The necessity of the Trinity

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brakelite

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we must say you're on fire this morning. yes, "He was in the world, and the world was made by him".

"MADE BY HM?", let's check the record. Acts 4:24 "And when they heard that, they lifted up their voice to God with one accord, and said, Lord, thou art God, which hast made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all that in them is".

THAT'S the "Lord", only the "L" is in caps. now this, Nehemiah 9:6 "Thou, even thou, art LORD alone; thou hast made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth, and all things that are therein, the seas, and all that is therein, and thou preservest them all; and the host of heaven worshippeth thee".

IT'S THE "LORD" ALL CAPS THAT MADE ALL THINGS.

now, the bible never makes a mistake. so the "Lord" is the "LORD" in flesh, John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:2 "The same was in the beginning with God.
John 1:3 "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Oh how easy it is to hear the TRUTH.

PICJAG.
The Father and Son, having the same divine "DNA" so to speak, share the same nature, are thus both deity, but are two distinct personalities, the Father having pre-eminence in rank and age.
The Father being the One God; the Son being also God because He inherited the life of the Father having been begotten by Him before the world began.
John did not say it was the God (the Father) who became flesh but ―the Word (John 1:14). As the scriptures also say
God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high‖ Hebrew 1:1-3
Here the Son is said to be the "express image" of God‘s person (Gr. hupostasis). This shows that as a personality He cannot be the same personality (personage) as the one of whom He is an image. This is only a reasonable conclusion to draw. Again we are talking in terms of two separate personalities, both of whom are God. This is a major part of the mystery of God. As the writer of Hebrews went on to say
But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. Hebrews 1:8
I can only reason that it is only possible for the Son to be truly God if He is begotten of God meaning God from God. In Hebrews 1:3, the Son is said to be the express image of the hupostasis of God, meaning the exact likeness of who and everything that God is. This is in keeping with the NEB translation of John 1:1 which says
When all things began, the word already was. The word dwelt with God and what God was, the word was. John 1:1 New English Bible
 

Harvest 1874

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A careful study of God’s Word and Christ’s teachings shows that only a limited number share the privilege of being born again, born ‘from water and from spirit,’ thus to share heavenly rulership with Christ. (John 3:3-5;Romans 8:16, 17; Revelation 14:1-3) The “great crowd” of true Christians today do not need to be born again, since their hope of everlasting life is earthly, not heavenly. (2 Peter 3:13;Revelation 21:3, 4) Furthermore, Christendom’s teaching is based on a false premise—that man has an immortal soul in need of salvation. Nowhere in the Bible is there support for such a doctrine, which is in fact derived from ancient Greek philosophy. Plus I see nothing in the scriptures that say people being born again is trinitarian or salvation is trinitarian.

We are in agreement with you that both the Trinitarian doctrine and the belief that man possesses an immortal soul is false (and we might add the third most widely held error in the nominal church, the doctrine of eternal torment as the wages of sin) all three of of theses errors stand in direct contradiction to the doctrine of the ransom.

The very foundation of all true Christian doctrine is theransom”, it is the scarlet thread running throughout the scriptures, the first principle, “the testby which all other doctrines either stand or fall, and unfortunately for these three they all fail the test and are therefore proved false. If the Lord’s professed people had thoroughly learned this first principle doctrine from the beginning they could have avoided these errors and all the confusion it has brought upon the professing church.

Nevertheless we are in disagreement with the Witnesses view on the Great Crowd or Company, we (Bible Students) hold it to be a heavenly class (those who failed to make their calling and election sure, but whom would not deny their Lord and so were caused to come up through great tribulation washing their robes, [robes which were only given to the begotten class, those invited to the wedding] in the blood of the lamb, and as such will serve God in his temple [the true Church, in heaven], however this disagreement between us is not grounds for division between us.
 

Harvest 1874

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Is that why the New World Translation deliberately corrupted John 1:1, so that they could continue teaching this heresy? If Jesus is not God, then you will have to pay for your own sins.

The text is not corrupted it is correctly translated, the professing church (the church nominal) refuses to accept the correct translation of the text because it exposes their error, it would take away one of their main supporting text for their false doctrine. Thus they chose to ignore it and continue in their heresy and blaspheme of both God and His Son our Lord Jesus Christ.
 
