The Only Problem With The Trinity

[Cooper]

"But I am the LORD thy God, that divided the sea, whose waves roared: The LORD of hosts is his name.

And I have put my words in thy mouth, and I have covered thee in the shadow of mine hand, that I may plant the heavens, and lay the foundations of the earth, and say unto Zion, Thou art my people." Isaiah 51:15-16

"Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away" Matt 24:35

And I have put my words in thy mouth, and I have covered thee in the shadow of mine hand, that I may plant the heavens, and lay the foundations of the earth, and say unto Zion, Thou art my people." Isaiah 51:15-16

"Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away" Matt 24:35

How can people not see it?
.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Consider these:

“The eyes of the LORD are in every place, beholding the evil and the good.” Prov 15:3

“Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?

If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.

If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea;

Even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy right hand shall hold me.” Psalm 139:7-10

“Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith the LORD. Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the LORD.” Jerem 23:24

Jesus himself gave God a location...a dwelling place. “Our Father who art in heaven”
God’s Omniscience allows him to be all knowing, which is not the same as being present everywhere at once. He sees all and knows all but that does not mean he has to be in all places at the same time.
1 Kings 8:30...
“And listen to your servant’s request for favor and to the request by your people Israel that they pray toward this place, and may you hear from your dwelling place in the heavens; yes, may you hear and forgive.”
2 Chronicles 16:9...
“For the eyes of Jehovah are roving about through all the earth to show his strength* in behalf of those whose heart is complete toward him.”

If God’s dwelling place is in heaven, then to allow scripture to explain scripture, we have to take middle ground here....is all seeing and all knowing really what we see stated in these scriptures?

 

[amadeus]

Jesus himself gave God a location...a dwelling place. “Our Father who art in heaven”
God’s Omniscience allows him to be all knowing, which is not the same as being present everywhere at once. He sees all and knows all but that does not mean he has to be in all places at the same time.
1 Kings 8:30...
“And listen to your servant’s request for favor and to the request by your people Israel that they pray toward this place, and may you hear from your dwelling place in the heavens; yes, may you hear and forgive.”
2 Chronicles 16:9...
“For the eyes of Jehovah are roving about through all the earth to show his strength* in behalf of those whose heart is complete toward him.”

If God’s dwelling place is in heaven, then to allow scripture to explain scripture, we have to take middle ground here....is all seeing and all knowing really what we see stated in these scriptures?

I won't argue with what you see. I do not have your eyes.
Where is heaven or the heavens? What was Jesus saying here?

"And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven." John 3:13

 

[Aunty Jane]

I won't argue with what you see. I do not have your eyes.
Where is heaven or the heavens? What was Jesus saying here?

"And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven." John 3:13

To my knowledge, heaven is a spiritual realm where material beings cannot exist. As a spirit being, Jesus occupied this location in his role as the “Logos” (God’s spokesman) as soon as other spirit beings were created. (Colossians 1:15-17)

Heaven is not clearly defined in the Bible because it is a very foreign place to us earthlings. Some of God’s prophets were privileged to see visions of heaven (Ezekiel and John for example) and found it difficult to describe in human terms, but it sounds like an amazing place with amazing creatures. It is my belief that as a glorious spirit creature, Jesus was his Father’s most trusted “servant”. (Acts 4:27) He was sent by his Father to redeem mankind and to teach us who the Father is, as his representative. He mirrored his Father’s personality perfectly. But he is a created being who has been “with” his God from “the beginning”. (Revelation 3:14; John 1:1)
Since God is eternal, and therefore had no beginning, this can only mean the beginning of creation. The Bible indicates that the spirit “sons of God” existed well before the creation of the material Universe. So God already had a vast spiritual family in heaven before he decided to create material things....and to give life to an earthly family.

In the Bible there are several “heavens” described.....there is the spiritual realm where God and his angels reside.....there is the universal heavens where there are stars planets and galaxies....and then there is the heavens where birds fly and clouds form and the rains come down. Learning about “words” used in the Bible and their varied meanings is quite enlightening. It shows us how often the English language is quite stunted when it comes to interpretation. The scope of words is lost and misinterpretation results. This is what leads to confusion IMO.

