The Judgement of Nations: Millennium Proof

[ewq1938]

True. To be more specific, the dead in Christ will have their dead bodies resurrected, and them alive will be instantly changed to immortal.

They al then rise to meet the Lord in the air together.

Well, the dead will follow Christ as he descends to the clouds.

1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Not in your fantasy bible of unsurpassed despite for all people not like yourself:

For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another.

When the unbelievers do by nature, what is commanded by God, then they are judged as doing right by the Lord.

As I said, unbelievers are never referred to as "the righteous" in scripture. That is a fact. Trying to say otherwise makes me wonder about what you actually believe. I'm wondering if maybe you follow some other religion than Christianity if you think someone can be considered righteous in God's eyes without being a Christian. Only the blood of Christ covering someone's sins can make someone righteous in God's eyes.

When Jesus used the Samaritan as a good example of loving our neighbors. He did so on purpose, to show His own people, that doing good is not reserved solely to those that confess His name.

Although you would never care for a sick Muslim, there are kindly people who care for others, no matter what their religious affiliation.

Who in the world do you think you are? Where are you getting this ridiculous idea that I "would never care for a sick Muslim"? Yes, I most certainly would. How else can we lead people to Christ except for showing our love to them? You are way out of line here. You are making yourself out to be God by judging me like this. Have you never read where Jesus told us not to judge others? Why are you judging me?

It's called common compassion and natural feeling for others, whether human or animal.

Who told you that I don't have that?

Being OSAS, it's no surprise you saying all believers are saved and justified by faith alone, and so can never again be condemned with the wicked, even when do evil.

I'm not OSAS. Where do you come up with these things? You continually misrepresent what I believe which shows that you don't actually have a clue as to what I and other Amils actually believe. So, you end up wasting a lot of time making straw man arguments. You can't get that time back. There are countless better things you can do with your time than making arguments against things that the person you're talking to doesn't even believe.

The sinful believers left on earth after the resurrection into the air, will either repent or be judged guilty along with the rest of the goats.

Where does scripture indicate that anyone will have the chance to repent once Jesus comes again? Nowhere. That is a lie that Satan would love people to believe because it could lead them to think that they can just wait until then to repent even though scripture teaches that TODAY is the day of salvation. People need to repent TODAY because there's no guarantee that tomorrow will come.

And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

He will judge the nations.

Since when does scripture teach that nations will receive "eternal life" (Matt 25:46) in the kingdom prepared for them from the foundation of the world (Matt 25:34)? Since when does scripture teach that nations will be cast "into everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels"? You are interpreting Matthew 25:31-46 in such a way that contradicts many other scriptures which talk about INDIVIDUALS being judged in the way that is described in that passage. Is that not of any concern to you?

 

[robert derrick]

Well, the dead will follow Christ as he descends to the clouds.

1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

It's a fair point of course.

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

And so, how to reconcile the Scriptures is the task at hand. And so, the real question is not whether they descend to be resurrected with their bodies on earth, and then rise bodily into the air.

The question is, are they seen by man with the Lord Himself, and the answer to that is in the fact, that it is God Who brings their souls with the Lord.

It is God the invisible Spirit, that brings the souls of the righteous with the Lord, who are also unseen. No natural eye on earth can see the Spirit nor the souls of men.

It is the same Spirit, that raises their souls unseen to the presence of the Lord, that brings their souls unseen with the Lord, to receive their resurrected dead bodies.

And so, the conclusion is every eye shall see the Lord bodily descending, even as Scripture says, but not the souls of them brought with Him by God.

The resurrected and changed saints will only be seen by man, once they are standing immortally on earth in a moment of time, and that is when every eye shall also see them all ascend bodily to meet with the Lord in the air. Even as the two witnesses in Rev 11.

The souls of the dead in Christ are not seen ascending by the Spirit into the presence of the Lord in heaven, nor descending to the earth with Him to receive their resurrected bodies.

And so, it's not angels that now carry the souls of the righteous into heaven, as they did into hell with Abraham. We know this, because it is the same Spirit by Whom the soul of Jesus went to preach to them in prison. And the same Spirit therefore by Whom He rose from to resurrect His own body from the tomb.

However, I would not say say the dead are brought with Him, since the souls are alive with Christ in His presence, even as the righteous in Christ are now on earth.

