The Rapture Lie

[6stringedsignseeker]

LOL this is before the tribulation not during it This chapter is two visions one before the tribulation begins and one after its over
Did you notice the Stop wait untill  the 144,000 are sealed. the tribulation hasnt even started yet thats the point
the rest of the chapter is a second vision after the tribulation

actually if you look at any chart of the end times, and most scholars would agree... this is early in the first 3 and 1/2 years of the tribulation. Besides, when in history have you ever heard of the winds not blowing in any part of the earth.  You are however  correct about the second half of the chapter where it mentions those in the white robes. Those are people who became christian during the tribulation.

 

[Christina]

actually if you look at any chart of the end times, and most scholars would agree... this is early in the first 3 and 1/2 years of the tribulation. Besides, when in history have you ever heard of the winds not blowing in any part of the earth.  You are however  correct about the second half of the chapter where it mentions those in the white robes. Those are people who became christian during the tribulation.

tell you what you believe any mans chart you like
but the the seals are not the tribulation.
Only trumpets harold the action
And God has shortened the time, and I havent heard of the four winds stopped because it has not happened yet
God seals the 144,000 before the 1st trumpet blows. believe what you like but these verse do not prove your point.

 

[6stringedsignseeker]

tell you what you believe any mans chart you like
but the the seals are not the tribulation.
Only trumpets harold the action  
And God has  shortened the time, and I havent heard of the four winds stopped because it has not happened yet
God seals the 144,000  before the 1st trumpet blows. believe what you like but these verse do not prove your point.

exactly... the four winds haven't stopped yet. That will likely happen during the tribulation. And those verses I gave did exactly prove my point when you stated we would not be raptured, instead we get that seal and that's all the protection we need. You are wrong there because nobody other than those 144,000 jews are going to get that seal. And you cannot argue what is clearly written in the bible. To say you're going to get one of those seals if the tribulation were to happen in your lifetime, is taking that seal out of context.... kinda like the same way the Jehova's Witnesses say only 144,000 Jehova's Witnesses are going to get into heaven. You can't pick and choose pieces of scripture, you have to see what the surrounding scripture around it contains.

 

[Christina]

exactly... the four winds haven't stopped yet. That will likely happen during the tribulation. And those verses I gave did exactly prove my point when you stated we would not be raptured, instead we get that seal and that's all the protection we need. You are wrong there because nobody other than those 144,000 jews are going to get that seal. And you cannot argue what is clearly written in the bible. To say you're going to get one of those seals if the tribulation were to happen in your lifetime, is taking that seal out of context.... kinda like the same way the Jehova's Witnesses say only 144,000 Jehova's Witnesses are going to get into heaven. You can't pick and choose pieces of scripture, you have to see what the surrounding scripture around it contains.

The sealing is before the tribulation not during it you are only using an opinion as proof not fact
and hey did you ever hear of the ten lost tribes ?
guess what they are not Jews they are christains that was the reason for Christs coming was it not ? So according to You the saints in heaven and jews get their saintly robes at the same time but not christains interesting. wrong but interesting
Your so far off that Ive no desire to try to explain the entire Word of God to you
I did once attempt to show these facts in scripture and was shut down
So you go ahead and believe what you like it really matters squat to me.
You think you got it all down so be it as it may ?
One question for you to think about no post answer required because it doesnt matter to me what your answer is but Why is it you think God would only seal the Jews when they do not even accept Christ (who is the only way) uhm espically during the time of gentile ..... Yet God only seals them before they Even accept Jesus Christ ?? Wow maybe then we should all become Jews instead of christians.... heres a little short video for you http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wURr3x2Zb_w

 

[forgivenWretch]

Being an admin on another site, we don't push any single doctrine or belief, in fact many of us believe different things and for the most part everyone gets along. We do like to debate, and every once in a while the debate might get a bit heated, however we do not tolerate people who simply want to make trouble, and attack each other. We will warn someone a number of times and if the abuse or the attacks does not stop we push a little button that makes you go bye bye. One of the things we've learned at that site is to respect each others differences and, as we like to say, "agree to disagree." When posting or reading on an online forum, sometimes it can be difficult to read into the true emotions of the poster. We are seeing words, not hearing them, and that can make a HUGE difference in the readers interpretation. Even when making a jest, a simple little    will help to keep someone from becoming offended. Most forums have smileys and emoticons, and they are a very useful tool in helping to show emotions in your posts.

Example 1: Have you lost your mind?

Example 2: Have you lost your mind?      

They make a big difference to the reader.

It's not the differences in peoples beliefs that cause the most strife on an online forum, it's the way posts are interpreted and in some cases simply some bad eggs.

You really don't want certain rules about what beliefs can and can't be posted, it discourages posting in many cases and can make the boards boring. A little bit of debate is healthy as long as everyone can simply "agree to disagree" and not be offended if someone thinks differently. As long as the posts are clean, and non-offensive, the boards will normally moderate themselves.   




*edit* thinking about that, I could probably use more smileys myself lol. 

6atrings, you deserve a high 5 for this post! The main issue I see is that every one makes things personal which should not be acceptable. The word [bold]you[/bold] causes more problems than any other word I've seen. In a debate, the opponents are only allowed to address the subject, NOT the other person.

I can feel so much hatred in many of the post in this thread, and it is revolting and discouraging. It most definitely will be a major factor in a non Christian choosing to join.

