The Law of Moses-Ten Commandments or God's Laws

[Heart2Soul]

I'm not sure what you are studying, nor why you didn't agree with Dave L, but don't forget that anything God says is a commandment. (Just as anything Jesus said was a commandment). Abraham and God spoke together, and Abraham did what He said, plain and simple. Abraham's faith to believe God was why it was imputed to him as righteousness. Also sacrifices were brought down through the generations as offering for sin, thus Abraham kept God's statutes - blood covers sin. Abraham did not have the Ten Commandments as it was a COVENANT. They were the only commands God gave to Moses on Mt. Sinai and were engraved on stone, the glory of which was fading away when the New Covenant replaced it. 2 Corinthians 3:7-11; Galatians 3:19-25.

There is always a sign of a covenant when one is made. The sign of the covenant between God and Abraham was circumcision. The sign of the Old Covenant, the Ten Commandments was the Sabbath. And the sign of the New Covenant is the Cup of the New Covenant (1 Corinthians 11:25)

We no longer circumcise the flesh as law anymore. It was fulfilled in Christ - He is the SEED from that member of the body. We no longer keep the Sabbath anymore. It was fulfilled in Christ. Since creation everything points to Christ as creator and redeemer. Faith is that Rest.

Can you see two different sets of commandments here:

John 15:10
If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.

What are the commandments of the New Covenant? They are what Jesus constantly preached.

1 John 3:23
And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment.

Now look up every time the apostle John used the word command(ment) (s) and replace in your thinking 1 John 3:23. Note that these commandments come from the Father also, so replace His previous commandments which were holy but at a bottom level of righteousness, with these given through His Son with saving power.

If you are wondering if anything God says as a command can be taken away, don't forget God told Abraham to kill his son, Isaac. Then had an angel catch his arm as he was about to stab his son on the alter, cancelling His commandment. From the moment God spoke the commandment to Abraham, Abraham saw his son as dead. It then took 3 days to arrive at the location. The ram representing the true sacrifice, Jesus, let Isaac go free.

He said that there were no 10 commandments before Mt. Sinai....but there are several scriptures referencing God's commandments before that...
God made a covenant with Abraham that if he and his descendants would keep His commandments, be perfect and circumcise their male children, God would bless them and be their God. God promised to make Abraham a father of many nations and to give him the land of Canaan.
I am under the impression that these commandments were the same in context.

 

[Truth]

Well I am still getting lotsa info about the Mosaic Law and the NT....copied from the same link as above.
The Law is God’s Divine Instructions in Righteousness
without which man would have NO blueprint for moral, holy living.
Jesus Christ attempted to abolish the rabbinical, man-made opinions and traditions that kept people in bondage. Neither He nor His apostles ever spoke against the Law nor suggested that after Jesus’ death the Torah was to become null and void. The Apostle Paul said, “Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law.” (Romans 3:31)

You hit the nail dead on, Most folk's do not realize that Yashua [Jesus] was in a constant battle with the Pharisees, because they had departed Moses, Added man made commandment's and had taken away commandment's they didn't want to keep! If you add one commandment or take away one commandment, You no longer have the word of God, You have a polluted form of the word of God, which in essence is a Religion, made by man!
2nd Timothy - 3:15-17
15- and from your childhood you have known the [ Holy Scripture's ], which are able to make You Wise for Salvation through Faith, which is in Yashua [Jesus].
16- ALL Scripture is given by Inspiration of God, And is Profitable for-1- Doctrine, 2- for Reproof, 3- Correction, and 4- for Instruction in Righteousness,
17- THAT the Men and Women of God may be Equipped for Every Good Work!
Here is the Question - What Scripture is Paul referring to ? Second Question? When was the NT really written, before or after this statement to Timothy? And lastly if Timothy knew them from his childhood, who taught Him these Scripture's. Hebrew culture is that they teach the Torah to their children, starting from their Mother.

 

[Dave L]

He said that there were no 10 commandments before Mt. Sinai....but there are several scriptures referencing God's commandments before that...
God made a covenant with Abraham that if he and his descendants would keep His commandments, be perfect and circumcise their male children, God would bless them and be their God. God promised to make Abraham a father of many nations and to give him the land of Canaan.
I am under the impression that these commandments were the same in context.

The Ten did not exist as a group before Sinai. The Two Great Commandments are eternal.

