The Law of Moses Has Not Been Abolished

[GodsGrace]

There is no evidence of that. However, there is plenty of evidence that Jesus (the husband) died to release Israel (the wife) from the bondage of the old covenant (the law). The best evidence is probably found in Romans 7:1-4,

"Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth? For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband. So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man. Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God." -- Rom 7:1-4 KJV




What is the rest of the passage?

"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." -- Mat 5:17-18 KJV

Jesus said, all that was written would be fulfilled in the days that Jerusalem was surrounded by armies:

"And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled." -- Luk 21:20-22 KJV

Jerusalem was surrounded by the Roman armies of Cestius Gallus in A.D. 66. Cestius withdrew his troops a short time later, giving Christians the opportunity to leave Jerusalem and run for the hills before things got too out of hand.

The part about "heaven and earth" passing is another story.

Rev

There is no evidence that every new covenant does not abolish the old covenant?

Whateva...

 

[GodsGrace]

the women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says.
... If anyone thinks that he is a prophet, or spiritual, he should acknowledge that the things I am writing to you are a command of the Lord. But if anyone ignores this, he himself will be ignored. (1 Corinthians 14:37-38 [ESV])

Whatever Paul commanded are commands of Lord, and the Lord is Jesus Christ. Paul commanded wives being silent in the assemblies, and also wearing tzniut, because it was commanded in the Law, which the Lord, who is Jesus Christ, also taught that all must obey.

The only law Jesus told us to obey is the Moral Law.
Head coverings are a ceremonial law. That has been abolished.

Jesus respected women more than any other man of His time.

Interesting also is that Paul is listened to when it's convenient, and not when it's not convenient.

Christians, gentiles, only need to follow the Moral Law.

Or we'd have to not eat pork and be circumcised and who knows what else. We could go through the books of Deuteronomy and Leviticus.

We sway from one extreme to the other.

 

[Dcopymope]

There is no evidence that every new covenant does not abolish the old covenant?

Whateva...

Yeah, scripture plainly states multiple times that the law has not been abolished but established and written in the heart of the believer as the prophet Jeremiah also plainly stated would come..........but somehow, there is no evidence............................oh boy.

 

[GodsGrace]

Yeah, scripture plainly states multiple times that the law has not been abolished but established and written in the heart of the believer as the prophet Jeremiah plainly stated would come..........but somehow, there is no evidence............................oh boy.

I'm getting a little tired of trying to convince some here of what we all should already know.

Plus, if one studies the Covenants, it's one of the first things that is learned.

But learning is looked down upon, I've learned here...
I'm just sorry for where Christianity has ended up.

 

[Dcopymope]

I'm getting a little tired of trying to convince some here of what we all should already know.

Plus, if one studies the Covenants, it's one of the first things that is learned.

But learning is looked down upon, I've learned here...
I'm just sorry for where Christianity has ended up.

Yep, Christianity has become a joke to the world at large. I can blame it on Satan, but really, much of the blame can be put solely on the bafoons within the faith itself. When it says Jesus fulfilled the law, it means you are saved from the coming judgement of it for those who repents. Its got nothing to do with it being abolished or it being of no effect. It is in fact in full effect, made even more so by the Lord, from which the letter of the law which is spiritual was written in your inward parts.

 

[GodsGrace]

Yep, Christianity has become a joke to the world at large. I can blame it on Satan, but really, much of the blame can be put solely on the bafoons within the faith itself. When it says Jesus fulfilled the law, it means you are saved from the coming judgement of it for those who repents. Its got nothing to do with it being abolished or it being of no effect. It is in fact in full effect, made even more so by the Lord, from which the letter of the law which is spiritual was written in your inward parts.

