The harlot's deception of the nations

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Marty fox

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Revelation 13:23b-24
“..for by your sorceries were all nations deceived. And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.”

Revelation 19:20
“And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet doing signs before it, by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast, and those who had worshipped his image. The two were thrown alive into the Lake of Fire burning with brimstone.

Revelation 13:11b, 13-15
"..he had two horns like a lamb, and he spoke as a dragon.”

“And he does great wonders, so that he makes fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, And deceives them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live. And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.”

In the Revelation there's only one false prophet deceiving the nations through sorcery. Is it the harlot?

They are kind of together but they are different. The harlot Babylon the great is Jerusalem and her leadership in the first century and I believe the false prophet the land beast as apostate Israel
 

Curtis

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Revelation 13:23b-24
“..for by your sorceries were all nations deceived. And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.”

Revelation 19:20
“And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet doing signs before it, by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast, and those who had worshipped his image. The two were thrown alive into the Lake of Fire burning with brimstone.

Revelation 13:11b, 13-15
"..he had two horns like a lamb, and he spoke as a dragon.”

“And he does great wonders, so that he makes fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, And deceives them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live. And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.”

In the Revelation there's only one false prophet deceiving the nations through sorcery. Is it the harlot?

The harlot is a city, and is called SHE - the false prophet is a man, not a city, and probably claims to be Elijah and calls down fire from heaven as Elijah does, as a deception.
 
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Curtis

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You are not hearing what I said.
Satan is indeed bound!
Spiritually, he is bound from entering into any person who has been born again! Why? The Spirit of God is within them.
Hear the parable of "the unclean spirit".
Luke 11[24] When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he saith, I will return unto my house whence I came out.
[25] And when he cometh, he findeth it swept and garnished.
[26] Then goeth he, and taketh to him seven other spirits more wicked than himself; and they enter in, and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first.
> Such is the case for people who hear the Gospel message and come to God in faith of Jesus, but never ask for the indwelling of God's Holy Spirit. They were made clean and garnished, but they never made their
"calling" and "election" sure (sealed).
2 Peter 1[10] Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence [follow through] to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
Luke 11:13, Romans 8:8-9.

You might also read about the "strong man", Mark 3:27-29.
All of such, since Pentecost, who were called, but did not follow through with Christ, to recieve the gift of the Holy Spirit of God, neglected and ignored the day of THEIR own "visitation".
They remain as "tares", being "condemned already". John 3:18.

When reading and studying Revelation, be sure to fully understand all of the NT scriptures "by HIS spirit", and not by any other way. Zechariah 4:6, John 16:13

Except for most of the world that is not Christian, Satan is god of this world.

When Satan is bound during the millennium, he is no longer god of this world to anyone, and no longer roams about seeking to steal, kill, and destroy, anywhere.

While Satan is bound there is also world peace.
 
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Earburner

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Except for most of the world that is not Christian, Satan is god of this world.

When Satan is bound during the millennium, he is no longer god of this world to anyone, and no longer roams about seeking to steal, kill, and destroy, anywhere.

While Satan is bound there is also world peace.
Jesus is stronger than satan is He not?
What was the "first" thing that Jesus had to do, in order to "set the captives free".
Mark 3[27] No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house.
> Every person, who is not born again, is of the "goods" of satan. Jesus came to spoil satan's "goods", so that through His sacrificial blood, He could redeem/purchase us back to God.

For all who do enter into God's New Covenant agreement, satan is bound by Christ from him entering back into us, to use us as he pleases.

We have been in the 1000 years, ever since Christ won the victory for us. Its called the Age of God's Grace.
 

Earburner

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I obviously misunderstood you because you said,
Quote
Only Christ, the "firstborn" from the dead, has conquered it, and only He has received Eternal life and immortality.

We, who are of faith in Christ... are still in waiting for that day! The day of our resurrection into the likeness of His immortality of New Life.Unquote


I never read the "and immortality" part with the rest. Apologies.
No problem!
Sometimes the language of our words are not able to adequately able to describe, or keep up with the magnitude of the Gift of the Lord's salvation.
Of a truth, by His indwelling, we do have "this treasure in earthen vessels", but it does not yet appear of how we shall be in the Newness of His Life and immortality, upon His Glorious and Fiery return
In Him, our experience truly is a twofold process.
 
