elijah the Tishbite, who was of the inhabitants of Gilead, said unto Ahab, As the Lord God of Israel liveth, before whom I stand, there shall not be dew nor rain these years, but according to my word."

Elijah is not introduced as having a father. The Hebrew word for Tishbite could indicate sojourner. That view has never been a historical view. The legend of Elijah seems to indicate he returns many times. That is not the basis for my point though.

It has been prophecied that Elijah would return. Jesus in the Gospels seems to leave His disciples believing the spirit of Elijah was given to John the Baptist as fulfillment of that prophecy. In fact it was just moments after they just saw Elijah on the mount of Transfiguration.

It is ironic that they were questioning for Elijah to return, per the scribes, just moments after seeing him. Since Elijah did not return as prophecied, the return that day must have left them wondering. Jesus was already come and no Elijah, but we already know from Luke 1, that was explained.

"And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead. And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come? And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things."

"But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them. Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist."

Jesus said Elijah will still come, but already came via John the Baptist.

"For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb. And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God. And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord."

So we know John was not Elijah, but had the spirit and power of Elijah. And from the experience on the mount of Transfiguration, both Elijah and Moses have incorruptible permanent physical bodies. They can come to earth as God desires and when necessary.

It's a fallacy of composition that no mention in Scripture of Elijah's parentage requires that he didn't have any on earth, and it is a misinterpretation of Scripture that fosters the belief John the Baptist was Elijah reincarnate.

Jas 5:17 Elias was a man subject to like passions as we are, and he prayed earnestly that it might not rain: and it rained not on the earth by the space of three years and six months.

Luk 1:17 And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.

 

[David in NJ]

It has to do with the introduction of Elijah in 1 Kings 17:1.

"And Elijah the Tishbite, who was of the inhabitants of Gilead, said unto Ahab, As the Lord God of Israel liveth, before whom I stand, there shall not be dew nor rain these years, but according to my word."

Elijah is not introduced as having a father. The Hebrew word for Tishbite could indicate sojourner. That view has never been a historical view. The legend of Elijah seems to indicate he returns many times. That is not the basis for my point though.

It has been prophecied that Elijah would return. Jesus in the Gospels seems to leave His disciples believing the spirit of Elijah was given to John the Baptist as fulfillment of that prophecy. In fact it was just moments after they just saw Elijah on the mount of Transfiguration.

It is ironic that they were questioning for Elijah to return, per the scribes, just moments after seeing him. Since Elijah did not return as prophecied, the return that day must have left them wondering. Jesus was already come and no Elijah, but we already know from Luke 1, that was explained.

"And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead. And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come? And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things."

"But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them. Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist."

Jesus said Elijah will still come, but already came via John the Baptist.

"For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb. And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God. And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord."

So we know John was not Elijah, but had the spirit and power of Elijah. And from the experience on the mount of Transfiguration, both Elijah and Moses have incorruptible permanent physical bodies. They can come to earth as God desires and when necessary.

First, i want to thank you for taking the time to detail your answer - it was well received.

The Elijah / John the Baptist part i understand and agree with your (Jesus & Scripture) accounting.
This is was the same Holy Spirit that was in Elijah, was in John - evidence of Luke 1:15
i do not believe John was Elijah reincarnated as evidenced in Scripture by this: Luke 1:13
But the angel said to him: “Do not be afraid, Zechariah; your prayer has been heard. Your wife Elizabeth will bear you a son, and you are to call him John.
This declaration by the angel, who was on special assignment from God clearly refutes reincarnation of Elijah.

i do not see Enoch being Elijah. Please, if you have any evidence or Scripture to this - let me know - thank you and greatfull.

 

[Timtofly]

It's a fallacy of composition that no mention in Scripture of Elijah's parentage requires that he didn't have any on earth, and it is a misinterpretation of Scripture that fosters the belief John the Baptist was Elijah reincarnate.

Jas 5:17 Elias was a man subject to like passions as we are, and he prayed earnestly that it might not rain: and it rained not on the earth by the space of three years and six months.

Luk 1:17 And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.

It would be a fallacy to accept Moses and Elijah appeared on the mount of Transfiguration as well then.

 

[Timtofly]

First, i want to thank you for taking the time to detail your answer - it was well received.

The Elijah / John the Baptist part i understand and agree with your (Jesus & Scripture) accounting.
This is was the same Holy Spirit that was in Elijah, was in John - evidence of Luke 1:15
i do not believe John was Elijah reincarnated as evidenced in Scripture by this: Luke 1:13
But the angel said to him: “Do not be afraid, Zechariah; your prayer has been heard. Your wife Elizabeth will bear you a son, and you are to call him John.
This declaration by the angel, who was on special assignment from God clearly refutes reincarnation of Elijah.

i do not see Enoch being Elijah. Please, if you have any evidence or Scripture to this - let me know - thank you and greatfull.

Is there any connection between Revelation 4:6-8 and Revelation 11:4?

 

[Stumpmaster]

It would be a fallacy to accept Moses and Elijah appeared on the mount of Transfiguration as well then.

No, that's not a logical conclusion to reach from rejecting the notion that Elijah was a reincarnation of Enoch based on his parentage not being mentioned in Scripture.

The eye-witness accounts of the Transfiguration in the Gospels are believable whereas the assertion that lack of mention of Elijah's parenthood means he didn't have earthly parents and therefore must be Enoch reincarnate is not believable since there are no Scriptures that support this.

 

[Truth7t7]

Is there any connection between Revelation 4:6-8 and Revelation 11:4?

No relationship, Revelation 4:6-8 represents the Holy Cherubim's, while Revelation 11:4 represents the (Two Witnesses) prophets returned

 

[Timtofly]

No, that's not a logical conclusion to reach from rejecting the notion that Elijah was a reincarnation of Enoch based on his parentage not being mentioned in Scripture.

The eye-witness accounts of the Transfiguration in the Gospels are believable whereas the assertion that lack of mention of Elijah's parenthood means he didn't have earthly parents and therefore must be Enoch reincarnate is not believable since there are no Scriptures that support this.

There is no reincarnate aspect at all to Elijah being Enoch any more if Enoch showed up on the Mount of Transfiguration.

That is the whole point. Enoch came back as Elijah as the same soul, same body Enoch left with. Only the name changed. Why does the Bible have to declare Elijah came in a chariot of fire just to prove a point? We know that is how he left, because Elisha saw it. No one saw it drop Elijah off, so no one needed to record that event.

Do you have 3 OT witnesses? Or just 2, Elijah and Moses? Why was Enoch a man of faith, but not Elijah? Did the guy need to be mentioned twice?

If Elijah shows up now, it would not be a reincarnation. It would still be the same soul and body.