The Qualification for Holiness

[WaterSong]

Are you a person who does not believe in a literal Hell?
Jesus believes in it, and taught about Hell a lot.
So, this "hades", "sheol", issue, ......is generally related to people who don't believe in a literal "Hell".
There is also the false teaching that these words are referring to a "city dump" just outside the Jerusalem Eastern Gate.
Thx for not also posting that nonsense.

And the verse, you listed.....is a great verse, but its a tragic situation.
This verse describes the damnation that exists as eternity, already, for all Christ Rejectors.
All Christ rejectors....(unbelievers) are currently that Verse......they are damned to Hell, then to the Lake of Fire, while they are currently on earth texting, and working, and having fun.

No, actually I'm a person who believes in what is written about Sheol. Which is in the Old Testament, that foundation for the new.

Why do you avoid the question I posed just to now make your remarks about me as you cut most of my reply in order to avoid the question I posed.
"Are you a person ...."

 

[Behold]

No, actually I'm a person who believes in what is written about Sheol. Which is in the Old Testament, that foundation for the new.
"

The foundation for the New Testament is not the Old Testament.
The foundation for the New Testament is the BLOOD OF JESUS, that IS the New Testament, and NEW Covenant that REPLACED the OLD< where you seem to live, Watersong.

Understand... God "found fault with the Old Covenant", (that is the Old Testament) and gave us a NEW TESTAMENT.
You dont understand this yet, ??????????? and that is why you are living in the Old Testament, completely confused about the NEW.

Also, i asked you if you believe in a Literal Hell.
That is a "yes or no" question.
You said that you live in the Old Testament, .....that is your answer, and i agree that you do, regarding your understanding of why the NT is here and why Hell exists.
Its because you live in the Old Covenant, you must have missed where Jesus speaks of HELL in the NEW TESTAMENT, more then He taught on Heaven.

 

[WaterSong]

The foundation for the New Testament is not the Old Testament.
The foundation for the New Testament is the BLOOD OF JESUS, that IS the New Testament, and NEW Covenant that REPLACED the OLD< where you seem to live, Watersong.

You've missed out on a great deal trusting your church to teach you what they wish you to believe.
You're not aware that Jesus figures prominently in the old testament.
This is why the Jews awaited their Messiah in the New. And why the temple elders in the New refused to acknowledge, as many do today, that Jesus, Immanuel="God with us", was the prophesied, prophesied from the OT, arrived.

Understand... God "found fault with the Old Covenant", (that is the Old Testament) and gave us a NEW TESTAMENT.
You dont understand this yet, ??????????? and that is why you are living in the Old Testament, completely confused about the NEW.

Oh, that pesky old testament you give no credence for relation to the new? Yes, God said it grieved him to his heart that he'd made man. Genesis 6.
That's why he drowned the whole world save for Noah and his family. That God would begin to populate the world again with....man.

God tells us of our beginning in Genesis. And you're led to believe God found fault with all that transpired in the Old wherein he was Lord?
Then you are led to believe God does change. And God makes mistakes? That's not scripture.
Numbers 23:19
God is not man, that he should lie, or a son of man, that he should change his mind. Has he said, and will he not do it? Or has he spoken, and will he not fulfill it?
1 Samuel 15:29
..."And also the Glory of Israel will not lie or have regret, for he is not a man, that he should have regret.”
Hebrews 13:8
"Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever."

Also, i asked you if you believe in a Literal Hell.
That is a "yes or no" question.

You still ignore the first question I asked you. Why is that? Asking a question to a question is not honest. And I asked you first.

You said that you live in the Old Testament,

Those are your words. I never ever not once said that.

.....that is your answer, and i agree that you do, regarding your understanding of why the NT is here and why Hell exists.
Its because you live in the Old Covenant, you must have missed where Jesus speaks of HELL in the NEW TESTAMENT, more then He taught on Heaven.

Your propensity for the illeism is illuminating.
Are you able to have an honest exchange? Or are you going to continue to proceed as you have thus far? Avoidance, fallacy, illeism.
If so, we shall conclude our exchange here.