I always appreciate a good challenge of Scripture, because it means there is something more to learn about the truth found in all Scripture, as we see here.

Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

I believe many Christians waste time looking for newly revealed truth by the Spirit's voice alone, and some get seriously twisted up in it. I say that the search for all truth is found in the Spirit's guiding into all Scripture of truth. Especially when showing how no Scripture contradicts another.

So thanks much for this fruit yielded by your good challenge.

 

[robert derrick]

As I said, unbelievers are never referred to as "the righteous" in scripture.

I show Scripture saying otherwise. But, hey, it's your prophecy, so you can fill it with whatever you want.

I'm wondering if maybe you follow some other religion than Christianity if you think someone can be considered righteous in God's eyes without being a Christian.

I'll not report you this time. Moderators don't care how you cloke accusing others of not being saved Christians.

Only warning you get.

It's not that I care about your petty opinions, but it's just a waste of my time. Stick to the argument at hand.

Only the blood of Christ covering someone's sins can make someone righteous in God's eyes.

This of course is more OSAS teaching the blood of the Lamb is the same as a bull or goat.

The blood of Jesus Christ now washes our sins away, and does not just cover them for another year, until the high priest's next sacrifice for the errors of the people.

Who in the world do you think you are? Where are you getting this ridiculous idea that I "would never care for a sick Muslim"?

By your manner of spirit seen in your prophecy of all flesh, being wiped out at the Lord's return.

And since you say otherwise, then I accept it. I'm glad to hear it.

Yes, I most certainly would. How else can we lead people to Christ except for showing our love to them?

However, I can say your charity is not pure, since you mix it with proselytizing.

The good example of the Samaritan says nothing of trying to recruit to his religion. We are simply to have charity to one another freely, without strings attached, whether spiritual, physical, or ministerial.

There are Christian sects, just as Muslim sects, that only show any neighborliness to others, in order to get them into their own religion.

You are way out of line here. You are making yourself out to be God by judging me like this.

I accept the rebuke. You stop talking about others' Christian salvation, and I'll stop talking about others' charitableness.

Have you never read where Jesus told us not to judge others?

We are not to judge others hypocritically by appearance, but to judge righteously by deeds.

Who told you that I don't have that?

You certainly make a prophecy of it at the Lord's return.

Scripture shows otherwise.

I'm not OSAS.

Fine. You just teach it.

Where do you come up with these things? You continually misrepresent what I believe which shows that you don't actually have a clue as to what I

OSAS teaches: All believers are saved and justified by faith alone, and once saved, no born again Christian can ever be condemned with the unbelievers, even when committing a sinful work of the flesh like them.

You disagree?

Must we have works of faith to be justified by Christ?

and other Amils actually believe.

You're not amil. You're pseudo-mil. Amils don't believe in any reigning of Christ and His saints on earth. You teach a lame spirit-only mil today.

Even your own tag shows the error of spirit-only doctrine and prophecy.

We are the Israel of God on earth bodily. Not by circumcision of the flesh anymore, but of the heart by the Spirit and circumcision of Christ. And that circumcision is seen by our works of faith and righteousness.

There is no such thing as spirit-only, even as faith-only is dead.

So let's just conclude the matter:

Since you say you are already 'spiritually' resurrected and reigning with Christ in heaven and on earth, is there any way for you not to have part in the bodily resurrection unto life with Christ forever?

Since when does scripture teach that nations will receive "eternal life" (Matt 25:46) in the kingdom prepared for them from the foundation of the world (Matt 25:34)? Since when does scripture teach that nations will be cast "into everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels"?

Already corrected this, and as usual you just skip the correction and repeat yourself.

You are interpreting Matthew 25:31-46 in such a way that contradicts many other scriptures which talk about INDIVIDUALS being judged in the way that is described in that passage. Is that not of any concern to you?

I have no regard for your prophecy nor interpretation of Scripture.

 

[robert derrick]

Where does scripture indicate that anyone will have the chance to repent once Jesus comes again? Nowhere.

And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory. (Rev 16)

This makes almost a dozen times you have plainly contradicted Scripture. The reason is obvious. You don't care about what Scripture says, when it comes to your prophecy.

You don't even care enough about knowing what Scripture says, in order not to openly contradict it, when teaching your false prophecy.

