The Narrow Way
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I answered you the first time. If you read sometimes instead of always trying to talk you'd maybe stay in the conversation that is occurring not the one you are dreaming?
Have you raised from the dead? 3 day death, risen and ascended to heaven? If not why should anyone believe in Christ just because the Bible says HE did?
Why would you believe the Bible says you can be mature as I've described if you haven't seen it happen. Same argument.
If you have to see it to believe the Bible means what it says, then you are worse off than Thomas was AND you miss the whole point.
By you trying to make this a personal commentary on my spiritual growth, you again evade all the reasoning and points and try to focus your comments and arguments on me and my life. I am not sure how to break this to you, but Scripture defines my life, not my life defining Scripture.
You are moving personal. You should stick to the arguments. That's a sign of weakness or fear.
I have never made the claim to be sinless nor mature in Christ. In fact I'm on record in here somewhere of a pretty long list of what I am nots.
Strat you can't even keep up with the arguments, you have no right to try to tell me I'm wrong, or judge what I am personally to God. Until you can take the time to respond what is written to you in response you shouldn't open your piehole ESPECIALLY if all you have is personal shots.
Pardon me if i am not interested in searching your long winded pontifications....its a simple yes or no question....you like the other one here of your kind create alot smoke and complain when somenone tries to clear it and get a straight answer....not personal....just true.....the fact that you take it personal and think its all about you is the answer i was looking for.
Strat, why not get out of the judge's seat, cease from obfuscating and smoke-screening....and tell just how your approach to Christianity differs from the life of any garden variety non-believer. Isn't your approach indistinguishable from the society around you? Can you answer this?
Stop posturing. It was five lines.
Paul said what you claimed was Gnostic. Now you are fighting through hell to save face.
[sup]Eph 4:11 [/sup]And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers,
[sup]12 [/sup]for the equipping of the [sup][d][/sup]saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ;
[sup]13 [/sup]until we all attain (every individual in the body of Christ)
to the unity of the faith, and of the [sup][e][/sup]knowledge of the Son of God,
to a mature man, (the word in Greek is often translated as Perfect. it means mature, as developed/grown as..)
to the measure (If Christ's glass of spiritual maturity was a quart, ours would also be a quart that measured our Spiritual maturity.)
of the stature (IF that quart glass as 3/4 full, ours too would be 3/4 full, not less)
which belongs to thefullness of Christ. (for dense people like you, it's making the point again, in case someone says you can't be as mature as Christ He just put it in plain language...)
So, let's discuss removing Paul from the Canon since YOU have judged him Gnostic.
There isn't a crayola font. I can't make it any more clear. You do this posturing thing again, you are deemed immature and worthless to converse with. I'll have to find the ignore option...
My approach to christianity is not the issue,it is the change that happened in my life,what i used to love(sin) that i now hate....what i used to do willingly and eagerly i now stay far away from.I am sensetive to what i used to be oblivious to,i am no longer afraid of death and actually in a way i look forward to it as the transition from death to real life.I have nothing to do with mainstream modern christianity because so much of it is a fraud,i am not offended by the simplicity of the gospel or the power of the cross of Jesus to save...you don't know what i was before so none of this means anything to you and i'm sure you will pick it apart using greek,latin and hebrew words to tell me how wrong i'm doing it.
The only similarity between me and the culture is i get up and go to work each day like the bible commands me to do...oh,and i do wear clothes,drive a car and obviously have a comuter like you do,my flesh pulls at me all the time but tempting me with this and that...i fall confess my sin and he is faithful and just and forgives my sins and cleanses me from all unrightousness.
I am not the one who is insisting that everyone understand everything exactly like i do so i don't know where you get the idea i'm in the judges seat...i do not use endless scripture references here because people are going to see it say what they want it to say.
Your problem is that you are offended by the simplicity of the gospel,you have spent alot of time reading and studying and just can't come to grips with the simplicity of it all....on and on you go piling up words building a monument to yourself and your....knowledge....have at it and i couldn't care less whether you ignore me or not....you and your kind are of no concern to me,i would have become a christian many years before i did and perhaps my life would have been different had it not been for people like you.
