The problem with the thousand years?

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Timtofly

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Isn’t it amazing how we all have different views, I see it as being laid at Calvary.
Jesus Christ creator of the worlds.
The birth happened 33 years before that.

Besides the Lamb slain was before the foundation. You did not ask when the Lamb is slain, but the foundation laid. Jesus is the chief cornerstone of the church. The eternal olive tree. Jesus also spoke the foundation into a firm reality. He was not technically "the creation".

A foundation laid before a foundation created would be the church and the olive tree. If you accept the earth is flat, then the lowest foundation would be the Cross. I do accept the Cross happened before that first foundation in Genesis 1:1.
 

Timtofly

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Hi Mark. There's an idea that the flood is a type of the second coming, that the fit and able will be chosen to go through the final plagues etc but remain protected as was Noah, while the elderly and the inform will be taken to their rest beforehand as was Noah's immediate predecessors. It wouldn't have been an easy time even though they were in a large boat... Storms are never easy. And it won't be easy in the coming crisis either... God is merciful.
Noah built a very large ship at 500 years of age. How fit are we talking here? Adam could have been murdered. Either way, still dead.

Noah lived another 350 years and himself only made it to 950. But after the Flood God changed the conditions from 1000 year life spans to 120. Noah still exceded that 120 by another 230 years to live 350 years in the new condition.

Shem was the one who lived the longest, post Flood, 500 years after the Flood, with a total of 600 years. He founded Jerusalem and was Melchizedik. Living for so many generations that they had even forgotten about the Flood. It would be like one born 90 years before 1611, or just 80 years after the printing press, and still living today, to talk about the "good ole" days.
 

Timtofly

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The entire bible is written in "Parallel" teachings of same events, "Big Smiles"!

Hard to take you seriously, in love

Jesus Is The Lord
By different authors with different perspectives.

John was an eye witness to the whole Revelation. He never backtracked nor paralleled the events. Only private interpretation looks for excuses to avoid correction of error.

It was chronological because he kept advancing. He put in some side notes, but never told the same event in a parallel manner.

The only overlap was included in the event of the two witnesses. That way no one could just randomly stick them anywhere they pleased.

Not that that prevents humans from coming up with bizarre interpretations.
 

bbyrd009

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Hi Mark. There's an idea that the flood is a type of the second coming, that the fit and able will be chosen to go through the final plagues etc but remain protected as was Noah, while the elderly and the inform will be taken to their rest beforehand as was Noah's immediate predecessors. It wouldn't have been an easy time even though they were in a large boat... Storms are never easy. And it won't be easy in the coming crisis either... God is merciful.
the coming crisis, hmm...
been hearing about that since about 1968 lol, dunno
 

Truth7t7

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Isn’t it amazing how we all have different views, I see it as being laid at Calvary.
Jesus Christ creator of the worlds.
Colossians 1:16-17KJV
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
 
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Truth7t7

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By different authors with different perspectives.

John was an eye witness to the whole Revelation. He never backtracked nor paralleled the events. Only private interpretation looks for excuses to avoid correction of error.

It was chronological because he kept advancing. He put in some side notes, but never told the same event in a parallel manner.

The only overlap was included in the event of the two witnesses. That way no one could just randomly stick them anywhere they pleased.

Not that that prevents humans from coming up with bizarre interpretations.
The book of Revelation is parallel teachings in Isaiah, Psalms,Ezekiel, Jeremiah, and several other books ofthe bible, your claim is ignorant and unfounded, from the poster that states believers wont see a physical death, but are translated immediately into a glorified body upon death, real big smiles!

The book of Revelation is taught in parallel teachings of same events
 

Timtofly

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The book of Revelation is parallel teachings in Isaiah, Psalms,Ezekiel, Jeremiah, and several other books ofthe bible, your claim is ignorant and unfounded, from the poster that states believers wont see a physical death, but are translated immediately into a glorified body upon death, real big smiles!

The book of Revelation is taught in parallel teachings of same events
You do not accept the church is complete and glorified at the Second Coming? Have you missed 1 Thessalonians 4 and 1 Corinthians 15?

I said Revelation was not parallel in it's own body. Now you moved the point to include other prophecy of the same event?

Are you admitting Revelation is now chronological, but different than other prophecy?

I already said many books of the Bible offer parallel views with Revelation. I never claimed the lack of parallel Scripture point blank. The 4 Gospels are four views of the Revelation of Christ. They may or may not be chronological internally or as a group. So moving the point to the rest of the Bible is really covering your tracks to avoid the issue with Revelation itself.

Your accusations are begging the point. The alledged parallel view of Revelation to prove the chronological order of Revelation is wrong, and the parallel view is a proven fact, is a man made opinion, and not pointed out in any Scripture. And private opinion is not spiritual truth.
 