 

[amadeus]

To my knowledge, heaven is a spiritual realm where material beings cannot exist. As a spirit being, Jesus occupied this location in his role as the “Logos” (God’s spokesman) as soon as other spirit beings were created. (Colossians 1:15-17)

Heaven is not clearly defined in the Bible because it is a very foreign place to us earthlings. Some of God’s prophets were privileged to see visions of heaven (Ezekiel and John for example) and found it difficult to describe in human terms, but it sounds like an amazing place with amazing creatures. It is my belief that as a glorious spirit creature, Jesus was his Father’s most trusted “servant”. (Acts 4:27) He was sent by his Father to redeem mankind and to teach us who the Father is, as his representative. He mirrored his Father’s personality perfectly. But he is a created being who has been “with” his God from “the beginning”. (Revelation 3:14; John 1:1)
Since God is eternal, and therefore had no beginning, this can only mean the beginning of creation. The Bible indicates that the spirit “sons of God” existed well before the creation of the material Universe. So God already had a vast spiritual family in heaven before he decided to create material things....and to give life to an earthly family.

In the Bible there are several “heavens” described.....there is the spiritual realm where God and his angels reside.....there is the universal heavens where there are stars planets and galaxies....and then there is the heavens where birds fly and clouds form and the rains come down. Learning about “words” used in the Bible and their varied meanings is quite enlightening. It shows us how often the English language is quite stunted when it comes to interpretation. The scope of words is lost and misinterpretation results. This is what leads to confusion IMO.

You have seen some things I have not. I am not saying you are wrong. I believe that God shows us what we need to see if we are sincerely seeking what He has told us to seek. Simply in this verse:

"But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you." Matt 6:33

What has God added to us? What is our function? What is our need? How far along the highway of holiness have we traveled?

I have my own ideas from scripture about the heaven, but I am unable to fill in all of the apparent gaps to satisfy every reader. I have gotten into this subject before. If interested look here:

Where is hell? Where is heaven?

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

The only problem with the Trinity is that people who are carnal can not understand it. for you need the Holy Spirit to understand such.
The 3 are in one the same identity.
But the 3 are separate identity's themselves.
The Father The Son and the Holy Spirit are all one. One well spring !
The 3 do not separate for they are the same well spring.
They are all one in the same.
Now without the Holy sprit one can not fathom the other two and that means such a one does not fathom the 3 in one.
Now the Son proceeds from the Father, I am sure everyone knows that fact.
But the Son came for us as a Man but he is the Holy Spirit also.
Now the Holy Spirit came when Jesus went back to Heaven.
So did Christ Jesus ever leave us, No ! and he said so.
Who is the comforter ? you all.

 

[theefaith]

The only problem with the Trinity is that people who are carnal can not understand it. for you need the Holy Spirit to understand such.
The 3 are in one the same identity.
But the 3 are separate identity's themselves.
The Father The Son and the Holy Spirit are all one. One well spring !
The 3 do not separate for they are the same well spring.
They are all one in the same.
Now without the Holy sprit one can not fathom the other two and that means such a one does not fathom the 3 in one.
Now the Son proceeds from the Father, I am sure everyone knows that fact.
But the Son came for us as a Man but he is the Holy Spirit also.
Now the Holy Spirit came when Jesus went back to Heaven.
So did Christ Jesus ever leave us, No ! and he said so.
Who is the comforter ? you all.

even with the HS there are Christian mysteries

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Athanasius Creed!
(From the early church)
Whoever desires to be saved must above all hold to the catholic faith.

Anyone who does not keep it whole and entire will doubtless perish eternally.

Now this is the catholic faith:

That we worship one God in trinity and the trinity in unity, neither blending their persons nor dividing their essence. For the person of the Father is a distinct person, the person of the Son is another,
and that of the Holy Spirit still another.
But the divinity of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is one, their glory equal, their majesty coeternal.

What quality the Father has, the Son has, and the Holy Spirit has. The Father is uncreated, the Son is uncreated, the Holy Spirit is uncreated.

The Father is immeasurable, the Son is immeasurable, the Holy Spirit is immeasurable.

The Father is eternal, the Son is eternal,
the Holy Spirit is eternal.

And yet there are not three eternal beings; there is but one eternal being.
So too there are not three uncreated or immeasurable beings, there is but one uncreated and immeasurable being.

