The Last Trumpet Is Not The Seventh Trumpet.

[teleiosis]

I realize that not even clear and simple verses indicating an obvious relationship can change your mind.

Mt 23:35 And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36 I tell you the truth, all this will come upon this generation.

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What will come upon "this generation?"
All the righteous blood. What does that mean?

35 The very messengers who were beaten and killed for calling the people to repentance in the mystery of providence fill up the measure of the peoples' sin (v. 32)--viz., shedding righteous blood of God's emissaries from Abel to Zechariah (cf. Notes). Verse 35 anticipates 27:24-25: Pilate tries to evade responsibility for crucifying Jesus, and the Jews clamor for that same dreadful responsibility because of their skepticism about who Jesus is. On the question of alleged anti-Semitism, see on 26:57-68. -- Expositor's Bible Commentary on Mt 23:35

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What about the next usage of generation?

33 Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door. 34 I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.

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What things?

How about the "things" which happen at the midpoint of the one 'seven' when the abomination is set up.

Now tell me when the abomination was set in the Temple.
When did the Last Trumpet sound?
Tell me when the Day of the Lord came.
Tell me when the Trumpets of God's Wrath sounded.

Then I will say it all happened already.
However, if those things did not happen already, then they are a future promise for the generation that sees "all those things."

Paul wrote in A.D. 51 that the Day of the Lord had not yet come... so please enlighten me on what Peter was referring to in quoting Joel, because I can tell you what part of his experience was in Joel, and what part wasn't.

 

[bud02]

Mt 23:35 And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36 I tell you the truth, all this will come upon this generation.

​

What will come upon "this generation?"
All the righteous blood. What does that mean?

Well from the looks of it, it may just be the abomination. They are the Scribes and Pharisees, and it does say from Able, so since we are not in a war of flesh and blood it is not just the people, like Able, but the spirit and principality's that were behind such things. What say you. Jesus places all the Abominations in history on them and then declares desolation on them and the Temple they dwell in. that sounds like the ‘abomination of desolation,spoken of by Danial. (whoever reads, let him understand)
The people that destroyed it? The people of the prince to come.

[sup]26[/sup] “ And after the sixty-two weeks
Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;
And the people of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.
The end of it shall be with a flood,

[sup]27[/sup] Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; ----------He is Jesus
But in the middle of the week ---------------------Jesus went to the cross cut off is what Gabriel says.
He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. ------------Jesus---------Temple of no value now its useless
And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, -------------Jesus declared it desolate and you know who made it desolate. see verse 26
Even until the consummation, which is determined,
Is poured out on the desolate.”

35 The very messengers who were beaten and killed for calling the people to repentance in the mystery of providence fill up the measure of the peoples' sin (v. 32)--viz., shedding righteous blood of God's emissaries from Abel to Zechariah (cf. Notes). Verse 35 anticipates 27:24-25: Pilate tries to evade responsibility for crucifying Jesus, and the Jews clamor for that same dreadful responsibility because of their skepticism about who Jesus is. On the question of alleged anti-Semitism, see on 26:57-68. -- Expositor's Bible Commentary on Mt 23:35

Your quote Sounds like an abomination to the Lord to me, how about you?
​

What about the next usage of generation?

33 Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door. 34 I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.
​

I haven't opened this can of worms for you yet. I was only commenting on veterans multiple use definitions for the word generation.
in two passages that indicate a generation of time. This Generation.

How about the "things" which happen at the midpoint of the one 'seven' when the abomination is set up.

This is news to me. That must be your take on the situation. I have posted the answers to this and more in the 70 week thread just ask Christina

Now tell me when the abomination was set in the Temple.

I did...........................Really I didn't, I just quoted Jesus, Danial and Gabriel
Jesus was going off on the abomination set up in the temple threw the entire 23 chapter of Mathew. Then He said See! Your house is left to you desolate.

