The Kingdom of God.... Is it within you?

[covenantee]

Jeremiah 31:28-34 KJV
28) And it shall come to pass, that like as I have watched over them, to pluck up, and to break down, and to throw down, and to destroy, and to afflict; so will I watch over them, to build, and to plant, saith the LORD.
29) In those days they shall say no more, The fathers have eaten a sour grape, and the children's teeth are set on edge.
30) But every one shall die for his own iniquity: every man that eateth the sour grape, his teeth shall be set on edge.
31) Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32) Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
33) But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34) And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

This new covenant?

To whom was this promised?

Much love!

Hebrews 8
8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

A verbatim quote of Jeremiah. Promised to the house of Israel and the house of Judah.

Fulfillment when?

Hebrews 8
6 But now...he is...
13...he hath...

Present tenses.

Already in fulfillment when written.

A return to the land conspicuously absent.

 

[marks]

A return to the land conspicuously absent.

An argument from silence?

Much love!

 

[marks]

Hebrews 8:6
But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

Is a better covenant established upon better promises,
an abrogation?

No. God will keep His promises.

Much love!

 

[covenantee]

An argument from silence?

Much love!

Show where present anywhere in the NT.

 

[covenantee]

No. God will keep His promises.

Much love!

2 Corinthians 1
20 For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.

Hebrews 8
6 But now...he is...
13...he hath...

Already kept.

 

[marks]

Already kept.

This one?

Ezekiel 39:25-29 KJV
25) Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name;
26) After that they have borne their shame, and all their trespasses whereby they have trespassed against me, when they dwelt safely in their land, and none made them afraid.
27) When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;
28) Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.
29) Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.

Remember . . . the promises are "yes" in Jesus, not "no", not "no, you won't actually be regathered", but "yes, In Christ, you will".

Much love!

 

[marks]

Show where present anywhere in the NT.

Matthew 24:29-31 KJV
29) Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30) And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31) And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Much love!

 

[Timtofly]

I’m in no way trying to mock scripture, I can’t figure out what Satan can accuse the brethren of. You haven’t directly answered this. Our sins were paid for at the cross, the Old Testament pointed to Christ even though he was the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. God’s promises are so sure that it’s as if they had already happened even though they didn’t take place yet. People weren’t allowed in heaven until after the cross, they were in Sheol.

Because Revelation 12 claims that, not me.

"And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time."

Satan is cast down at the 7th Trumpet. That is the third woe, according to the same verses that states Satan accuses the brethren day and night.

You seem to be jumping to conclusions. Obviously Jesus is sitting there defending us as well. Why would you even want to figure out what goes on in Satan's mind?

I am just pointing out what John wrote.

 

[covenantee]

Matthew 24:29-31 KJV
29) Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30) And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31) And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Much love!

No land there.

The elect is the Church. They're bound for a better country (Hebrews 11:16).

 

[covenantee]

This one?

Ezekiel 39:25-29 KJV
25) Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name;
26) After that they have borne their shame, and all their trespasses whereby they have trespassed against me, when they dwelt safely in their land, and none made them afraid.
27) When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;
28) Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.
29) Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.

Remember . . . the promises are "yes" in Jesus, not "no", not "no, you won't actually be regathered", but "yes, In Christ, you will".

Much love!

Eclipsed and transcended by promises contained in the New Covenant.

The Holy Spirit inspired Ezekiel 39:25-29. He was intimately familiar with it.

He also inspired Hebrews 8:6, in which He declared that the New Covenant is a "better covenant, which was established upon better promises."

I believe Him.

That would mean that there are promises contained in the New Covenant which are better than those in Ezekiel 39:25-29.

There is no land promise for Israel in the New Covenant.

But there is a "better country" promise for those of faith. Hebrews 11:16

That is a better promise.

2 Peter 1:4
Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

Furthermore, under the jurisprudence governing wills and testaments, which dates back to Biblical times, content from an older will/testament cannot be imposed upon a new will and testament. Such content is null and void in a new will and testament unless it is explicitly re-specified therein.

The land promise for Israel in the old will and testament is therefore null and void in the New Will and Testament.

 

[Timtofly]

Well the interesting thing is that all the conditions of the Jeremiah 31 conditional promises are met in some way in the scriptures.