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Zao is life

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You are not hearing what I said.
Satan is indeed bound!
Spiritually, he is bound from entering into any person who has been born again! Why? The Spirit of God is within them.
Hear the parable of "the unclean spirit".
Luke 11[24] When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he saith, I will return unto my house whence I came out.
[25] And when he cometh, he findeth it swept and garnished.
[26] Then goeth he, and taketh to him seven other spirits more wicked than himself; and they enter in, and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first.
> Such is the case for people who hear the Gospel message and come to God in faith of Jesus, but never ask for the indwelling of God's Holy Spirit. They were made clean and garnished, but they never made their
"calling" and "election" sure (sealed).
2 Peter 1[10] Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence [follow through] to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
Luke 11:13, Romans 8:8-9.

You might also read about the "strong man", Mark 3:27-29.
All of such, since Pentecost, who were called, but did not follow through with Christ, to recieve the gift of the Holy Spirit of God, neglected and ignored the day of THEIR own "visitation".
They remain as "tares", being "condemned already". John 3:18.

When reading and studying Revelation, be sure to fully understand all of the NT scriptures "by HIS spirit", and not by any other way. Zechariah 4:6, John 16:13
Revelation 20 does not say Satan gets bound so he is unable to deceive the saints. It says he gets bound so that he is unable to deceive the nations, and he is called the deceiver.

Revelation 12:9
And the great dragon was cast out, the old serpent called Devil, and Satan, who deceives the whole world. He was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Revelation 20
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him a thousand years.
3 And he cast him into the abyss and shut him up and set a seal on him, that he should deceive the nations no more until the thousand years should be fulfilled. And after that he must be loosed a little time.

So yes, Jesus rules in the hearts and minds of those who believe in Him and submit to Him, but Satan runs amok everywhere, just as the Lord's apostles warned us a number of times. So Satan is not bound.

I've noticed A-mils always quote 'the strong man' passage as though that proves their point. It does not. (Nothing I've ever heard A-mils say proves their point regarding Satan being bound), because it's simply not scriptural to say that Satan is bound - too many New Testament scriptures say the exact opposite.

For now we do not see all things under His (Christ's) feet (Hebrews 2:8b). But it's coming - once Satan has been bound.
 
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Zao is life

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They are kind of together but they are different. The harlot Babylon the great is Jerusalem and her leadership in the first century and I believe the false prophet the land beast as apostate Israel
I agree with you except that with regard to the FP and the beast from the earth I see that as a possibility but don't "believe"it.

Thanks.

I haven't identified in my mind the son of perdition of 2 Thess 4, or the ten kings of the beast, or the beast himself (the 8th king of Revelation 17), or the harlot, or the beast rising from the earth, except that for sure the beast rising from the earth is the false prophet, but I don't know his identity - except to say that what you said about the FP and Israel is a possibility which I bear in mind.
 
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Zao is life

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The harlot is a city, and is called SHE - the false prophet is a man, not a city, and probably claims to be Elijah and calls down fire from heaven as Elijah does, as a deception.
Yes, that is true and the rest following the "probably" is possible (and very interesting).
 
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Zao is life

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Jesus is stronger than satan is He not?
What was the "first" thing that Jesus had to do, in order to "set the captives free".
Mark 3[27] No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house.
> Every person, who is not born again, is of the "goods" of satan. Jesus came to spoil satan's "goods", so that through His sacrificial blood, He could redeem/purchase us back to God.

For all who do enter into God's New Covenant agreement, satan is bound by Christ from him entering back into us, to use us as he pleases.

We have been in the 1000 years, ever since Christ won the victory for us. Its called the Age of God's Grace.
What you're missing is that Revelation 20 does not say Satan gets bound so that he is unable to deceive the saints any longer. It says he gets bound so that he is unable to deceive the nations any longer.
 

Earburner

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What you're missing is that Revelation 20 does not say Satan gets bound so that he is unable to deceive the saints any longer. It says he gets bound so that he is unable to deceive the nations any longer.
Then I must ask, what does Matthew 12:28-29, Mark 3:23-27 and Luke 11:21-22 mean to you?
Do you have another suggestion of who the "strong man" is, in the scriptures I quoted?

If not, then why do you doubt that Jesus had to first bind satan BEFORE He spoiled his "goods". And since he was bound, scripture says that he will be loosed.