Similarly, the Father is almighty, the Son is almighty, the Holy Spirit is almighty. Yet there are not three almighty beings;
there is but one almighty being.

Thus the Father is God,
the Son is God,
the Holy Spirit is God.
Yet there are not three gods;
there is but one God.

Thus the Father is Lord,
the Son is Lord,
the Holy Spirit is Lord.
Yet there are not three lords;
there is but one Lord.

Just as Christian truth compels us
to confess each person individually
as both God and Lord, so catholic religion forbids us to say that there are three gods or lords.

The Father was neither made nor created nor begotten from anyone. The Son was neither made nor created; he was begotten from the Father alone. The Holy Spirit was neither made nor created nor begotten; he proceeds from the Father and the Son.

Accordingly there is one Father, not three fathers; there is one Son, not three sons;
there is one Holy Spirit, not three holy spirits.

Nothing in this trinity is before or after,
nothing is greater or smaller; in their entirety the three persons are coeternal and coequal with each other.

So in everything, as was said earlier,
we must worship their trinity in their unity and their unity in their trinity.

Anyone then who desires to be saved
should think thus about the trinity.

But it is necessary for eternal salvation
that one also believe in the incarnation
of our Lord Jesus Christ faithfully.

Now this is the true faith:

That we believe and confess
that our Lord Jesus Christ, God's Son,
is both God and human, equally.

He is God from the essence of the Father,
begotten before time; and he is human from the essence of his mother, born in time; completely God, completely human, with a rational soul and human flesh; equal to the Father as regards divinity, less than the Father as regards humanity.

Although he is God and human,
yet Christ is not two, but one.
He is one, however, not by his divinity being turned into flesh, but by God's taking humanity to himself.He is one,
certainly not by the blending of his essence, but by the unity of his person.
For just as one human is both rational soul and flesh, so too the one Christ is both God and human.

He suffered for our salvation; he descended to hell; he arose from the dead; he ascended to heaven; he is seated at the Father's right hand; from there he will come to judge the living and the dead. At his coming all people will arise bodily and give an accounting of their own deeds. Those who have done good will enter eternal life, and those who have done evil will enter eternal fire.

This is the catholic faith:
one cannot be saved without believing it firmly and faithfully.

Holy, Holy, Holy is the Lord God of hosts!

I've found nothing where God inspired men to write down in his holy book, the Bible, that you must believe Jesus is both God and human to be saved.
I've found nowhere that God inspired to write down in this Holy book the Bible where we must believe that God is three persons in a Godhead to be saved.

What I have found in scripture is that God inspired men to write down what Jesus said at John 17:3, that we must know two persons to get eternal life.
I know we must exercise faith in what God inspired men to write down at John 3:16

 

[theefaith]

I've found nothing where God inspired men to write down in his holy book, the Bible, that you must believe Jesus is both God and human to be saved.
I've found nowhere that God inspired to write down in this Holy book the Bible where we must believe that God is three persons in a Godhead to be saved.

What I have found in scripture is that God inspired men to write down what Jesus said at John 17:3, that we must know two persons to get eternal life.
I know we must exercise faith in what God inspired men to write down at John 3:16

why does it need be in scripture
Acts 2:42 doctrine of the apostles not the Bible alone


Christ is the rule of faith or source of truth for Christians!
Jn 14:6 Jesus Christ is the way the truth and the life! The church is an extension of Christ 1 Tim 3:15 the church is the pillar and ground of truth!

Must be taught by Christ! Gal 1:2

What God has revealed by scripture and the church, the teaching authority of the apostles has proposed for our belief!

Christians must be instructed or taught!

A Christian must have humility and obedience of faith to be taught by Christ who is the way, the truth, and the life!
Jn 14:6

Verses of scripture signifying that we must be taught.

Lk 1:4
Matt 18:17
Matt 28:19

Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4
The church is an exodus christ by which Christ perpetuates his mission, ministry, and teaching with His power and authority through all the world and all ages!

The private interpretation of the “Bible alone” does not and cannot and will not lead to a unity of faith! 2 Pet 1:20
eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: Jn 1:16-17 fullness of Christ!


The Bible does not say all truths revealed by God are found in the “Bible alone”! Or that the word of God is limited to the “Bible alone”!