B

brakelite

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Here I quote a pastor and scholar who is not a trinitarian in the orthodox sense, but firmly believes in the deity of Christ and wrote a series of articles to prove it. Here is an excerpt that focuses on John 1:1-3.
The Bible very clearly says that Christ is God. The opening words of John‘s Gospel tell us
―In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.‖ John 1:1-3
That ―the Word‖ is Christ is beyond question. As John went on to say
―And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.‖ John 1:14
Whatever else we may make of John‘s opening words, we are told in no uncertain terms that Christ is God. The question is though, how is it possible for Christ to be God, yet at the same time be with God, the latter of whom most would readily identify as the Father? John himself provides the answer. Near the end of his Gospel he explains
―And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.‖ John 20:30-31
Here we are told the purpose of John‘s Gospel. It is to show that ―Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God‖. The ―signs‖ referred to here are some of the acts and the words of Christ that John, inspired by the Holy Spirit, selected to show that this is true. John‘s Gospel therefore is a divine theology. This is why it is so unlike the Gospels of Matthew, Mark and Luke. These latter accounts of the life of Christ, often referred to as the synoptic Gospels, had been written around 30 or 40 years previous to John writing his Gospel.
John‘s Gospel is amongst the last of the revelations that the church, through the Bible writers, would receive from God. Within it we find the most complete revelation of God to humanity. Many scholars estimate it to have been written near the end of the first century (c. AD 96). This was at a time when the church, although still in its infancy, was already under threat from false teachings. This
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was particularly regarding the identity and the nature of Christ. These erroneous teachings came from within the church and from without. John therefore would have been very careful when selecting the words he would write. This is why his Gospel, particularly with respect to Christ‘s personal identity, should be regarded as highly significant. It appears that John wrote his Gospel with the sole purpose of refuting these false teachings. The introduction of such teachings into the early church was something that the apostle Paul had warned would happen (Acts 20:27-30).
One source of these false teachings was a man named Cerinthus. The early church father Irenaeus (c. AD 130-202), in his work Adversus haereses (Against Heresies), wrote about the things Cerinthus taught (see particularly Book 1 chapter 26). From Irenaeus we learn that Cerinthus was contemporary with John, also that he was John‘s ‗arch-enemy‘. Irenaeus also relates that Cerinthus taught that Jesus was born of Joseph and Mary (not a virgin birth), also that the divine Christ had entered into the human Jesus at His baptism and had departed from Him at the crucifixion. Cerinthus is also said to have taught that the universe had not been created by the supreme Deity but had been brought into existence by a certain power (a demiurge) that did not know the true God. Unfortunately, no writings of Cerinthus have been preserved. This has led to some taking the opportunity to challenge the report of Irenaeus but because no hard evidence has been produced to prove him wrong, there is no real reason to doubt what he wrote. Cerinthus is also spoken of extensively in The Panarion. This is a work, by the 4th century writer Epiphanius of Salamis, also written against heresies.
Another source of these false teachings was a group known as the Docetae (the illusionists). They were part of a larger group known as the Gnostics.
The Gnostics regarded themselves as the learned ones (the intellectuals). They claimed to have a secret (mystical) knowledge beyond the simplicity of the Scriptures. Rather than a simple faith in the Word of God, they embraced the idea of salvation through knowledge. Gnosticism was not a sect or a group. More than anything else it was intellectual philosophy. It was a serious threat to Christianity. It is still the same today. There is always the danger of rationalism taking the place of a simple faith in the things that God, through His Word, has made known to us.
The Docetae reasoned that divinity would not mingle with sinful humanity, so according to their reasoning, the body of Jesus was a mere phantasm (not real). Both Cerinthus and the Docetae concluded therefore that the divine Son of God had not really become flesh: also that a divine person had not suffered or died at Calvary.
 
