The Pre-Trib Rapture

[GISMYS_7]

Pray for some wisdom and understanding of God's Word!!

 

[Taken]

Figurative of Jesus completing the final harvest of those who would not be found written in the Lamb's book of life.

Scripture does not say that.

 

[WPM]

Pray for some wisdom and understanding of God's Word!!

Stop avoiding the obvious. You clearly have no answer.

 

[Timtofly]

Sure.

It’s not unreasonable to think they’ll be part of the first resurrection mentioned by Paul when Christ comes back.

But to totally separate them from the saints is not required for the event order I pointed out from scripture to play out as written. It seems the order you are putting forward requires needless inordinate separating of people and events just because they are referenced by different terms.

So God should not have separated Israel from the world because labels get too confusing? Israel is not the church. Did God treat Israel different from the NT church or was that just dispensational nonsense?

Of course it is confusing. You have a majority of Adam's descendants who will end up in the LOF and their names removed from the Lamb's book of life. The other part are redeemed, but not all will make it into Paradise.

So Amil reject a future 1,000 year reign, because they cannot figure out all the labels placed on humanity?

There are those in the Lamb's book of life. There are those who are not.

There are some in the full image of God body, soul, and spirit. There are some in the image of God body and soul. Then us on earth who are still dead in Adam's flesh. The soul is the only part redeemed by God.

Those in sheol are what? Deader than dead?

 

[Timtofly]

Scripture does not say that.

Many claim Revelation is figurative. Scripture does not say that either.

The book of Revelation is the final harvest mentioned in Matthew 13. There will not be multiple final harvests.

 

[The Light]

The coming of the Lord is what we are waiting for as I briefly laid out in my first post. Everything else must line up with that foundation laid by scripture. You can muse and meditate how those things line up in that order, but that IS the biblical order.

So does Jesus return at the 6th seal or does Jesus return at the 7th trumpet? You say He only comes once (I think)

When the Antichrist comes you will know that the coming of the Lord is near. But you will not know the hour.

You will neither know the day nor the hour.
Matt 25
13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.
And if you don't know the day, that poses a problem, because many will claim to be Christ. So who is the Antichrist that you are looking for.
Matt 24
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

First off, Jesus is coming before THE ANTICHRIST and if you understood the word as you claim, you would know who the Antichrist is.

This is one event.

I don't know what you believe, but I'm going to guess that you think that the Last Trump is the 7th trumpet blown by an angel. How can that be the trump of God or the voice of God? It is not the same event. If you don't think that the last trump is the 7th trumpet blown by an angel, I certainly apologize, but what do you believe?

Rev 1
10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

And you proceed with a long winded speech with no scripture references.

Typical.

Forgive me. I was under the impression that you had a vague understanding of scripture and would know the quote if I referenced the context. I will be happy to quote scripture. Take a look at some of my posts and you will usually find scriptures in the post.

Keep thinking that.

You are believing something none of the Apostles taught neither Christ himself.

Mmmm, really?

You probably won't understand this, but I will post it anyway, just in case.
Rom 11
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

 

[Enoch111]

So does Jesus return at the 6th seal or does Jesus return at the 7th trumpet? You say He only comes once (I think)

Even though the 6th seal precedes the 7th seal, the Olivet Discourse shows that the Second Coming of Christ is AFTER the events in the 6th seal.

 

[The Light]

Even though the 6th seal precedes the 7th seal, the Olivet Discourse shows that the Second Coming of Christ is AFTER the events in the 6th seal.

How to you come to this conclusion?

 

[Enoch111]

How to you come to this conclusion?

Here's how we arrive at that conclusion:

MATTHEW 24:THE OLIVET DISCOURSE
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of Man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

REVELATION 6: THE SAME CATACLYSMIC COSMIC EVENTS
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; 13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. 14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

The correspondence is unmistakable. It is immediately after these events that Christ comes "with power and great glory". "The tribulation of those days" equals the Great Tribulation, which equals the events of the the 7th trumpet within the 7th seal.

 

[Keraz]

Here's how we arrive at that conclusion:

MATTHEW 24:THE OLIVET DISCOURSE
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of Man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

REVELATION 6: THE SAME CATACLYSMIC COSMIC EVENTS
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; 13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. 14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

The correspondence is unmistakable. It is immediately after these events that Christ comes "with power and great glory". "The tribulation of those days" equals the Great Tribulation, which equals the events of the the 7th trumpet within the 7th seal.

Actually the prophesies about the Return do not correspond with the Sixth Seal worldwide disaster, they are plainly different events.
Sure there will be meteor showers and similarities, but they do not match and cannot be the same event. The moon blood red at the Sixth Seal and dark at the Return, refutes your belief.

Why should the Lord come in vengeance and wrath at His glorious Return. He only destroys the armies of the Anti-Christ and chains him up then.

 

[The Light]

Actually the prophesies about the Return do not correspond with the Sixth Seal worldwide disaster, they are plainly different events.
Sure there will be meteor showers and similarities, but they do not match and cannot be the same event. The moon blood red at the Sixth Seal and dark at the Return, refutes your belief.