Not the “Bible alone” acts 2:42
Not personal interpretation or experiences. 2 Pet 1:20

The authority of the apostles is required to know what is the scriptures and what is not, the church having wrote the New Testament by the authority of Christ the apostles determined what is scripture and the authentic interpretation there of!

Saint Jerome’s work of collecting the Bible and getting it approved did not happen until in 381 it was approved by the Pope, the valid successor of Peter having jurisdiction authority of the keys of the kingdom of heaven!

How did the church for almost four centuries live without the “Bible alone”?
The teaching authority of the apostles that’s how! The Bible’s is the Bible by the authority of the church, Christ’s authority given to His apostles!

Christ founded the church on Peter and the apostles to defend, to protect, and to teach “thee faith”

A fundamentalist is ruled by spiritual pride, self-righteous private judgement from scripture, or the humility to hear the teaching of Christ through the church of His apostles?
Obedience of faith: rom 16:26
We must be taught by Christ who is the way, the truth, and the life. Jn 14:6
Instructed: Lk 1:4 acts 8:31
Teach all nations: Matt 28:19
He who hears you (the apostles) hears me: lk 10:16
Hear the church: Matt 18:17
Church is the pillar and ground of truth: 1 Tim 3:14
Christ and his church are one, the church is an extension of Christ through the whole world and all time: acts 9:4

Not scripture plus private judgement

But guided by the teaching office of Christ and his church!

Without the teaching authority of the apostles you cannot know what is and what is not scripture!

Please explain how the church of Jesus Christ existed before the New Testament, the church taught and believed before the New Testament with the same authority of Christ!

Church of the apostles has the same mission, ministry, power, and authority as Christ! Jn 20:21-23

The church wrote the New Testament, the church gathered the cannon of scripture, the church alone has authority to say what is, and what is not scripture and to give the authoritative interpretation or meaning of scripture!

Not spiritual pride & self-righteous private judgement!

Athanasius Creed!
(From the early church)

Whoever desires to be saved must above all hold to the catholic faith.

Anyone who does not keep it whole and entire will doubtless perish eternally.

What did Christ teach the apostles in the 40 days from His resurrection to His ascension?
What did he teach the two disciples on the road to Emmaus?
What was revealed to John the Baptist in Lk 3:2 the word of God came unto John, and did it come by the Bible alone?
Where does Christ command the New Testament to be written? The apostles having the authority of Christ chose to write scripture! Other apostles wrote nothing at all!
How does the eunuch know about baptism? Acts 8

Rule of faith cannot be the “Bible Alone” because we did not have a bible until 381 when the church of the apostles by the authority of Christ determined what was and what was not scripture! You only have a bible cos the church wrote one and cannonized it by the authority of Christ thru his apostles!

Could not read
The Bible itself points to authority granted by Christ
The Bible condemns person interpretation of scripture as opposed to the church of the apostles having the authority of Christ to interpret scripture

so how can the rule of faith be the “Bible alone” when it did not even exist until the church approved it in 381 by the authority of Christ in His apostles, what about the millions who could not read most could not read until the 20th century, and books including Bible were rare and very expensive all written by hand (mostly by monks who sacrificed their whole life to copy a bible) until the printing press, even then they were still expensive
What does a blind person do?

the Holy Spirit is guaranteed to the apostles Jn 16:13 they are to teach the nations Matt 28:19 Lk 1:4 acts 8

in acts 8 did the eunuch know about Christ and baptism from the scripture and the Holy Spirit? No God sent him and apostle


Acts 2:42 the held the doctrine of the apostles
Not the doctrine of the “Bible alone”!

if you believe the doctrine of the “Bible alone”, then there can be no other authority so scratch that verse out of your Bible! And many others that refer to the authority of the apostles!
Btw it’s only by the authority of the apostles that know what is and what is not scripture

Cannot summit to or obey any other authority accept the Bible alone
Even God, or Christ, or His church, or His apostles, or those who He sent and commanded to care for you’re soul!
The Bible is the only authority for a Protestant!

Where does the Bible say the rule of faith is the Bible alone?

the Bible was not assembled and approved until 381 by the apostles btw
Only the apostles said what is and what is not scripture.