Well AMEN to that.
I must say I've become very disillusioned with this forum.
Seems persons here do not wish to have any serious discussion
and do not know their faith very well. Have heard some pretty
strange ideas.
I wish you much good luck here, you'll be needing it.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I couldn't find the original post.

christiang said: ↑
Clearly you have not read the Law when God told Eve after they had sinned,

Your husband shall rule over you

Eve was submitted to her husband, which is why wives must submit to husbands. The sign that a woman has come under submission to a husband is the veil. I have a study on this here, The Tzniut, Wives and Head Coverings | Wisdom of God . The apostle Paul mandates it.
Click to expand...

Did Jesus mandate it?

****
Absolutely Jesus(The LORD in the flesh) mandated it.


Part of the punishment for sin: A yoke of bondage.
Genesis 3:16 KJV
[16] Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

Your husband shall rule over you

Genesis 4:6-7 KJV
[6] And the Lord said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen? [7] If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

The first Adam: a yoke of bondage was put around the neck of the pair which was ONE; flesh and bone: man and woman. The head and body. "Your husband shall rule over you"

The second Adam, Christ: removed that yoke of bondage: the pair which is ONE; flesh and bone: man and woman. BY the head(which is Christ) the body has been made free. The LORD in the flesh overcome the enmity. Your husband shall rule over you. Absolutely!! Spirit!

"The apostle Paul mandates it." YES he did! Your husband shall rule over you...but in the new testament that husband is CHRIST. Not the fallen Adam. Let us talk about what Paul teaches:

Early Saul:
Acts 22: 4 And I persecuted this way unto the death, binding and delivering into prisons both men and women."
"Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?"

Latter Paul:
Galatians 4: 5-7 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying Abba, Father.
Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.


Mark 10:42-45 KJV
[42] But Jesus called them to him , and saith unto them, Ye know that they which are accounted to rule over the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and their great ones exercise authority upon them. [43] But so shall it not be among you: but whosoever will be great among you, shall be your minister: [44] And whosoever of you will be the chiefest, shall be servant of all. [45] For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.


Philippians 4:3
And I intreat thee also, true yokefellow, help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and with other my fellowlabourers, whose names are in the book of life.

Galatians 5:1
5 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

Acts 15:10
10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

The sign that a woman has come under submission to a husband is the veil. The veil has been torn.

"Your husband shall rule over you."

That husband is Christ! And what a good Master and Lord He is!

 

[christiang]

The only law Jesus told us to obey is the Moral Law.
Head coverings are a ceremonial law. That has been abolished.

Jesus respected women more than any other man of His time.

Interesting also is that Paul is listened to when it's convenient, and not when it's not convenient.

Christians, gentiles, only need to follow the Moral Law.

Or we'd have to not eat pork and be circumcised and who knows what else. We could go through the books of Deuteronomy and Leviticus.

We sway from one extreme to the other.

Then go ahead and discard what Paul and the Law commanded. May your disobedience come upon your own head in the day of the Lord.

 

[Rev20]

Umm not Quite.
There were two tablets given in the OT and if you pay attention to the scriptures that you referenced God said I will put my "LAWS" in their heart. So, there is not just one law.

True. There are two, but they are like unto each other:

"Master, which is the great commandment in the law? Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." -- Mat 22:36-40 KJV

Jesus summarized them into one commandment:

"Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets." -- Mat 7:12 KJV

So did Paul:

"Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law." -- Rom 13:10 KJV

"For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself." -- Gal 5:14 KJV

So, if love fulfills ALL the law, what additional, extra-biblical laws are you suggesting we live by?

Perhaps you should pay more attention to the Word of God than religious dogma.

Now I am not just going to give you the answer to what you missed since we as Christians are supposed to live by every word of God's mouth so, tell me what is missing from your reply?

I am not impressed with your arrogance. Rather, it tends to make me dismissive of everything you write.

Let's put your arrogance to the test. Do you live by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God? Prove it!

Rev

 

[Rev20]

There is no evidence that every new covenant does not abolish the old covenant?

Can you please rephrase?

:)

 

[Rev20]

Well AMEN to that.
I must say I've become very disillusioned with this forum.
Seems persons here do not wish to have any serious discussion
and do not know their faith very well. Have heard some pretty
strange ideas.

