The Hell Doctrine - No doctrinal unity

[Jack]

Every Israelite knew100% the Messiah has a God just like us-Psalm 45:7--so he was not saying what you think. There is a whole bible Jack.

As usual you avoid quoting Scripture. Do you need Kingdom Hall's permission to quote Scripture? Let me help you.

Psalm 45
7 You love righteousness and hate wickedness; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.

I wonder if you have even read the Bible!

 

[Brakelite]

DESTRUCTION
KJV Psalms 145:20
20 The LORD preserveth all them that love him: but all the wicked will he destroy.
KJV Psalms 101:8
8 I will early destroy all the wicked of the land; that I may cut off all wicked doers from the city of the LORD.
KJV Psalms 37:38
38 But the transgressors shall be destroyed together: the end of the wicked shall be cut off.
KJV Psalms 92:7
7 When the wicked spring as the grass, and when all the workers of iniquity do flourish; it is that they shall be destroyed for ever:
KJV Proverbs 13:13
13 Whoso despiseth the word shall be destroyed: but he that feareth the commandment shall be rewarded.
KJV Proverbs 10:29
29 The way of the LORD is strength to the upright: but destruction shall be to the workers of iniquity.
KJV Philippians 3:19
19 Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.)
KJV 1 Timothy 6:9
9 But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition.
KJV 2 Thessalonians 1:9
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
KJV Matthew 7:13
13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
PERISH
KJV Psalms 37:20
20 But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.
KJV Proverbs 19:9
9 A false witness shall not be unpunished, and he that speaketh lies shall perish.
KJV Luke 13:3
3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
KJV John 3:16
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
KJV 2 Thessalonians 2:10
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
KJV 2 Peter 2:12
12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;
BURNT UP
KJV Matthew 3:12
12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.
KJV Matthew 13:30
30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
KJV Hebrews 6:8
8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.
KJV Malachi 4:1-3
1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.
CONSUMED
KJV Isaiah 1:28
28 And the destruction of the transgressors and of the sinners shall be together, and they that forsake the LORD shall be consumed.
KJV Psalms 37:20
20 But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.
KJV Psalms 104:35
35 Let the sinners be consumed out of the earth, and let the wicked be no more. Bless thou the LORD, O my soul. Praise ye the LORD.
DEVOURED
KJV Psalms 21:9
9 Thou shalt make them as a fiery oven in the time of thine anger: the LORD shall swallow them up in his wrath, and the fire shall devour them.
KJV Hebrews 10:27
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
KJV Revelation 20:9
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
CUT OFF FROM THE EARTH
KJV Psalms 37:2, 9, 22, 28, 34, 38
2 For they shall soon be cut down like the grass, and wither as the green herb.
9 For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the LORD, they shall inherit the earth.
22 For such as be blessed of him shall inherit the earth; and they that be cursed of him shall be cut off.
28 For the LORD loveth judgment, and forsaketh not his saints; they are preserved for ever: but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off.
34 Wait on the LORD, and keep his way, and he shall exalt thee to inherit the land: when the wicked are cut off, thou shalt see it.
38 But the transgressors shall be destroyed together: the end of the wicked shall be cut off.
KJV Proverbs 2:22
22 But the wicked shall be cut off from the earth, and the transgressors shall be rooted out of it.
PERDITION... UTTER RUIN
KJV Hebrews 10:39
39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
KJV 2 Peter 3:7
7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
CEASE TO EXIST
KJV Psalms 37:10
10 For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be.

 

[Jack]