Let me know.

 

[Enoch111]

Micah 6:8 give us the basic ingredients in perfection, “Holiness”.

Micah 6:8 is speaking about righteousness, not holiness. Holiness is only possible when the Holy Spirit indwells the believer. That is when a sinner is declared to be a saint -- a sanctified one. Holiness has two aspects: (1) being set apart from sin, and (2) walking in the Spirit.

 

[Behold]

You've missed out on a great deal trusting your church to teach you what they wish you to believe.
You're not aware that Jesus figures prominently in the old testament.
This is why the Jews awaited their Messiah in the New. And why the temple elders in the New refused to acknowledge, as many do today, that Jesus, Immanuel="God with us", was the prophesied, prophesied from the OT, arrived.


Can you be honest?
Then accept that the Old Testament has been Replaced by the NEW.
Those are your words. I never ever not once said that.
Your propensity for the illeism is illuminating.
Are you able to have an honest exchange? Or are you going to continue to proceed as you have thus far? Avoidance, fallacy, illeism.
If so, we shall conclude our exchange here.

Can you be honest?

Listen,
that Jesus is prophesied in the OLD< is true, but..... that He is God manifested in the Flesh in the NEW TESTAMENT, is my point of View.
Im called to Rreach and Teach, and Not the OLD TESTAMENT, unless its a class on the OT.
Are you following me?
If you can't match that, then how can we relate and agree?

I dont live in the Old Testament.
I dont need to read the prophesies of the coming Messiah.
I have Him IN ME.

Also, im not certain what you mean by "Your Church", as i am the Church.
The Church is not a domination, and there are no denominations found in Heaven.
There is the Body of Christ, and im that.....

So, one more thing..
I dont correct the Bible with the Koine Greek.
And neither does God.
How do you know?
Because God, in His "foreknowledge", understood that ENGLISH was going to be the universal language that is spoken in every country, that is learned in every country, and not KOINE GREEK.
Got that?
He knew that "koine greek" was going to sit and remain specifically cultural to a specific area, and it still does., while ENGLISH was going to be "world wide".
So that is why we in the world, worldwide, prefer and refer to the ENGLISH Translations.
That is God's idea.

Find me there.

 

[WaterSong]

Can you be honest?

I have been. It is you that take that other road.
I won't be continuing this further. You are dishonest and purposefully so. I find that deplorable. I have never said I live in the old testament. That is your imaginations conjuration intending to dismiss my point of view. It does not reflect poorly on me but upon the author of such machinations.

So no, I won't "Listen,", when you are not able to show respect but instead resort to fallen tactics thinking you'll get your point across in that way. I've found you quite enough and it is repellent to the words and leading's of my Lord.

Listen,
that Jesus is prophesied in the OLD< is true, but..... that He is God manifested in the Flesh in the NEW TESTAMENT, is my point of View.
Im called to Rreach and Teach, and Not the OLD TESTAMENT, unless its a class on the OT.
Are you following me?
If you can't match that, then how can we relate and agree?

I dont live in the Old Testament.
I dont need to read the prophesies of the coming Messiah.
I have Him IN ME.

Also, im not certain what you mean by "Your Church", as i am the Church.
The Church is not a domination, and there are no denominations found in Heaven.
I wrote a Thread here 3 Months ago, that was "dismissed"..... that was titled......"there are no Catholics in Heaven".
And this Thread was not an attack on a "certain church" as i was falsely accused, but rather it was just using the name of an earthly denomination, as the title of my Thread. And in the Threads first paragraph i listed about 20 Denominations, all PROTESTANT mainline, as also not being in heaven.
So, that was not an "attack" that was a FACT, and this Thread was yanked.

