Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
He obviously was just making it up that there were ECFs who believed in a pre-trib rapture. I can't believe how dishonest these pre-tribs are.
The Rapture and the Tribulation - Short
- Thread starter KUWN
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Truth7t7
Well-Known Member
- Jan 2, 2014
- 12,155
- 3,826
- 113
- Faith
- Christian
- Country
- United States
Pseudo-Ephraem was translated into English at Tyndale Seminary In Texas by Cameron Rhoades, it was done at the request of David Cloud and the late Grant Jeffrey for his book, the three mentioned are all biased pre-trib advocates being big names in this community
Tyndale Seminary is the size of a house in (Hurst Texas) and unaccredited in theological studies, Cameron Rhoades English that you quote is a biased "Farce"
When Was the Pre-Tribulation Rapture First Taught?
January 31, 2024 (first published November 6, 2014)
David Cloud, Way of Life Literature, P.O. Box 610368, Port Huron, MI 48061
In the 1990s some of Ephraem’s writings were translated into English for the first time, one of these being On the Last Times, the Antichrist, and the End of the World, A.D. 373.
The translation was done by Professor Cameron Rhoades of Tyndale Theological Seminary at the bequest of Grant R. Jeffrey. It was subsequently published in Jeffrey’s 1995 book Final Warning.
Tyndall Seminary Hurst Texas Below
701 W Pipeline Rd, Hurst, TX 76053
Last edited:
Truth7t7
Well-Known Member
- Jan 2, 2014
- 12,155
- 3,826
- 113
- Faith
- Christian
- Country
- United States
Not one word you provide teaches of Darby's pre-trib rapture, you use the word "Escape" and try desperately to turn this into your pre-trib rapture, keep looking its found no place in scripture
Truth7t7
Well-Known Member
- Jan 2, 2014
- 12,155
- 3,826
- 113
- Faith
- Christian
- Country
- United States
Yes I also believe dishonesty is in play, humans will go to great lengths trying to be right, man's pride in stubborn rebellion
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
Right. There was nothing in any of that text that said anything about anyone being taken off of the earth to avoid tribulation, but instead it talked about being protected while still on the earth. Pre-tribs apparently think we need to be escorted off of the earth whenever trouble comes and that God isn't capable of protecting us any other way.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
Right. That quote talks about escaping tribulation and then after that spending "the rest of your life in serving the Lord blamelessly". So, he clearly was talking about being protected and enduring tribulation while on the earth and, once getting through it and enduring it, then serving the Lord the rest of your life after that. Nothing to do with a pre-trib rapture whatsoever.
Davy
Well-Known Member
It is amazing... how those fooled by men's false pre-trib rapture theory try to cite all kinds of early historical proof of it being preached in the Church when Lord Jesus Christ Himself showed that His coming to gather His saints will be AFTER... the tribulation, as written in Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27.
Even the 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 Scripture which those on man's pre-trib rapture theory try to interpret means Christ rapturing the Church prior to the tribulation actually instead reveals the time of Christ's coming is timed with when the future resurrection happens...
1 Thess 4:14-16
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with Him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
KJV
That phrase in red is a direct reference to the future resurrection. And in John 6:40, Jesus proclaimed that He will raise up His saints on the LAST DAY. That means AFTER the "great tribulation", not prior to it.
Thus the pre-trib rapture theory doctors even depend on their congregations NOT studying their Bible to grasp that above, but just believe those doctor's LIES, because I can about guarantee, not all of those pre-trib rapture doctors are deceived about the LIE they are pushing. God makes this point too, because in Ezekiel 13 He is rebuking those pre-trib preachers.
Even the 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 Scripture which those on man's pre-trib rapture theory try to interpret means Christ rapturing the Church prior to the tribulation actually instead reveals the time of Christ's coming is timed with when the future resurrection happens...
1 Thess 4:14-16
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with Him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
KJV
That phrase in red is a direct reference to the future resurrection. And in John 6:40, Jesus proclaimed that He will raise up His saints on the LAST DAY. That means AFTER the "great tribulation", not prior to it.
Thus the pre-trib rapture theory doctors even depend on their congregations NOT studying their Bible to grasp that above, but just believe those doctor's LIES, because I can about guarantee, not all of those pre-trib rapture doctors are deceived about the LIE they are pushing. God makes this point too, because in Ezekiel 13 He is rebuking those pre-trib preachers.
Yes, the last Day of this world is the resurrection
Spoken of many times
John 11:24
Martha said to Him, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day.”
As is the judgment day.
John 12:48
He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him— the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.
2 Timothy 4
I charge you [a]therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead [b]at His appearing and His kingdom: 2 Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching. 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; 4 and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables. 5 But you be watchful in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.
Spoken of many times
John 11:24
Martha said to Him, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day.”
As is the judgment day.
John 12:48
He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him— the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.
2 Timothy 4
I charge you [a]therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead [b]at His appearing and His kingdom: 2 Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching. 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; 4 and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables. 5 But you be watchful in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.
And if you can receive it, that judgment day is of the living and the dead after the resurrection and includes the great white throne judgment
And after the Day of judgment, we get the new earth and new heavens.
And after the Day of judgment, we get the new earth and new heavens.
Rev 20
11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before [c]God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.
13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second [d]death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.
11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before [c]God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.
13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second [d]death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
Now you and all the anti Darby obsessed followers can learn your deal is a lie, and has been for years.
It is you that invokes Darby and imagines you are actually addressing anything.
You are indirectly saying you base your erroneous doctrine on dead ancients.
You are basing YOUR ENTIRE ERRONEOUS doctrine on dead men.
It is even worse than that as you AUTHENTICATE your error, via dead men ,while unbelievably ascribing error to other dead men that you know nothing of.
I just laugh at that irony of ironies.
" My dead men , are superior to your dead me"
What a crock.
Your deal is debunked big time.
I also debunked the Margaret Mcdonald silly "smoking gun"
How? I read her writings.
Facts are your enemy
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
....your deal has always been omission and change of God's word.
Just keep believing lies.
Keep not studying your Bible.
Jesus is rebuking those posrtrib false teachers when he invokes Daniel.
You should consider verses that ruin your doctrine.
The AC kills all refusing the mark.
You really think Jesus is coming for you postrib with that 666 on your forehead?
What on Earth do you do with that verse in Rev 7, With the innumerable number of martyrs before the throne?
We see A. Literal sea of martyrs before the throne of God,in heaven,during the tribulation
It is amazing... how those fooled by men's false post-trib rapture theory try to cite all kinds of early historical proof of it being preached in the Church.
They cite those ancient of lesser illumination
as dirtiest and infallible.
...as does the catholic church.
Kills them all?
Maybe if he can catch and hold them.
Rev 14, after the mention of the mark of the beast, tells us of the patience of the remaining saints on the earth at that time
3 angels with 3 messages, why? well maybe there is no open evangelism at this time, I don't know. Work while it is day, night comes when no man can work.
But we do see some have survived and not been marked
Revelation 14
The Proclamations of Three Angels
6 Then I saw another angel flying in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach to those who dwell on the earth—to every nation, tribe, tongue, and people— 7 saying with a loud voice, “Fear God and give glory to Him, for the hour of His judgment has come; and worship Him who made heaven and earth, the sea and springs of water.”8 And another angel followed, saying, “Babylon[f] is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she has made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.”
9 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”
12 Here is the [g]patience of the saints; here[h] are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
13 Then I heard a voice from heaven saying [i]to me, “Write: ‘Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.’ ”
“Yes,” says the Spirit, “that they may rest from their labors, and their works follow them.”
Similar threads