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brakelite

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Satan had failed to defeat Christ. He could not undo what Christ, through His life and death on earth, had accomplished, so he attempted to pervert it. This he purposed to do through these and other false teachers. Since then he has continued to pursue his objective.
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It can now be seen why John began his Gospel by saying that the Word was God (1:1); that from the beginning the Word had been with God (1:2); that the Word had created all things (1:3); that the Word had become flesh (1:14). It can also be seen why John wrote that the divine Son of God was the One who knew God and had declared Him (1:18). It is hardly surprising that almost one half of John‘s Gospel is taken up with the events of the Passion Week - which culminated of course with the death of Christ at Calvary (John 12:1-19:42).
It is also said that the first two of John‘s little letters (1 and 2 John) were written to combat these false teachings. Certainly there is a striking resemblance between the prologue of John‘s Gospel (John 1:1-18) and these letters. In his letters, John emphasised that Christ had come ―in the flesh‖. The importance John places on this can be seen in these words
―And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.‖ 1 John 4:3
―For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.‖ 2 John 1:7
John is the only Bible writer who uses the word ―antichrist‖. We can see from the above how he makes the application (see also 1 John 2:18 and 4:3). He also wrote (regarding antichrist)
―Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.‖ 1 John 2:22
From the above we can see very clearly the problem that John was addressing. It was the same problem as he was addressing at the opening of his Gospel (see John 1:1, 14)
John also emphasised that as Christians ―we know‖ (see 1 John 2:3, 2:10, 3:2, 3:14, 3:19, 3:24). This was an experiential knowledge This was in contrast to the philosophical knowledge of the Gnostics. This is why John could say
―That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;‖ 1 John 1:1
This is very similar to the opening of his Gospel (John 1:1). Notice that John says ―our hands‖ have ―handled‖ the Word. John was identifying himself with all the others who had actually been with Christ during His time on earth. These had been the eyewitnesses to Christ‘s life, death and resurrection..

More thoughts on John 1:1
―In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.‖ John 1:1
The words of John 1:1 are probably the most debated in Scripture. Volumes have been written attempting to explain them. Most of the discussions concern what John meant by the phrase ―and the Word was God‖. Some have said that John meant to say that Christ was divine or had a divine nature but the fact is if this is what he wanted to say then other Greek words were available to Him. One of these, amongst others, is θεῖορ (theios). The beloved physician Luke wrote (note the difference in the three translations of this same verse)
―Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead [θεῖορ – theios] is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.‖ Acts 17:29 KJV
"Being then the children of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature [θεῖορ – theios] is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by the art and thought of man.‖ Acts 17:29) NASB
―So, since we are children of God, we shouldn't suppose that God's essence [θεῖορ – theios] resembles gold, silver or stone shaped by human technique and imagination.‖ Acts 17:29 The Complete Jewish Bible
In order to translate θεῖορ, both the New American Standard Bible and the Complete Jewish Bible, like other modern translations, do not use the word Godhead. Instead they say ―Divine Nature‖ and ―God‘s essence‖ etc. The word θεῖορ therefore, if John had wanted to use it, was available to him. In fact it is quite possible that John had read what Luke had written. It is also possible he had read the other Gospels, also what Paul and Peter had written. Remember, John‘s Gospel was written around the end of the 1st century. Notice how this same Greek word (θεῖορ) is translated here
―According as his divine [θεῖορ] power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature [θεῖορ], having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.:‖ 2 Peter 1:3-4
As we can see, Peter refers to ―divine nature [θεῖορ]‖. If at John 1:1c John had only meant to say that Christ had a divine nature then this is the way he could have written it. As it was he used theos. This is the same word, although without the definite article, that he used at John 1b. Even if John had written that Christ was divine (or had a divine nature etc.), it would still mean that He is God. Someone cannot have a divine nature and not be God. Pertaining to personal beings we are only aware of three classes of nature. This is divine nature, the
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nature of angels, and human nature. In His pre-existence, Christ was none of the latter two therefore He could only be divine. In personality though, He was not the Father. He was the Son of God.
Some have maintained that because John said ―the Word was with God (ηὸν Θεόν – ton theon), which can be translated as ‗the Word was with the God‘, that when He wrote, ―the Word was God (Θεὸρ - theos)‖ (without the definite article), he is saying that ―the Word‖ is not actually God. This I believe is a misunderstanding of the thought that the Holy Spirit was leading John to convey. I believe that John was ensuring that his readers would take him to mean that the Word was God but not the same person as the Father. To put it another way: John was delineating between God the Father (whom the Word was with) and the Word (who became flesh) yet saying at the same time they were both God.
Quite recently I came across a study of John 1:1 that I found very interesting. It pointed out that in John‘s writings alone (John, 1 John, 2 John, 3 John and the Revelation), there are a total of 252 usages of theos. The study also noted that 22 of these are without the definite article (John 1:1c, 1:6, 12, 13, 18, 3:2, 21, 6:45, 8:54, 9:16, 33, 13:3, 16:30, 19:7, 20:17(2), 1 John 3:2, 4:12, 2 John 3, 9 and Revelation 21:7) yet all are translated God. Four of the instances (not counting John 1:1) are in the prologue to John‘s Gospel (verses 1:1-18). Never though would we think of any of these as referring to anyone except God Himself: neither would we say any should be understood in a qualitative sense. The conclusion is therefore that the absence of the article does not necessarily mean that it has to be preceded by an indefinite article (in English), neither does it necessitate the word simply being regarded as qualitative. Many other factors, far beyond the scope of this article, need to be taken into consideration.
There is another very important point to consider here. This is that because of the context in which a word is used it can change in meaning. A word does not mean exactly the same every time it is used. This applies to any language. This is certainly the case in English. When determining what an author means by the use of a particular word, context is the all-important factor.
John was the only Gospel writer to use the word ‗theos‘ with respect to Jesus. As we noted above, John‘s Gospel is a divine theology. Concerning the identity of Christ it was amongst the final revelations that God, through the Bible writers, would give to man. In this respect it should be studied with eager anticipation.
 