Now read this.
[sup]15[/sup] “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), [sup]16[/sup] “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.

When you SEE THE abomination of desolation. Key words here of desolation standing in the holy place. Its pretty easy to figure out who carried out the desolation of the abomination in Mathew 23. Jesus only declared it desolate because of the abomination. He literally as I said above hung all the blood of from Able to them on that generation.

Gabriel says it much better than I can.
And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate

On the wing of abominations, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,that's kind of poetic isn't it.

 

[bud02]

Before you say, Danial 9-27 says shall be one who makes desolate
Their is the full discription of the one.

Read Danial 8:[sup]22[/sup] As for the broken horn and the four that stood up in its place, four kingdoms shall arise out of that nation, but not with its power.
[sup]23[/sup] “ And in the latter time of their kingdom,
When the transgressors have reached their fullness,
A king shall arise,
Having fierce features,
Who understands sinister schemes.
[sup]24[/sup] His power shall be mighty, but not by his own power;
He shall destroy fearfully,
And shall prosper and thrive;
He shall destroy the mighty, and also the holy people.
[sup]25[/sup] “ Through his cunning
He shall cause deceit to prosper under his rule;[sup][c][/sup]
And he shall exalt himself in his heart.
He shall destroy many in their prosperity.
He shall even rise against the Prince of princes;
But he shall be broken without human means.[sup][d][/sup]
[sup]26[/sup] “ And the vision of the evenings and mornings
Which was told is true;
Therefore seal up the vision,
For it refers to many days in the future.”

If you want a further description of the one we can go Rev chapter 12.
But again Gabriel says it best
And the people of the prince who is to come -----------------he has yet to come, ---------but first the man of perdition must be reveled.
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.

 

[teleiosis]

[sup]27[/sup] Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; ----------He is Jesus
But in the middle of the week ---------------------Jesus went to the cross cut off is what Gabriel says.
He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. ------------Jesus---------Temple of no value now its useless
And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, -------------Jesus declared it desolate and you know who made it desolate. see verse 26
Even until the consummation, which is determined,
Is poured out on the desolate.”

Your quote Sounds like an abomination to the Lord to me, how about you?​

It sounds that way to you, but not to me.

1. Jesus did not "prevail" anything for ONLY ONE WEEK.
2. gabar means prevail, not confirm as it is commonly defined with its positive connotation.
3. Jesus made an everlasting covenant with us on the eve of His crucifixion; not at the beginning of His ministry.
4. Jesus did not end the Jewish rituals. They made another curtain and their rituals went on for almost another forty years. Whether or not that was acceptable is a matter of opinion; I'm guessing NOT because of their "heart" condition, not the physical rent in the curtain which signified the departing of His Spirit from the Holy of Holies.
5. Jesus did NOT declare the Temple desolate. He said in fulfillment of prophecy that it would be torn down, and furthermore, in the figurative sense, alluded to Himself as a temple which would be built again in only three days.

Mark

 

[veteran]

You really believe what you say in-spite of the historical evidence don't you. In-spite of a simple check with Strongs numbers.

1074. genea ghen-eh-ah' from (a presumed derivative of) 1085; a generation; by implication, an age (the period or the persons):--age, generation, nation, time.

And here is 1085 the presumed derivative of the word Jesus used. Thats your kin

1085. genos ghen'-os from 1096; "kin" (abstract or concrete, literal or figurative, individual or collective):--born, country(-man), diversity, generation, kind(-red), nation, offspring, stock.

The evidence with out even looking in Strongs is that less than 40 years after it was said Jerusalem was crushed along with the temple.
But for some reason that doesn't satisfy you. You will still say I'm wrong.

Well, you are wrong; you just don't know it yet.

It's simple, because if you're going to try and link genea (1075) in Matt.23:36 as an 'age' with Matt.24:34 genea then ALL the signs Christ gave in Matt.24 would had to have come to pass in that particular 'generation' of His first coming, if that was the generation He meant.