If you truly desire a serious discussion, perhaps you might refrain from posting pictures of creepy looking women posed as if they lost their beloved I-Phone.

Regarding the demise of the old, Sinai covenant, the Lord foretold it in Zechariah:

"And I took my staff, even Beauty, and cut it asunder, that I might break my covenant which I had made with all the people. And it was broken in that day: and so the poor of the flock that waited upon me knew that it was the word of the Lord." -- Zec 11:10-11 KJV

In that same day that the covenant was broken, the Lord was betrayed:

"And I said unto them, If ye think good, give me my price; and if not, forbear. So they weighed for my price thirty pieces of silver. And the Lord said unto me, Cast it unto the potter: a goodly price that I was prised at of them. And I took the thirty pieces of silver, and cast them to the potter in the house of the Lord." -- Zec 11:12-13 KJV

Rev

 

[GodsGrace]

Then go ahead and discard what Paul and the Law commanded. May your disobedience come upon your own head in the day of the Lord.

I like to listen to Jesus.
I do believe He raised the bar.
Many believe Paul lowered the bar so much that nothing is required of us.
Except to believe.
That's it.
I hear say that Jesus can even be insulted if we try to do anything at all in the way of good works because He's already done it all.

Paul is very misunderstood.
But I think you understand him.
This is good.
They actually agree with each other... even though some Christian's like to call themselves
"Pauline".

 

[GodsGrace]

If you truly desire a serious discussion, perhaps you might refrain from posting pictures of creepy looking women posed as if they lost their beloved I-Phone.

Regarding the demise of the old, Sinai covenant, the Lord foretold it in Zechariah:

"And I took my staff, even Beauty, and cut it asunder, that I might break my covenant which I had made with all the people. And it was broken in that day: and so the poor of the flock that waited upon me knew that it was the word of the Lord." -- Zec 11:10-11 KJV

In that same day that the covenant was broken, the Lord was betrayed:

"And I said unto them, If ye think good, give me my price; and if not, forbear. So they weighed for my price thirty pieces of silver. And the Lord said unto me, Cast it unto the potter: a goodly price that I was prised at of them. And I took the thirty pieces of silver, and cast them to the potter in the house of the Lord." -- Zec 11:12-13 KJV

Rev

A sign of deep frustration...
To which I will no longer subject myself.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

If you truly desire a serious discussion, perhaps you might refrain from posting pictures of creepy looking women posed as if they lost their beloved I-Phone.

Regarding the demise of the old, Sinai covenant, the Lord foretold it in Zechariah:

"And I took my staff, even Beauty, and cut it asunder, that I might break my covenant which I had made with all the people. And it was broken in that day: and so the poor of the flock that waited upon me knew that it was the word of the Lord." -- Zec 11:10-11 KJV

In that same day that the covenant was broken, the Lord was betrayed:

"And I said unto them, If ye think good, give me my price; and if not, forbear. So they weighed for my price thirty pieces of silver. And the Lord said unto me, Cast it unto the potter: a goodly price that I was prised at of them. And I took the thirty pieces of silver, and cast them to the potter in the house of the Lord." -- Zec 11:12-13 KJV

Rev

Zechariah 11:7 KJV
[7] And I will feed the flock of slaughter, even you, O poor of the flock. And I took unto me two staves; the one I called Beauty, and the other I called Bands; and I fed the flock.

Two staves: One Beauty. The other Bands??

 

[101G]

GINOLJC, addressing the OP only. the law is not abolish, but made, or rendered useless. #1. the Law was never given to give life. #2. the Law was never made for a righteous man. think on that. so what was the law made for?. answer, 1 Timothy 1:9 & 10 "Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine". Galatians 3:19 "Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator". the Law is for LAW BREAKERS, not the RIGHTEOUS.

see God is Just. when those who disregard the TRUTH God's Word, then there is a standard where one must be JUDGED BY. again, 1 Timothy 1:9 & 10 "Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, and the rest. here's why, read Romans chapter 2.