What did Christians do in all those years without the “Bible alone”
until the advent of printing bibles were copied by hand and very rare and extremely expensive what did Christians do in those days
Most people were illiterate until the 20th century what did they do?
So you see the “Bible Alone” cannot be the rule of faith for Christians!
Instead we actually believe scripture and submit to and obey the apostles acts 2:42


Must be taught! Must be instructed by Christ!

Bible does not say to read and decide doctrine for you’re self!

Lk 1:1-4
1 Forasmuch as many have taken in hand to set forth in order a declaration of those things which are most surely believed among us,

2 Even as they delivered them unto us, which from the beginning were eyewitnesses, and ministers of the word;

3 It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus,

4 That thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed.

Acts 8 the eunuch had scripture but needed to be instructed by an apostle.

Acts 8:26 And the angel of the Lord spake unto Philip, saying, Arise, and go toward the south unto the way that goeth down from Jerusalem unto Gaza, which is desert.

27 And he arose and went: and, behold, a man of Ethiopia, an eunuch of great authority under Candace queen of the Ethiopians, who had the charge of all her treasure, and had come to Jerusalem for to worship,

28 Was returning, and sitting in his chariot read Esaias the prophet.

29 Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot.

30 And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?

31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.

32 The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth:

33 In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth.

34 And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man?

35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.

Taught by Christ thru His apostles!

Eph 4:20 But ye have not so learned Christ;

21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:

Christ taught them and us thru the apostles.

Lk 24:25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:

27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

 

[theefaith]

True Christians cannot listen to the errors of excommunicated heretics, but we listen faithfully to Christ, in the bosom of holy mother church, the only ark of salvation!
1 pet 3:20-21 matt 18:17 matt 16:18-19 matt 28:19-20 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-23


Truth must be revealed by God thru Christ to His church (the apostles Jude 1:3) then must be proposed by the church, (Matt 28:19 gal 3:23) without error by the Holy Spirit! (Jn 16:13)

Christ and His church are one! (Acts 9:4 eph 5:31 Jn 15:1-5)

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Theefaith said:
why does it need be in scripture
Acts 2:42 doctrine of the apostles not the Bible alone[/QUOTE\]

Jesus repeatedly used only the Scriptures as authoritative, often saying: “It is written.” (Matthew 4:4, 7, 10; Luke 19:46) When Jesus spoke about the marital situation, he didn't cite some greek philosophical conjecture, but upon the Genesis account of creation. (Genesis 1:27; 2:24; Matthew 19:3-9) So Jesus considered the Scriptures to be inspired by God and factual. In prayer to God, he said: “Your word is truth.” John 17:17. The word that God inspired men to write down is what I believe the truth is, when Jesus said, your word is truth. You can speak of this Apostles doctrine as though it's equal to the inspired word that God inspired men to write down, but I keep asking myself why isn't it in the biblical Canon. Most likely because the majority of the religious scholars and religious leaders won't agree it belongs in the biblical Canon, therefore it's not equal to the word God inspired men to write down.

 

[theefaith]

Theefaith said:
why does it need be in scripture
Acts 2:42 doctrine of the apostles not the Bible alone[/QUOTE\]

Jesus repeatedly used only the Scriptures as authoritative, often saying: “It is written.” (Matthew 4:4, 7, 10; Luke 19:46) When Jesus spoke about the marital situation, he didn't cite some greek philosophical conjecture, but upon the Genesis account of creation. (Genesis 1:27; 2:24; Matthew 19:3-9) So Jesus considered the Scriptures to be inspired by God and factual. In prayer to God, he said: “Your word is truth.” John 17:17. The word that God inspired men to write down is what I believe the truth is, when Jesus said, your word is truth. You can speak of this Apostles doctrine as though it's equal to the inspired word that God inspired men to write down, but I keep asking myself why isn't it in the biblical Canon. Most likely because the majority of the religious scholars and religious leaders won't agree it belongs in the biblical Canon, therefore it's not equal to the word God inspired men to write down.

scripture yes but not scripture alone

Christ is the rule of faith the source of truth and that must extend to his holy church that teaches his truth!