B

brakelite

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The above excerpt is from a much more extensive study pertaining to the deity of Christ, entitled "Is Christ God?" I would be happy to forward the whole article to anyone interested. Remember though, while the writer firmly upholds the divine nature of Christ...His deity...the writer does not hold to the orthodox version of the trinity as taught by most churches today. I think his studies into the topic are well worth your perusal.
 

APAK

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You need to study independently apart from JW indoctrination, if you value your soul. Jesus is YAHWEH. Thai is what the name Jesus Christ means.

JESUS IS JEHOVAH (Yahweh).

Isa 40:3 The voice of one who calls out, “Prepare the way of Yahweh in the wilderness! Make a level highway in the desert for our God.

Now compare that to:

Mat 3:3 For this is he who was spoken of by Isaiah the prophet, saying, “The voice of one crying in the wilderness, make ready the way of the Lord. Make his paths straight.”

John was preaching Jesus, the Old Testament Yahweh according to Isaiah 40:3.

Again:

Num 21:5 The people spoke against God, and against Moses, “Why have you brought us up out of Egypt to die in the wilderness? For there is no bread, and there is no water; and our soul loathes this disgusting bread.”
6 Yahweh sent venomous snakes among the people, and they bit the people. Many people of Israel died.

Compare to:

1Cor 10:9 Let’s not test Christ, as some of them tested, and perished by the serpents.

And, again:

Gen 2:4 This is the history of the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that Yahweh God made the earth and the heavens.

John 1:3 All things were made through him. Without him was not anything made that has been made.

There it is, three times. The Old Testament says Yahweh did it, the New Testament says Jesus did it.

The only logical conclusion is to see that Jesus is Yahweh and Yahweh is Jesus.

Borrowed from Tom Cassidy

David L. I see you are twisting and turning and adding your own ingredients into scripture again to idolize your golden calf at the foot of the Holy Mountain of YHWH.

You know what happened to those folks?! They never made it to the Promised land…

You said.” John was preaching Jesus, the Old Testament Yahweh according to Isaiah 40:3.”

Definitely not!

Isaiah 50:3 is definitely about YHWH (OT and NT and beyond), Matt 3:3 is all about the Son of YHWH, of Jesus who definitely has a Father. Scripture is clear on this point; you have corrupted the meaning of this scripture with your idol worship that keeps blinding you from seeing the TRUTH of YHWH.

The OT spoke of how YHWH was going to bring salvation to his people through a future begotten Son. It is littered with this theme.

