The Rapture and the Tribulation - Short

[Spiritual Israelite]

You provide a link with quotes of the early Church fathers, with Irenaeus being one, he clearly states the church goes through the tribulation and (They Overcome) being crowned in reward, he states (In The End) the church will suddenly be caught up

Not one word Irenaeus states even hints at Darby's pre-trib rapture

Quote Irenaeus:
“And therefore, when in the end the Church shall be suddenly caught up from this, it is said, ‘There shall be tribulation such as has not been since the beginning, neither shall be’. For this is the last contest of the righteous, in which, when they overcome they are crowned with incorruption.”

He obviously was just making it up that there were ECFs who believed in a pre-trib rapture. I can't believe how dishonest these pre-tribs are.

 

[Truth7t7]

In a sermon entitled “On the Last Times, the Antichrist, and the End of the World,” Syrian church father Pseudo-Ephraem (fourth to sixth century) wrote, “For all the saints and elect of God are gathered, prior to the tribulation that is to come, and are taken to the Lord lest they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world because of our sins.”[8] The gathering Pseudo-Ephraem mentions appears to refer to a pre-tribulation Rapture of the Church.

In 1316, an anonymous treatise entitled The History of Brother Dolcino articulated some of the beliefs of the Apostolic Brethren.[9] Their leader, Brother Dolcino, believed he and his followers would be taken to heaven and protected from the actions of the Antichrist before later descending back to earth, thus holding to a belief in a pre-tribulation Rapture.

Pseudo-Ephraem was translated into English at Tyndale Seminary In Texas by Cameron Rhoades, it was done at the request of David Cloud and the late Grant Jeffrey for his book, the three mentioned are all biased pre-trib advocates being big names in this community

Tyndale Seminary is the size of a house in (Hurst Texas) and unaccredited in theological studies, Cameron Rhoades English that you quote is a biased "Farce"

When Was the Pre-Tribulation Rapture First Taught?
January 31, 2024 (first published November 6, 2014)
David Cloud, Way of Life Literature, P.O. Box 610368, Port Huron, MI 48061

In the 1990s some of Ephraem’s writings were translated into English for the first time, one of these being On the Last Times, the Antichrist, and the End of the World, A.D. 373.

The translation was done by Professor Cameron Rhoades of Tyndale Theological Seminary at the bequest of Grant R. Jeffrey. It was subsequently published in Jeffrey’s 1995 book Final Warning.

Tyndall Seminary Hurst Texas Below
701 W Pipeline Rd, Hurst, TX 76053

 

[Truth7t7]

The Shepherd of Hermas (AD 90 to 150), speaks of the pretribulational concept of escaping the tribulation.

"You have escaped from great tribulation on account of your faith, and because you did not doubt in the presence of such a beast. Therefore, go, tell the elect of the Lord His mighty deeds, and tell them that this beast is a type of the great tribulation that is coming. If you prepare yourselves, repent with all your heart, and turn to the Lord, it will be possible for you to escape it, if your heart is pure and spotless, and you spend the rest of your life in serving the Lord blamelessly."

Not one word you provide teaches of Darby's pre-trib rapture, you use the word "Escape" and try desperately to turn this into your pre-trib rapture, keep looking its found no place in scripture

 

[Truth7t7]

He obviously was just making it up that there were ECFs who believed in a pre-trib rapture. I can't believe how dishonest these pre-tribs are.

Yes I also believe dishonesty is in play, humans will go to great lengths trying to be right, man's pride in stubborn rebellion

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Yes I also believe dishonesty is in play, humans will go to great lengths trying to be right, man's pride in stubborn rebellion

Right. There was nothing in any of that text that said anything about anyone being taken off of the earth to avoid tribulation, but instead it talked about being protected while still on the earth. Pre-tribs apparently think we need to be escorted off of the earth whenever trouble comes and that God isn't capable of protecting us any other way.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Not one word you provide teaches of Darby's pre-trib rapture, you use the word "Escape" and try desperately to turn this into your pre-trib rapture, keep looking its found no place in scripture

Right. That quote talks about escaping tribulation and then after that spending "the rest of your life in serving the Lord blamelessly". So, he clearly was talking about being protected and enduring tribulation while on the earth and, once getting through it and enduring it, then serving the Lord the rest of your life after that. Nothing to do with a pre-trib rapture whatsoever.

 

[Davy]

It is amazing... how those fooled by men's false pre-trib rapture theory try to cite all kinds of early historical proof of it being preached in the Church when Lord Jesus Christ Himself showed that His coming to gather His saints will be AFTER... the tribulation, as written in Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27.

Even the 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 Scripture which those on man's pre-trib rapture theory try to interpret means Christ rapturing the Church prior to the tribulation actually instead reveals the time of Christ's coming is timed with when the future resurrection happens...

1 Thess 4:14-16
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with Him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
KJV

That phrase in red is a direct reference to the future resurrection. And in John 6:40, Jesus proclaimed that He will raise up His saints on the LAST DAY. That means AFTER the "great tribulation", not prior to it.

Thus the pre-trib rapture theory doctors even depend on their congregations NOT studying their Bible to grasp that above, but just believe those doctor's LIES, because I can about guarantee, not all of those pre-trib rapture doctors are deceived about the LIE they are pushing. God makes this point too, because in Ezekiel 13 He is rebuking those pre-trib preachers.

 

[Scott Downey]

Yes, the last Day of this world is the resurrection
Spoken of many times
John 11:24
Martha said to Him, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day.”

As is the judgment day.
John 12:48
He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him— the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.

2 Timothy 4
I charge you [a]therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead [b]at His appearing and His kingdom: 2 Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching. 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; 4 and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables. 5 But you be watchful in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.

 

[Scott Downey]

And if you can receive it, that judgment day is of the living and the dead after the resurrection and includes the great white throne judgment

And after the Day of judgment, we get the new earth and new heavens.

 

[Scott Downey]

Rev 20

11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them.

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before [c]God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.

13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second [d]death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.