Now, since the scriptures do say that Jesus must first bind satan, and has been spoiling satan's goods ever since Pentecost, shall we say that today satan is now no longer bound?
Yes! We can! The 1000 years is symbolic of the age of God's Grace, ever since Pentecost. Today, the Gospel HAS BEEN preached in all the world, and after that, the END shall come.
Therefore, the ending of the symbolic 1000 years of God's Grace, started to close in the mid 1800's, with the antichrist belief in the "Theory of Evolution" (Darwinism- there is no God). From there the miracles and wonders of electricity, communications, science and technology started to fill the world. For the first time, WW1 was the age of industrialized warfare, and after WW2 it all suddenly went into overdrive by "the prince of the power of the "air", revealing that he was now loosed, "knowing that he hath but a short time".
 

Earburner

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In less than 220 years,the whole world has gone from 6000 years of horse and carriage, with buggy whips, to robots and intergalactic space flight. So tell me, where did that all that genius of man suddenly come from?
 

Marty fox

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I agree with you except that with regard to the FP and the beast from the earth I see that as a possibility but don't "believe"it.

Thanks.

I haven't identified in my mind the son of perdition of 2 Thess 4, or the ten kings of the beast, or the beast himself (the 8th king of Revelation 17), or the harlot, or the beast rising from the earth, except that for sure the beast rising from the earth is the false prophet, but I don't know his identity - except to say that what you said about the FP and Israel is a possibility which I bear in mind.

Then why is the false prophet the only beast in the bible described as a clean animal a lamb?

Why did Jesus actually call the Pharisees false prophets?

Jesus also called the Pharisees wolves in sheep’s clothing and told them that they were children of satan

Jesus described the Pharisees the same as revelation described the false prophet thus Jesus tied apostate Israel to the false prophet.
 

Zao is life

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Then I must ask, what does Matthew 12:28-29, Mark 3:23-27 and Luke 11:21-22 mean to you?
Do you have another suggestion of who the "strong man" is, in the scriptures I quoted?

If not, then why do you doubt that Jesus had to first bind satan BEFORE He spoiled his "goods". And since he was bound, scripture says that he will be loosed.

Now, since the scriptures do say that Jesus must first bind satan, and has been spoiling satan's goods ever since Pentecost, shall we say that today satan is now no longer bound?
Yes! We can! The 1000 years is symbolic of the age of God's Grace, ever since Pentecost. Today, the Gospel HAS BEEN preached in all the world, and after that, the END shall come.
Therefore, the ending of the symbolic 1000 years of God's Grace, started to close in the mid 1800's, with the antichrist belief in the "Theory of Evolution" (Darwinism- there is no God). From there the miracles and wonders of electricity, communications, science and technology started to fill the world. For the first time, WW1 was the age of industrialized warfare, and after WW2 it all suddenly went into overdrive by "the prince of the power of the "air", revealing that he was now loosed, "knowing that he hath but a short time".
Context is everything. The Pharisees were falsely accusing Jesus of casting out demons by Beelzebub. He pointed out the obvious to them.
You're not only missing that Satan is not bound (by your own admission) so that he is unable to deceive the nations. You're also missing that Jesus did not cast Satan out of the world when He cast demons out of individuals - He cast Satan out of heaven and down to earth (expelled from heaven where by the Law he was able to accuse the brethren before God until Jesus died and rose again). The state prosecutor had no case against the accused anymore so there was no reason for him to appear in court in front of the judge, and so he was restricted to roam around on the earth where he had always roamed.

Jesus did not cast Satan out of the world. He cast Satan out of individuals. He would need to be more powerful than Satan in order to do that, and he was pointing out the obvious to the Pharisees, who had made themselves dumb & dumber through the hardness of their hearts, hurling stupid, ridiculous accusations in their pathetic ignorance, which was wrought in them by the hardness of their hearts, and in the process too dumb to realize what they were saying was the height of blasphemy.

If Jesus had cast Satan out of the world or bound him from doing anything in the world, why did Jesus cast Satan down to earth where he could go war against "the rest of the woman's seed who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus" (Revelation 12:17) in the day that Satan was expelled from appearing before God to accuse the brethren ? Why does the scripture say, with regard to Satan being cast down to the earth, "Therefore rejoice, all of you heavens, and all of you that dwell in them. Woe to the citizens of the earth and of the sea! for the devil has come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has but a short time." (Revelation 12:1)?

Does casting demons out of a man because Jesus is stronger and has the power and authority to do so mean that He has bound Satan and his demons from any further activity in the world?
 
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Marty fox

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I agree with you except that with regard to the FP and the beast from the earth I see that as a possibility but don't "believe"it.

Thanks.

I haven't identified in my mind the son of perdition of 2 Thess 4, or the ten kings of the beast, or the beast himself (the 8th king of Revelation 17), or the harlot, or the beast rising from the earth, except that for sure the beast rising from the earth is the false prophet, but I don't know his identity - except to say that what you said about the FP and Israel is a possibility which I bear in mind.