DESTRUCTION
KJV Psalms 145:20
20 The LORD preserveth all them that love him: but all the wicked will he destroy.
KJV Psalms 101:8
8 I will early destroy all the wicked of the land; that I may cut off all wicked doers from the city of the LORD.
KJV Psalms 37:38
38 But the transgressors shall be destroyed together: the end of the wicked shall be cut off.
KJV Psalms 92:7
7 When the wicked spring as the grass, and when all the workers of iniquity do flourish; it is that they shall be destroyed for ever:
KJV Proverbs 13:13
13 Whoso despiseth the word shall be destroyed: but he that feareth the commandment shall be rewarded.
KJV Proverbs 10:29
29 The way of the LORD is strength to the upright: but destruction shall be to the workers of iniquity.
KJV Philippians 3:19
19 Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.)
KJV 1 Timothy 6:9
9 But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition.
KJV 2 Thessalonians 1:9
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
KJV Matthew 7:13
13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
PERISH
KJV Psalms 37:20
20 But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.
KJV Proverbs 19:9
9 A false witness shall not be unpunished, and he that speaketh lies shall perish.
KJV Luke 13:3
3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
KJV John 3:16
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
KJV 2 Thessalonians 2:10
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
KJV 2 Peter 2:12
12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;
BURNT UP
KJV Matthew 3:12
12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.
KJV Matthew 13:30
30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
KJV Hebrews 6:8
8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.
KJV Malachi 4:1-3
1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.
CONSUMED
KJV Isaiah 1:28
28 And the destruction of the transgressors and of the sinners shall be together, and they that forsake the LORD shall be consumed.
KJV Psalms 37:20
20 But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.
KJV Psalms 104:35
35 Let the sinners be consumed out of the earth, and let the wicked be no more. Bless thou the LORD, O my soul. Praise ye the LORD.
DEVOURED
KJV Psalms 21:9
9 Thou shalt make them as a fiery oven in the time of thine anger: the LORD shall swallow them up in his wrath, and the fire shall devour them.
KJV Hebrews 10:27
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
KJV Revelation 20:9
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
CUT OFF FROM THE EARTH
KJV Psalms 37:2, 9, 22, 28, 34, 38
2 For they shall soon be cut down like the grass, and wither as the green herb.
9 For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the LORD, they shall inherit the earth.
22 For such as be blessed of him shall inherit the earth; and they that be cursed of him shall be cut off.
28 For the LORD loveth judgment, and forsaketh not his saints; they are preserved for ever: but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off.
34 Wait on the LORD, and keep his way, and he shall exalt thee to inherit the land: when the wicked are cut off, thou shalt see it.
38 But the transgressors shall be destroyed together: the end of the wicked shall be cut off.
KJV Proverbs 2:22
22 But the wicked shall be cut off from the earth, and the transgressors shall be rooted out of it.
PERDITION... UTTER RUIN
KJV Hebrews 10:39
39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
KJV 2 Peter 3:7
7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
CEASE TO EXIST
KJV Psalms 37:10
10 For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be.

Why don't you take it one or two verses at at time? Smokescreen, that's why!

 

[Brakelite]

As usual you avoid quoting Scripture.

Why don't you take it one or two verses at at time?

Nuh. Why don't you simply explain why you disagree with them.

 

[Jack]

Nuh. Why don't you simply explain why you disagree with them.

Which one? You want me to pick one? I can do that or you can if you're right.

 

[St. SteVen]

... rather than your interpretation which immortalises sin and sinners. It frankly shocks me that seemingly mature Christians, even after being given scriptural evidence, think so little of their God that they seek to attribute to Him a character reflective of the worst of tyrants and despots.

Exactly!
That's what the hell doctrine does. Trashes the character of God.
Most Christians believe we are held to a higher moral standard than God holds himself to.
"Love your enemies, while I incinerate mine."

 

[CadyandZoe]

Can't resist talking to me? LOL That is OK, I am kind of irresistible. LOL

When you are debating something in a text form the whole perspective cannot be presented all at once, so it is easy to lose sight of the whole.

It is true that humans be humans....if there is no ramifications for sins there is little concern.
But no, Christianity is not all about the fear of Hell.

And in the deeper context the fire of Hell, the torture of Hell, and the horrors of Hell, may not be imaginable by the human mind. Same thing goes for Heaven, can we comprehend Heaven? This is a question now....not necessarily a fact....

Is it possible they chose the image of fire because it was the worst thing that the people would understand? God has to convey information to us at the level that we can understand. It is at least as bad as fire, but they could not describe some thing worse than fire and burning in fire for eternity. Maybe it is a lot worse than fire! That is only speculation. But the eternal aspect of Hell is a fact.

