The Pre-Trib Rapture

[Joshua David]

jd and r,

I think I agree with Veteran more often than not. I am prepared to stand before God for what I teach.

As am I.


Joshua David

 

[tomwebster]

As am I.


Joshua David

You will, you will! Just as all teachers will!

 

[rockytopva]

A few gems...

"When you do not know a thing, to acknowledge that you do not know, is knowledge." - Confucius

"There are men who invent what they do not know. I do not." - Confucius

I simply do not have the audacity to invent doctrine... And then to slap God's name on it saying this is "God's outlook on the end time." The presentations I have made were made to the best of my understanding, in which I remain pliable. However I have not enough specific information from this board sway any of my beliefs. I did pick up a gem from Jiggyfly when he compared to spirit of Jezebel to those in the church trying to dominate and control...

 

[TWC]

Genesis 3:1-13

Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?”
The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3 but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’”

“You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman. “For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it. Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves.Then the man and his wife heard the sound of the LORD God as he was walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and they hid from the LORD God among the trees of the garden. But the LORD God called to the man, “Where are you?”

He answered, “I heard you in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid.”

And he said, “Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree that I commanded you not to eat from?”

The man said, “The woman you put here with me—she gave me some fruit from the tree, and I ate it.”

Then the LORD God said to the woman, “What is this you have done?”

The woman said, “The serpent deceived me, and I ate.”

According to John (Rev. 20:4-6) the resurrection of those who didn't worship the beast or image and didn't have his mark is referred to as the first resurrection. According to Paul, the living can't go before the dead. The Greek word for "first" is clearly chronological. It comes from the Greek word "protos" which is where we get the prefix "proto" which indicates first in chronological order.

According to Jesus, the elect are gathered at the second coming, which is after the tribulation.

When some of the Thessalonians began to buy into the lie that the Day of the Lord had already come, Paul told them to look for a great falling away and the revealing of the man of sin. If he had been teaching a pretribulation rapture in his first letter as so many pretribbers want to believe, he would have told them that their presence was enough evidence to know that the Day of the Lord hadn't come.

The Bible is very clear about this issue, yet the serpent in the garden will tell you that even though God has made things clear through His word, that instead He meant something else. The Bible says that there will be persecution and suffering, just as God said that eating the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge would bring death. The serpent lied, saying that eating the fruit wouldn't cause them to die, just as he lies to us, telling us that we won't suffer persecution on account of our faith (contradicting what the Bible says).

The Bible says that he who endures to the end will be saved. The pretribulation rapture doctrine states that believers will be spared of this tribulation by receiving an early exit. It's a lie right out of the Garden of Eden straight from the mouth of the serpent himself.

 

[veteran]

Exactly all you have to do is totally agree with whatever Veteran says is the truth, because he is the only one has heard from the Holy Spirit, and only those people who believe exactly like him follow God. All those other people are false prophets, and are doing Satan's work.

Do I have that right? Oh you may not put it in those exact words, but isn't this what you really think? Be honest.

Hmm......I got a riddle for you Veteran.

What do you, the Pope, the Pharisees, the Sadducees, David Koresh, and John Smith all have in common?

Answer They all thought that they were the only ones who knew the truth and yet they all thought something different.


Joshau David

All one actually need do is read all their Bible and actually heed It, and they'll easily be able to know those who don't that listen to doctrines of men instead, like yourself.

A few gems...

"When you do not know a thing, to acknowledge that you do not know, is knowledge." - Confucius

"There are men who invent what they do not know. I do not." - Confucius

I simply do not have the audacity to invent doctrine... And then to slap God's name on it saying this is "God's outlook on the end time." The presentations I have made were made to the best of my understanding, in which I remain pliable. However I have not enough specific information from this board sway any of my beliefs. I did pick up a gem from Jiggyfly when he compared to spirit of Jezebel to those in the church trying to dominate and control...

So now those on Pre-trib doctrines read Confucius' doctrines? No wonder they are in confucius, I mean confusion.

