The Ones Who Are Left…

[Truth7t7]

ummm, I don’t think so…

20 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven with the key to the bottomless pitand a heavy chain in his hand. 2 He seized the dragon—that old serpent, who is the devil, Satan—and bound him in chains for a thousand years. 3 The angel threw him into the bottomless pit, which he then shut and locked so Satan could not deceive the nations anymore until the thousand years were finished. Afterward he must be released for a little while.

4 Then I saw thrones, and the people sitting on them had been given the authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony about Jesus and for proclaiming the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his statue, nor accepted his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They all came to life again, and they reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

5 This is the first resurrection. (The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years had ended.) 6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. For them the second death holds no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him a thousand years.

We will disagree, the scripture is very simple and easy to understand

"All That Are In The Graves Shall Hear His Voice And Come Forth, "Not Some"

There is one time of resurrection for all, this takes place on the (Last Day) at the Second Coming of Jesus Christ

There are (Two) resurrections on this (Last Day) the righteous are blessed to be in the (First Resurrection) to eternal life, on such the (Second) death resurrection has no power.

1.) (First) Resurrection To Life
2.) (Second) Resurrection To Damnation, The Second Death

Revelation 20:6KJV
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The (Last Day) Resurrection Of All Below

John 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

1 Corinthians 15:21-24KJV
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

The (Last Day) Judgement

John 12:48KJV
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

 

[Truth7t7]

You posted all this garbage oin a different thread and I showed form Scripture why you are wrong there. You wrongly put scruptures together, you reinterpret scriupture without any authority or biblical warrant.

You were wron gon that thread and you are wrong today!

Revelation 20
King James Version

20 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

The two resurrections take place 1,000 years apart as SCripture says, not all your gobbledy gook you tried to make it say on the other thread.

You call ed it the church age, eternal time, one day, but you hasve completey failed to show biblically why we should not accept this thousand years of saints reigning with Jesus and resurrections separated by a literal 1,000 years. You just keep vomiting th esame pap over

Teacher, Bully On The Playground, "Help"!

Can you find the things claimed by those teaching a Literal 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom On This Earth in Revelation 20:1-6 below?

1.) Physical Earthly Kingdom?
2.) Physical Earthly Throne?
3.) Physical Mortal Humans?

The Above Claims (Don't Exist)

Revelation 20:1-6 Is 100% In The Lords (Spiritual) Angel, Heaven, Devil, Satan, The Souls, The Dead, God, Christ

100% Spiritual Realm, No "Literal" Time

2 Peter 3:8KJV
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Revelation 20:1-6KJV
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

 

[Bruce Atkinson]

Oh dear! I see so much confusion in this thread.

I'll start off with Galatians 4:4-7
Gal 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
Gal 4:5 To redeem them that were under the law (Israel), that we (us believers) might receive the adoption of sons.
Gal 4:6 And because ye (us believers) are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
Gal 4:7 Wherefore thou (us believers) art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ. (KJV) (parenthesized items are my insertions)

Clearly, Jesus was born under the law, lived his entire life under the law, and all His teachings and parables are directed to those under the law.
In actuality, He was here to fulfill all that the prophets said the Messiah would be...to Israel only!

In the Gospels, he only deals with 2.5 gentiles: The Canaanite woman in Matthew 15:22-24 where He answered: "I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel." but healed her anyway; The Roman centurion and his servant in Matthew 8:5-13 and Luke 7:2-10; and the Samaritan woman at the well (1/2 Jew) in John 4:3-30.

He even commanded his disciples to NOT go to Gentiles and Samaritans in Matthew 10:5
Mat 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: (KJV)

Stated differently, Jesus earthly ministry was directed at Israel only...NOT gentiles.

No one should take a single passage in isolation (as you are trying to do) to build a doctrine. Furthermore, a parable should not become the basis for Bible doctrine. So what the Lord was teaching was AT THE END OF THE AGE the unsaved (indeed the children of the devil meaning the wicked) will be gathered before the Great White Throne (not mentioned but implied) and then cast into the Lake of Fire. Revelation 20 gives us the full picture.

