The Law of Moses Has Not Been Abolished

[bbyrd009]

But, why should this specific command of not boiling meat in milk be changed?

well, as has already been noted, the command is not about meat anyway, but rather "a kid." So the very first jump is the wrong direction, and it just degenerates from there. The spiritual concept is not seen, due to hardness of heart, and rather a law to oppress others is implemented.

 

[KBCid]

For those of you who are promoting that believers cannot sin I have this question for you.

If the old covenant is done away with from the moment Christ was sacrificed does this mean that no one including Jew or gentile non-believers can sin since sin has always been the transgression of the law?

 

[christiang]

well, as has already been noted, the command is not about meat anyway, but rather "a kid." So the very first jump is the wrong direction, and it just degenerates from there. The spiritual concept is not seen, due to hardness of heart, and rather a law to oppress others is implemented.

A kid is meat, since you're obviously boiling it to eat it.

 

[bbyrd009]

What?
Are you promoting that one should sin so that grace may abound?

where?

 

[KBCid]

I do not know. As such, because I do not know, I am obligated by my own conscience to obey it literally as given, as opposed to other commands where I have knowledge that permit not to observe them literally, such as festivals and abstinence from certain meats.

And I am not promoting you do anything different.
I would say that it may be morally offensive to God since they designed mothers milk to be the very thing to keep the young alive.

 

[KBCid]

where?

from the post you made that I quoted from

 

[bbyrd009]

A kid is meat, since you're obviously boiling it to eat it.

so then a spiritual reference is ignored, and a literal reference is seized upon in its place

 

[bbyrd009]

from the post you made that I quoted from

the one where i stated that i would refrain from putting cheese on a burger if it would offend?

 

[christiang]

so then a spiritual reference is ignored, and a literal reference is seized upon in its place

You haven't provided a valid figurative (which you call spiritual) reference. You're just guessing what it might be, so you don't have to obey the command, but you don't actually know what it means. Paul gave is an explanation of the meaning of "do not muzzle the ox", and it is a valid explanation.

 

[KBCid]

the one where i stated that i would refrain from putting cheese on a burger if it would offend?

bbyrd009 said "i am not disagreeing, but that is not the end of that story either, as grace is also an opportunity for forgiveness."

Sin more so that Grace may abound?

 

[bbyrd009]

You haven't provided a valid figurative (which you call spiritual) reference.

yes, i did, i gave it more than once even, as if you even need anyone to tell you the symbology of boil, kid goat, or milk.

You're just guessing what it might be

so you say

so you don't have to obey the command

i already plainly stated that i would not be boiling a kid in its mother's milk just on principle anyway, didn't i?

but neither would i offend by refusing if i were staying in one house, and eating what they gave me

but you don't actually know what it means

now who's guessing lol

Paul gave is an explanation of the meaning of "do not muzzle the ox", and it is a valid explanation.

9For it is written in the law of Moses, Do not muzzle an ox while it treads out grain. Is God really concerned with oxen?

my bad, i guess God is prolly concerned with kid goats some kind of way, whereas he is not concerned with oxen.

 

[bbyrd009]

bbyrd009 said "i am not disagreeing, but that is not the end of that story either, as grace is also an opportunity for forgiveness."

Sin more so that Grace may abound?

so forgiveness is sin now? i'm afraid you are misunderstanding where i meant for the forgiveness to be engendered; i am not referring to receiving forgiveness there, but in manifesting it oneself, rather than trying to see a commandment that must be followed by--it goes unsaid--others.

So then, in the case of the kid/milk thing, what is given as an opportunity to manifest forgiveness to a new seeker is turned into a law to oppress everyone

 

[christiang]

yes, i did, i gave it more than once even, as if you even need anyone to tell you the symbology of boil, kid goat, or milk.

so you say

i already plainly stated that i would not be boiling a kid in its mother's milk just on principle anyway, didn't i?

but neither would i offend by refusing if i were staying in one house, and eating what they gave me

now who's guessing lol
9For it is written in the law of Moses, Do not muzzle an ox while it treads out grain. Is God really concerned with oxen?

my bad, i guess God is prolly concerned with kid goats some kind of way, whereas he is not concerned with oxen.

No you didn't. Explain,

1. What does milk symbolize? You said the "word of God". Okay, but then how does that relate with these 3 other things,
2. What does the kid symbolize?
3. And how does one boil whatever the kid symbolizes in whatever the milk symbolizes?
4. And in answering number 3, how would that be evil?

These are very important questions, because if you fail in the least of the matters of the Law, you will be subject to condemnation. If you can't answer these questions, then you haven't thought this through, and are doing exactly what I said, guessing.

 

[bbyrd009]

No you didn't. Explain,

1. What does milk symbolize? You said the "word of God". Okay, but then how does that relate with these 3 other things,
2. What does the kid symbolize?
3. And how does one boil whatever the kid symbolizes in whatever the milk symbolizes?
4. And in answering number 3, how would that be evil?