The rule of faith for Christians is Jesus Christ Jn 14:6 and His church! Matt 18:17 acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15

Truth must be revealed by God thru Christ to His church (the apostles Jude 1:3) then must be proposed by the church, (Matt 28:19 gal 3:23) without error by the Holy Spirit! (Jn 16:13)

Christ and His church are one! (Acts 9:4 eph 5:31 Jn 15:1-5)

Rejection of the one true church or its teaching is rejection of Christ and God!

Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4 eph 5:32 Jn 8:12 & Matt 5:14

Dan 2:44 Isa 2:2 Micah 4:1 fulfilled in matt 5:14

matt 16:18-19 shall not prevail
Matt 18:17 hear the truth from the church
1 Tim 3:15 the church is the pillar and ground of truth.

 

[Wrangler]

The only problem with the Trinity is that people who are carnal can not understand it

That's not the only problem with the trinity! The trinity is not in the Bible - not the word and not the doctrine. It is inherently self-contradictory and goes against explicit Scripture. For us, there is one God, the Father. Hard to construct stronger anti-trinitarian language than that.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

scripture yes but not scripture alone

Christ is the rule of faith the source of truth and that must extend to his holy church that teaches his truth!


The rule of faith for Christians is Jesus Christ Jn 14:6 and His church! Matt 18:17 acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15

Truth must be revealed by God thru Christ to His church (the apostles Jude 1:3) then must be proposed by the church, (Matt 28:19 gal 3:23) without error by the Holy Spirit! (Jn 16:13)

Christ and His church are one! (Acts 9:4 eph 5:31 Jn 15:1-5)

Rejection of the one true church or its teaching is rejection of Christ and God!

Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4 eph 5:32 Jn 8:12 & Matt 5:14

Dan 2:44 Isa 2:2 Micah 4:1 fulfilled in matt 5:14

matt 16:18-19 shall not prevail
Matt 18:17 hear the truth from the church
1 Tim 3:15 the church is the pillar and ground of truth.

I agree that Jehovah God is working through his Only Begotten Son Jesus Christ and he has made his Only Begotten Son head of the True Church and this True Church is the Only Church that has God's Holy Spirit and this True Church is how God through his Only Begotten Son dispenses true spiritual food. So yes I agree that the True Church and Jesus Christ are United as one. So whoever rejects the True Church are rejecting Jesus Christ and his Father and God.
However I don't believe the Catholic and Protestant Churches to be the True Church. Catholic and Protestants have always killed one another in wars, so how have they beat their swords into plow shares, (Isaiah 2:2)how has nation that say they're christians nations not lifted up swords against each other when so called Christians nations saying they are Christians nations anyway have had two major World Wars. Jesus said that his true disciples would be outstandingly identified by their love for one another, for fellow believers. (John 13:35) The importance of that is emphasized repeatedly in the Bible. (Gal. 6:10; 1 Pet. 4:8; 1 John 3:14, 16, 17) Catholics and Protestants have never had that kind of love for one another. However, Jesus showed that even more important is their love for God himself, which is shown by their obedience to his commandments. (Matt. 22:35-38; 1 John 5:3)
I believe these church organizations, the Catholic Churches and Protestant Churches, to be the weeds, the immitation Christians, that Jesus spoke of.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

theefaith said:
The private interpretation of the “Bible alone” does not and cannot and will not lead to a unity of faith! 2 Pet 1:20 [/QUOTE\]

First of all, the Bible interpreting itself, isn't a private interpretation. Second if you knew anything about Jehovah's Witnesses you would know that globally they are all united in the same faith, and we base all our beliefs on the Bible. We don't have denominations in our global religious organization.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

That's not the only problem with the trinity! The trinity is not in the Bible - not the word and not the doctrine. It is inherently self-contradictory and goes against explicit Scripture. For us, there is one God, the Father. Hard to construct stronger anti-trinitarian language than that.

Only non Born again people make claims like that, not to mention go talk to any atheist, and they will come up with the same trash as you just did in fact.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Only non Born again people make claims like that, not to mention go talk to any atheist, and they will come up with the same trash as you just did in fact.

It has nothing to do with whether a person is born again or not, it has to do with the inspired word of God. Trinitarians are just like the pharisees who cared more about doctrines of men than they did the inspired word of God. Just as wrangler said the Trinity Doctrine isn't in the inspired word of God. It comes from counsels of men, not the inspired word of God. Even the Theologians admit that there is no explicit doctrine of the Trinity in the scriptures.