Genesis 3:1-13

According to John (Rev. 20:4-6) the resurrection of those who didn't worship the beast or image and didn't have his mark is referred to as the first resurrection. According to Paul, the living can't go before the dead. The Greek word for "first" is clearly chronological. It comes from the Greek word "protos" which is where we get the prefix "proto" which indicates first in chronological order.

According to Jesus, the elect are gathered at the second coming, which is after the tribulation.

When some of the Thessalonians began to buy into the lie that the Day of the Lord had already come, Paul told them to look for a great falling away and the revealing of the man of sin. If he had been teaching a pretribulation rapture in his first letter as so many pretribbers want to believe, he would have told them that their presence was enough evidence to know that the Day of the Lord hadn't come.

The Bible is very clear about this issue, yet the serpent in the garden will tell you that even though God has made things clear through His word, that instead He meant something else. The Bible says that there will be persecution and suffering, just as God said that eating the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge would bring death. The serpent lied, saying that eating the fruit wouldn't cause them to die, just as he lies to us, telling us that we won't suffer persecution on account of our faith (contradicting what the Bible says).

The Bible says that he who endures to the end will be saved. The pretribulation rapture doctrine states that believers will be spared of this tribulation by receiving an early exit. It's a lie right out of the Garden of Eden straight from the mouth of the serpent himself.

Exactly, but some are not really deceived with their pushing of the false pre-trib rapture doctrines. Some are doing it even when they well know what the Scripture says proves it wrong, they are rebellious against Christ Jesus and are not of His sheep. They are wolves dressed in sheep's clothing, workers of iniquity.

 

[Charlie]

Genesis 3:1-13




According to John (Rev. 20:4-6) the resurrection of those who didn't worship the beast or image and didn't have his mark is referred to as the first resurrection. According to Paul, the living can't go before the dead. The Greek word for "first" is clearly chronological. It comes from the Greek word "protos" which is where we get the prefix "proto" which indicates first in chronological order.

According to Jesus, the elect are gathered at the second coming, which is after the tribulation.

When some of the Thessalonians began to buy into the lie that the Day of the Lord had already come, Paul told them to look for a great falling away and the revealing of the man of sin. If he had been teaching a pretribulation rapture in his first letter as so many pretribbers want to believe, he would have told them that their presence was enough evidence to know that the Day of the Lord hadn't come.

The Bible is very clear about this issue, yet the serpent in the garden will tell you that even though God has made things clear through His word, that instead He meant something else. The Bible says that there will be persecution and suffering, just as God said that eating the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge would bring death. The serpent lied, saying that eating the fruit wouldn't cause them to die, just as he lies to us, telling us that we won't suffer persecution on account of our faith (contradicting what the Bible says).

The Bible says that he who endures to the end will be saved. The pretribulation rapture doctrine states that believers will be spared of this tribulation by receiving an early exit. It's a lie right out of the Garden of Eden straight from the mouth of the serpent himself.

You compare those who believe in a pre-trib rapture with the serpent in the garden but you could be compared to that serpent. my friend.

The few who will be found 'worthy', in Rev. 3, and the members of the church in Philadelphia, who will be kept 'from the hour of temptation', Rev. 3:10, and all their their dead comrades will be among those who will be 'accounted worthy' of Luke 21:36 and Luke 20:33-36. They will be part of the pre-trib resurrection/rapture

Are you obeying Jesus instruction in Luke 21:36?

Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

God Bless you. Charlie

 

[veteran]

You compare those who believe in a pre-trib rapture with the serpent in the garden but you could be compared to that serpent. my friend.

No, he did not compare those who believe a pre-trib rapture with the serpent in the garden. You need to actually comprehend what you read, for he said the pre-trib rapture theory is a lie right out of the mouth of the serpent, used to deceive just like how that old serpent deceived Eve.

 

[rockytopva]

Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame. - Revelation 16:15

Metaphors....

Thief - Jesus will come as a thief in then night... When no one is awaiting him, in times like Noah's... In times like today...
Garments - Your spiritual clothing... Faith, hope, charity, love, joy, peace, etc...
Nakeness - No spiritual clothing... Adultery, fornication, fear, depression, hate, etc...
They - The angels that will be sent to fetch your soul!
Shame - The activities that were not approved of God.