 

[bbyrd009]

Two staves: One Beauty. The other Bands??

well, or "union" or even "binders."
Zechariah 11:7 So I shepherded the flock marked for slaughter, particularly the oppressed of the flock. Then I took two staffs and called one Favor and the other Union, and I shepherded the flock.

 

[christiang]

I like to listen to Jesus.
I do believe He raised the bar.
Many believe Paul lowered the bar so much that nothing is required of us.
Except to believe.
That's it.
I hear say that Jesus can even be insulted if we try to do anything at all in the way of good works because He's already done it all.

Paul is very misunderstood.
Bot I think you understand him.
This is good.
They actually agree with each other... even though some Christian's like to call themselves
"Pauline".

Lets see how well your belief without actions goes for you.

 

[KBCid]

unless one is not over them at least, ya

We are in high school now

 

[KBCid]

True. There are two, but they are like unto each other:
"Master, which is the great commandment in the law? Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." -- Mat 22:36-40 KJV
Jesus summarized them into one commandment:
"Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets." -- Mat 7:12 KJV
So did Paul:
"Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law." -- Rom 13:10 KJV
"For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself." -- Gal 5:14 KJV

They are indeed similar but there is a difference, the first is how we deal with God and the second is how we deal with other created beings. Both together encompass the entirety of the law and prophets not one by itself. Love is the foundation for both commandments / laws

So, if love fulfills ALL the law, what additional, extra-biblical laws are you suggesting we live by?
Perhaps you should pay more attention to the Word of God than religious dogma.

There are no extra-biblical laws. All the laws and the prophets were derived from the two royal laws. They were simple basic concepts to begin to understand God by. So, tell me which of the 10 commandments / moral laws is not part of the two royal laws? Let's see how well you comprehend what Christ is telling mankind....
Christ said;
Matt 5:27 “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not commit adultery.28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

Is Christ saying that now we can perform adultery bodily just not in our minds? Or is he saying that not only is adultery still a sin but, now it is also a sin to even think about it?

If even thinking lustfully about a woman under the new covenant is a sin then tell me how is it that actually performing the act is not a part of the same covenant? And for that matter tell me which of the OC moral laws is not a part of the new covenant?

I am not impressed with your arrogance. Rather, it tends to make me dismissive of everything you write.
Let's put your arrogance to the test. Do you live by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God? Prove it!
Rev

I'm not impressed with people that take away from the intent of Christ's message.
According to Christ's own words "MAN shall live by every word of God's mouth" do you deny this too?

Matt 4:4 But he (Christ) answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Low and behold this point Christ makes comes from where?
Deut 8:3 And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD doth man live.

Straight out of the old testament.... So if Christ is asserting that there are things from the old testament that apply under the new covenant then where do you draw the line?
God sent prophecy by Isaiah saying;
Isa 42:1Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

21The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.
22But this is a people robbed and spoiled; they are all of them snared in holes, and they are hid in prison houses: they are for a prey, and none delivereth; for a spoil, and none saith, Restore. 23Who among you will give ear to this? who will hearken and hear for the time to come?

Christ indeed MAGNIFIED the law when he showed us that sin was not simply the performance of it in the body rather, he showed us that IT IS A SIN even if you think about doing it. Christ magnified the law and now with the new covenant it has become honorable because no one can try and gain the kingdom simply by following God's laws with the body alone... now you have to do it from the heart.

So under the new covenant if you say you are a follower of Christ and yet knowingly persist in sin even within your mind then you would be a liar and he will certainly tell you that face to face.

Proof of who has followed Christ's direction will be shown at the judgment where the only beings able to see what is in the heart of men will judge it and the rest will see which way they are taken away.

 

[GodsGrace]

Lets see how well your belief without actions goes for you.

I do believe you've misunderstood me.
No problem.