And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

God will even have an angel preaching His gospel in the air up to the last moment, that men might still repent and be saved.

That is a lie that Satan would love people to believe because it could lead them to think that they can just wait until then to repent even though scripture teaches that TODAY is the day of salvation.

True, it's foolish to wait for a convenient time to repent, as did Felix, but you see how your love for your own prophecy, makes you show it is of the devil, since you now say Scripture of God is a lie of Satan.

People need to repent TODAY because there's no guarantee that tomorrow will come.

True. But unto the end of this age at the Lord's return to earth, God says His everlasting gospel will still be preached for all men to repent.

Which you say is a lie of Satan.

You see how your manner of spirit and prophecy compels someone to question any charity in your heart? You prophecy the Lord returns not to save any, but only to condemn the world and destroy all flesh.

It';s what the Jews wanted, when they rejected Jesus the first time. Your prophecy is what they are still looking for. There is a christ coming who will appear to be satisfying your prophecy and that of the unbelieving Jews, but he will be the last great false christ to come on earth.

That's neither the doctrine of Christ, nor the prophecy of His coming again to earth. It's only what you want to happen and see for yourself, but of course without getting your own hands dirty in the process.

 

[WPM]

I'll not report you this time. Moderators don't care how you cloke accusing others of not being saved Christians.

Only warning you get.

It's not that I care about your petty opinions, but it's just a waste of my time. Stick to the argument at hand.

Who do think you are with your infantile threats? You talk as if we care about these or take you seriously. Keep your foolishness to yourself. Your threats are a joke! People know the games you are playing. It is time to grow up and get real!

 

[WPM]

You're not amil. You're pseudo-mil. Amils don't believe in any reigning of Christ and His saints on earth. You teach a lame spirit-only mil today.

... and you are yet to show us one single verse in Rev 20 where Jesus is on earth during the millennial period. That because it is nonsense. It is a figment of your imagination. Your teachers have taught you wrong.

 

[ewq1938]

It's a fair point of course.

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

And so, how to reconcile the Scriptures is the task at hand. And so, the real question is not whether they descend to be resurrected with their bodies on earth, and then rise bodily into the air.

The saved don't go back to their own bodies. They have new bodies. The passage you quote speaks of the dead rising first, then the living being caught up with "them in the clouds". The "them in the clouds" are the dead, who resurrected in heaven and followed Christ down to the clouds.


2Co 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2Co 5:2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:

The new body is in heaven! Here Paul uses an analogy of a building, house and tabernacle to represent a physical body. One of these is an "earthly house" meaning the mortal flesh body we are born into and then a heavenly house which is in heaven that represents the new immortal body. This speaks of when a saved humans body dies (dissolved) that there is another body in heaven waiting for them and the time of Resurrection. There is nothing in the passage about the person's spirit returning to their dissolved/dead body and it being brought back to life. Paul speaks of a different body that already exists in heaven.
Paul knew he wasn't returning to his old body.

He speaks of the mortal body being dissolved and a new body that is waiting in heaven. Clearly that is not bringing the dissolved body back to life and changing it which would eliminate the need for the new body in heaven that he mentions.

2Co 5:3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
2Co 5:4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

Paul writes that he desires to be clothed with the house from Heaven and says it is eternal in Heaven. That's the resurrected body and it is from heaven not from the Earth nor from an Earthly grave.

 

[robert derrick]

The saved don't go back to their own bodies. They have new bodies.

True: They are not the same old dead mortal bodies, but are the newly resurrected bodies from the old, even as the inner new man of the soul is born again from the sinful man of old. Same soul and body, both created new by resurrection from the dead.

At this point, by saying 'resurrected' bodies are not the old from the graves, but are new and entirely different immortal bodies already in heaven, you are doctrinally teaching the resurrection is past.

But of course, there is no 'resurrection' of the old, where there is only entirely new and different creations. It's the same for the new heaven and earth, which is not a 'resurrection' at all, especially not a resurrection of the old heaven and earth, as some try to teach.

You can call it what you want, such as new bodily creations in heaven, but not' resurrected' bodies in heaven, which does not apply to resurrection at all, and would be teaching the resurrection is past.

It's the same error of teaching a spirit-only resurrection, which is not a resurrection without the body. Newly created bodies completely different from the old, is not a resurrection at all.