The scripture says that the rapture (the Lords coming, the even of the thief, whatever) will happen in a time when no one will be waiting for it...


3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. - 2 Peter 2:3, 4



But the Lord come

[sup]10[/sup]But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. [sup]11[/sup]Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

[sup]12[/sup]Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? - 2 peter 2:10, 11,12



36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. 37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,


39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?

46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.

47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.

48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;

49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;

50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,

51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. - Matthew 24: 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45,46, 47, 38, 49, 50, 51


1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. 2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.- 1 Thessalonians 5: 1, 2, 3




[sup]13[/sup]Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; - Titus 12:13




[sup]3[/sup] Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;- 2 Thessalonians 2:3







In order for the thief to come and take us away...




1. There must be a great falling away (In Laodicea)

2. The anti-christ must be revealed (After the times of the black horseman)

 

[Charlie]

No, he did not compare those who believe a pre-trib rapture with the serpent in the garden. You need to actually comprehend what you read, for he said the pre-trib rapture theory is a lie right out of the mouth of the serpent, used to deceive just like how that old serpent deceived Eve.

Sorry to have offended you. It was my comprehension of what I read that led me write what I did.

You appear to believe the pre-trib rapture theory is a lie.

Would you be kind enough to give me your understanding of the scriptures I quoted, please?

God Bless you. Charlie

 

[TWC]

You compare those who believe in a pre-trib rapture with the serpent in the garden but you could be compared to that serpent. my friend.

The few who will be found 'worthy', in Rev. 3, and the members of the church in Philadelphia, who will be kept 'from the hour of temptation', Rev. 3:10, and all their their dead comrades will be among those who will be 'accounted worthy' of Luke 21:36 and Luke 20:33-36. They will be part of the pre-trib resurrection/rapture

Are you obeying Jesus instruction in Luke 21:36?

Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

God Bless you. Charlie

What pretribulation resurrection are you talking about? The first resurrection is of those who didn't worship the beast or his image and didn't take his mark. Remember that in Luke 21:36, "all these things" includes the wars and rumors of wars, nation rising against nation and kingdom against kingdom, earthquakes in various places, famines, and pestilences. If He was talking about a rapture, then He lied, because all of these things have been going on for thousands of years and there hasn't been one.

The word for "keep" in Revelation 3:10 is "téreó", which means to watch over, to guard, or to keep intact. A physical removal is not implied.

I'm not comparing the believers of the pretribulation rapture with the serpent, just those who dogmatically teach it.

 

[Joshua David]

What pretribulation resurrection are you talking about? The first resurrection is of those who didn't worship the beast or his image and didn't take his mark. Remember that in Luke 21:36, "all these things" includes the wars and rumors of wars, nation rising against nation and kingdom against kingdom, earthquakes in various places, famines, and pestilences. If He was talking about a rapture, then He lied, because all of these things have been going on for thousands of years and there hasn't been one.

The word for "keep" in Revelation 3:10 is "téreó", which means to watch over, to guard, or to keep intact. A physical removal is not implied.

I'm not comparing the believers of the pretribulation rapture with the serpent, just those who dogmatically teach it.

I would agree with you on the definition of keep, that a physical removal is not implied in the definition of téreó. But if you look at the definition of "from", you get a total different picture.

1537 ἐκ, ἐκπερισσῶς, ἐκφωνέω [ek, ex /ek/] prep. A primary preposition denoting origin (the point whence action or motion proceeds), from, out (of place, time, or cause; GK 1666 and together with Strongs 4053 as GK 1735, together with Strongs 5455 as GK 1771; 921 occurrences; AV translates as “of” 367 times, “from” 181 times, “out of” 162 times, “by” 55 times, “on” 34 times, “with” 25 times, and translated miscellaneously 97 times. 1 out of, from, by, away from.​

prep prep: prepositionGK Goodrick-KohlenbergerAV Authorized VersionStrong, James: The Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible : Showing Every Word of the Text of the Common English Version of the Canonical Books, and Every Occurrence of Each Word in Regular Order. electronic ed. Ontario : Woodside Bible Fellowship., 1996, S. G1537


Hmm.. let's see the point whence action or motion preceeds.... out ( of place, time, or cause )

So he promised that he would keep ( watch us, guard us, and keep us intact ) from ( the point where action or motion preceeds out of the place, time, or/and cause of ) the trial about to come upon the who earth.... sounds like a physical removal to me. Especially when you consider that the scriptures tell us that the Beast will go to war with the saints, and overcome them. Now does that sound like keeping us out of the place, time, or cause of the trial?

