The Pre-Trib Rapture

[GISMYS_7]

Future Prophecies Revealed | Tom Hughes and Bill Salus
(2) Future Prophecies Revealed | Tom Hughes and Bill Salus - YouTube

 

[WPM]

Future Prophecies Revealed | Tom Hughes and Bill Salus
(2) Future Prophecies Revealed | Tom Hughes and Bill Salus - YouTube

If you cannot explain the grounds of your position here there is zero chance I am going to some unknown online link you recommend. Doing this tells me you have no argument.

 

[GISMYS_7]

If you cannot explain the grounds of your position here there is zero chance I am going to some unknown online link you recommend. Doing this tells me you have no argument.

rofl!!! Fear of truth is a weapon of satan!!!

 

[Truth7t7]

It is in Scripture. Just not in human opinionated theology.

You will closely note you didn't provide scripture to support a pre-trib rapture, because there isn't any

 

[Timtofly]

You will closely note you didn't provide scripture to support a pre-trib rapture, because there isn't any

No one has given Scripture to even prove their rendition of the tribulation. The last 1992 years has been great tribulation on the church. That is the post tribulation, since Jesus just left the first time when the tribulation of those days started.

After the Second Coming in the 6th Seal, there will be tribulation in the Trumpets.

You really need to know the chapters that give the Seals and Trumpets? You know the verses. You just have the wrong opinion about them.

 

[GISMYS_7]

You will closely note you didn't provide scripture to support a pre-trib rapture, because there isn't any

Read slowly!!
Don't deny the Rapture and be left behind!!!
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
13 And now, dear brothers, I want you to know what happens to a Christian when he dies so that when it happens, you will not be full of sorrow, as those are who have no hope. 14 For since we believe that Jesus died and then came back to life again, we can also believe that when Jesus returns, God will bring back with him all the Christians who have died.

15 I can tell you this directly from the Lord: that we who are still living when the Lord returns will not rise to meet him ahead of those who are in their graves. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven with a mighty shout and with the soul-stirring cry of the archangel and the great trumpet-call of God. And the believers who are dead will be the first to rise to meet the Lord. 17 Then we who are still alive and remain on the earth """will be caught up""" with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air and remain with him forever. 18 So comfort and encourage each other with this news.===Caught up IS the rapture. After the years of the great tribulation Jesus will return to earth and bring the raptured believers with Him and defeat all evil and set up His eternal kingdom here on earth and God will have His home here for all eternity!. PTL

 

[WPM]

Read slowly!!
Don't deny the Rapture and be left behind!!!
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
13 And now, dear brothers, I want you to know what happens to a Christian when he dies so that when it happens, you will not be full of sorrow, as those are who have no hope. 14 For since we believe that Jesus died and then came back to life again, we can also believe that when Jesus returns, God will bring back with him all the Christians who have died.

15 I can tell you this directly from the Lord: that we who are still living when the Lord returns will not rise to meet him ahead of those who are in their graves. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven with a mighty shout and with the soul-stirring cry of the archangel and the great trumpet-call of God. And the believers who are dead will be the first to rise to meet the Lord. 17 Then we who are still alive and remain on the earth """will be caught up""" with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air and remain with him forever. 18 So comfort and encourage each other with this news.===Caught up IS the rapture. After the years of the great tribulation Jesus will return to earth and bring the raptured believers with Him and defeat all evil and set up His eternal kingdom here on earth and God will have His home here for all eternity!. PTL

1 Thessalonians 4 does not prove Pretrib. All it proves is that there is a catching away of the saints when Jesus comes. We both agree that there is a catching away in 1 Thessalonians 4. That is not the issue. But you force a 7-years trib into it and a 3rd coming that does not exist in the text.

So:

There is no ushering the Church into heaven in 1 Thessalonians 4:14-5:9.
There is no 7-year tribulation in 1 Thessalonians 4:14-5:9.
There is no 3rd coming in 1 Thessalonians 4:14-5:9.
There are no survivors in 1 Thessalonians 4:14-5. None shall escape.
There is no earthquake in 1 Thessalonians 4:14-5:9.
There is no Pretrib in 1 Thessalonians 4:14-5:9.

What we do have in the text is "sudden destruction" accompanying Christ's return from which no one survives. This support Amillenialism and forbids both Pretrib and Premil.

 

[Timtofly]

1 Thessalonians 4 does not prove Pretrib. All it proves is that there is a catching away of the saints when Jesus comes. We both agree that there is a catching away in 1 Thessalonians 4. That is not the issue. But you force a 7-years trib into it and a 3rd coming that does not exist in the text.