 

[Heart2Soul]

You hit the nail dead on, Most folk's do not realize that Yashua [Jesus] was in a constant battle with the Pharisees, because they had departed Moses, Added man made commandment's and had taken away commandment's they didn't want to keep! If you add one commandment or take away one commandment, You no longer have the word of God, You have a polluted form of the word of God, which in essence is a Religion, made by man!
2nd Timothy - 3:15-17
15- and from your childhood you have known the [ Holy Scripture's ], which are able to make You Wise for Salvation through Faith, which is in Yashua [Jesus].
16- ALL Scripture is given by Inspiration of God, And is Profitable for-1- Doctrine, 2- for Reproof, 3- Correction, and 4- for Instruction in Righteousness,
17- THAT the Men and Women of God may be Equipped for Every Good Work!
Here is the Question - What Scripture is Paul referring to ? Second Question? When was the NT really written, before or after this statement to Timothy? And lastly if Timothy knew them from his childhood, who taught Him these Scripture's. Hebrew culture is that they teach the Torah to their children, starting from their Mother.

I agree....even Jesus taught from the historic scrolls.

 

[Heart2Soul]

The Ten did not exist as a group before Sinai. The Two Great Commandments are eternal.

Well from what other theologians have said is that they did exist but were "codified" in stone as a formal ceremony and as written by God's own finger on Mt. Sinai....I suppose it is a matter of interpretation? I agree with you that the 2 Great Commandments are eternal..

 

[Heart2Soul]

oh and just to clarify @Dave L , I am not the teacher here...definitely the student...just bringing up what others have said as a counterpoint to your point....not sure who is right...maybe both.

 

[Nancy]

Yes, the Holy Spirit is Given to us to Empower us to follow the Commandment's, The Spirit know's them better than we do, so as to keep us on track, through conviction in our Hearts. We know when we are misbehaving, because of the Spirit!

Amen, and spot on!

 

[Mjh29]

Well from what other theologians have said is that they did exist but were "codified" in stone as a formal ceremony and as written by God's own finger on Mt. Sinai....I suppose it is a matter of interpretation? I agree with you that the 2 Great Commandments are eternal..

The 10 Commandments were written on the hearts of men from their creation. Man holds down the truth in unrighteousness, so God, in order to prevent men from pleading an ignorance that he knew they didn't have, wrote the basic principles of His Law onto the stones.

 

[Dave L]

Well from what other theologians have said is that they did exist but were "codified" in stone as a formal ceremony and as written by God's own finger on Mt. Sinai....I suppose it is a matter of interpretation? I agree with you that the 2 Great Commandments are eternal..

Your "Theologians" are wrong.
““The LORD our God made a covenant with us at Mount Sinai. The LORD did not make this covenant with our ancestors, but with all of us who are alive today.” (Deuteronomy 5:2–3)

 

[1stCenturyLady]

oh and just to clarify @Dave L , I am not the teacher here...definitely the student...just bringing up what others have said as a counterpoint to your point....not sure who is right...maybe both.

It is interesting that Peter said that some things written by Paul are hard to understand. But I find that people twist John's words just as much as Paul's. Every book of the Bible must be read in context. Romans must be read in one sitting, at least up through chapter 8 to see the whole teaching on LAW VS. SPIRIT. Many take Romans 7:14-23 out of context of the whole and apply it to the Christian walk. and 9 times out of 10 those same people that do that also apply 1 John 1:8 to Christians, never reading to chapter 3 which contradicts their theory.

CONTEXT, CONTEXT, CONTEXT. And that means all parts must be understood in line with the whole.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Yes, and since the 10 Commandments are from God they never cease to be His Law....While the Law of Moses ceased after Christ came...correct?

i have some thoughts on this.

Jesus said he did not come to do away with the law and the prophets but rather to fulfill them.

we are also told that the word is spirit because God is Spirit. John 6:63.

But we have an instance where Paul brings up a law that is said to be abolished when he says do not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain. And he uses the law in reference to a man/teacher
being worthy of his pay. And then he says a strange thing. He says, you don't suppose God was really talking about oxen there, do you?

Why would Paul bring up a law that he thought was abolished?

I think all the law is spirit and He was given the spirit of that law.

We don't follow the law of Moses, we follow the One all the law and prophets was speaking of. And so we might not know the spirit of all those old laws, but He fulfills them in us nevertheless.

I have seen the spirit of some of those laws and it's a real joy to be shown, but that law isn't what we follow or focus on. We focus on Jesus and on trying to listen to the Spirit and grow in grace and our trust.

 

[Heart2Soul]

i have some thoughts on this.

Jesus said he did not come to do away with the law and the prophets but rather to fulfill them.

we are also told that the word is spirit because God is Spirit. John 6:63.

But we have an instance where Paul brings up a law that is said to be abolished when he says do not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain. And he uses the law in reference to a man/teacher
being worthy of his pay. And then he says a strange thing. He says, you don't suppose God was really talking about oxen there, do you?