As to "the dead in Christ will rise first", that is simply the sequence of events. For all practically purposes, the Resurrection/Rapture is ONE SINGLE EVENT if you put the various passages together.

It's not that we can treat a single passage in the 4 Gospels as doctrine, we can't get ANY doctrine out of the 4 Gospels! Our doctrine is 100% from Pauls' letters, NOT the Gospels! Mixing the Gospels - all directed towards Israel only - with Pauls' letters (except Hebrews) - directed to we Christian believers - is a sure fire way to end up totally confused, as this thread seems to me.

Well I am a dyed in teh wool unabashed unapologetic dispensationalist and in the Matthew Passages I do not see two returns.

Jesus returns to earth but once.

The rapture is not part of HIs return as He only descends to at closest, the atmosphere.

The two Matthew Passages as wqell as the Matthew 25 seperating of teh sheep and goats, refcer to entrance in to the millenial kingdom on earth.

The unrighteous will go to teh placeof torments awaiting the lake of fire 1,000+ years later and the rightoues gathered on the earth will be welcomed in to teh millenial kingdom.

The end of the age and th estart of etnity is not pictureds in any of these parables.

I agree with Mr Nolette 100% on this...Jesus returns to earth but once - AFTER the tribulation. One cannot consider the rapture of the church a 'return' as he is in the clouds, not 'touching down' at the Mount of Olives at the end of the tribulation per Zechariah 14:4
Zec 14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south. (KJV).

Regarding the rapture of the believers in Pauls letters, I'm not sure whether those in the graves will rise a split second before those who are alive or will it be spread out over 1-2 seconds...or minutes...or even hours? Will we all rise together or 'single file', in groups, or??? I don't know. All I do know is that individually, we'll be changed in the twinkling of an eye. But all at once? However, one cannot underestimate the power of God almighty who created the heavens and the earth with just his voice (Jesus). Could He not raise everyone from the graves and alive in the blink of an eye? Again, it's Jesus that comes for us. He, the Living Word, is speaking directly TO us!

Addressing Matthew 25:31-46, the sheep and the goats, like all the Gospels, are directed to Israel only! Those under the law, ie, all of Israel since Moses, are redeemed by FAITH PLUS WORKS. Jesus is talking about the sheep that came to him, fed him, clothed him, etc. My friend the Catholic is of the same belief. Those that did nothing to the least of these (the goats), are eternally doomed. Christians are saved by FAITH ALONE, without works! See 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 and Ephesians 2:8-9.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. (KJV)

 

[stunnedbygrace]

We will disagree, the scripture is very simple and easy to understand

"All That Are In The Graves Shall Hear His Voice And Come Forth, "Not Some"

There is one time of resurrection for all, this takes place on the (Last Day) at the Second Coming of Jesus Christ

There are (Two) resurrections on this (Last Day) the righteous are blessed to be in the (First Resurrection) to eternal life, on such the (Second) death resurrection has no power.

1.) (First) Resurrection To Life
2.) (Second) Resurrection To Damnation, The Second Death

Revelation 20:6KJV
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The (Last Day) Resurrection Of All Below

John 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

1 Corinthians 15:21-24KJV
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

The (Last Day) Judgement

John 12:48KJV
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

Okay, just ignore the other verse then. I’m okay with that.

 

[Truth7t7]

Okay, just ignore the other verse then. I’m okay with that.

I Disagree Again, No Other Verses Were Ignored, Feel Free To Post Your Claim, Waiting?

 

[Naomi25]

I've heard many of those old time preachers that really don't know what The Word of God says because they're always busy talking about how somebody in The Bible must have felt. They think being concerned about what somebody feels more important than the Message our Heavenly Father was giving. And afterall, when the prophets say, "The LORD saith...", it's not the prophet speaking, but God Himself.

I do agree that there can be a tend…whether its in ‘old time’ preachers, or ‘new time relevance’ that would lead people to not heed the word as inerrant and divine. Which it is…which it must be regarded as and protected as.
But, there can be great value in considering those God chose and used TO write his inerrant word. We can imagine if he’d inspired the bible today…there are many cultural references and events that would hold meaning to us…meanings that would make the truths he shared through his ‘prophets and apostles’ have even greater significance and relevance. I don’t think its a bad thing for us today to attempt to put ourselves in the place and understanding of both audience and writers of scriptures, in order to view those eternal truths God gave them in the light the original audience received them. It might not fundamentally change them, but it could give them a new depth and flavour that is beautiful.