Abraham knew this quite well. He had no problem understanding that YHWH would create a human being in the future who would be conceived full of his Spirit (YHWH); becoming the permanent and physical sacrifice to bring mankind back into spiritual union again with himself, YHWH. He even rejoiced in it. Abraham never for a moment thought his God would turn himself into a human being and die himself, on the cross. Then to spring back up to live again and say, well this sacrifice was just an exercise to show you I cannot die as I am all powerful. You are making a mockery of scripture! Do you really know the significance of why Jesus had to be human being and never his own Father which is stupid even saying this anyway, and his Father then had to raise him back to life? I seem to think not.


BL: You cannot really believe in the true Son of God who was on this terra firma, who was born a human being (the Son of Man) and full of his Father’s Spirit (Son of God).


You believe in a Triune non-descript god, your own idol.


It is not part of scripture from YHWH, it is scripture from your Triune God. That you must pray to then…


Bless you,


APAK
 

101G

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GINOLJC, TO ALL.
The Father and Son, having the same divine "DNA" so to speak, share the same nature, are thus both deity, but are two distinct personalities, the Father having pre-eminence in rank and age.
if the "WORD" is distinct, please explain how the bible says, the "WORD" (the Lord) made all things, (John 1:2) and at the same time the bible states that the (LORD), all caps made all things?. now if they are distinct how can that be, when the bible clearly states that the "LORD" was alone and by himself whan he made all things?.

and two, according to Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: "Equal with God?. but God who is described as "him" a single designation, meaning one PERSON in Isaiah 40:18 canno0t be two distinct personalities, for he is one Person, listen. Isaiah 40:18 "To whom then will ye liken God? or what likeness will ye compare unto him?
or this statement by God himself, Isaiah 46:5 "To whom will ye liken me, and make me equal, and compare me, that we may be like?".
Clearly from this statement by God himself eliminate any possibility of any "two distinct personalities" of God. so any co-equal personalities is not of God.

and three, God have no "age" nor rank. he's eternal... ageless. and he's God alone, and there is not God beside him. Isaiah 44:8 "Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any". again God knows no one beside himself as God. again that statement by God himself, eliminate any Co-equal personalities of God. so a second, or third person of God is not bible.


we ask that you consider your reply in light of this.

PICJAG.
 
B

brakelite

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GINOLJC, TO ALL.

if the "WORD" is distinct, please explain how the bible says, the "WORD" (the Lord) made all things, (John 1:2) and at the same time the bible states that the (LORD), all caps made all things?. now if they are distinct how can that be, when the bible clearly states that the "LORD" was alone and by himself whan he made all things?.

and two, according to Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: "Equal with God?. but God who is described as "him" a single designation, meaning one PERSON in Isaiah 40:18 canno0t be two distinct personalities, for he is one Person, listen. Isaiah 40:18 "To whom then will ye liken God? or what likeness will ye compare unto him?
or this statement by God himself, Isaiah 46:5 "To whom will ye liken me, and make me equal, and compare me, that we may be like?".
Clearly from this statement by God himself eliminate any possibility of any "two distinct personalities" of God. so any co-equal personalities is not of God.

and three, God have no "age" nor rank. he's eternal... ageless. and he's God alone, and there is not God beside him. Isaiah 44:8 "Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any". again God knows no one beside himself as God. again that statement by God himself, eliminate any Co-equal personalities of God. so a second, or third person of God is not bible.


we ask that you consider your reply in light of this.

PICJAG.
Hebrews 1:1-3 explains everything you question above...you chose however to ignore it in the post you quoted.
 
D

Dave L

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David L. I see you are twisting and turning and adding your own ingredients into scripture again to idolize your golden calf at the foot of the Holy Mountain of YHWH.

You know what happened to those folks?! They never made it to the Promised land…

You said.” John was preaching Jesus, the Old Testament Yahweh according to Isaiah 40:3.”

Definitely not!

Isaiah 50:3 is definitely about YHWH (OT and NT and beyond), Matt 3:3 is all about the Son of YHWH, of Jesus who definitely has a Father. Scripture is clear on this point; you have corrupted the meaning of this scripture with your idol worship that keeps blinding you from seeing the TRUTH of YHWH.

The OT spoke of how YHWH was going to bring salvation to his people through a future begotten Son. It is littered with this theme.