So, one more thing..
I dont correct the Bible with the Koine Greek.
And neither does God.
How do you know?
Because God, in His "foreknowledge", understood that ENGLISH was going to be the universal language that is spoken in every country, that is learned in every country, and not KOINE GREEK.
Got that?
He knew that "koine greek" was going to sit and remain specifically cultural to a specific area, and it still does., while ENGLISH was going to be "world wide".
So that is why we in the world, worldwide, prefer and refer to the ENGLISH Translations.
That is God's idea.

Find me there.

 

[amadeus]

Why do you care so much about the ideas that others have about you?

The Spirit versus the flesh. God versus mammon.

"Wisdom hath builded her house, she hath hewn out her seven pillars:
She hath killed her beasts; she hath mingled her wine; she hath also furnished her table." Prov 9:1-2

The overcoming is progressing. The beasts are first cleansed and finally killed.

 

[Heart2Soul]

I have discussed this issue with many people numerous times over the years. I could, if if were inclined argue for the other side, [your side] using scriptures as well but that would be dishonest on my part because of where my faith is... where I am with God. The Bible can be used to support any argument, but when God is really involved in a person through the Holy Ghost we should be not be traveling down the pathway of simply trying to convince people that 'I already have it and/or I am already right and they are wrong'. Rather we should be trying to understand and to grow closer to Him.

Am I already saved to the point that I will never backslide... that I will never look back with hunger for those wrong things in which I have been into before? Perhaps! I have a good idea of where I am, but I won't reveal even much of that except as God directs me to do so.

What upset me was that you spoke as if I had been traveling down a wrong road all of the way all of these years as if I had no real faith in God now... yet I know that God is really first in my life, in my heart today before anything and anyone...

I, like everyone else, I believe, have taken more than one wrong turn since I began to serve God. If we have read about David the shepherd boy... become King of Israel, we recall that he certainly took more than one wrong turn... but in his heart something was right that God always took into consideration. David went through things and grew. I take the contrast between King David and his predecessor, King Saul as my example of the two ways a person who is anointed of God may go today. When we, with the Holy Spirit in us, choose too often the way of Saul, we will reap effectively the final reward seen in the scripture for Saul. Who is able to see a 'Saul' among us without a special personal revelation from God. As to seeing one who is already an overcomer as Jesus was an overcomer, who but one given the eyes to see it from God could see it?


I have no difficulty with this. On the contrary, I give God the glory for your direction and purpose.



I study and look up some word meanings, but I do not use the conclusions found in my references, however good they may seem to be, as my conclusions out of hand. Really as I have said many times on this forum, I strive each day in my personal time with God to start always at the 'lowest room' emptying myself as much as possible of every preconceived idea I have about God and the things of God. Then I strive to leave it to Him to elevate me if He warrants that elevation is needed.

"When thou art bidden of any man to a wedding, sit not down in the highest room; lest a more honourable man than thou be bidden of him;
And he that bade thee and him come and say to thee, Give this man place; and thou begin with shame to take the lowest room.
But when thou art bidden, go and sit down in the lowest room; that when he that bade thee cometh, he may say unto thee, Friend, go up higher: then shalt thou have worship in the presence of them that sit at meat with thee.
For whosoever exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted." Luke 14:8-11

Many times over the years that I have been going to the lowest room when I left I could not see a definite difference in what I believed from what I had believed prior to entering in... but sometimes I did change immediately and sometimes it came much later. This is why you will often here me speak of effectively no or few ATs [Absolute Truths]. It is why even though I do not personally embrace it, I do completely disregard your view or those of many others which seemingly are opposed to my own. I am climbing the hill, the slippery or talus slope. I want to always continue to gain ground.

You like your plateau as do many other standing perhaps on different plateaus. God is at the top. As an unclean beast at the very lowest level of the ark, I may be saved from the drowning killing flood outside, but what happens when He opens the Door for me to come out? Consider what happened to Canaan the son of Ham! Was not Ham one of the 8 human beings saved in the Ark?

If we all had to be experts in the meanings of all the words in the original written languages of scripture to be right in the eyes of God, a lot of people would be lost and without hope, wouldn't they?