Strat you are untruthful, You are the person expecting everyone to see it as you do. You present proclamations that are embarrasingly corrected and are not man enough to admit you made an oopsi!
Meanwhile, do you think you could sling any more meaningless christian cliches together to pose as the holy of holies you accuse episkopo of posing as?
I don't think E. And I agree on much, but he/she is capable of considering another view. Something your fundagelicaly challenged self fails to attempt.
Strat you are untruthful, You are the person expecting everyone to see it as you do. You present proclamations that are embarrasingly corrected and are not man enough to admit you made an oopsi!
Meanwhile, do you think you could sling any more meaningless christian cliches together to pose as the holy of holies you accuse episkopo of posing as?
I don't think E. And I agree on much, but he/she is capable of considering another view. Something your fundagelicaly challenged self fails to attempt.
Meanwhile, do you think you could sling any more meaningless christian cliches together to pose as the holy of holies you accuse episkopo of posing as?
I don't think E. And I agree on much, but he/she is capable of considering another view. Something your fundagelicaly challenged self fails to attempt.
Strat you are untruthful, You are the person expecting everyone to see it as you do. You present proclamations that are embarrasingly corrected and are not man enough to admit you made an oopsi!
Meanwhile, do you think you could sling any more meaningless christian cliches together to pose as the holy of holies you accuse episkopo of posing as?
I don't think E. And I agree on much, but he/she is capable of considering another view. Something your fundagelicaly challenged self fails to attempt.
Hi XP,
Surely Strat has the same freedom to state his thoughts and opinions as the rest of us? Have you read the whole thread?
This is not true either. Strat has a heap of Bible verses in favour of the stance he's taken in this discussion.
Surely Strat has the same freedom to state his thoughts and opinions as the rest of us? Have you read the whole thread?
This is not true either. Strat has a heap of Bible verses in favour of the stance he's taken in this discussion.
Strat, as far as simplicity of the bible, you just avoided a very straight forward answer that showed you to be a malicious pest, and tried to flip it back to me with some personal statements.
Why is it so difficult for you to answer the arguments and not attack the people? You can't do it. Psychology would search to find out why you can't be wrong in your mind....
You want simple?
You and I are not walking in the Spirit.
Gal 5:16
You and I are not born of God. 1 john 3:9, 5:18.
You and I are not indwelled by the spirit Rom 8:9.
Now, I can EASILY accept those verses exactly as they are written. You will dance around them if you manage to say anything at all about them. Vegas is betting that somehow you manage to insult me again rather than deal with it.
Now, are you ready to admit I was not teaching gnosticism but that paul was? Because Iam really interested in why the gnostics earliest threat to the church wasn't addressed until John's letters, the last ones written, the last living Apostle, and Paul's teaching was sanctioned by the church, and john never said a word while Paul was alive....
Dragon, strat is a person who makes personal assaults not one that defends his positions. Throwing verses around and making claims to their significance is where a discussion starts, not where it ends.
I would love to discuss WITH HIM even though he is unapologetically presenting a falsehood about what I said. If you choose to support that behavior and find it admiral of him, so be it. We will have to agree that we have different expectations of people's behavior.
I don't know if you have noticed, but we/ folx on this forum don't agree on much, but some can find the means to talk down and reconcile as much as possible.
It requires being able to admit you are wrong. Success is NOT measured by evasion and personal insults to distract from the points......
Why is it so difficult for you to answer the arguments and not attack the people? You can't do it. Psychology would search to find out why you can't be wrong in your mind....
You want simple?
You and I are not walking in the Spirit.
Gal 5:16
You and I are not born of God. 1 john 3:9, 5:18.
You and I are not indwelled by the spirit Rom 8:9.
Now, I can EASILY accept those verses exactly as they are written. You will dance around them if you manage to say anything at all about them. Vegas is betting that somehow you manage to insult me again rather than deal with it.
Now, are you ready to admit I was not teaching gnosticism but that paul was? Because Iam really interested in why the gnostics earliest threat to the church wasn't addressed until John's letters, the last ones written, the last living Apostle, and Paul's teaching was sanctioned by the church, and john never said a word while Paul was alive....