So:

There is no ushering the Church into heaven in 1 Thessalonians 4:14-5:9.
There is no 7-year tribulation in 1 Thessalonians 4:14-5:9.
There is no 3rd coming in 1 Thessalonians 4:14-5:9.
There are no survivors in 1 Thessalonians 4:14-5. None shall escape.
There is no earthquake in 1 Thessalonians 4:14-5:9.
There is no Pretrib in 1 Thessalonians 4:14-5:9.

What we do have in the text is "sudden destruction" accompanying Christ's return from which no one survives. This support Amillenialism and forbids both Pretrib and Premil.

There is also no resurrection of the wicked, so stop pretending Jesus does not come and rule on the earth at the Second Coming.

The GT tribulation is the final harvest per Jesus in Matthew 13. The length of the rule is found in Revelation 20. These 2 Scriptures complement 1 Thessalonians 4. Every one killed in an instant is not found in 1 Thessalonians 4. The wicked are not raptured nor caught up in 1 Thessalonians 4.

The Second Coming is in Revelation 6, not the obvious "when" every one thinks they know: Revelation 19. Jesus said when you think not. So the obvious choice in Revelation 19 would not be a Second Coming. Call it a third Coming or not. There is no verse in the Bible that condemns a teaching that has multiple comings of Jesus.

Any one who claims Jesus cannot come again more than once, is making an assertion. Jesus appeared in the fiery furnace in Babylon. Jesus ate food in Abraham's tent when Sodom and Gomorrah was destroyed. Jesus only has one body. Jesus is God, and can appear on earth in the most unexpected times or places.

The longer the Second Coming is withheld, the shorter the time given to the Trumpets and Thunders. For the sake of the growth of the church, God is letting the church harvest more souls. The church ends as well as the fulness of the Gentiles at the Second Coming in the 6th Seal. That is not a set date.

The return in Revelation 19 is 42 months after Satan is allowed to sit on Jesus' throne in Jerusalem and "claim he is God" to all those left after the final harvest. That return will be a well known date. All will know when Satan is granted 100% control of earth. Revelation 13.

The well known return in Revelation 19 is when all humanity will be killed. Not in Revelation 6, and certainly not in 1 Thessalonians 4.

 

[Truth7t7]

There is also no resurrection of the wicked, so stop pretending Jesus does not come and rule on the earth at the Second Coming.

The GT tribulation is the final harvest per Jesus in Matthew 13. The length of the rule is found in Revelation 20. These 2 Scriptures complement 1 Thessalonians 4. Every one killed in an instant is not found in 1 Thessalonians 4. The wicked are not raptured nor caught up in 1 Thessalonians 4.

The Second Coming is in Revelation 6, not the obvious "when" every one thinks they know: Revelation 19. Jesus said when you think not. So the obvious choice in Revelation 19 would not be a Second Coming. Call it a third Coming or not. There is no verse in the Bible that condemns a teaching that has multiple comings of Jesus.

Any one who claims Jesus cannot come again more than once, is making an assertion. Jesus appeared in the fiery furnace in Babylon. Jesus ate food in Abraham's tent when Sodom and Gomorrah was destroyed. Jesus only has one body. Jesus is God, and can appear on earth in the most unexpected times or places.

The longer the Second Coming is withheld, the shorter the time given to the Trumpets and Thunders. For the sake of the growth of the church, God is letting the church harvest more souls. The church ends as well as the fulness of the Gentiles at the Second Coming in the 6th Seal. That is not a set date.

The return in Revelation 19 is 42 months after Satan is allowed to sit on Jesus' throne in Jerusalem and "claim he is God" to all those left after the final harvest. That return will be a well known date. All will know when Satan is granted 100% control of earth. Revelation 13.

The well known return in Revelation 19 is when all humanity will be killed. Not in Revelation 6, and certainly not in 1 Thessalonians 4.

There Will Be No 1,000 Year Millennial Kingdom Upon This Earth, Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, Dissolving This Existing Earth By Fire, Immediately After The Tribulation

This Existing Heaven And Earth Will Be (Replaced) By The New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, A New Creation, At The Return Of Jesus Christ

(Behold, I Make All Things New)

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

Psalm 46:6KJV
6 The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted.

Psalm 50:3KJV
3 Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.

Psalm 97:5KJV
5 The hills melted like wax at the presence of the Lord, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.

Isaiah 66:15KJV
15 For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

Zechariah 14:12KJV
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Nahum 1:5-6KJV
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.
6 Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? his fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are thrown down by him.

Revelation 20:9KJV
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

 

[Truth7t7]

Read slowly!!
Don't deny the Rapture and be left behind!!!
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
13 And now, dear brothers, I want you to know what happens to a Christian when he dies so that when it happens, you will not be full of sorrow, as those are who have no hope. 14 For since we believe that Jesus died and then came back to life again, we can also believe that when Jesus returns, God will bring back with him all the Christians who have died.

