The Only Problem With The Trinity

[Wrangler]

Obviously, His Father.

Otherwise, "this is my son," would be a lie.

LOL. Jesus is not called the Son of the Father. There is only one whose voice that could be and that is God, in his whole, unitarian, singular nature.

 

[Happy Trails]

LOL. Jesus is not called the Son of the Father. There is only one whose voice that could be and that is God, in his whole, unitarian, singular nature.

I thought God WAS the Father....

 

[face2face]

The same with the impossibility of sitting at your own right hand.

True...I'm glad you could perceive the strength of that point( hoping others)...see the trinity is totally illogical.

 

[Wrangler]

True...I'm glad you could perceive the strength of that point( hoping others)...see the trinity is totally illogical.

The concept of the trinity is inherently self-contradictory and violates 3 pillars at every turn that stand in its way:

1. Definition
2. Language usage
3. Logic

There are verses that say Jesus is the servant of God and was chosen by God and was raised from the dead by God. In these verses, 'God,' in his whole, unitatian, singular nature is the subject of the sentence. In these verses, 'Jesus' (or 'the son') is the object of the sentence. This is direct proof they are not the same being.

Trinitarians have to parse synonyms to make sense of their doctrine. "Being" with person and 'begotten' with made. To be begotten is to be (pro)created, which is made. And no son is fully contemporaneous with his own father, i.e., father's exist first in every instance.

To escape the confines of logic, they invoke dualism and artiifical synthesis. There are verses that explictly say Jesus is a man. Every Epistle's prologue states 'God the Father.' See below. Dualism says that just because God is the Father does not mean God is not also X & Y. Trouble is, Scripture only states God the Father. That Scripture only states alone 'God the Father' should be sufficient in recognizing who Jesus is (not God) IF one let's Scritprure stand on its own without attemptting to force a theological agenda onto it.

So, they attempt to assert converses are synonyms. Scripture explicitly says Jesus is the 'Son of God.' No child is their parent. However, they read this as its converse, 'God the Son,' which is false. Hunter is the Son of Joe (Biden) but Hunter is not the President. God is who he is and we, his children, relate to him as Father.

May grace and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus, the Anointed One, surround you. First, I thank my God through Jesus the Anointed for all of you. Romans 1:7-8


I pray that God our Father and the Lord Jesus, the Anointed One, will shower you with grace and peace. 1 Cor 1:3


May God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ give you grace and peace.
2 Corinthians 1:2

I was not appointed by any group of people or any human authority, but by Jesus Christ himself and by God the Father, who raised Jesus from the dead.
Galatians 1:1

May God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ give you grace and peace.
Ephesians 1:2

May God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ give you grace and peace.
Philippians 1:2

May God our Father give you grace and peace. Colossians 1:2

We are writing to the church in Thessalonica, to you who belong to God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. 1 & 2 Thessalonians 1:1

May God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord give you grace, mercy, and peace.1 & 2 Timothy 1:2

May God the Father and Christ Jesus our Savior give you grace and peace.
Titus 1:4

May God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ give you grace and peace.
Philemon 1:3

For God never said to any angel what he said to Jesus: “You are my Son. Today I have become your Father.” God also said, “I will be his Father, and he will be my Son. Hebrews 1:5

Pure and genuine religion in the sight of God the Father means caring. James 1:27

God the Father knew you and chose you long ago, and his Spirit has made you holy. 1 Peter 1:2

when he received honor and glory from God the Father. 2 Peter 1:17

We proclaim ... our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ.
1 John 1:3 (NOTE: Again no reference to the HS)

Grace, mercy, and peace, which come from God the Father. 2 John 1:3

He has made us a Kingdom of priests for God his Father. Revelation 1:6

 

[theefaith]

Acts 16:17 The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation.

Paul was a servant of Jesus Christ who is the most high God! Acts 9:16

 

[face2face]

Acts 16:17 The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation.

Paul was a servant of Jesus Christ who is the most high God! Acts 9:16

You must have a spirit of divination there theefaith

 

[theefaith]

You must have a spirit of divination there theefaith

she still spoke the truth!

 

[face2face]

she still spoke the truth!

What, that these men are servants (slaves) of the Most High God - absolutely!!...the Lord Jesus being the ultimate example wouldn't you say? You know the text....though he were a Son...

Have you ever thought the audience might have had Zeus in mind? Just a little cultural context for you.

 

[MatthewG]

Hello Face2Face,

I have heard that question before - the Greeks would have known Zeus as the Alpha and omega - but There was one more so powerful then the created - Greek God Zeus - the Father of all, and the Word of the Father that created all things.

Thank you for all people who have shared there thoughts and opinions on this thread, (I did not think it even still existed).

God bless!

 

[theefaith]

What, that these men are servants (slaves) of the Most High God - absolutely!!...the Lord Jesus being the ultimate example wouldn't you say? You know the text....though he were a Son...

Have you ever thought the audience might have had Zeus in mind? Just a little cultural context for you.

Since when is a myth the most High God? Or since when is Paul a servant of Zeus?

 

[Marymog]

~

The only understanding that has been made know to me about the trinity.

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.


The Word was with God in the Beginning.
The Word was with God.
The Word was God.

Notice Word: Word was with with, and was God and was at the Beginning.

Now the Word: maybe it was in a the form of a shape; all I know is that have no idea what the Word looks like of God and have no ability to see it; Yes the Word was made flesh. This scripture however is still talking about in the Beginning; was the Word with, and was God.

To me the was God is this: the Word of God was a part of God. When God spoke; the Word then had the power to create. So God spoke through the Word -> in which Created the light, heavens, and earth, the Word was with God in the beginning.