Things that make you go hmm....

Joshua David

 

[Charlie]

Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame. - Revelation 16:15

Metaphors....

Thief - Jesus will come as a thief in then night... When no one is awaiting him, in times like Noah's... In times like today...
Garments - Your spiritual clothing... Faith, hope, charity, love, joy, peace, etc...
Nakeness - No spiritual clothing... Adultery, fornication, fear, depression, hate, etc...
They - The angels that will be sent to fetch your soul!
Shame - The activities that were not approved of God.




The scripture says that the rapture (the Lords coming, the even of the thief, whatever) will happen in a time when no one will be waiting for it...


3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. - 2 Peter 2:3, 4



But the Lord come

[sup]10[/sup]But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. [sup]11[/sup]Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

[sup]12[/sup]Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? - 2 peter 2:10, 11,12



36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. 37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,


39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?

46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.

47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.

48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;

49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;

50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,

51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. - Matthew 24: 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45,46, 47, 38, 49, 50, 51


1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. 2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.- 1 Thessalonians 5: 1, 2, 3

[sup]13[/sup]Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; - Titus 12:13

[sup]3[/sup] Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;- 2 Thessalonians 2:3



In order for the thief to come and take us away...




1. There must be a great falling away (In Laodicea)

2. The anti-christ must be revealed (After the times of the black horseman)

Yes, there must be a falling away and many in churches, other than those in Laodicea, have been falling away of recent times to the extent they are no longer 'in Christ'. We know, from 1 Thess. 4:15-16, 'the dead in Christ shall rise first and we who are alive and remain in Christ will be caught up, (raptured).'

As to the antichrist, there are many who believe that individual is already alive and there can be little doubt Muslims are anti-Christ. It is possible the antichrist will be one of them and the people of Islam are in need of a single strong ruler. He will be alive and active before and after the times of the black horseman.

God Bless you. Charlie

 

[Charlie]

Dear TWC:

The first resurrection of Rev. 20:6 will be the first resurrection of the 1,000 years. It will take place after Satan has been bound for the 1,000 years.

Yes, the things you mentiion have been ongoing but their severity during the tribulation will be much greater and will include the wrath of God, Rev.15-16.

God Bless you. Charlie

 

[TWC]

I would agree with you on the definition of keep, that a physical removal is not implied in the definition of téreó. But if you look at the definition of "from", you get a total different picture.

1537 ἐκ, ἐκπερισσῶς, ἐκφωνέω [ek, ex /ek/] prep. A primary preposition denoting origin (the point whence action or motion proceeds), from, out (of place, time, or cause; GK 1666 and together with Strongs 4053 as GK 1735, together with Strongs 5455 as GK 1771; 921 occurrences; AV translates as “of” 367 times, “from” 181 times, “out of” 162 times, “by” 55 times, “on” 34 times, “with” 25 times, and translated miscellaneously 97 times. 1 out of, from, by, away from.​

prep prep: prepositionGK Goodrick-KohlenbergerAV Authorized VersionStrong, James: The Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible : Showing Every Word of the Text of the Common English Version of the Canonical Books, and Every Occurrence of Each Word in Regular Order. electronic ed. Ontario : Woodside Bible Fellowship., 1996, S. G1537


Hmm.. let's see the point whence action or motion preceeds.... out ( of place, time, or cause )

So he promised that he would keep ( watch us, guard us, and keep us intact ) from ( the point where action or motion preceeds out of the place, time, or/and cause of ) the trial about to come upon the who earth.... sounds like a physical removal to me. Especially when you consider that the scriptures tell us that the Beast will go to war with the saints, and overcome them. Now does that sound like keeping us out of the place, time, or cause of the trial?