Zao is life

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This could go into so many different events or symbols of revelation which isn’t the purpose or the topic of this thread because it would never end but the mark on the forehead is symbolic of a constant unrepentant devotion to the beast and the mark on the hand is symbolic for doing the beast will.

A literal mark of the beast would violate the promise of salvation to whoever repents and believes in Jesus
Thanks, just wanted to know how you tied it in with Great Babylon being Jerusalem destroyed in AD 70. I.O.W what mark the Jews had received prior to AD 70. But your explanation (though I disagree with it) adds up with Great Babylon being Jerusalem in AD 70 (which I also don't find entirely plausible on the basis of the mark of the beast, the cities of the nations falling, and other parts of the Revelation which I don't see as already having taken place). But I just wanted my understanding of your view to be correct, which is why I asked (I wasn't debating your view in my questions).
 
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Brakelite

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the coming crisis, hmm...
been hearing about that since about 1968 lol, dunno
1000 years as a day. 6000 years since creation...1000 to the consummation of all things, the final 1000 being the Earth's Sabbath. The "last days" began at the time of Christ, the last 2 days of the working week before Sabbath.
 

Zao is life

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It’s just all so cryptic, and it’s so easy to have a myopic point of view.
It's as cryptic as we choose to make it. Being all mysterious doesn't necessarily help the cause. It's irritating to intelligent people, because it shows that the one doing it is trying to imply superior intelligence or knowledge. There may be a time and a place for it (somewhere) but a discussion board (any type of discussion board) is not one such time and place for it.
 
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Zao is life

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Nothing cryptic about the scripture as you claim, Jesus said nothing in secret, let alone being occultic

John 18:20KJV
20 Jesus answered him, I spake openly to the world; I ever taught in the synagogue, and in the temple, whither the Jews always resort; and in secret have I said nothing.


Merriam-Webster
Definition of cryptic


1: SECRET, OCCULT
2a: having or seeming to have a hidden or ambiguous meaning : MYSTERIOUS
Second time we agree.
 
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Zao is life

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You have been shown several times,satan is bound from only one specific purpose, deceiving the nations to the final battle

Satan isnt bound from evil in this world presently, nor in the future, simple,clear, easy to understand
The only way Satan is bound is in a very, very big way - he cannot appear in the heavenly courthouse before the Great Judge anymore to accuse the brethren, and has been cast down to the earth, where he remains as restricted as he always was before the cross.

If a king has a kingdom which belongs to the king only, and the king has full authority and power to do whatever he pleases in his kingdom, and an adversary in the kingdom is going about deceiving and wreaking havoc, then it means that the king is allowing it, and in order to put a stop to the activities of the adversary the king would need to either:

(a) Bind his adversary and lock him and all his army in a prison; or
(b) Destroy him.

If the king chooses to "allow for now" then the king still has the option of restricting the activities of the adversary, because the king still has sole authority and all the power to do as the king pleases.

Satan is either bound on this earth or he is not, just as much as Satan is either already destroyed in the LoF, or he is not. You can't have it both ways. All your statements in this regard prove nothing except that Satan is neither destroyed nor bound on this earth, but restricted to an extent that is no more or less than he was always restricted from his activities in this world before the cross.

Personally, I believe God allows only in order that He give humans with free will an opportunity to prove whether they are of His sheep or not. John 10:25-30 "Jesus answered them, I told you and you did not believe. The works that I do in My Father's name, they bear witness of Me. But you did not believe because you are not of My sheep. As I said to you, My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give to them eternal life, and they shall never ever perish, and not anyone shall pluck them out of My hand. My Father who gave them to me is greater than all, and no one is able to pluck them out of My Father's hand. I and the Father are one!"
 

Zao is life

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This is what I believe

Daniel spoke of a future to his time AOD and Antiochus fulfilled it

Jesus prophesied of a future to his time AOD and the Romans fulfilled it

Revelation is the revelation of Jesus as in who He is and what He did. He is God and He ushered in the new covenant.

Revelation is a transition from the old covenant age to the new covenant age from the earthly Jerusalem to the heavenly Jerusalem.

That is the purpose of revelation it’s what Jesus did and the ultimate ending of the bible.

If revelation was written after the destruction of Jerusalem don’t you think that the bible would mention it as it was Jesus prediction with a date to it ? Especially since the New Testament is full of Jesus fulfilled prophecies
IMO aside from the dispute over the dating of the Revelation, the only problem with that view of the Revelation is that there are many problems with it (pun intended), not only in the Revelation, but in certain statements in the epistles too. It is also notable that those who hold a Preterist or Partial Preterist view, are those who hold to an earlier date for the writing of the Revelation, whereas those who hold to a futurist view, to the later date. It proves that humans (even Christians) will find "proof" to support whatever we believe, whether true or not. So even though the subject of the date of the penning of the Revelation naturally crept into the discussion, the insistence on the earlier date for John's penning of the Revelation does nothing to support anything else you are saying.