Abraham knew this quite well. He had no problem understanding that YHWH would create a human being in the future who would be conceived full of his Spirit (YHWH); becoming the permanent and physical sacrifice to bring mankind back into spiritual union again with himself, YHWH. He even rejoiced in it. Abraham never for a moment thought his God would turn himself into a human being and die himself, on the cross. Then to spring back up to live again and say, well this sacrifice was just an exercise to show you I cannot die as I am all powerful. You are making a mockery of scripture! Do you really know the significance of why Jesus had to be human being and never his own Father which is stupid even saying this anyway, and his Father then had to raise him back to life? I seem to think not.


BL: You cannot really believe in the true Son of God who was on this terra firma, who was born a human being (the Son of Man) and full of his Father’s Spirit (Son of God).


You believe in a Triune non-descript god, your own idol.


It is not part of scripture from YHWH, it is scripture from your Triune God. That you must pray to then…


Bless you,


APAK
You cannot understand Christ until you understand the doctrine of the trinity. So much of this will remain a mystery to you.
 
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Enoch111

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The text is not corrupted it is correctly translated...
How can it be correctly translated when the word theos (God) has been made into "a god" (a lesser god)? There are no such things as other gods. But there are plenty of false pagan gods who are demons.
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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Yes it is true, it's a fact just like gravity is a fact. You can disagree all you want to and you may convince others a fact isn't true but not me. Like I said in previous posts they have found fragments of the LXX translation that date back to the days of Jesus and the Apostles and in those fragments of the LXX translation it has the four Hebrew characters that represented the personal name of The True God. The four Hebrew characters weren't replaced by the word, "Lord." The copy of the LXX Translation you're talking about dates back to the third or fourth century and yes the four Hebrew characters have been replaced with the word lord in that copy of the LXX Translation.
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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What people think of Jehovah witness I could care less. The baptist and penetcostal churches I went to cared little about teaching anything about the scriptures and because of that these religions that I became involved in, meaning the baptist and penetcostal churches were teaching Jesus is God, not that he is the only begotten Son of God. It's never been hard for me to believe the only begotten Son of God to be the Word and therefore when the scriptures tell us that the word became flesh, it's not hard to understand that the only begotten Son of God became flesh. You and Christendom and all those non-denominational religions want me to DENY that it was the Only begotten Son of God who became flesh and came to this world as a human, a perfect human but a human. That those such as you and Christendom and the non-denominational churches want me to DENY that it was the Only begotten Son of God that was sent to this world(John 3:16) instead you want me to believe it was God who sent himself to this world. I will never DENY like you, that it was the only begotten Son of God, who is the word, who became flesh, who died for me, who was resurrected by God three days after his death.
As long as I exercise faith in this Loving act that both the True God Jehovah and his Only begotten Son Jesus did for me I will get eternal life.[/QUOTE]
 
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BARNEY BRIGHT

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Thomaston Georgia
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
We are in agreement with you that both the Trinitarian doctrine and the belief that man possesses an immortal soul is false (and we might add the third most widely held error in the nominal church, the doctrine of eternal torment as the wages of sin) all three of of theses errors stand in direct contradiction to the doctrine of the ransom.

The very foundation of all true Christian doctrine is theransom”, it is the scarlet thread running throughout the scriptures, the first principle, “the testby which all other doctrines either stand or fall, and unfortunately for these three they all fail the test and are therefore proved false. If the Lord’s professed people had thoroughly learned this first principle doctrine from the beginning they could have avoided these errors and all the confusion it has brought upon the professing church.

Nevertheless we are in disagreement with the Witnesses view on the Great Crowd or Company, we (Bible Students) hold it to be a heavenly class (those who failed to make their calling and election sure, but whom would not deny their Lord and so were caused to come up through great tribulation washing their robes, [robes which were only given to the begotten class, those invited to the wedding] in the blood of the lamb, and as such will serve God in his temple [the true Church, in heaven], however this disagreement between us is not grounds for division between us.

I understand what you believe concerning the great crowd and yes we are in disagreement. One of the reasons we don't believe all believers will have a heavenly calling is that we honestly don't believe that God will destroy this planet into Oblivion as so many people do today. We honestly believe and the scriptures we believe confirm this that God created the planet to stand forever and for it to be inhabited forever. We believe this planet to be a Paradise one day, no wars, no sickness or old age, no dying, no hunger, everyone will have a home, no one homeless