If so, THEN you would be saying Christ's second coming and our gathering to Him has already happenned, for that is the last sign our Lord Jesus gave in Matt.24. And He said the generation that is to experience all those signs would not pass until ALL those signs are fulfilled. That would take you back to the doctrine of Full Preterism which believes Christ's second coming has already happenned. And if you try to say our Lord's SECOND coming was historical, that puts you within that false seminary doctrine of Preterism, for Christ's return has not happenned yet today.

So do you, do you actually believe Christ's SECOND COMING is already past history?

Christ was speaking of a certain group of people in Matt.23. And the fact that Dr. Strong's also has the definition of genea as a 'nation' points that out also. If you look at other Greek Lexicons, like Vine's word studies, you'll find it also has the meaning of a family, race or offspring.

In Matt.23 that generation of vipers was included in Christ's declaration of destruction, and history did indeed see the end of their sacrifices and temple in their era. But their generation (family) Christ pointed to also involves the history of that group of crept in unawares back to their fathers, for Christ goes back to the very first event of shedding blood with righteous Abel. Men's traditions have simply blinded you as to the importance of what our Lord Jesus was pointing to in Matt.23 about that generation of vipers. It's about a certain people, the "crept in unawares" of Jude, not all Israel. That generation (family) of vipers is still with us today. It's about the "tares" of Matt.13, not the good wheat.

And in the Matt.24:34 example, it is not Christ's use of the word generation that sets time. It was His pointing to the seeing of ALL those signs He gave coming to pass. And once again, the very last sign He gave was about His second coming and our gathering to Him. That sign did not happen with the 70 A.D. destruction of Jerusalem. Nor did the sign of the "abomination of desolation" happen in that era of 70 A.D., for that sign is about an idol image setup inside the temple in Jerusalem. The temple burned down before the Romans could get inside it (per Jewish historian Josephus).

 

[veteran]

It sounds that way to you, but not to me.

1. Jesus did not "prevail" anything for ONLY ONE WEEK.
2. gabar means prevail, not confirm as it is commonly defined with its positive connotation.
3. Jesus made an everlasting covenant with us on the eve of His crucifixion; not at the beginning of His ministry.
4. Jesus did not end the Jewish rituals. They made another curtain and their rituals went on for almost another forty years. Whether or not that was acceptable is a matter of opinion; I'm guessing NOT because of their "heart" condition, not the physical rent in the curtain which signified the departing of His Spirit from the Holy of Holies.
5. Jesus did NOT declare the Temple desolate. He said in fulfillment of prophecy that it would be torn down, and furthermore, in the figurative sense, alluded to Himself as a temple which would be built again in only three days.

Mark

Exactly.

The 69th week ENDED with Christ's crucifixion, for that's the meaning of Dan.9:26 about Messiah being "cut off".

The "abomination of desolation" He referred to from the Book of Daniel wasn't about destruction of the temple anyway. The context of Matt.24:15 through 28 is about a certain pseudochristos He warned of, and an idol standing in the holy place (holy of holies inside the temple). That's the connection of the "he" of Dan.9:27 and Dan.11:31 that places that abomination.

 

[bud02]

It sounds that way to you, but not to me.

1. Jesus did not "prevail" anything for ONLY ONE WEEK.
2. gabar means prevail, not confirm as it is commonly defined with its positive connotation.
3. Jesus made an everlasting covenant with us on the eve of His crucifixion; not at the beginning of His ministry.

I see, don't you suppose He must first teach the new covenant, and buy demonstration confirming He is capable of making it.
The crucifixion does no good with out the knowledge of its purpose.
A covenant is nothing with out definition.
Add to that list fulfilling prophesy.
These are not part of the covenant?
The bottom line, you miss quote to start with. "Jesus made" where does it say Jesus made an everlasting covenant?