There are some aspects of what you say that are true, though. One thing I've realized is that when it comes to prophecy, every individual Christian (including myself) is 100% correct with regard to some things, and completely wrong in others.
 

Truth7t7

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The only way Satan is bound is in a very, very big way - he cannot appear in the heavenly courthouse before the Great Judge anymore to accuse the brethren, and has been cast down to the earth, where he remains as restricted as he always was before the cross.

If a king has a kingdom which belongs to the king only, and the king has full authority and power to do whatever he pleases in his kingdom, and an adversary in the kingdom is going about deceiving and wreaking havoc, then it means that the king is allowing it, and in order to put a stop to the activities of the adversary the king would need to either:

(a) Bind his adversary and lock him and all his army in a prison; or
(b) Destroy him.

If the king chooses to "allow for now" then the king still has the option of restricting the activities of the adversary, because the king still has sole authority and all the power to do as the king pleases.

Satan is either bound on this earth or he is not, just as much as Satan is either already destroyed in the LoF, or he is not. You can't have it both ways. All your statements in this regard prove nothing except that Satan is neither destroyed nor bound on this earth, but restricted to an extent that is no more or less than he was always restricted from his activities in this world before the cross.

Personally, I believe God allows only in order that He give humans with free will an opportunity to prove whether they are of His sheep or not. John 10:25-30 "Jesus answered them, I told you and you did not believe. The works that I do in My Father's name, they bear witness of Me. But you did not believe because you are not of My sheep. As I said to you, My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give to them eternal life, and they shall never ever perish, and not anyone shall pluck them out of My hand. My Father who gave them to me is greater than all, and no one is able to pluck them out of My Father's hand. I and the Father are one!"
We Disagree, Satan is currently bound from (Deceiving The Nations) To Battle, As Revelation 20:7-8 clearly defines this

Satan is not bound from general evil in the world presently
 

Marty fox

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Thanks, just wanted to know how you tied it in with Great Babylon being Jerusalem destroyed in AD 70. I.O.W what mark the Jews had received prior to AD 70. But your explanation (though I disagree with it) adds up with Great Babylon being Jerusalem in AD 70 (which I also don't find entirely plausible on the basis of the mark of the beast, the cities of the nations falling, and other parts of the Revelation which I don't see as already having taken place). But I just wanted my understanding of your view to be correct, which is why I asked (I wasn't debating your view in my questions).

The Jews took part in the mark when they said that they have no king but Cesar and they did the beast will by handing their messiah over to Rome to crucify.
 
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Marty fox

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IMO aside from the dispute over the dating of the Revelation, the only problem with that view of the Revelation is that there are many problems with it (pun intended), not only in the Revelation, but in certain statements in the epistles too. It is also notable that those who hold a Preterist or Partial Preterist view, are those who hold to an earlier date for the writing of the Revelation, whereas those who hold to a futurist view, to the later date. It proves that humans (even Christians) will find "proof" to support whatever we believe, whether true or not. So even though the subject of the date of the penning of the Revelation naturally crept into the discussion, the insistence on the earlier date for John's penning of the Revelation does nothing to support anything else you are saying.

There are some aspects of what you say that are true, though. One thing I've realized is that when it comes to prophecy, every individual Christian (including myself) is 100% correct with regard to some things, and completely wrong in others.

John’s early penning of revelation would support my view fully

For example the beast destroys Babylon the great for Gods purpose and Rome destroyed Jerusalem for Gods purpose
 

Truth7t7

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John’s early penning of revelation would support my view fully

For example the beast destroys Babylon the great for Gods purpose and Rome destroyed Jerusalem for Gods purpose
The 70AD Roman Destruction Of Jerusalem Has No Relevance To The Revelation, That Was Written Decades After The Destruction

When Was the Book of Revelation Written?
By Wayne Jackson

Traditionally, the book of Revelation has been dated near the end of the first century, around A.D. 96. Some writers, however, have advanced the preterist (from a Latin word meaning “that which is past”) view, contending that the Apocalypse was penned around A.D. 68 or 69, and thus the thrust of the book is supposed to relate to the impending destruction of Jerusalem (A.D. 70).

A few prominent names have been associated with this position (e.g., Stuart, Schaff, Lightfoot, Foy E. Wallace Jr.), and for a brief time it was popular with certain scholars. James Orr has observed, however, that recent criticism has reverted to the traditional date of near A.D. 96 (1939, 2584). In fact, the evidence for the later date is extremely strong.