 

[Naomi25]

understood. for sake of conversation, it may be a crazy thought, but consider “come down” In …”They are described a ‘holy ones’, who ‘come down’. Not just a simple ‘angelic messenger’.” What does “not earthly wisdom but heavenly wisdom which comes down from above” mean? What is to be born from above of God, to “come down” from above? Is it possible the coming down from above has something to do “to come down from above” in submission to God in “to come down” that all things whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven, in subjection to Him as the Head. Colossians 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

You mentioned “watchers” that “come down” what is to “come down”? “Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;” what is to “come down” from above if not James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

Hebrews 2:8-11 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him. [9] But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man. [10] For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings. [11] For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,

What is to be born from above, to come down from above? Elusive or “spiritual wickedness in high places” in “But now we see not yet all things put under him.” Yet “come down” from above for “Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet”

consider to be born of God, to come down from above …may be the very thing despised and avoided at all cost; the message of to “come down from above” that all things in heaven and on earth be in subjection under His feet.

Well…with the full proviso that I may have missed your point….

If to ‘come down’ was to humble oneself before God, what about all the fallen angelic ones, even Princes or watchers, who still do not bow the knee?
Although, I suppose there could be a distinction between ‘come down’ and ‘cast down’…which seems likely. I suppose that’s where the “until” all things are put in subjection under his feet comes in..?

 

[Naomi25]

The Matt. 13 parable specifically is about the judgment to take place at Jesus return. It is the same as the sheep and goat in Matt. 25. It is for those to enter the kingdom and for th elost to go to the place of torment awaiting being cast into teh lake of fire 1,000 years later.

Mentioning th erapture is neither here nor there. the rapture is its own event that is not conditioned on anything nor tied to anything. The only reason why it is an end time event now is because we are living in the end times. Many dispensationalists in talking abou tthe rapture colloquially but erroneously refer to it as part 1 of Jesus return, which it is not.

The church is promised to be delivered from the wrath of the tribulation which is why the rapute has to be pre trib. We must undergo the bema seat judgment to have our works rewarded or burnt. Then after that we receive our crowns and white linen and we are seen in heaven in REv. 20 to be wed to Jesus in heaven prior to His return.

You know, I don’t know that I’ve ever heard that about the Rapture before…that its not strictly an ‘end time’ event.

If I may ask a question? How can you know that the ‘wrath’ we are promised to avoid, is ‘tribulation’ wrath…and not the wrath of eternal destruction that is coming upon those who are not saved?
Thanks!

 

[Naomi25]

Reading the above replies to Naomi, it is seen that the spirit replied not for clarifying or even to correspond to the expectative of Naomi in to be understood by her words, quite the contrary, the spirit that was manifested tried to confound Naomi with desnecessary question and with evasive arguments, unfortunatelly. Then Naomi counterposes saying that "Jesus spoke to the world" , she meant JESUS spoke to the whole world according *Matthew 28:v.19, but again the spirit replied with evasise manifestation, whose answer was/is good for nothing.

JESUS said: Matthew 28:v.18-19
18 All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth;
*19 Go ye therefore, and teach ALL NATIONS, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the END of the world. (What world? The whole world of Devil in the Planet Earth as a whole. This is what Naomi meant. Is this "amazing" for you?)

Ok..so. It seems I have inadvertently stepped into a conversation that is not mine. Or been bought into it. I fully confess that I am unsure of the reason behind ‘Waiting on hims’ question and response to my post….however. I prefer if you did NOT try and interpret what I ‘meant’. At least without actually speaking to me.

What I MEANT, when I said “Jesus spoke to the World”, is, unsurprisingly….”Jesus spoke to the World”.
Why?
It SAYS it.

John 18:20
[20] Jesus answered him, “I have spoken openly to the world. I have always taught in synagogues and in the temple, where all Jews come together. I have said nothing in secret.