Communication is very often a problem for people who really are serving God, communication between brothers in the Lord. Again with your explanation about the meanings of "perfect" you have part of your understanding, but you still fail to understand where I am on the whole picture, the whole vision that I have from God. Perfect clarity? Certainly not and I would be surprised if you said that your vision was perfect or flawless or contained no room for improvement or growth...

"And he took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the town; and when he had spit on his eyes, and put his hands upon him, he asked him if he saw ought.
And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking.
After that he put his hands again upon his eyes, and made him look up: and he was restored, and saw every man clearly." Mark 8:23-25

That man had two touches of the hand of Jesus. How many have we had? How many do we need?

Forgive me old friend for being sharp and critical against you on this thing. I am still flesh and I still get tired and when I have walked for even short periods of time on my own instead of in His Spirit, sometimes the result comes right out of my mouth or into my fingers as I type. May God richly bless you as you walk with Him!

Guess you had a lot to say...lol. a rather lengthy post.

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

The Spirit versus the flesh. God versus mammon.

"Wisdom hath builded her house, she hath hewn out her seven pillars:
She hath killed her beasts; she hath mingled her wine; she hath also furnished her table." Prov 9:1-2

The overcoming is progressing. The beasts are first cleansed and finally killed.

Really? You still struggle with the flesh, the Sinful Nature? You mean, Jesus hasn't Circumcised your Heart?

 

[amadeus]

Guess you had a lot to say...lol. a rather lengthy post.

Too long or...? In any case...Give God the glory!

 

[amadeus]

Really? You still struggle with the flesh, the Sinful Nature? You mean, Jesus hasn't Circumcised your Heart?

Is the old man dead?
Who is still in the world?

"And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are." John 17:11

 

[101G]

There has not been much I've agreed with you on over the last year or so, this post I agree with...
I agree humility and a contrite heart is the approach to perfection in the Kingdom, whether one is of the OT or in the NT, in Christ. Both can be counted as righteous according to God. It is a great subject.

There is just one thing I would like to add on this subject. Coming to Christ for the first time or as Job revealed his faithfulness to God for the first time in his life, both were counted as genuinely righteous. They came to the Father as children indeed. As children grow however with knowing the roles and the love of their parents for the first time, they learn to become bolder and confident in asking for things and showing who they are as an individual. This is not to negate they have lost their initial humility and state of innocent spirit that first had when they were first conscious of their love for their parents. I at least know that I have this same humility and respect for Christ and the Father when I come to them, again and again. I just see it as they know me more and know that my heart is genuine in truth and my approach is in deep respect and humility...this I will never lose as I grow and mature..

Bless you,

APAK

In the Name of the Lord Jesus thank you. my mother told me this before she had passed on many a years ago, "no matter how old you get, I'm always your Mother".... (smile). and as a child my parents instilled in me things that I have never departed from. I have a 90 plus year old neighbor, whom I see from time to time when I'm in my old home town and neighborhood, who as a child I grew up under, even I'm nearing my 70's I still address her as Mrs. and as a matter of fact, anyone who is older than me I still address as Mr. or Mrs.

so the proverb is correct, 22:6. and if we all have this same mind set that was in Christ Jesus, (Phil 2:5), one can walk humnbly with thy God, even when we grown up.

amen, you be blessed too.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[101G]

Do you really believe that any external physical problem we may encounter is going to remove any of us who sincerely love God out of His reach?

AMEN, CORRECT. Hebrews 6:9 "But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak."

Hebrews 6:10 "For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister."

and to put the icing on the cake,

Hebrews 6:11 "And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:"

Hebrews 6:12 "That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises."

I made the Letters a little big Just for you.....

take care my Friend.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[amadeus]

AMEN, CORRECT. Hebrews 6:9 "But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak."

Hebrews 6:10 "For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister."

and to put the icing on the cake,

Hebrews 6:11 "And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:"

Hebrews 6:12 "That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises."

I made the Letters a little big Just for you.....

take care my Friend.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

Thank you! Give God the glory!