Things that make you go hmm....

Joshua David

Whence means coming from, not going to. The preposition "from" indicates where the action started, not where it's going.

Dear TWC:

The first resurrection of Rev. 20:6 will be the first resurrection of the 1,000 years. It will take place after Satan has been bound for the 1,000 years.

Yes, the things you mentiion have been ongoing but their severity during the tribulation will be much greater and will include the wrath of God, Rev.15-16.

God Bless you. Charlie

Revelation 20:4-6
I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy are those who have part in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.

The phrase "of the 1,000 years" isn't part of what John wrote.

Revelation 22:18-19
I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.

Genesis 3:2-5
The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’”
“You will not surely die,” the serpent said to the woman “For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

 

[daviddee]

Thanks for the post, good teaching information.....I copyed it........

thanks again

 

[Charlie]

Whence means coming from, not going to. The preposition "from" indicates where the action started, not where it's going.



Revelation 20:4-6
I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy are those who have part in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.

The phrase "of the 1,000 years" isn't part of what John wrote.

Revelation 22:18-19
I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.

Genesis 3:2-5
The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’”
“You will not surely die,” the serpent said to the woman “For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

Rev 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.


The 1,000 years is referred to in verses 2 and 3, my friend.

That is enough for me.

God Bless you. Charlie

 

[rockytopva]

Make thee two trumpets of silver; of a whole piece shalt thou make them: that thou mayest use them for the calling of the assembly, and for the journeying of the camps. - Numbers 10:2

I believe that these two trumpets represent...

1. First Trumpet - The Holy Spirit and the worship in the sanctuary.
2. Second Trumpet - Jesus, The Word of God, and the preaching in the sanctuary.

I do not fear in telling you to seek the Spirit of God as well as the word in these matters... For...

[sup]9[/sup]But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

[sup]10[/sup]But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

[sup]11[/sup]For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. - 1 Corinthians 2: 9, 10, 11




If you get head to toe filled with the Holy Ghost he will testify of these things as true.

 

[Joshua David]

Whence means coming from, not going to. The preposition "from" indicates where the action started, not where it's going.

Yes, you are right.. I mean going from one location, or time, to another location or time. Which is a total different picture than keeping you through, which is what the Post tribs think. What did he say he would keep us from? The trial. Where is the trial? On the whole earth. So the earth is the point of origin from which movement takes place out of the time, and location of the Trial.


And that is the perfect understanding of the pretribulation rapture.


Joshua David

 

[TWC]

Rev 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.


The 1,000 years is referred to in verses 2 and 3, my friend.

That is enough for me.

God Bless you. Charlie

What part of that implies that this first resurrection isn't actually the first resurrection? Just because two things are mentioned in the same book as happening at around the same time doesn't mean that the two are exclusive to one another. Is the God of Genesis 1 simply the God of the creation week where there were others who came after Him?

Yes, you are right.. I mean going from one location, or time, to another location or time. Which is a total different picture than keeping you through, which is what the Post tribs think. What did he say he would keep us from? The trial. Where is the trial? On the whole earth. So the earth is the point of origin from which movement takes place out of the time, and location of the Trial.


And that is the perfect understanding of the pretribulation rapture.


Joshua David

There's a word that simply means "from" and another that actually means "away from" and does imply removal. John used the former here (ek), not the latter (apo). If he had been implying removal, he would have used the latter. He knew the difference. Like the verse itself, a preposition needs context for its full meaning. It still doesn't make up for the other instances where scripture debunks this doctrine.

 

[Charlie]

What part of that implies that this first resurrection isn't actually the first resurrection? Just because two things are mentioned in the same book as happening at around the same time doesn't mean that the two are exclusive to one another.

No part of what John wrote implies that this first resurrection is not the first resurrection of the 1,000 years.

The first resurrection of the New Testament was the resurrection of Lazarus.

God Bless you. Charlie