Who I think that they are

Son of perdition Nero

The 10 kings demonic beings over nations

The sea beast a demonic being over Rome

The harlot Jerusalem
 

Zao is life

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Then why is the false prophet the only beast in the bible described as a clean animal a lamb?

Why did Jesus actually call the Pharisees false prophets?

Jesus also called the Pharisees wolves in sheep’s clothing and told them that they were children of satan

Jesus described the Pharisees the same as revelation described the false prophet thus Jesus tied apostate Israel to the false prophet.
I said what you say is possible. Jesus called Christians lambs also. With regards to horns like a lamb you're tying things together on very flimsy evidence.
So when I say it's possible I mean I don't regard the evidence you have given as enough for a conviction. Bark up any tree you want to. I'll keep looking for the correct tree, while bearing your tree in mind in case it's the one we're all on the look-out for :)
 

Zao is life

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Who I think that they are

Son of perdition Nero

The 10 kings demonic beings over nations

The sea beast a demonic being over Rome

The harlot Jerusalem

Son of perdition Nero.

I don't agree at all. He will be known as a Christian and will be a well-known Christian leader held in high esteem by Christians. The temple he will seat himself up in is the Church.

The 10 kings demonic beings over nations.

When will or did they receive their kingdoms? Because when John wrote, they had not yet received their kingdoms.

Besides that, I disagree. They are humans. You give too much power to Satan and his demons. Spirit beings cannot work but through human beings.

The sea beast a demonic being over Rome.

I disagree again, but I see that once any Christian has identified all these entities, there's no convincing him of anything else. Seems like this is a Preterist board, judging by how many Preterists I've come across already.

The harlot Jerusalem.

Maybe. Maybe the Church. Probably the Church. The apostate Church that will follow the son of perdition.
 

David H.

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I said what you say is possible. Jesus called Christians lambs also. With regards to horns like a lamb you're tying things together on very flimsy evidence.
So when I say it's possible I mean I don't regard the evidence you have given as enough for a conviction. Bark up any tree you want to. I'll keep looking for the correct tree, while bearing your tree in mind in case it's the one we're all on the look-out for :)

If i May Interject, the key to understanding the false Prophet is it speaks like the dragon.... How does the dragon speak? My opinion is that the false Prophet is the false church, Just like in Jesus' day it was the Pharisees and leaders of the Harlot Judaism. The two horns are the mother church and her harlot daughters Rome and Protestantism and specifically the Nicolaitan leadership in those churches.
 

Marty fox

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I said what you say is possible. Jesus called Christians lambs also. With regards to horns like a lamb you're tying things together on very flimsy evidence.
So when I say it's possible I mean I don't regard the evidence you have given as enough for a conviction. Bark up any tree you want to. I'll keep looking for the correct tree, while bearing your tree in mind in case it's the one we're all on the look-out for :)

I see thanks but a false prophet would seem to come from the same people as the true prophets wouldn’t it?

I think that the crucifying of Christ would be the biggest task of satan and he would of put everything into it especially deceiving the Pharisees to turn the people from the one true God who they were supposed to lead them too to Rome that sounds like the perfect description of a false prophet
 

Zao is life

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If i May Interject, the key to understanding the false Prophet is it speaks like the dragon.... How does the dragon speak? My opinion is that the false Prophet is the false church, Just like in Jesus' day it was the Pharisees and leaders of the Harlot Judaism. The two horns are the mother church and her harlot daughters Rome and Protestantism and specifically the Nicolaitan leadership in those churches.
That makes a great deal of sense, and I bear it in mind all the time because the word naos shows that the 'temple' that the son of perdition will seat himself up in, is the church (a church). I started a thread on that so won't repeat it here.

What you say is exactly why I asked the question that started this thread - but as Ferris reminded me, the harlot will be destroyed by the 10 kings of the beast so she cannot be the same as the FP who's doing the bidding of the beast. She's not still there with them by the time the beast and FP wind up in the LOF.
 

Zao is life

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I see thanks but a false prophet would seem to come from the same people as the true prophets wouldn’t it?

I think that the crucifying of Christ would be the biggest task of satan and he would of put everything into it especially deceiving the Pharisees to turn the people from the one true God who they were supposed to lead them too to Rome that sounds like the perfect description of a false prophet
Well no, because the FP is doing the bidding of the beast that Christ will destroy when He returns, and Jesus will throw both of them into the LOF.