Why would Paul bring up a law that he thought was abolished?

I think all the law is spirit and He was given the spirit of that law.

We don't follow the law of Moses, we follow the One all the law and prophets was speaking of. And so we might not know the spirit of all those old laws, but He fulfills them in us nevertheless.

I have seen the spirit of some of those laws and it's a real joy to be shown, but that law isn't what we follow or focus on. We focus on Jesus and on trying to listen to the Spirit and grow in grace and our trust.

These are some good points to think upon and search out....thanks for sharing!

 

[Heart2Soul]

It is interesting that Peter said that some things written by Paul are hard to understand. But I find that people twist John's words just as much as Paul's. Every book of the Bible must be read in context. Romans must be read in one sitting, at least up through chapter 8 to see the whole teaching on LAW VS. SPIRIT. Many take Romans 7:14-23 out of context of the whole and apply it to the Christian walk. and 9 times out of 10 those same people that do that also apply 1 John 1:8 to Christians, never reading to chapter 3 which contradicts their theory.

CONTEXT, CONTEXT, CONTEXT. And that means all parts must be understood in line with the whole.

Exactly which is what I am trying to do....but in this case there are so many instances spoken of in scripture referring to the law that I was getting lost. I am thankful that some of you here have gained that revelation and are willing to share it with me.

 

[Heart2Soul]

How do you argue with the clear statements of scripture? Could it be you don't understand instead?

I am having a bit of difficulty with understanding the difference....and the different posts here seem to contradict what one is saying over another....or I am just plain stupid and can't see the trees through the forest! lol.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

I am having a bit of difficulty with understanding the difference....and the different posts here seem to contradict what one is saying over another....or I am just plain stupid and can't see the trees through the forest! lol.

I think you were just getting confused over the word "commandments" as do Seventh-day Adventists. I've seen many of them use verses out of John's writings to endorse the Ten Commandments, when John is referring to these two: 1. believing in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and 2. loving one another. That is what Jesus taught. And in the case of number 2, he used the weak old Ten Commandments as examples in his Matthew 5 teaching and brought the law up to the standard of the eternal laws of God - LOVE.

 

[Heart2Soul]

I think you were just getting confused over the word "commandments" as do Seventh-day Adventists. I've seen many of them use verses out of John's writings to endorse the Ten Commandments, when John is referring to these two: 1. believing in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and 2. loving one another. That is what Jesus taught. And in the case of number 2, he used the weak old Ten Commandments as examples in his Matthew 5 teaching and brought the law up to the standard of the eternal laws of God - LOVE.

Yes, ma'am I believe you are correct.

 

[Episkopos]

You hit the nail dead on, Most folk's do not realize that Yashua [Jesus] was in a constant battle with the Pharisees, because they had departed Moses, Added man made commandment's and had taken away commandment's they didn't want to keep! If you add one commandment or take away one commandment, You no longer have the word of God, You have a polluted form of the word of God, which in essence is a Religion, made by man!
2nd Timothy - 3:15-17
15- and from your childhood you have known the [ Holy Scripture's ], which are able to make You Wise for Salvation through Faith, which is in Yashua [Jesus].
16- ALL Scripture is given by Inspiration of God, And is Profitable for-1- Doctrine, 2- for Reproof, 3- Correction, and 4- for Instruction in Righteousness,
17- THAT the Men and Women of God may be Equipped for Every Good Work!
Here is the Question - What Scripture is Paul referring to ? Second Question? When was the NT really written, before or after this statement to Timothy? And lastly if Timothy knew them from his childhood, who taught Him these Scripture's. Hebrew culture is that they teach the Torah to their children, starting from their Mother.

There's a lot of that going around...man made religion that is.

 

[brakelite]

Yes, ma'am I believe you are correct.

First century lady has an issue with seventh Day Adventists, because they believe in ten commandments rather than nine. What would be the difference between first century lady refusing to have relations with her neighbours husband, and the seventh day Adventist on the other side of her house refusing to work on the Sabbath?

 

[Nancy]

Your "Theologians" are wrong.
““The LORD our God made a covenant with us at Mount Sinai. The LORD did not make this covenant with our ancestors, but
with all of us who are alive today.” (Deuteronomy 5:2–3)

What about vs's 1 and 5 of Deut. 5?: "1 Hear, Oh Israel, the decrees and laws I declare in your hearing today. Learn them and be sure to follow them.
5 And Moses called unto all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the statutes and the ordinances which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and observe to do them."
Gentiles were NEVER invited to the law.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Men judge by the outside. God looks at the heart and it's thoughts and intentions. Men judge humanly.

Men would say both women are keeping the law when they could be whitewashed tombs, looking good on the outside, but filthy inside.