In view of some of the bizarre theories that have surfaced in recent times (e.g., the notion that all end-time prophecies were fulfilled with the fall of Jerusalem in A.D. 70), which are dependent upon the preterist interpretation, we offer the following.

External Evidence
The external evidence for the late dating of Revelation is of the highest quality.

Irenaeus
Irenaeus (A.D. 180), a student of Polycarp (who was a disciple of the apostle John), wrote that the apocalyptic vision “was seen not very long ago, almost in our own generation, at the close of the reign of Domitian” (Against Heresies 30). The testimony of Irenaeus, not far removed from the apostolic age, is first rate. He places the book near the end of Domitian’s reign, and that ruler died in A.D. 96. Irenaeus seems to be unaware of any other view for the date of the book of Revelation.

Clement of Alexandria
Clement of Alexandria (A.D. 155-215) says that John returned from the isle of Patmos “after the tyrant was dead” (Who Is the Rich Man? 42), and Eusebius, known as the “Father of Church History,” identifies the “tyrant” as Domitian (Ecclesiastical History III.23).

Even Moses Stuart, America’s most prominent preterist, admitted that the “tyrant here meant is probably Domitian.” Within this narrative, Clement further speaks of John as an “old man.” If Revelation was written prior to A.D. 70, it would scarcely seem appropriate to refer to John as an old man, since he would only have been in his early sixties at this time.

Victorinus
Victorinus (late third century), author of the earliest commentary on the book of Revelation, wrote:

When John said these things, he was in the island of Patmos, condemned to the mines by Caesar Domitian. There he saw the Apocalypse; and when at length grown old, he thought that he should receive his release by suffering; but Domitian being killed, he was liberated (Commentary on Revelation 10:11).

Jerome
Jerome (A.D. 340-420) said,

In the fourteenth then after Nero, Domitian having raised up a second persecution, he [John] was banished to the island of Patmos, and wrote the Apocalypse (Lives of Illustrious Men 9).

To all of this may be added the comment of Eusebius, who contends that the historical tradition of his time (A.D. 324) placed the writing of the Apocalypse at the close of Domitian’s reign (III.18). McClintock and Strong, in contending for the later date, declare that “there is no mention in any writer of the first three centuries of any other time or place” (1969, 1064). Upon the basis of external evidence, therefore, there is little contest between the earlier and later dates.

Internal Evidence
The contents of the book of Revelation also suggest a late date, as the following observations indicate.

The spiritual conditions of the churches described in Revelation chapters two and three more readily harmonize with the late date.

The church in Ephesus, for instance, was not founded by Paul until the latter part of Claudius’s reign: and when he wrote to them from Rome, A.D. 61, instead of reproving them for any want of love, he commends their love and faith (Eph. 1:15) (Horne 1841, 382).

Yet, when Revelation was written, in spite of the fact that the Ephesians had been patient (2:2), they had also left their first love (v. 4), and this would seem to require a greater length of time than seven or eight years, as suggested by the early date.

Another internal evidence of a late date is that this book was penned while John was banished to Patmos (1:9). It is well known that Domitian had a fondness for this type of persecution. If, however, this persecution is dated in the time of Nero, how does one account for the fact that Peter and Paul are murdered, yet John is only exiled to an island? (Eusebius III.18; II.25).

Then consider this fact. The church at Laodicea is represented as existing under conditions of great wealth. She was rich and had need of nothing (3:17). In A.D. 60, though, Laodicea had been almost entirely destroyed by an earthquake. Surely it would have required more than eight or nine years for that city to have risen again to the state of affluence described in Revelation.

The doctrinal departures described in Revelation would appear to better fit the later dating. For example, the Nicolaitans (2:6, 15) were a full-fledged sect at the time of John’s writing, whereas they had only been hinted at in general terms in 2 Peter and Jude, which were written possibly around A.D. 65-66.

Persecution for professing the Christian faith is evidenced in those early letters to the seven churches of Asia Minor. For instance, Antipas had been killed in Pergamum (2:13). It is generally agreed among scholars, however, that Nero’s persecution was mostly confined to Rome; further, it was not for religious reasons (Harrison 1964, 446).
 

Zao is life

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John’s early penning of revelation would support my view fully

For example the beast destroys Babylon the great for Gods purpose and Rome destroyed Jerusalem for Gods purpose
So now I will see how you will answer my protest that Babylon the Great is destroyed by the (ten horns of the) beast, and the beast is taken and then destroyed by Christ in the LoF. Unless you want to do a cut 'n paste job and place thousands of years between the one and the other (the way many people do with Daniel 9:27b), it doesn't fit.
 
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