 

[robert derrick]

The passage you quote speaks of the dead rising first,

If you are saying the dead rising first, is when their souls first rise into the presence of the Lord, at their bodily death, then this is where God writes His word with two possible opposing readings. I say He does this on purpose at times, as a double-edged sword, in order to try our faith in His written word. As well as test our discipline in turning to the context of all Scripture, in order to rightly divide the correct reading from the untrue.

1. The dead shall rise first is future, not past, nor present. The dead rising has not happened yet. This shows that the souls being in the presence of the Lord, is not a 'rising' into heaven. Even as new different bodies in heaven is not a 'resurrection'.
2. The dead must be the dead bodies, because the souls rising into the Lord's presence, are not dead but living forever.
3. The context is of assuring the living saints on earth, that they will not prevent them that are asleep from rising from the graves, but changing first before they rise.
4. Once again, them that sleep in Christ are the dead bodies in the graves. The souls rising into the presence of the Lord are neither dead nor asleep, but waiting speaking with the Lord at His altar in heaven. They are asking how long before they receive their resurrected bodies from the dead.
5. Daniel 12 proves the resurrection of the dead, is the dead bodies asleep awaking and arising from the dust of the earth unto judgment.
6. Knowing that he which raised up the Lord Jesus shall raise up us also by Jesus, and shall present us with you.

There is no difference here between any saint, that are raised up by Jesus from the dead: they all are presented together to Him a chaste virgin and body of Christ.

The conclusion is that all saints shall rise to meet Him and be presented to Him in the air, and the only ones waiting for the others are them alive and remaining, not the dead waiting in the air for the alive.

At this point, it must be acknowledged that our Head and Forerunner has the resurrected body, that died on the cross.

For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

This is plainly speaking of our own bodies being planted the same in the dust, as Jesus' dead body was. And so our own dead bodies will be resurrected unto life, the same as Jesus' body now is.

Like as He died bodily, so shall we. Like as His dead body was resurrected, so shall ours. The likeness is the same in manner.

The manner of Jesus' resurrected body, was not leaving His old dead body int he tomb. Neither shall ours. Both His life and His resurrection, are our example. The Head and Forerunner is not resurrected with old dead body, and the members of His body are not.

That is two different manners of resurrection, where one is the dead body, and the others are not a resurrection at all.

 

[robert derrick]

then the living being caught up with "them in the clouds". The "them in the clouds" are the dead,

Once again, this is another example to two opposing readings of the same Scripture, that requires context of all Scripture to rightly divide them as true or false.

1. Once again, the context is that of the living not preventing the dead from being caught up together into the air.

who resurrected in heaven and followed Christ down to the clouds.

Once again, since you say they already have their resurrected bodies, then you teach the resurrection is past.

2Co 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2Co 5:2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:

The new body is in heaven! Here Paul uses an analogy of a building, house and tabernacle to represent a physical body.

Now, this is not so much as two different readings, but rather of two different understanding of grammar.

Based on a doctrine, the grammar is fused into one, so that our earthly house is our tabernacle and temple body.

But, once again, the context shows our earthly house is not our tabernacle body, but is the earth itself in which our bodies inhabit. The earth is the home of all mortal flesh created by God.

1. The context is of a building of God, whose Builder and Maker is God: New Jerusalem.

For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

That city is eternal in the heavens even now.

But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

That city will come down from heaven upon the new earth. (Rev 21) That house we desire to be clothed upon, that is from heaven, not new bodies in heaven.

Paul is speaking of the new heaven and earth, with New Jeruslaem being our city and house from heaven.

2. The mortal bodies are never spoken of as being dissolved with the this heaven and earth. That is applied only by a doctrine of no resurrected dead bodies, other than the Lord's. It's not applied to bodies in 2 Peter 3.

Rev 20 shows the rest of the dead live again after the Millennium, and they are given up from the earth, before heaven and earth passes away in Rev 21.

For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

Yea, I think it meet, as long as I am in this tabernacle, to stir you up by putting you in remembrance;

Knowing that shortly I must put off this my tabernacle, even as our Lord Jesus Christ hath shewed me.

It is the tabernacle that is the body, not a house. The body is also an earthen vessel and temple, not a house.

the earthly house of our tabernacle body, shall be dissolved, not the tabernacle body, which shall be resurrected from the dust of the earth, before this world is melted in fervent heat, whether unto everlasting life or shame.