The Word was with God, was apart of God (as the mouthpiece), and was with God in the beginning.

The Word - What does that look to do you?

~~~

The Holy Spirit - is not a person in my opinion because what does a spirit look like? Can you describe it to me exactly?

~~~

The Father : God ; our Father - Jesus Christ's Father, : God is a spirit ~ Not flesh and bones.

~~~

By and through scripture you can understand these concepts. Though many people like to argue against trinity and whatever, but no one will ever be 100% on it ever period in this lifetime.

My conclusions is that I just do not see 3 people in 1 God. Though do believe that God, the Son of God, and The Holy Spirit all agree and testify as one about the truth of the Heavenly Realms. I believe that Jesus Christ is the Lord God Almighty, the Lord, Son of God, King of Kings, Lord of Lords, and believe that the Lord Jesus Christ, and His Father are completely worthy of trusting and placing hope in.

Hi Matthew,

Help me out here on your opinion so I better understand what you are saying.

You say that you "do not see 3 people in 1 God" but then go on to list 3 people (entities if you will) "all agree and testify as one about the truth of the Heavenly Realms." Are those 3 not separate entities? What do you mean by "all"? Doesn't "all" mean all 3?

Your opinion does not seem to match up with what Jesus said in John 15:26 and John 16:7!!

Mary

 

[MatthewG]

26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, [even] the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall bear witness of me:

This is a witness of transformation being adopted into the kingdom of the Son, from Darkness to Light. being delivered from darkness by God into the Kingdom of his Son (Colossians 1:13).

7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth: It is expedient for you that I go away; for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I go, I will send him unto you.

A promise to his disciples to not give up believing and having faith, as Jesus would sent the Comforter to them. The Comforter is a witness, of being born-again, and being made right with God through Jesus. (Romans 5:1-6)

Not really sure, what is missing here? As I did state I do not see 3 people in one God, but do see that the Father, and the Word, and the Holy Spirit are all one.

One what, is the question? One in purpose and essence, they are the one(s) that make up the realities of Heaven.

Firstly God - being Yahweh.
Second God's Word - which became Jesus
Third the Holy Spirit of God - which was the comforter you mentioned earlier.

I base this off of - 1 John 5:7.

Hope this helps answer your question.

Thank you for your question, @Marymog .

 

[Marymog]

26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, [even] the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall bear witness of me:

This is a witness of transformation being adopted into the kingdom of the Son, from Darkness to Light. being delivered from darkness by God into the Kingdom of his Son (Colossians 1:13).

7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth: It is expedient for you that I go away; for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I go, I will send him unto you.

A promise to his disciples to not give up believing and having faith, as Jesus would sent the Comforter to them. The Comforter is a witness, of being born-again, and being made right with God through Jesus. (Romans 5:1-6)

Not really sure, what is missing here? As I did state I do not see 3 people in one God, but do see that the Father, and the Word, and the Holy Spirit are all one.

One what, is the question? One in purpose and essence, they are the one(s) that make up the realities of Heaven.

Firstly God - being Yahweh.
Second God's Word - which became Jesus
Third the Holy Spirit of God - which was the comforter you mentioned earlier.

I base this off of - 1 John 5:7.

Hope this helps answer your question.

Thank you for your question, @Marymog .

No, it doesn't help answer my question Matthew. You seem to be saying there are three but there isn't three. You just made it more confusing. I see absolutely no connection between the Trinity doctrine and Colossians 1:13 and Romans 5:1-6.

Who taught you this?

Mary

 

[MatthewG]

Just use of the bible.

Sorry it did not help. Take care, @Marymog if you have no more questions.

 

[theefaith]

According as his divine power!

“his divine power”!!!


2 Peter 1:1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,

3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

 

[Marymog]

Just use of the bible.

Sorry it did not help. Take care, @Marymog if you have no more questions.

Well, you did answer my question on who taught you. It appears you are self taught. The Trinity doctrine that is adhered to by a majority of Christianity came about by "Just use of the bible" also.

I guess the most confusing thing you said was that "Jesus would sent [sic] the Comforter to them" and then equated the Comforter to being born-again and then equated that to being made right with God through Jesus and equated all of that to Romans 5:1-6 of which says nothing about the Trinity or being born again. Your theory is confusing.....It sounds like you are saying that Jesus is sending them a action that they take (being born again, faith, hope(?)) instead of sending an actual helper to them even though He said he will go away and another will come. But maybe I am not understanding your self taught theory.

 

[MatthewG]

MaryMog

The first post is how I see things, as far as God, Gods Word and Gods spirit.

If one doesn’t get what I’m saying it’s not a salvation issue in my opinion.

I believe Jesus was the Word of God who came down born in the flesh, and he was divine by the soul of the Word of God being in the fleshly body of Jesus. The Word took on a lower form than the heavenly. So I don’t know what you are really curious about in all honesty.

 

[MatthewG]

Also I don’t mind what Majority thinks half the time, and I believe they have the freedom to choose what they will believe by following the Majority… I choose not to follow orthodoxy, or man made traditions, or really get much in to apologetics.

The most important part of this all is that we have love for God and love for others and be guided by the spirit in faith to Love.

 

[MatthewG]

But for us, There is one God, the Father, by whom all things were created, and for whom we live. And there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things were created, and through whom we live.
1 Corinthians 8

 

[theefaith]

But for us, There is one God, the Father, by whom all things were created, and for whom we live. And there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things were created, and through whom we live.
1 Corinthians 8

so d you believe in the divinity of Christ?