Dragon, strat is a person who makes personal assaults not one that defends his positions. Throwing verses around and making claims to their significance is where a discussion starts, not where it ends.
I would love to discuss WITH HIM even though he is unapologetically presenting a falsehood about what I said. If you choose to support that behavior and find it admiral of him, so be it. We will have to agree that we have different expectations of people's behavior.
I don't know if you have noticed, but we/ folx on this forum don't agree on much, but some can find the means to talk down and reconcile as much as possible.
It requires being able to admit you are wrong. Success is NOT measured by evasion and personal insults to distract from the points......
The very fact that you obsess about what you perceive to be personal insults proves you have a long way to go while i couldn't care less about whether or not you insult me...care to whine and wimper some more to expsose yourself even more as an individual light years away from conquering self and ego....you have made no points worth mentioning or discussing and are just a sinner in need of a saviour just like evrybody else....oh the shame of it all.
There's nothing intrinsically wrong with doing the best you can. It does become a problem however when you take your own level of walk to judge the standard set forth what the bible teaches.
A garage band should not be attempting to change music theory because they are unable to play any more than they can.
Strut, you can't help yourself. You arresting but you can't admit it. More importantly, you would rather malign a persons character than admit mistake. What kinda great Xian r u?
The arrogant,self rightous and condescending response i expected...i am not doing the best i can because i can't do anything apart from God's help...you do not uphold the standard either...through the anonymity of the internet you puff yourself up as a great holy man when the reality is i suspect far from that....the picture you use says it all.
Oh my,look how witty you are....please continue to expose yourself holy man...perfect rightous holy man.
How interesting it would be to be able to examine both of these perfect holy men's lives,their thoughts,words and deeds....it woukld reveal much and their shame would be great.
Hi XP,
The last time I called you 'brother' you accused me of patronising you, I can't think why, and yet you as a 'brother' think it's okay to descend on a CyB like the proverbial Assyrian wolf, accusing others of not being prepared to discuss, while your own level of patience for 'discussion' stretches to about three posts, before you start name-calling, rather than addressing the points which have been reasonably raised, with a comparably reasoned contribution.
If anyone makes it personal, it's yourself. I have yet to see one thread in which you have contributed to the topic, in which you have not taken the opportunity to throw in an unnecessarily personal jibe at a poster. Obviously you are aware that you do this, because you comment on it, calling it 'fun'. I guess we all have our weaknesses and pre-conditioning, and thank the Lord He's come into our lives to deliver us from them all! ;)
.
I'm serious about that. We all need a bit of temple made-without-hands preparation during this life, so that when we are placed in that eternal city, we are perfectly ready. But... I will be glad when you change all those jibes into silence, or, a positively edifying comment, instead.
1 Kings 6:7 And the house, when it was in building, was built of stone made ready before it was brought thither:
1 Peter 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood,
Are you serious?
Go back and read all your own posts, and see what you have said about other people whom you hardly know. You yourself when posting to Rach justified giving a person ONE CHANCE, before you think it is okay to give tit for tat. How is that 'Xian'?
The last time I called you 'brother' you accused me of patronising you, I can't think why, and yet you as a 'brother' think it's okay to descend on a CyB like the proverbial Assyrian wolf, accusing others of not being prepared to discuss, while your own level of patience for 'discussion' stretches to about three posts, before you start name-calling, rather than addressing the points which have been reasonably raised, with a comparably reasoned contribution.
If anyone makes it personal, it's yourself. I have yet to see one thread in which you have contributed to the topic, in which you have not taken the opportunity to throw in an unnecessarily personal jibe at a poster. Obviously you are aware that you do this, because you comment on it, calling it 'fun'. I guess we all have our weaknesses and pre-conditioning, and thank the Lord He's come into our lives to deliver us from them all! ;)
.
I'm serious about that. We all need a bit of temple made-without-hands preparation during this life, so that when we are placed in that eternal city, we are perfectly ready. But... I will be glad when you change all those jibes into silence, or, a positively edifying comment, instead.