These are very important questions, because if you fail in the least of the matters of the Law, you will be subject to condemnation. If you can't answer these questions, then you haven't thought this through, and are doing exactly what I said, guessing.

great, so now we're gonna do this thing where i require you to answer a question first, in order to answer your question, since the clear, logical explanation could not be quoted or, apparently, even seen--it has become invisible lol, i wrote in disappearing ink or something.

how does one boil whatever the kid symbolizes in whatever the milk symbolizes? Except by making laws where grace should abound? Requiring separate shelves for food, rather than grasping the spiritual principle. Piling a bunch of Thou Shalt Not on a new believer, rather than manifesting grace to them? Turning them into twice the son of hell as ourselves?

 

[bbyrd009]

These are very important questions, because if you fail in the least of the matters of the Law, you will be subject to condemnation.

ha i mean listen to yourself man


now contrast that with
"Who told you that you were naked?
Here, have a skin then."

 

[christiang]

great, so now we're gonna do this thing where i require you to answer a question first, in order to answer your question, since the clear, logical explanation could not be quoted or, apparently, even seen--it has become invisible lol, i wrote in disappearing ink or something.

how does one boil whatever the kid symbolizes in whatever the milk symbolizes? Except by making laws where grace should abound? Requiring separate shelves for food, rather than grasping the spiritual principle. Piling a bunch of Thou Shalt Not on a new believer, rather than manifesting grace to them? Turning them into twice the son of hell as ourselves?

I asked you very reasonable questions that any discerning man would ask. I am open minded, but also not gullible, I'm not going to just discard a command of God and risk losing my soul over a stupid thing as meat and cheese because some idiot in an online forum told me to do so. Now, just as Paul explained the meaning of "do not muzzle the ox", it should not be difficult for someone who is right to explain the figurative meaning of this command, if there even is a secondary meaning to begin with. Perhaps it is just evil to boil the meat of an animal in what was meant to nourish it, did you not consider that? My rule of thumb with any command of God is, OBEY FIRST, understand later. So far, no figurative understanding has been given to me concerning this command to just simply discard it, so I obey it literally as given. Perhaps you should do the same, instead of guessing, which you clearly are, because you don't want to give up your cheeseburgers and pepperoni pizzas, which shows your lack of fear of God. Shouldn't you side on the side of caution than wing it when you yourself don't even know as is evident by your lack of explanation? So stupid.

 

[bbyrd009]

What?
Are you promoting that one should sin so that grace may abound?

which i guess i should add there that it is possible that i just wrote poorly or something, which we cannot assume that Scripture has done, yet nonetheless no matter how carefully i wrote that,

i am not disagreeing, but that is not the end of that story either, as grace is also an opportunity for forgiveness. I do not exclude you or look down on you, even if i feel that you are mired in the law right now (having been boiled in your mother's milk, iow), and in fact i would even refrain from putting cheese on my burger at your house, ok.

highlighting the grace rather than the sin, to my mind anyway, see how it can be read...with different eyes, should one choose to do so.

 

[bbyrd009]

I asked you very reasonable questions that any discerning man would ask. I am open minded, but also not gullible, I'm not going to just discard a command of God and risk losing my soul over a stupid thing as meat and cheese because some idiot in an online forum told me to do so.

ha, amen to that

Perhaps it is just evil to boil the meat of an animal in what was meant to nourish it, did you not consider that?

oh definitely; seems kind of evil to me to muzzle an ox too, for that matter

My rule of thumb with any command of God is, OBEY FIRST, understand later.

as good a description of boiling a kid in its mother's milk as could possibly be devised imo

So far, no figurative understanding has been given to me concerning this command to just simply discard it, so I obey it literally as given.

so you say, but it has already been pointed out that what happened first is that the command was misunderstood, "kid" was turned into "meat," and "boiling" (i like "seething" here better, myself) was reduced to "mixing," and only now do you wanna "obey" it, after it has been all scribed up.

 

[Helen]

While you concern yourself with your milk and your burger, I will concern myself with an expanded interpretation of the Law because I fear God and want to obey him in absolutely everything that I do.

That is actually as sad post. Because anything that is not of faith is sin.
You obviously do not have enough faith in what Jesus Christ has done.
You think adding to your wee bit of faith is going to please God...it will not , we cannot add to the Finished work.
Also the "I fear God and want to obey Him" is a sad confession for someone who is called to be in The Bride Of Christ. Some 'happy wife'...living in fear and frightened that they will do something that brings punishment.

I know of what I speak...I too "lived there" until the 80's.
May God bless you with His Light.

 

[bbyrd009]

Perhaps you should do the same, instead of guessing, which you clearly are, because you don't want to give up your cheeseburgers and pepperoni pizzas, which shows your lack of fear of God.

for all you know, i already am, but then that would diminish the judgement here i guess