How can measuring a total different reality help in measuring this reality? Perhaps you think humans have measured the earth? Well human understanding will make you think they have. That is for sure.

 

[Timtofly]

Once physically dispossessed of its land, it no longer physically qualifies as a nation.

And which land qualifies the church as a nation?

 

[covenantee]

And which land qualifies the church as a nation?

What Scripture claims that the Church has land?

 

[Timtofly]

What Scripture claims that the Church has land?

Your "scripture".

You said Israel can not be a nation unless they have land.

 

[covenantee]

Your "scripture".

You said Israel can not be a nation unless they have land.

I said that if they were dispossessed of their physical land, they no longer qualified as a physical nation.

The Church is not a physical nation. It is a spiritual nation. Physical land is irrelevant to a spiritual nation.

 

[grafted branch]

Because Revelation 12 claims that, not me.

"And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time."

Satan is cast down at the 7th Trumpet. That is the third woe, according to the same verses that states Satan accuses the brethren day and night.

You seem to be jumping to conclusions. Obviously Jesus is sitting there defending us as well. Why would you even want to figure out what goes on in Satan's mind?

I am just pointing out what John wrote.

Satan is accusing the brethren of their sins, I think we all would agree on this. Once the sins were paid for there are no longer any legitimate accusations that can be made against the brethren.

Let’s look at the idea that Satan is currently in heaven accusing the brethren day and night. 1 Peter 5:8 says Satan walks about as a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour. Satan isn’t omnipresent so he can’t be both in heaven and on earth, and since you have him still in heaven, not cast out yet, we have to assume Satan is walking around in heaven as a roaring lion.
In fact you should be in agreement with the Amill view, you think he’s in heaven and Amill think he’s in the pit. Either way Satan isn’t currently on earth deceiving the nations.

Currently it’s estimated that there are over 2.3 billion Christians in the world and there are 86,400 seconds in a 24 hour day. If each Christian commits only one sin per day then 2,300,000,000 sins divided by 86,400 seconds equals 26,620 accusations per second that Satan has to make. I’m personally guilty of more than just one sin per day, I have wrong thoughts, not patient enough, not as kind as I could’ve been, and so on. Satan surely doesn’t have enough time to be deceiving the nations if he’s in heaven making accusations, right?
Would you agree that the nations are not currently being deceived by Satan?

 

[Davidpt]

1 Peter 5:8 says Satan walks about as a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour. Satan isn’t omnipresent so he can’t be both in heaven and on earth, and since you have him still in heaven, not cast out yet, we have to assume Satan is walking around in heaven as a roaring lion.
In fact you should be in agreement with the Amill view, you think he’s in heaven and Amill think he’s in the pit. Either way Satan isn’t currently on earth deceiving the nations.

Finally a non Premil who gets it, that satan can't be in multiple places at the same time. Therefore, when he is depicted bound in the pit, he can't also be depicted as roaming around outside of the pit at the same time. That makes him omnipresent if he can since this places him in 2 different places at the same time.

Even if the pit is not literal, that does not matter, because to be depicted as chained up, locked away in a pit does not remotely describe walking freely about outside of this prison, seeking whom he might devour. These are two entirely different things.

 

[grafted branch]

Finally a non Premil who gets it, that satan can't be in multiple places at the same time. Therefore, when he is depicted bound in the pit, he can't also be depicted as roaming around outside of the pit at the same time. That makes him omnipresent if he can since this places him in 2 different places at the same time.

Even if the pit is not literal, that does not matter, because to be depicted as chained up, locked away in a pit does not remotely describe walking freely about outside of this prison, seeking whom he might devour. These are two entirely different things.

Yea, I agree. I think Satan was walking around in Babylon seeking whom he may devour. Revelation 18:2 says Babylon became the hold of every foul spirit which includes Satan.

 

[marks]

The land promise for Israel in the old will and testament is therefore null and void in the New Will and Testament.

And this is your conclusion of the matter. Nope, He won't do what He said.

Much love!

 

[covenantee]

And this is your conclusion of the matter. Nope, He won't do what He said.

Much love!

Compared to yours, "He's not allowed to write a New better Covenant established upon better promises. I want the old, decayed, vanished one."

Hebrews 8
6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.