1 Kings 6:7 And the house, when it was in building, was built of stone made ready before it was brought thither:
so that there was neither hammer nor axe [nor] any tool of iron heard in the house, while it was in building.
1 Peter 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood,
to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
Are you serious?
Go back and read all your own posts, and see what you have said about other people whom you hardly know. You yourself when posting to Rach justified giving a person ONE CHANCE, before you think it is okay to give tit for tat. How is that 'Xian'?
I have never said I was perfect, nor righteous. I'm on record saying exactly the opposite.
So let this be my public opinion voiced that you are a malicious presence here to impose your will and views on others and not a benefit to ANY conversation.
You again avoided the issues and made it personal.
Well it's more than three with him, and ONE is enough if they are doing what he is doing. he has a behavior that YOU SHOULD HAVE TALKED TO HIM ABOUT as he is undoubtedly "your brother". Since you didn't police your own family, and it was slapping me, I tried nicely, then progressively to reach to him in a way that he would understand and face. He's denied it. This doesn't change the fact that your position is encouraging, enabling his malicious behavior. YOu find it important for me to NOT note his ill behavior, but you won't address him on his ill behavior. Sorry, but that makes this personal against me.
I understand I have a more forward and blunt personality than you. I understand how personalities rub others the wrong way. I do not let that get in the way of the content though. You have been on the threshold of saying something to me fora while. You should have done it earlier. Confrontation isn't a bad thing. BAD confrontation is a bad thing.
My right to talk to him???? matt 18 is where I start. and who is CyB?
If I take the time to break down the full of my responses with him and you and show you that is an emotional not rational comment would you acknowledge it or shift focus and blame as best you can? I don't wanna waste my time when it won't accrue any benefit.
Then complain to the boss about me dragonfly. I've yet to see one topic you haven't presumed to have the right answers and avoided the arguments against you and just repeated your position, either. But that's how you are so why would I gripe about your nature. Let's take a poll of if I contribute to the topics or not..... Come on dragon fly you are on a pure emotional rant here, wanna back it up with reason? I'm willing to be wrong, is it even possible for you to be wrong?
If I make an argument, I give you reasons 1, 2, 3, why I put forward my conclusion. You come in and say, "You claimed to be perfect so why would we listen to you", and then I point out you went personal rather than stayed on the arguments, I have reached out PAST the petty petulance of the FUndagelical community to reason. You are here, now, slapping me for doing so. You stir my sympathetic emotions. I feel sorry for you and your view on the world. Someone in your past has traumatized you, so you react in this way. If I could take away that pain I would. But you need to handle it, I can't do it for you.
Yes I'm serious. It's Empiricaly proven. It's undeniable. That's EXACTLY what you are doing. You can shut up and introspect, consider it or just attack and lash out I don't care it's between you and God, But I have a whole forum of proof. If you want to put us all on trial here and it will change you if you are shown the error of your ways I'll waste my time. I'm willing to change. I can prove I am willing to change. But you have to show me I'm wrong, not just cry and whine and allow your "holy brothers" to get away with a worse offense than you are jumping me for. Do you realize how transparent that sorta move is? How aggendadized it is?
I have. I also have off line lurkers that do as well.
Their thoughts are, I'm way more tolerant than I should be with folks like Strat, and your passive aggressiveness.
The thing you have to ask yourself, are you more concerned with being right, or with getting to the truth.
For me it's the truth. I want the truth. When you vacate the arguments, to pick at me personally you left the discussion and I'll try to get you back. THAT is what you'll find. IF I EVER say a name to someone, it's because of behavior they have exhibited. IF the name identification is bad, then THE BEHAVIOR IS WORSE BY DEFINITION.
It's not bad to call a murderer a murderer. It's bad to use a name to discredit someone unjustly so you have an edge in people's perception from the conversation. It's called Ad Hominem.
Will you invest the time here? I'll reconcile this. It can only be good for everyone.
I'm interested how many would support your claim that I've never made a positive contribution in a thread that was on topic. I find such hyperbolic SINCERE claims to show your distance from reality.