Now if you are like the Jehovah Witnesses and do not believe that Yeshua is a God then you have no hope of salvation. You are simply not saved.

If you do not believe in Hell....as in an eternal fiery torment.....and you keep it to yourself....You would just be surprised in the end when you found out the truth. You could be saved....just shocked. But if you preach there is no eternal fiery punishment then you are preaching a lie. And according to the Bible you are cursed. If you read post 790 you will see that Christianity never heard of your belief....it is a relatively new heresy.

Then if you get some to believe like you do and they act on it in such away that it leads them to Hell, you are responsible. Preaching a lie and responsible for lost souls.

Not everyone has been involved with Christianity or raised in a Christian family their whole life. Some come to Christ a complete mess. Loving their sinful life style...it can be anything from drugs to homosexuality, to child molestation. And they may like that lifestyle. If you get them to believe that the punishment is not all that bad, they may call it an acceptable choice, an acceptable trade off and continue their sinful lifestyle...in the end they will find out that Hell is real and they will be punished with unimaginable agony for eternity....and you caused it. So then you could be punished...even worse than them. How many people will you lead to Hell? How many levels does Hell have and what is the worst? Do you want to find out?

Bottom line your beliefs are a lie and no good can come of it.

I know the truth and my best advice to you is to repent. But my ministry is not like a preacher…not my responisbilty to get you to believe…I am the Johnny Appleseed of Truth that is my minstry….my ministry works like Christ described as casting seeds of truth. My responsibility is to know the truth and give the truth….not my responsibility if you do not believe the truth. My duty is done, the rest is between you and God and you and God will settle up in the end.

Do you honestly believe that the basis of salvation is making the right lifestyle choices? Do you honestly believe that if, after hearing a hell-fire and brimstone sermon, a person gives up drugs such a person is worthy of salvation? Do you honestly believe that salvation is simply a matter of buying fire insurance or an asbestos suit? Do you honestly not understand what salvation is?

 

[Jack]

Exactly!
That's what the hell doctrine does. Trashes the character of God.
Most Christians believe we are held to a higher moral standard than God holds himself to.
"Love your enemies, while I incinerate mine."

Jesus trashes God? Oh my!

Matthew 18
8 If your hand or foot causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you. It is better for you to enter into life lame or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet, to be cast into the everlasting fire. 9 And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you. It is better for you to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire.

 

[Grailhunter]

Do you honestly believe that the basis of salvation is making the right lifestyle choices? Do you honestly believe that if, after hearing a hell-fire and brimstone sermon, a person gives up drugs such a person is worthy of salvation? Do you honestly believe that salvation is simply a matter of buying fire insurance or an asbestos suit? Do you honestly not understand what salvation is?

Free-will
And yes you can sin your way out of salvation and to Hell.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Free-will
And yes you can sin your way out of salvation and to Hell.

Those who are under threat of injury or pain are not free. They are slaves to the torturer.

Consider Romans 8:15

For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons and daughters by which we cry out, “Abba! Father!”​

Do you understand what Paul said here? I wonder. Living in constant fear of eternal torture is a spirit of slavery. Paul repudiates that spirit. We are adopted sons, no longer under the whip. Instead, we cry out "Abba Father."

Did you learn nothing from what Jesus said to Simon?
Do you honestly believe that the woman washed Jesus' feet with her tears because she was under mental coercion? Seriously?

True Christians believe in righteousness for righteousness' sake. We obey God because doing so is good in and of itself. God is our Father, not our slave owner. And as a father, he is teaching his children to do the right thing because it's the right thing to do. A good Father would not threaten his child with a serious danger in order to coerce the child to obey. That's called child abuse. A good husband does not threaten his wife with serious danger in order to coerce her to obey. That would be domestic abuse.

That picture is as far from Biblical teaching as the darkness is away from the light.

 

[Grailhunter]

Those who are under threat of injury or pain are not free. They are slaves to the torturer.

Consider Romans 8:15

For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons and daughters by which we cry out, “Abba! Father!”​

Do you understand what Paul said here? I wonder. Living in constant fear of eternal torture is a spirit of slavery. Paul repudiates that spirit. We are adopted sons, no longer under the whip. Instead, we cry out "Abba Father."