15 I can tell you this directly from the Lord: that we who are still living when the Lord returns will not rise to meet him ahead of those who are in their graves. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven with a mighty shout and with the soul-stirring cry of the archangel and the great trumpet-call of God. And the believers who are dead will be the first to rise to meet the Lord. 17 Then we who are still alive and remain on the earth """will be caught up""" with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air and remain with him forever. 18 So comfort and encourage each other with this news.===Caught up IS the rapture. After the years of the great tribulation Jesus will return to earth and bring the raptured believers with Him and defeat all evil and set up His eternal kingdom here on earth and God will have His home here for all eternity!. PTL

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 Isn't A Pre-Tribulation Rapture, Dont Be Deceived

The main scripture used by supporters of the (Pre-Trib Rapture) is 1 Thess 4:15-17 below, this is nothing more than the (Second Coming) (Last Day) resurrection, not a (Pre-Trib Rapture), don't be deceived

1. Is a resurrection of the believer seen in 1 Thess 4:15-17 below, 100% Yes!

2. Does this resurrection take place on the (Last Day) as Jesus Christ taught below in John 6:39-40, 100% Yes!

3. Is the (Last Day) the time of final judgement as Jesus Christ taught in John 12:48 below, 100% Yes!

Many deny the truth of Gods words below, that are simple, clear, and very easy to understand.

(THE SECOND COMING, LAST DAY RESURRECTION)

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17KJV
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

(THE LAST DAY RESURRECTION)

John 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

(THE LAST DAY JUDGEMENT)

John 12:48KJV
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

 

[Timtofly]

There Will Be No 1,000 Year Millennial Kingdom Upon This Earth, Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, Dissolving This Existing Earth By Fire, Immediately After The Tribulation

This Existing Heaven And Earth Will Be (Replaced) By The New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, A New Creation, At The Return Of Jesus Christ

(Behold, I Make All Things New)

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

Psalm 46:6KJV
6 The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted.

Psalm 50:3KJV
3 Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.

Psalm 97:5KJV
5 The hills melted like wax at the presence of the Lord, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.

Isaiah 66:15KJV
15 For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

Zechariah 14:12KJV
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Nahum 1:5-6KJV
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.
6 Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? his fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are thrown down by him.

Revelation 20:9KJV
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

The claim was about 1 Thessalonians 4. You did not even quote that Scripture. Once again, stating that something cannot happen is an assertion. God is not in the habit of declaring things that won't happen.

 

[Timtofly]

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 Isn't A Pre-Tribulation Rapture, Dont Be Deceived

The main scripture used by supporters of the (Pre-Trib Rapture) is 1 Thess 4:15-17 below, this is nothing more than the (Second Coming) (Last Day) resurrection, not a (Pre-Trib Rapture), don't be deceived

1. Is a resurrection of the believer seen in 1 Thess 4:15-17 below, 100% Yes!

2. Does this resurrection take place on the (Last Day) as Jesus Christ taught below in John 6:39-40, 100% Yes!

3. Is the (Last Day) the time of final judgement as Jesus Christ taught in John 12:48 below, 100% Yes!

Many deny the truth of Gods words below, that are simple, clear, and very easy to understand.

(THE SECOND COMING, LAST DAY RESURRECTION)

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17KJV
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

(THE LAST DAY RESURRECTION)

John 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

(THE LAST DAY JUDGEMENT)

John 12:48KJV
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

That "Last Day" has a start and a finish. It is also 1,000 years in length. Some events happen at the start, some during, and some after the end.

 

[Enoch111]

That "Last Day" has a start and a finish. It is also 1,000 years in length.

Actually it exceeds 1,000 years but you are on the right track. "The last day" is a metaphor for a very long period of time. But for God and Christ it is equivalent to a day (more or less).

 

[Truth7t7]

The claim was about 1 Thessalonians 4. You did not even quote that Scripture. Once again, stating that something cannot happen is an assertion. God is not in the habit of declaring things that won't happen.

You made a false claim that Jesus returns to rule on this earth

You have been clearly shown that Jesus returns in fire and final judgement, dissolving this earth by fire (The End)

(Quote Timtofly, Post #1548)

"so stop pretending Jesus does not come and rule on the earth at the Second Coming."

 

[Truth7t7]

Actually it exceeds 1,000 years but you are on the right track. "The last day" is a metaphor for a very long period of time. But for God and Christ it is equivalent to a day (more or less).