And I also expected an emotional response. The narrow way is not about feelings. Jesus makes it clear that most will not be able to go the distance. But to throw a fit about it only makes you go farther afield. You are pouring water on your own offering. A little humility and a non-recourse to the all too carnal excuses would help to bring you closer to having the right heart attitude before God.
Getting back to the tread subject. Here is an example of someone experiencing spiritual things yet completely missing the purpose of that experience. It is one thing to enter into an experience and quite another to be renewed in the mind with the humility to be able to carry that experience in a way that honours God. It is said that discretion is the greater part of valour. It is also said that pride (and profiteering) go before a fall.
He should not be trying to make money out of it...using his profession as "cred". (credibility). IF he did experience something from God he should leave it there with God but allow his life to show the change.
Why should he not be able to make money? Its one thing to go apecrazy on it like crystal cathedral did, but there is no reason a person can't make money? The guy is telling his story.
Simon tried to request the healing powers of the spirit inappropriately, that's the closest we have to it biblically. Paul noted that teachers who traveled around were entitled, but at least in one instance he turned down money.
What if I am requested to speak in cali? I live in TX now, do you feel I am profiteering if they pay for my way, my room, and a per diem? If they take up an offering for me.... and I accepted do I deprive them of the gift of giving by refusing their gratitude?
What about missionaries who move to other countries. They are supported by people, errrr paid a salary, health care covered, money to retire on/401Ks etc.... are they worse than legion?
Simon tried to request the healing powers of the spirit inappropriately, that's the closest we have to it biblically. Paul noted that teachers who traveled around were entitled, but at least in one instance he turned down money.
What if I am requested to speak in cali? I live in TX now, do you feel I am profiteering if they pay for my way, my room, and a per diem? If they take up an offering for me.... and I accepted do I deprive them of the gift of giving by refusing their gratitude?
What about missionaries who move to other countries. They are supported by people, errrr paid a salary, health care covered, money to retire on/401Ks etc.... are they worse than legion?
Why should he not be able to make money? Its one thing to go apecrazy on it like crystal cathedral did, but there is no reason a person can't make money? The guy is telling his story.
Simon tried to request the healing powers of the spirit inappropriately, that's the closest we have to it biblically. Paul noted that teachers who traveled around were entitled, but at least in one instance he turned down money.
What if I am requested to speak in cali? I live in TX now, do you feel I am profiteering if they pay for my way, my room, and a per diem? If they take up an offering for me.... and I accepted do I deprive them of the gift of giving by refusing their gratitude?
What about missionaries who move to other countries. They are supported by people, errrr paid a salary, health care covered, money to retire on/401Ks etc.... are they worse than legion?
Simon tried to request the healing powers of the spirit inappropriately, that's the closest we have to it biblically. Paul noted that teachers who traveled around were entitled, but at least in one instance he turned down money.
What if I am requested to speak in cali? I live in TX now, do you feel I am profiteering if they pay for my way, my room, and a per diem? If they take up an offering for me.... and I accepted do I deprive them of the gift of giving by refusing their gratitude?
What about missionaries who move to other countries. They are supported by people, errrr paid a salary, health care covered, money to retire on/401Ks etc.... are they worse than legion?
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
wow - every time I come back to this board after a break, all I see is more fight between different combinations of people (no offense Strat, I know you are in the middle of it all - didn't mean to overlook your hard work).
All of this disagreement is moot anyway because it is based on a false dichotomy - compassion for people OR adherence to God's law at all cost. Of course, God's Mercy is His Justice and His Justice is His Mercy and the Sum of the Law is Love, so compassion for all people IS the right interpretation of the Law, which was written for people, not to enslave us; but I guess it is more fun to continue murmuring in the desert.......
At least Xtian Pugilist's name matches his purpose.
Perhaps I need a longer break
Carry on....
All of this disagreement is moot anyway because it is based on a false dichotomy - compassion for people OR adherence to God's law at all cost. Of course, God's Mercy is His Justice and His Justice is His Mercy and the Sum of the Law is Love, so compassion for all people IS the right interpretation of the Law, which was written for people, not to enslave us; but I guess it is more fun to continue murmuring in the desert.......
At least Xtian Pugilist's name matches his purpose.
Perhaps I need a longer break
Carry on....
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