Gal 3-
[sup]16[/sup]Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

[sup]17[/sup]And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

now compare these two.
[sup]28[/sup] For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many
.....Dan 9-27 he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week

Jesus did not end the Jewish rituals. .

He didn't? Then that means the Jews have to keep a different set of standards before God than the Gentiles. You should really read some of Pauls teachings
Gal 3-[sup]27[/sup]For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. [sup]28[/sup]There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

[sup]29[/sup]And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Did you read that salvation has nothing to do with being a decedent of Abraham. Israel was the vehicle that delivered Christ. Nobody will ever be or ever was saved simply because they are Abraham's decedent.

Jesus did NOT declare the Temple desolate. He said in fulfillment of prophecy that it would be torn down, and furthermore, in the figurative sense, alluded to Himself as a temple which would be built again in only three days.

Just where is this found? verse please. He said in fulfillment of prophecy that it would be torn down,.
He declared it desolate and He became the Temple built in three days.

They made another curtain and their rituals went on for almost another forty years. Whether or not that was acceptable is a matter of opinion; I'm guessing NOT because of their "heart" condition, not the physical rent in the curtain which signified the departing of His Spirit from the Holy of Holies

So the testimony of John the Baptist, the Holy Spirit descending on Jesus is wrong? Jesus became the Holy of Holies, the Messiah. The picture you give is the Spirit was still present in the temple as well as in Jesus. Thats funny, what do you think? after the Pharisees rejected Jesus threw out His ministry, that they could go and offer a sacrifice and be forgiven in the temple? That sounds a bit skitzophrenic.
No the fact is the temple and its sacrifices were of no value after the cross, Jesus is now our sacrifice once and for all. To say that a Levitical temple is of value to God is to deny Jesus, simple as that. If they built a temple tomorrow it would be a testimony against Jesus. Do you think God would honor their goats and lambs blood? If He did He makes Himself a lair and Christ of no value.

[sup]38[/sup]Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. [sup]39[/sup]For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

This does not sound like a new temple is going to cut it with Jesus.




You beginning to see how hanging on to 9-27 as Satan, effects your basic definition of salvation?

​

Mark

 

[bud02]

So do you, do you actually believe Christ's SECOND COMING is already past history?

You really amaze me this has to be at least the 6th or 7th time I've had to tell you NO.
Do you think you can remember that.
You and watchman can't seem to resist making me out to be something I never claimed to be.

Do me a favor and show me where I said or implied such a thing.
Scratch that Idea I'll just have to listen to you jump from verse to unrelated verse again.
I had one thing to point out in Danial and you accuse me over and over again of believing the second coming has already happened.
Do you have some sort of disorder, or learning disability?
If you don't, I can only presume you do it out of malice

I can understand your inability to be able to compartmentalize information and evaluate it individually.
That would explain your going over your personal interpretation or understanding from beginning to end every single time, and in the end you always accuse me of this.

But to be unable to accept my simple no to your question again, all I can say is wow.

 

[veteran]

You really amaze me this has to be at least the 6th or 7th time I've had to tell you NO.
Do you think you can remember that.
You and watchman can't seem to resist making me out to be something I never claimed to be.

Do me a favor and show me where I said or implied such a thing.
Scratch that Idea I'll just have to listen to you jump from verse to unrelated verse again.
I had one thing to point out in Danial and you accuse me over and over again of believing the second coming has already happened.
Do you have some sort of disorder, or learning disability?
If you don't, I can only presume you do it out of malice

I can understand your inability to be able to compartmentalize information and evaluate it individually.
That would explain your going over your personal interpretation or understanding from beginning to end every single time, and in the end you always accuse me of this.

But to be unable to accept my simple no to your question again, all I can say is wow.

Have to keep making sure, since you believe the "he" of Dan.9:27 is our Lord Jesus, and that many of the events of Matt.24 have already been fulfilled, for that's what Full Preterists also believe, and they treat Christ's second coming as already past.