Just Like The Last Day Judgement Is A Metaphor Seen Below, "Wrong" Last Day Means Just That (Last Day) No More To Follow

It appears you desire to change the simple meaning of scripture, to appease your teachings and beliefs

(THE LAST DAY JUDGEMENT)

John 12:48KJV
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

(The Last Day)

Revelation 10:5-7KJV
5 And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven,
6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:
7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

 

[Truth7t7]

That "Last Day" has a start and a finish. It is also 1,000 years in length. Some events happen at the start, some during, and some after the end.

The "Last Day" is just that, no more days following

You think you can sell ice to Eskimos, big smiles!

 

[The Light]

Revelation 4 shows no such thing as a rapture taking place,

Revelation 4 shows 24 elders in heaven with their reward crowns proving that Jesus has returned with His promised rewards. Revelation 5 shows the kings and priests in heaven which is what is promised the Church in Revelation 1. You can read past these FACTS all you want, which is why you are blind to the truth.

1 Corinthians 15:51-54 clearly teaches the "Catching Up" takes place at the Lords return, (Then Cometh The End) 1 Corinthians 15:23-24

Right. Jesus comes at the 6th seal and gathers the elect from heaven and earth and then the wrath of God begins.

It's your human imagination, human logic, and assumptions, that believes and teaches such

LOL. I only post scripture and believe what it says. That's why you never have the correct answer. You don't accept the written word God. The word says Satan is bound 1000 years and at the end of the thousand years he is loosed, but you don't believe it. It's why all of your arguments fail and why you are blind to the truth. It's hard to argue with what is written in the word.

There is one future coming of Jesus Christ, it's called by many "The Second Coming" as scripture clearly teaches, not a Third or Fourth

We see Jesus has returned and His reward was with Him with the 24 elders that have crowns. So He comes for His Church, and they are in heaven.
We see Jesus come before the Day of the Lord for the gathering from heaven and earth. That happens at the 6th seal.
We see Jesus comes for the 144,000 that are redeemed from the earth.
We see that Jesus comes with His armies from heaven at Armageddon.

You can deny these scriptural facts all you want.

(Read it real slow) "The Second Time"!

Hebrews 9:28KJV
28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Read it even slower.... and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time

Are you watching for Him as you are instructed to do, or are you waiting for the man of Sin to be revealed? Don't be a foolish virgin.

 

[The Light]

That is not what I said. It is Jesus who said that AFTER the tribulation of those days, these events would take place. And AFTER that He could come "with power and great glory". So draw your own conclusions.

Jesus comes at the 6th seal to gather the elect from heaven and earth BEFORE the day of the Lord. I don't have to draw my own conclusion. All I have to do is believe what is written.

 

[GISMYS_7]

1 Thess 4:15 Those that fight and reject the rapture are left behind!!!
The catching up of believers IS the rapture.
15 I can tell you this directly from the Lord: that we who are still living when the Lord returns will not rise to meet him ahead of those who are in their graves. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven with a mighty shout and with the soul-stirring cry of the archangel and the great trumpet-call of God. And the believers who are dead will be the first to rise to meet the Lord. 17 Then we who are still alive and remain on the earth """will be caught up""" with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air and remain with him forever. 18 So comfort and encourage each other with this news.===Caught up IS the rapture. After the years of the great tribulation Jesus will return to earth and bring the raptured believers with Him and defeat all evil and set up His eternal kingdom here on earth and God will have His home here for all eternity!. PTL

 

[Truth7t7]

Revelation 4 shows 24 elders in heaven with their reward crowns proving that Jesus has returned with His promised rewards. Revelation 5 shows the kings and priests in heaven which is what is promised the Church in Revelation 1. You can read past these FACTS all you want, which is why you are blind to the truth.


Right. Jesus comes at the 6th seal and gathers the elect from heaven and earth and then the wrath of God begins.

LOL. I only post scripture and believe what it says. That's why you never have the correct answer. You don't accept the written word God. The word says Satan is bound 1000 years and at the end of the thousand years he is loosed, but you don't believe it. It's why all of your arguments fail and why you are blind to the truth. It's hard to argue with what is written in the word.


We see Jesus has returned and His reward was with Him with the 24 elders that have crowns. So He comes for His Church, and they are in heaven.
We see Jesus come before the Day of the Lord for the gathering from heaven and earth. That happens at the 6th seal.
We see Jesus comes for the 144,000 that are redeemed from the earth.
We see that Jesus comes with His armies from heaven at Armageddon.

You can deny these scriptural facts all you want.

Read it even slower.... and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time

Are you watching for Him as you are instructed to do, or are you waiting for the man of Sin to be revealed? Don't be a foolish virgin.

We Disagree,

You have been clearly shown that Jesus will return a 2nd time in fire and final Judgement, there isn't 3 comings of Jesus Christ as you repeatedly claim