If we wish to consider what Christ might have meant by ‘I have spoken openly to the world’, there are various thoughts put forward by scholars. But, foremost in our consideration should be scripture itself.

Colossians 1:5-6
[5] because of the hope laid up for you in heaven. Of this you have heard before in the word of the truth, the gospel, [6] which has come to you, as indeed in the whole world it is bearing fruit and increasing—as it also does among you, since the day you heard it and understood the grace of God in truth,

Now, as far spread as Paul himself took the gospel, we can hardly say that it was flourishing in ‘the whole world’. It just wasn’t. So clearly ‘world’ is somehow equated with ‘Middle East/Asia Minor’. The heartbeat of the prophetic land…comic geography. And while Jesus specifically commands us to take it outwards ‘to the ENDS of the earth’…to all places, biblically, we can look at John 18:20 and say that when Jesus declared he had spoken to the world, he had done so. Both in a cosmic geography way, and in a way where his own disciples would see the commission filled later.

NOW…that you are aware of what I mean…you may continue your word war. Which I in no way want a part of.
Cheers.

 

[Enoch111]

It's not that we can treat a single passage in the 4 Gospels as doctrine, we can't get ANY doctrine out of the 4 Gospels! Our doctrine is 100% from Pauls' letters, NOT the Gospels! Mixing the Gospels - all directed towards Israel only - with Pauls' letters (except Hebrews) - directed to we Christian believers - is a sure fire way to end up totally confused, as this thread seems to me.

I believe you are the one who is confused. If we cannot get any doctrine from the Gospels then it is a sad state of affairs for people who hold to such a nonsensical view. If the words and teachings of Christ are not the foundation of the rest of the NT, then you are seriously in error. If John chapter 3 is not the basis for the Gospel and Christian truth, then obviously you need to have someone sit down with you and lead you to the truth. Paul simply builds on Christ, and calls His the true Foundation.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I Disagree Again, No Other Verses Were Ignored, Feel Free To Post Your Claim, Waiting?

oh no you don’t! Lol. I’m too busy to repeat myself just because you’re too lazy to read!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Ok..so. It seems I have inadvertently stepped into a conversation that is not mine. Or been bought into it. I fully confess that I am unsure of the reason behind ‘Waiting on hims’ question and response to my post….however. I prefer if you did NOT try and interpret what I ‘meant’. At least without actually speaking to me.

What I MEANT, when I said “Jesus spoke to the World”, is, unsurprisingly….”Jesus spoke to the World”.
Why?
It SAYS it.

John 18:20
[20] Jesus answered him, “I have spoken openly to the world. I have always taught in synagogues and in the temple, where all Jews come together. I have said nothing in secret.

If we wish to consider what Christ might have meant by ‘I have spoken openly to the world’, there are various thoughts put forward by scholars. But, foremost in our consideration should be scripture itself.

Colossians 1:5-6
[5] because of the hope laid up for you in heaven. Of this you have heard before in the word of the truth, the gospel, [6] which has come to you, as indeed in the whole world it is bearing fruit and increasing—as it also does among you, since the day you heard it and understood the grace of God in truth,

Now, as far spread as Paul himself took the gospel, we can hardly say that it was flourishing in ‘the whole world’. It just wasn’t. So clearly ‘world’ is somehow equated with ‘Middle East/Asia Minor’. The heartbeat of the prophetic land…comic geography. And while Jesus specifically commands us to take it outwards ‘to the ENDS of the earth’…to all places, biblically, we can look at John 18:20 and say that when Jesus declared he had spoken to the world, he had done so. Both in a cosmic geography way, and in a way where his own disciples would see the commission filled later.

NOW…that you are aware of what I mean…you may continue your word war. Which I in no way want a part of.
Cheers.

I think you misunderstood what this person was saying. English doesn’t appear to be his first language. I think he was trying to say that he thinks someone was asking an unnecessary question of you and that they were asking it in a wrong spirit?

 

[Truth7t7]

oh no you don’t! Lol. I’m too busy to repeat myself just because you’re too lazy to read!