Did you learn nothing from what Jesus said to Simon?
Do you honestly believe that the woman washed Jesus' feet with her tears because she was under mental coercion? Seriously?

True Christians believe in righteousness for righteousness' sake. We obey God because doing so is good in and of itself. God is our Father, not our slave owner. And as a father, he is teaching his children to do the right thing because it's the right thing to do. A good Father would not threaten his child with a serious danger in order to coerce the child to obey. That's called child abuse. A good husband does not threaten his wife with serious danger in order to coerce her to obey. That would be domestic abuse.

That picture is as far from Biblical teaching as the darkness is away from the light.

Still talking to me!

I was very young when I started this ministry....gifted child....reading the Bible at 6 years old....
Why did I start my ministry....And at first it was just about figuring it out. My mom was Catholic and an intellectual, My dad was Southern Baptist and well versed with the Bible. Gospel Blue Grass was the rule of the day with a house full of friends and family.

So they would debate and I decided to figure it out....by the time I was ten years old I could beat them in a debate.

So I started to set myself up some ground rules for finding the Truth....
1. Truth is important and the Key to figuring it all out.
2. You cannot care what the Truth is, it does not matter if you like it or not.
3. Preconceived notions go in the trash.
4. So the Bible teaches you....You do not teach the Bible. Which means you do not go to the Bible trying to find the scriptures that support what you believe. See #3

So Christianity is not about what you like or do not like or what scares you. It is not about what you think it should be....that can lead to sin. There was a time when people would take things out of the scriptures that they thought should not be there and put things in there that they thought should be there....LOL Now a days they just twist the scriptures to what they like.

When you talk to a JW or someone that has like beliefs it is a waste of time to give them scriptures because only the scriptures they like are going to matter to them. Which is one of the reasons I believe you and I do not need to continue this discussion. I and others have given you all the scriptures that you need to get back on the right path...what else is there to say. The Old English word was obdurate ....meaning in this case....you are going to sin no matter what the scriptures say.....You are going to believe what you believe no matter what the scriptures say.....and the rest you will twist to conform to your beliefs.

So to address some of the things you mentioned....not that it is going to do any good...because I am wasting my time...."Slaves to torture" They looked at slavery a little differently in this period....How many times are Christians called slaves of Christ?

On the topic of eternal punishment see posts 657 and 790 I am not going to keep repeating myself...

On the topic of Christians going to Hell and burning in forever torment.....All through the scriptures Christ and the Apostles warned Christians about what could prevent them from going to Heaven and what could cause them to go to the fiery Hell of eternal punishment. I going to give you some more scriptures for what good it will do and I know you know these scriptures and have just brushed them aside..

2nd Corinthians :5:10: For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

Matthew 18:9 And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you. It is better for you to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire.

1st Corinthians 6:9-10 “Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor those habitually drunk, nor verbal abusers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God”

Galatians 5:19-21 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: sexual immorality, impurity, indecent behavior, idolatry, witchcraft, hostilities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions, envy, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Matthew 7:22-23 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

1st John:3:8: the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil.

Matthew 7:21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

Hebrews 10:26-31
26: For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27: But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. 28: He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: 29: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? 30: For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. 31: It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

 

[Marymog]

Not once did you actually address anything I said......

The pot calling the kettle black? Oh my....

 

[Keiw]

As usual you avoid quoting Scripture. Do you need Kingdom Hall's permission to quote Scripture? Let me help you.

Psalm 45
7 You love righteousness and hate wickedness; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.

I wonder if you have even read the Bible!

I know what it says-you dont-His companions are angels. That is why Jesus has a God just like us. Its not calling Jesus God, its calling God, God. Its teaching truth-Jesus has a God, he is a created angel being, he is Michael.
Heb 1:4 backs it up- He is only better than the angels because his God gave him a name above theirs. You can understand English cant you.

 

[Jack]

I know what it says-you dont-His companions are angels. That is why Jesus has a God just like us. Its not calling Jesus God, its calling God, God.

You do struggle with English!