 

[robert derrick]

There is nothing in the passage about the person's spirit returning to their dissolved/dead body and it being brought back to life.

Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.

Nothing here about his body being dissolved.

Therefore my heart is glad, and my glory rejoiceth: my flesh also shall rest in hope.

And here, David speaks of his own body with the same hope of our bodies, and that of Jesus.

Our dead flesh rests in hope of resurrection from the dead. It is proof Scripture for our bodies being at rest in the grave, even as our souls are at rest in the presence of the Lord.

And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

Both our bodies and souls rest in hope of resurrection from the dead unto life.

Dissolved flesh in the grave without hope, is false.

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Neither bodies nor souls of man are ever dissolved. Or, if one is, then so is the other.

Dissolved bodies and souls into oblivion is also false.

For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:

And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God: Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me.

Job is specific, that he is speaking of 'this' body, that shall see his Redeemer with these eyes and this flesh, that he suffers and speaks in, after that body, flesh, and eyes go to the grave.

Paul speaks of a different body that already exists in heaven.

Not, while still living on earth, and he still had hopes of being alive and remaining at the Lord's return. Which was the same hope for them standing and watching for Him to do so, after He ascended with a cloud.

Angels had to tap them on the shoulder, and tell them to do what Jesus said, and go back to Jerusalem.

And once again, if any saint has already received their resurrected immortal body, then the resurrection is past.

Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

You can call it something else, but not a resurrection of the dead. A newly created different body was not ever dead, nor is it resurrected.

At this point, I have to wonder why you insist on a spiritual immortal body already being made new for souls in heaven.

Are they only created at the death of the body on earth? Or when born again?

And if when born again, then can they ever be destroyed and not inhabited by the new babe in Christ?

 

[ewq1938]

At this point, by saying 'resurrected' bodies are not the old from the graves, but are new and entirely different immortal bodies already in heaven, you are doctrinally teaching the resurrection is past.

No I am not. The resurrection is future. The new body waits in heaven for that time.

Newly created bodies completely different from the old, is not a resurrection at all.

That ios wrong. You have only one concept of a resurrection and that is not a complete view. A resurrection by definition is a "standing up" and that can be done in the old body, or a new body.

 

[ewq1938]

Once again, since you say they already have their resurrected bodies, then you teach the resurrection is past.

I have never taught the dead already have their new bodies. That is a future event.

 

[robert derrick]

No I am not. The resurrection is future. The new body waits in heaven for that time.

If you say the resurrection is a new and different immortal body, and the new immortal body is already in heaven, then you say the new and different immortal body is already resurrected.

Unless you want to separate the resurrection of the body, from when the body is made immortal in heaven.

Is it therefore spirit-only waiting in heaven? Not real? Not yet in the resurrection?

That ios wrong. You have only one concept of a resurrection and that is not a complete view. A resurrection by definition is a "standing up" and that can be done in the old body, or a new body.

I don't argue with carnal definition of words. This isn't a course in Greek-English lexicon.

God's use of men's words in Scripture, is how His truth is taught.

God's use of resurrection always has to do with the bodily resurrection of the dead: bodies from the dust of the earth, beginning with Jesus' own body from the tomb.

At this time, you're not responding to my arguments of Scripture.

Jesus is our forerunning example of the resurrection of the dead body, and us being likewise resurrected with Him.

Once your immortal body is made in heaven, can you not ever recieve it?

 

[ewq1938]

If you say the resurrection is a new and different immortal body, and the new immortal body is already in heaven, then you say the new and different immortal body is already resurrected.

Wrong. The resurrection of the dead is when bodiless souls receive their new bodies which happens at the second coming only.

Unless you want to separate the resurrection of the body, from when the body is made immortal in heaven.

Is it therefore spirit-only waiting in heaven? Not real? Not yet in the resurrection?

See above.

I don't argue with carnal definition of words. This isn't a course in Greek-English lexicon.

So you want to make up your own definition and avoid the actual definition?

God's use of resurrection always has to do with the bodily resurrection of the dead: bodies from the dust of the earth,

That is one type of resurrection but not the only. Did Lazarus rise from "the dust"? No, his body had not yet returned to it. Others rise from the sea (Rev 20). Still others will resurrect in heaven with the new body Paul said was in heaven.