The final judgement and resurrection of all takes place at the same time, there's no 1,000 year time period gap seen below

"All That Are In The Graves" Its That Simple

John 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Okay, like I said, you can just ignore the other verse. I don’t do that. I am tenacious and want it to all fit together.

 

[Truth7t7]

Okay, like I said, you can just ignore the other verse. I don’t do that. I am tenacious and want it to all fit together.

"We Will Disagree", Jesus Is The Lord

The scripture is very simple and easy to understand

There is one time of resurrection for all, this takes place on the (Last Day) at the Second Coming of Jesus Christ

There are (Two) resurrections on this (Last Day) the righteous are blessed to be in the (First Resurrection) to eternal life, on such the (Second) death resurrection has no power.

1.) (First) Resurrection To Life
2.) (Second) Resurrection To Damnation, The Second Death

Revelation 20:6KJV
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The (Last Day) Resurrection Of All Below

John 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

1 Corinthians 15:21-24KJV
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

The (Last Day) Judgement

John 12:48KJV
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Lol…

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Teacher, Bully On The Playground, "Help"!

Can you find the things claimed by those teaching a Literal 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom On This Earth in Revelation 20:1-6 below?

1.) Physical Earthly Kingdom?
2.) Physical Earthly Throne?
3.) Physical Mortal Humans?

The Above Claims (Don't Exist)

Revelation 20:1-6 Is 100% In The Lords (Spiritual) Angel, Heaven, Devil, Satan, The Souls, The Dead, God, Christ

100% Spiritual Realm, No "Literal" Time

2 Peter 3:8KJV
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Revelation 20:1-6KJV
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Have written to you all the biblical verses showing there is a literal earthly kingdom and that REv. 20 shows it lasts a literal 1,000 years.

If you didn't bother to read them the first time, why should I dfo all the work to post them a second time?

Now prove that 2 Peter 3:8 is not a metaphor but was a statement to be issud as literal doctrine for counting every time 1,000 years appears in SCripture. It is constructeds as making a comparison. Just because you reject keeping this statement in the context it was being written in, does not make it Gods doctrine. It may make it yours, but deinitely not Gods.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

You know, I don’t know that I’ve ever heard that about the Rapture before…that its not strictly an ‘end time’ event.

If I may ask a question? How can you know that the ‘wrath’ we are promised to avoid, is ‘tribulation’ wrath…and not the wrath of eternal destruction that is coming upon those who are not saved?
Thanks!

To answer:

Never in Scripture is th elake of fire is referred to as the wrath of god!.

there are a handful of verses that speaks of Gods genral wrath against sinners.
then there is the wrath described as being the time of the tribulation (7 years, 70th week of daniel.)

Here are a few mentions;

Zeph. 1:15, RE. 15:1,7 14:10,19 rev. 16:1 1 thess. 1:10, 1 thess. 5:9, Rev. 11:18, Rev. 6:16-17

Hope this helps

 

[Bruce Atkinson]

I believe you are the one who is confused. If we cannot get any doctrine from the Gospels then it is a sad state of affairs for people who hold to such a nonsensical view. If the words and teachings of Christ are not the foundation of the rest of the NT, then you are seriously in error. If John chapter 3 is not the basis for the Gospel and Christian truth, then obviously you need to have someone sit down with you and lead you to the truth. Paul simply builds on Christ, and calls His the true Foundation.

Apparently my comment about not getting doctrine from the Gospels was misunderstood. To be clear, we can LEARN from the Gospels, but we aren’t COMMANDED to do what’s presented. Our faith is 100% based upon what Jesus did for us at Calvary. We are led by the Holy Spirit to do as He directs us. Remember that the Holy Spirit did not fill believers until Pentecost (the exception being Stephen). Therefore, Jesus commanded them vs our being led by the Holy Spirit.

Consider the Great Commission – Jesus was telling his disciples (all Jews) in Matthew 28:19-20

Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

He is telling them to tell the world that He is the promised Messiah. Period. Matthew 16:15-17 shows it clearly:

Mat 16:15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
Mat 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

Nowhere did Peter or Jesus state: ‘that died for our sins, was buried, and rose again the 3rd day according to scripture’. It was Paul that gave US the Gospel in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, not Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. The great commission was for them to go to Jews only and show them that Jesus IS the risen Messiah, just like Stephen elaborated on in Acts 7.