'Therefore God, Your God'

Its teaching truth-Jesus has a God, he is a created angel being, he is Michael.
Heb 1:4 backs it up- He is only better than the angels because his God gave him a name above theirs. You can understand English cant you.

Jesus is my Savior. Not Michael. Michael is 'one of the chief princes'.

Daniel 10
13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me twenty-one days; and behold, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, for I had been left alone there with the kings of Persia.

 

[Keiw]

You do struggle with English!

'Therefore God, Your God'

Jesus is my Savior. Not Michael. Michael is 'one of the chief princes'.

Daniel 10
13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me twenty-one days; and behold, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, for I had been left alone there with the kings of Persia.

Michael is the archangel-the only archangel mentioned in Gods word. God sent his best. 1Thess 4:16--Upon Jesus return, he comes with the trumpet of God( announcing his ride =(Rev 6:1), and with the voice of the archangel--its his voice. Michael did not loan his voice out. Rev 6:1 is the war in heaven-Michael took that ride, yet 6:2 says he receives his crown. Only Jesus is getting the crown, the continuation of the ride of the white horse=Rev 19:11= Armageddon, Jesus riding the white horse, its the same ride, it ends here-1Cor 15:24-28 when Jesus hands the kingdom back to his God and Father and subjects himself forever.

 

[Jack]

Michael is the archangel-the only archangel mentioned in Gods word.

LOL!

Daniel 10
13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me twenty-one days; and behold, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, for I had been left alone there with the kings of Persia.

God sent his best. 1Thess 4:16--Upon Jesus return, he comes with the trumpet of God( announcing his ride =(Rev 6:1), and with the voice of the archangel--its his voice. Michael did not loan his voice out. Rev 6:1 is the war in heaven-Michael took that ride, yet 6:2 says he receives his crown. Only Jesus is getting the crown, the continuation of the ride of the white horse=Rev 19:11= Armageddon, Jesus riding the white horse, its the same ride, it ends here-1Cor 15:24-28 when Jesus hands the kingdom back to his God and Father and subjects himself forever.

If you had bothered to read the NT you would see that ONLY Jesus is mentioned as the Christian Savior. NO MICHAEL!

Acts 4
10 let it be known to you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead, by Him this man stands here before you whole. 11 This is the 'stone which was rejected by you builders, which has become the chief cornerstone.' 12 Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved."

Now show us where Michael is called our Savior. You can't!

 

[Keiw]

LOL!

Daniel 10
13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me twenty-one days; and behold, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, for I had been left alone there with the kings of Persia.

If you had bothered to read the NT you would see that ONLY Jesus is mentioned as the Christian Savior. NO MICHAEL!

Acts 4
10 let it be known to you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead, by Him this man stands here before you whole. 11 This is the 'stone which was rejected by you builders, which has become the chief cornerstone.' 12 Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved."

Now show us where Michael is called our Savior. You can't!

Michael is the one standing up for Gods chosen here in these last days-Dan 12:1--He is Jesus.

 

[Jack]

Michael is the one standing up for Gods chosen here in these last days-Dan 12:1--He is Jesus.

Let's try again.

"Michael, one of the chief princes"

 

[Brakelite]

Again Christianity never gave any indication they even knew of such a belief. LOL This is just too stupid! The funny thing is if some one came delaring such a moronic thing in the Middle Ages, they would have been declared witches and burnt at the stake LOL

And again it is a relatively new heracy, complete with its own Bible.
We have talked about this enough
I feel like I am walking through a cesspool!
Good luck

How can anyone burn forever in the lake of fire unless they are given eternal life?
For God's so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16.
KJV 1 John 5:12
12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
Your insistence on eternal torment utterly contradicts the most well known verse in scripture,
He that hath not the Son, hath not life.

I do not understand how blind people can be when they desire so much to make God in their own image. Even to the point of believing the complete opposite to what scripture declares so openly and so plainly.

 

[Brakelite]

Again Christianity never gave any indication they even knew of such a belief

I will give you just 2 answers that refute the above...
Ezekiel...KJV Ezekiel 18:4
4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

KJV Romans 6:23
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Jesus is the propitiation for sin. He died in our place. He did not suffer eternal torment.