At this time, you're not responding to my arguments of Scripture.

Jesus is our forerunning example of the resurrection of the dead body, and us being likewise resurrected with Him.

His body also did not rot away into the dust like most of the bodies of the dead have. Your understanding of resurrection is very limited.

Once your immortal body is made in heaven, can you not ever recieve it?

The question is nonsensical.

 

[robert derrick]

Wrong. The resurrection of the dead is when bodiless souls receive their new bodies which happens at the second coming only.

And so soulless bodies, are waiting for bodiless souls?

That is one type of resurrection but not the only.

So, you are teaching a resurrection, that is not of the dead.

Others rise from the sea (Rev 20).

True. Rev 20 adds the sea and hell to the dust. Just to make sure no one can provide exemptions of the dead being resurrected only from the dust.

Still others will resurrect in heaven with the new body Paul said was in heaven.

Given Scriptural arguments challenging this. You're just repeating yourself now, without addressing them.

The argument is coming to a close otherwise. I'm not a sounding board only.

His body also did not rot away into the dust like most of the bodies of the dead have. Your understanding of resurrection is very limited.

I've heard this 'science' argument elsewhere. It's based upon carnal minded molecules, not faith in the word of God.

The question is nonsensical.

The answer makes perfect sense. You say the immortal bodies are already created upon salvation, just waiting for the soul to receive it in heaven at the 'resurrection'.

So, what if the soul sins unto death instead? Or is it a kind of OSAS: once immortal body for you, immortal body must be recieved by you?

 

[ewq1938]

And so soulless bodies, are waiting for bodiless souls?

Yes.

So, you are teaching a resurrection, that is not of the dead.

No, that isn't even possible. Only the dead can have a resurrection.

True. Rev 20 adds the sea and hell to the dust. Just to make sure no one can provide exemptions of the dead being resurrected only from the dust.

The dead do not only resurrect from the dust. I have already proven that.

So, what if the soul sins unto death instead? Or is it a kind of OSAS: once immortal body for you, immortal body must be recieved by you?

I don't believe in OSAS. If a saved person loses salvation then the new body in heaven will not be given to them at their time of resurrection. They will resurrect in their old body as do all the unsaved.

 

[robert derrick]

Yes.

Fair enough.

No, that isn't even possible. Only the dead can have a resurrection.

Dead bodies. You're still calling the living souls departing the dead body, as being dead. Souls alive in Christ unto the end of the body, never die nor are dead.

There are two kinds of dead: dead souls of the wicked, and dead bodies of the grave.

Resurrection of the dead bodies is for all, whether unto life or shame.

The dead do not only resurrect from the dust. I have already proven that.

No. You've suggested a resurrection that is not of the dead. Daniel speaks of dust, and Rev 20 adds the sea and hell. Just in case, someone thinks it's only from the dust.

I don't believe in OSAS.

Just checking.

If a saved person loses salvation then the new body in heaven will not be given to them at their time of resurrection.

So, their soulless immortal body is done away with? Like a garment for the fire?

They will resurrect in their old body as do all the unsaved.

So then, now we have it. Only the dead bodies of the wicked will be resurrected. So, it has nothing to do with being from the dust, or sea, or hell, or amount of time, but only being the wicked.

And yet, Daniel says them from the dust will also be unto life. Job 14 confirms it.

Also, of course, if only the dead bodies of the wicked are resurrected, then that makes Jesus' body the first resurrection of the wicked.

 

[ewq1938]

Fair enough.

Dead bodies. You're still calling the living souls departing the dead body, as being dead. Souls alive in Christ unto the end of the body, never die nor are dead.

Not me. The bible refers to them as the dead. Yes their souls are alive but it is scriptural to also call them the dead because they did die.

1Th_4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

There are two kinds of dead: dead souls of the wicked, and dead bodies of the grave.

The souls of the wicked are alive too, according to Christ when he spoke of the rich man.

So, their soulless immortal body is done away with?

We are guessing at all of this. More than likely God already knows who shall be saved and who won't be and has the right amount of the new bodies in heaven. Are you disputing that Paul taught the new bodies are in heaven?

Also, of course, if only the dead bodies of the wicked are resurrected, then that makes Jesus' body the first resurrection of the wicked.

The first resurrection is the saved. The second resurrection is the wicked.