 

[101G]

Now, our sister, Rahab, "Saint", or "Sinner"......... "Saint". Canaanite, or israelite ....... israelite. Gentile, or Jew ...... Jew.
there has bee a lot said about this woman, and 90% of it before, was incorrect. after many re-reading on this woman, and countless hours of research, I will categorize this woman in this classification, "A Child of God". I first notice from her, the devotion in God. Joshua 2:11 "And as soon as we had heard these things, our hearts did melt, neither did there remain any more courage in any man, because of you: for the LORD your God, he is God in heaven above, and in earth beneath." Joshua 2:12 "Now therefore, I pray you, swear unto me by the LORD, since I have shewed you kindness, that ye will also shew kindness unto my father's house, and give me a true token:"

a few takeways here. A. this woman declared, "for the LORD your God, he is God in heaven above, and in earth beneath."
B. She prayed, "Now therefore, I pray you,"

and here's the big takeaway, C. "since I have shewed you kindness, that ye will also shew kindness unto my father's house"
Kindness? yes, Kindness, which is the Hebrew word,
H2617 חֵסֵד checed (cheh'-sed) n-m.
1. kindness.
2. (by implication, towards God) piety.
3. (by opposition, rarely) reproof.
4. (subjectively) beauty.
[from H2616]
KJV: favour, good deed(-liness, -ness), kindly, (loving-)kindness, merciful (kindness), mercy, pity, reproach, wicked thing.
Root(s): H2616

MERCY? what did Micah 6:8 say, "He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?" BINGO. oh the treasure of God's holy word.

What did God by the prophet say, "He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee". MERCY.

I tell you, @amadeus, my friend, your Amen in the beginning, has open up this topic, for I'm finding more Jewels in the Lord's treasure chest of his Goodness. again I thank God for you.

may we all be blessed. I tell you, when you open your bible, you open God's treasure chest. more on this woman to come.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

Is the old man dead?
Who is still in the world?

"And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are." John 17:11

Okie Doke.

 

[Behold]

I have been. It is you that take that other road.
I won't be continuing this further. You are dishonest and purposefully so. I find that deplorable. I have never said I live in the old testament. That is your imaginations conjuration intending to dismiss my point of view. It does not reflect poorly on me but upon the author of such machinations.
So no, I won't "Listen,", when you are not able to show respect but instead resort to fallen tactics thinking you'll get your point across in that way. I've found you quite enough and it is repellent to the words and leading's of my Lord.

Give respect, and you'll often receive it, watersong.
Oherwise, you'll end up where you are found... now....demanding what you have not given.
So, there you go.
That's how that worked out for you.

Here is something else..... i asked you if you believe in a literal hell, and the silence is deafening, regarding your missing answer..
Did you ever answer this question?
Would you like to go back and edit your post so that it appears that you answered it?
I'll be back tomorrow, and i'll look for your answer..

Now, here is another question for you.

Why does the blood of Jesus that saved all the born again, keep them saved, no matter what?

Why is that, WaterSong?

 

[Behold]

Foundation Scriptures:
NT: 1 Peter 1:14 "As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:"
1 Peter 1:15 "But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;"
1 Peter 1:16 "Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy."

The Qualification for Holiness?
What is that?

Faith.

"all that believe on the Lord, shall be SAVED".

So, there is the Qualification for Holiness. Its that you "believe on the ONE whom God Sent".
If you do that, you are QUALIFIED to receive the only Holiness that Exists, which is, God's.
So, God Qualifies you to receive "the Gift of Righteousness", and this once delivered to us as "justification by faith", causes us to become HOLY, or as "the righteousness of God, In Christ".

The qualification for that Holiness.. (the Gift of Righteousness) - is that you BELIEVE on Jesus.

 

[101G]

The Qualification for Holiness?
What is that?

Faith.

"all that believe on the Lord, shall be SAVED".

so how do you get FAITH? and how do you believe?

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

so how do you get FAITH? and how do you believe?

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

Colossians 2:9-15