 

[theefaith]

I agree that Jehovah God is working through his Only Begotten Son Jesus Christ and he has made his Only Begotten Son head of the True Church and this True Church is the Only Church that has God's Holy Spirit and this True Church is how God through his Only Begotten Son dispenses true spiritual food. So yes I agree that the True Church and Jesus Christ are United as one. So whoever rejects the True Church are rejecting Jesus Christ and his Father and God.
However I don't believe the Catholic and Protestant Churches to be the True Church. Catholic and Protestants have always killed one another in wars, so how have they beat their swords into plow shares, (Isaiah 2:2)how has nation that say they're christians nations not lifted up swords against each other when so called Christians nations saying they are Christians nations anyway have had two major World Wars. Jesus said that his true disciples would be outstandingly identified by their love for one another, for fellow believers. (John 13:35) The importance of that is emphasized repeatedly in the Bible. (Gal. 6:10; 1 Pet. 4:8; 1 John 3:14, 16, 17) Catholics and Protestants have never had that kind of love for one another. However, Jesus showed that even more important is their love for God himself, which is shown by their obedience to his commandments. (Matt. 22:35-38; 1 John 5:3)
I believe these church organizations, the Catholic Churches and Protestant Churches, to be the weeds, the immitation Christians, that Jesus spoke of.

the one true church!

Christ is King of Glory!

Dan 2: 44 And in the days of these kings (Roman Caesars) shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

Isaiah 2:2
And it shall come to pass in the last days, (acts 2:17 last days began at Pentecost) that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.

Micah 4:1
But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the Lord shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.

Lk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

Matthew 5:14
Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

Matthew 6:33
But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

Matt 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Matt 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, (Israel) and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. (The new covenant church) Jn 15:1-5

Matthew 5:14
Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

Lk 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: (plural Peter and his successors)
32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

Jesus Christ is king!

We must submit and obey the king of kings!

James 4:7
Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

And In the absence of the king we must submit and obey the kings ministers!

Isa 22:21-22
Matt 16:18
Matt 18:18
Matt 28:18
Lk 10:16
Jn 13:20
Jn 20:21-23

Example of Joseph under pharaoh administers the kingdom and his brothers obeyed and submitted to him. Gen 37

Gen 37:7 For, behold, we were binding sheaves in the field, and, lo, my sheaf arose, and also stood upright; and, behold, your sheaves stood round about, and made obeisance to my sheaf.

8 And his brethren said to him, Shalt thou indeed reign over us? or shalt thou indeed have dominion over us? And they hated him yet the more for his dreams, and for his words.

9 And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me.

Obedience to Joseph is obedience to pharaoh!

Obedience to Peter and the Apostles is obedience to Christ!

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

It has nothing to do with whether a person is born again or not, it has to do with the inspired word of God. Trinitarians are just like the pharisees who cared more about doctrines of men than they did the inspired word of God. Just as wrangler said the Trinity Doctrine isn't in the inspired word of God. It comes from counsels of men, not the inspired word of God. Even the Theologians admit that there is no explicit doctrine of the Trinity in the scriptures.

If you can not truly perceive the Trinity you are not truly saved in fact. because the Holy spirit you do not posses in fact, because one is carnal.
The word ? inspired ? well one may claim such the working of God, but it may not be truly because one has not a handle on such from the Holy Spirit to truly understand what such is truly all about.

Now one may have a bit of a handle on a subject word in the Bible but so does the Devil in fact.

Now any idiot can say, I don't understand the Trinity ? I did not understand it once.

I know a lot of Religious people who waffle on about the word ? but boy are they off with the pixies at times, some of what they may claim maybe right and some times, I have even thought that they knew the subject but then I found out that they do not know the subject much truly at all, because the main problem with their thought on a subject is that they have only been taught that line ? and not educated one such but only indoctrinated on the subject. not to mention such is coming totally truly from a worldly works point of view in reality.