Fact of the matter is that the disciples went ONLY to Jews, and only after many years did some of them venture beyond Jerusalem. They certainly recalled Jesus’ commanding them in Matthew 10:5:

Mat_10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: (KJV)

Even after the stoning of Stephen, Christ believing Jews immediately scattered to avoid being jailed and killed by the likes of Saul…except the apostles as shown in Acts 8:1

Act 8:1 And Saul was consenting unto his death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles. (KJV)

Paul clarified things at the Jerusalem Conference in Galatians 2:9 -
Gal 2:9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen (gentiles), and they unto the circumcision. (Jews) (KJV) Parenthesized fields are my addtions.

Does that mean that we, the church (to clarify…’the church’ is all born again believers), should NOT be evangelizing the lost? Absolutely not true! Should we NOT sow Gods’ Word abundantly, regardless of what type of ground the seeds fall on? Absolutely not true! Those that are gifted by the Holy Spirit to preach and/or teach will do so. But we are not commanded by Jesus to do so. If we're not gifted for doing some things, that does not mean we should not do it. We each possess multiple spiritual gifts in varying degrees. We're to use those gifts for Gods' purpose in each of us according to His plan.

We’re not called to all be evangelists or street preachers as clearly indicated in 1 Corinthians 12:7-14 and 1 Corinthians 12:27-31

1Co 12:7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
1Co 12:8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
1Co 12:9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
1Co 12:10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
1Co 12:11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.
1Co 12:12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
1Co 12:14 For the body is not one member, but many.
1Co 12:27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.
1Co 12:28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
1Co 12:29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
1Co 12:30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
1Co 12:31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way. (KJV)

Paul summarized it in Ephesians 4:11-12

Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:(KJV)

Did Jesus tell His disciples and followers to do the things that Paul listed? If He did, I have yet to find it in the Gospels.

Paul writes in 1 Corinthians 11:1
1Co 11:1 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ. (KJV)

He's telling us to worship, honor, devote our lives to Christ with unwavering faith and commitment, as he did. No, he isn't telling us to go join a monastery. We are to be beacons of light to the world, as Jesus spoke of in Matthew, Mark, and Luke:

Luke11:33 No man, when he hath lighted a candle, putteth it in a secret place, neither under a bushel, but on a candlestick, that they which come in may see the light. (KJV)

Stated differently in Matthew 5:16

Mat 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven. (KJV)

Neither of the above verses is doctrinal. They happen automatically by the Holy Spirit that dwells in us.

 

[Truth7t7]

Have written to you all the biblical verses showing there is a literal earthly kingdom and that REv. 20 shows it lasts a literal 1,000 years.

If you didn't bother to read them the first time, why should I dfo all the work to post them a second time?

Now prove that 2 Peter 3:8 is not a metaphor but was a statement to be issud as literal doctrine for counting every time 1,000 years appears in SCripture. It is constructeds as making a comparison. Just because you reject keeping this statement in the context it was being written in, does not make it Gods doctrine. It may make it yours, but deinitely not Gods.

It's your opinion that you have provided verses showing a 1,000 year Kingdomon this earth

A Millennial Kingdom on this earth is found no place in scripture, I have shown that all your claims made are false

Example : You claimed Isaiah 11 & 65 represented a Millennial Kingdom, you were shown it represents the New Heaven And Earth

Isaiah Chapters 11 & 65 Is The Very Same Place, The Eternal Kingdom, In The New Heaven And Earth, Don't Be Deceived By Claims This Represents A Millennial Kingdom On This Earth

Same Wolf & Lamb Together, And Lion Eating Straw Like The Bullock/Ox, In The Eternal Kingdom, In The New Heaven And Earth

(For, Behold, I Create New Heavens And A New Earth)

Isaiah 65:17-18 & 25KJV
17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
18 But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.

25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the Lord.

Isaiah 11:6-7KJV
6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.
7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.