You might want to go watch a video of a blood moon. It is a lunar eclipse where the moon goes dark before it turns to a blood moon.

So the 6th seal event is the Matthew 24 event and the coming of Jesus.

 

[The Light]

Here's how we arrive at that conclusion:

MATTHEW 24:THE OLIVET DISCOURSE
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of Man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

REVELATION 6: THE SAME CATACLYSMIC COSMIC EVENTS
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; 13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. 14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

The correspondence is unmistakable. It is immediately after these events that Christ comes "with power and great glory". "The tribulation of those days" equals the Great Tribulation,

Well done. I agree completely. The correspondence is unmistakable. Jesus comes and sends His angels to gather the elect.
Matthew 24
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

which equals the events of the the 7th trumpet within the 7th seal.

Whoa, Whoa, Whoa. Hit the brakes hard. You are heading off the track. Where are you going? The events of the sixth seal stand on their own. They do not equal the events of the 7th trumpet. We can absolutely prove that with scripture. The question is, are you going to agree with scripture and understand, or are you going to hold fast to that which does not agree with scripture.

2 Thes 2
Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

These verses should tell you that the gathering from heaven and earth happen BEFORE day of the Lord.

The sixth seal, does not equal the 7th trumpet. We can prove that several different ways, if you don't understand 2 Thes 2

 

[Truth7t7]

You might want to go watch a video of a blood moon. It is a lunar eclipse where the moon goes dark before it turns to a blood moon.

So the 6th seal event is the Matthew 24 event and the coming of Jesus.

As Enoch has clearly shown, the second coming is "After" the events of the 6th seal, simple, clear, easy to understand

 

[Truth7t7]

You might want to go watch a video of a blood moon. It is a lunar eclipse where the moon goes dark before it turns to a blood moon.

So the 6th seal event is the Matthew 24 event and the coming of Jesus.

Fact is, your not selling your 6th seal return of Jesus to anyone, your eschatology is the new kid on the block, not found in scripture

Whoa, Whoa, Whoa

Jesus Is The Lord

 

[The Light]

As Enoch has clearly shown, the second coming is "After" the events of the 6th seal, simple, clear, easy to understand

And yet you were afraid to quote chapter and verse? Sure, Jesus comes at the end of the trumpets, with the armies of heaven who are in heaven attending the marriage supper BECAUSE there were raptured to heaven already.

Rev 19
And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:

Rev 19
9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

Paul has already made it clear that the gathering from heaven and earth occurs BEFORE the day of the Lord.

 

[The Light]

Fact is, your not selling your 6th seal return of Jesus to anyone, your eschatology is the new kid on the block, not found in scripture

Whoa, Whoa, Whoa

Jesus Is The Lord

There are plenty of people that believe Jesus returns for the Church at the sixth seal, known as the prewrath rapture. It of course is not the church being raptured at the 6th seal as they believe as the Church is already in heaven in Revelation 4 and 5.

Rumor has it that the new kid on the block said the earth was not flat but round.

It's hard for me to understand how you continue to believe that the Lord only returns once, at the end of wrath, when the scripture proves that is TOTAL ERROR.

 

[Truth7t7]

Paul has already made it clear that the gathering from heaven and earth occurs BEFORE the day of the Lord.

Paul taught no such thing, it's your imagination and assumption driving your teaching and belief

Jesus Christ returns in fire and final judgement, dissolving this earth by fire (The End)

 

[Truth7t7]

There are plenty of people that believe Jesus returns for the Church at the sixth seal, known as the prewrath rapture. It of course is not the church being raptured at the 6th seal as they believe as the Church is already in heaven in Revelation 4 and 5.

Rumor has it that the new kid on the block said the earth was not flat but round.

It's hard for me to understand how you continue to believe that the Lord only returns once, at the end of wrath, when the scripture proves that is TOTAL ERROR.

Revelation 4 shows no such thing as a rapture taking place,1 Corinthians 15:51-54 clearly teaches the "Catching Up" takes place at the Lords return, (Then Cometh The End) 1 Corinthians 15:23-24

It's your human imagination, human logic, and assumptions, that believes and teaches such

There is one future coming of Jesus Christ, it's called by many "The Second Coming" as scripture clearly teaches, not a Third or Fourth

(Read it real slow) "The Second Time"!

Hebrews 9:28KJV
28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

 

[Enoch111]

The events of the sixth seal stand on their own. They do not equal the events of the 7th trumpet.

That is not what I said. It is Jesus who said that AFTER the tribulation of those days, these events would take place. And AFTER that He could come "with power and great glory". So draw your own conclusions.

 

[Timtofly]

Fact is, your not selling your 6th seal return of Jesus to anyone, your eschatology is the new kid on the block, not found in scripture

Whoa, Whoa, Whoa

Jesus Is The Lord

It is in Scripture. Just not in human opinionated theology.