Did I come to understand the Trinity by myself, No ! God inspired me on the subject in fact, it was not of my workings. as it's does not come from a worldly position. The whole thing is spiritual. and not to mention a true Christian does not take his Q from man, but God through Christ Jesus truly only as he give Light.
The whole religious thing just has ones wheels spinning and that's why the Jews needed a Lord and Saviour. not to mention the only Jews who passed over were loyal to Moses and worthy of Israel, the rest were deceived by Men who knew the words but knew not God nor were they worthy of God, in fact they were murders from the beginning who were like them, that's the god and gods that they were following, Jesus pointed such out. Nathaniel was not of them, Stephen called them out on such and full on exposed the degenerate fools.

Remember Paul he knew all the words ? but to no avail. until what ? Then it all came together. he was killing the wrong people ! he was lead astray, he had the words ? but he needed just one thing God !
Man can not read the Bible without the Holy Spirit to guide one at all, because one will not pick up what is essential. now the one who only has the words of the Bible is somewhat lost and becomes religious, but can know some truth's but they do not know the whole truth. because they are lacking in the Holy Spirit, may think or claim that they are born again, but they truly are lacking in the gift of the Holy spirit.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

If you can not truly perceive the Trinity you are not truly saved in fact. because the Holy spirit you do not posses in fact, because one is carnal.
The word ? inspired ? well one may claim such the working of God, but it may not be truly because one has not a handle on such from the Holy Spirit to truly understand what such is truly all about.

Now one may have a bit of a handle on a subject word in the Bible but so does the Devil in fact.

Now any idiot can say, I don't understand the Trinity ? I did not understand it once.

I know a lot of Religious people who waffle on about the word ? but boy are they off with the pixies at times, some of what they may claim maybe right and some times, I have even thought that they knew the subject but then I found out that they do not know the subject much truly at all, because the main problem with their thought on a subject is that they have only been taught that line ? and not educated one such but only indoctrinated on the subject. not to mention such is coming totally truly from a worldly works point of view in reality.

Did I come to understand the Trinity by myself, No ! God inspired me on the subject in fact, it was not of my workings. as it's does not come from a worldly position. The whole thing is spiritual. and not to mention a true Christian does not take his Q from man, but God through Christ Jesus truly only as he give Light.
The whole religious thing just has ones wheels spinning and that's why the Jews needed a Lord and Saviour. not to mention the only Jews who passed over were loyal to Moses and worthy of Israel, the rest were deceived by Men who knew the words but knew not God nor were they worthy of God, in fact they were murders from the beginning who were like them, that's the god and gods that they were following, Jesus pointed such out. Nathaniel was not of them, Stephen called them out on such and full on exposed the degenerate fools.

Remember Paul he knew all the words ? but to no avail. until what ? Then it all came together. he was killing the wrong people ! he was lead astray, he had the words ? but he needed just one thing God !
Man can not read the Bible without the Holy Spirit to guide one at all, because one will not pick up what is essential. now the one who only has the words of the Bible is somewhat lost and becomes religious, but can know some truth's but they do not know the whole truth. because they are lacking in the Holy Spirit, may think or claim that they are born again, but they truly are lacking in the gift of the Holy spirit.

All this that you said above is just you talking about how councils of men and what they say is more important to you than the Word of God that God inspired men to write down.
Someone who doesn't have God's Holy Spirit would be someone who doesn't go by Gods Word but instead would say something that God didn't say. Like when the serpent said to Eve she wouldn't die if she ate the forbidden fruit. I can see that the serpent convinced Eve to listen to him rather than to listen to what God said. Because she didn't listen to what God said she lost her life.
Today everything that we need to know about the True God and how to be the person who loves God first and then his fellow man, and how to get eternal life has been written in a book, called the Bible. We don't need to look anywhere else. The Trinity Doctrine isn't in the scriptures. There's nothing in the scriptures that says that God is three person's in a godhead. There's nothing in the scriptures that show or teach that Jesus is God or that he's equal to God. In fact the scriptures show the Only Begotten Son of God to be a part of creation. The fact he's called, "the firstborn of creation" (Colossians 1:15) and, "the beginning of creation" (Revelation 3:14) is proof of that. Why would God inspire someone to write down that his Only Begotten Son is the firstborn of creation. The scriptures themselves show consistently when talking of living creatures, whether they're animals or human, what is said to be "firstborn of" is part of that group which is firstborn.