 

[6stringedsignseeker]

oh my.... you not only totally don't get that but you're also putting words in my mouth. those 144,000 convert to christianity! That's why they're sealed! Everyone getting those robes are christian! Look.... I provided you with scripture and your going to say that's what "I" believe? That's the bible, that's the word of God! You totally and completely are trying to twist what I've said into something else because you don't want to believe what the bible says, compared to something you tried to say earlier in this thread. You say you teach scripture but you're basically denying the scripture I've shown you. From a brother in Christ to a sister in Christ I humbly think you should study scripture a little harder before you teach it to someone else. Because if you're teaching bits and pieces of the bible to mean something they don't, like the seal, then you are responsible for teaching them wrongly. I'm not saying that to be mean or harsh.... I'm saying that as the truth.

 

[Christina]

oh my.... you not only totally don't get that but you're also putting words in my mouth. those 144,000 convert to christianity! That's why they're sealed! Everyone getting those robes are christian! Look.... I provided you with scripture and your going to say that's what "I" believe? That's the bible, that's the word of God! You totally and completely are trying to twist what I've said into something else because you don't want to believe what the bible says, compared to something you tried to say earlier in this thread. You say you teach scripture but you're basically denying the scripture I've shown you. From a brother in Christ to a sister in Christ I humbly think you should study scripture a little harder before you teach it to someone else. Because if you're teaching bits and pieces of the bible to mean something they don't, like the seal, then you are responsible for teaching them wrongly. I'm not saying that to be mean or harsh.... I'm saying that as the truth.

LOL you provided nothing a bad interptation and opinon isnt scripture but if its your scripture fine guess we read differnt books B)

 

[6stringedsignseeker]

LOL you provided nothing a bad interptation and opinon isnt scripture but if its your scripture fine guess we read differnt books  B)

ok.... correct me if I'm wrong here.... you're saying this...


Revelation 7:1-8
144,000 Sealed


1After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth to prevent any wind from blowing on the land or on the sea or on any tree. 2Then I saw another angel coming up from the east, having the seal of the living God. He called out in a loud voice to the four angels who had been given power to harm the land and the sea: 3"Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God." 4Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel.
5From the tribe of Judah 12,000 were sealed,
   from the tribe of Reuben 12,000,
   from the tribe of Gad 12,000,
6from the tribe of Asher 12,000,
   from the tribe of Naphtali 12,000,
   from the tribe of Manasseh 12,000,
7from the tribe of Simeon 12,000,
   from the tribe of Levi 12,000,
   from the tribe of Issachar 12,000,
8from the tribe of Zebulun 12,000,
   from the tribe of Joseph 12,000,
   from the tribe of Benjamin 12,000.


....is different in your Bible?




Anyway... that being said I don't believe the two of us are going to agree here. I don't wish to argue. I don't mind a good debate, but unfortunately this one is getting out of hand, and turning more into an argument. I will agree to disagree with you, but my previous post still stands. Like I said, I'm not trying to be mean or harsh but if you're taking the word out of context that is wrong, something I believe most can agree on. 

I will add you to my prayers.

 

[jiggyfly]

More years than you been alive
Ive never yet not found an answer to a question it may take time ans study but its all there


really want back your words with scripture put your money where your mouth is where does it say that ?

And by the way that isnt what I think at all far from it.... I think the majority will follow A.C. ... but you are so busy talking you do not listen. did you ever bother to ask me ?
I asked and said who thought they were worthy

Really, how old are you?

 

[Christina]

Mine says the same thing here only differance is I read it all the whole book from front to back many times and get it all
I dont just half hearted assume they are all jews that have become christains here because that doesnt fully occur untill after Christ returns.
and its never said prior to that... its pure speculation to try to make it work its not scripture and I do not deal in speculation. Im not discussing this with you try a little more education and in a few years perhaps you will be ready.
there are books in resouceres thread that might teach you but one must be willing to learn
I have nothing to prove here..I dont care if you agree with me or not. ...I only come here for those that are trying to learn and have real questions... not to prove Im right I simply teach the word as he wrote it.
Those who think they know everything and have something to prove and believe they got it all right in your mind fine by me.
we have nothing to discuss.

Hey you ever read the Queen of Englands genealogy ...guess where it goes might even relate to those ten lost tribes that became christians
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_k-bPNZiL84A/SUNyNoP1yjI/AAAAAAAAALI/pyMU1SE9hMA/s1600-h/GQEII.jpg

 

[jiggyfly]

More years than you been alive
Ive never yet not found an answer to a question it may take time ans study but its all there

So what date is the Lord returning?

 

[Christina]

So what date is the Lord returning?

20.....now dont be silly Jiggfly God answered that question it is not for us to know the hour or the day
but we are to know the season

 

[6stringedsignseeker]

 then you havent been studying more years than I've been alive then....I'm 36

6atrings, you deserve a high 5 for this post! The main issue I see is that every one makes things personal which should not be acceptable. The word [bold]you[/bold] causes more problems than any other word I've seen. In a debate, the opponents are only allowed to address the subject, NOT the other person.

I can feel so much hatred in many of the post in this thread, and it is revolting and discouraging. It most definitely will be a major factor in a non Christian choosing to join.

Thank you    and I have to agree unfortunately... as much as I love talking prophecy I'm opting out of this thread, at least for the time being. I'm beginning to get a little frustrated myself, and I don't want to be a bad witness if someone happens upon this site.

 

[jiggyfly]

20.....now dont be silly Jiggfly God answered that question it is not for us to know the hour or the day
but we are to know the season

How old are you Christina? Im curious especially since you have been studying the scriptures for 50 or more years.

 

[Brother Mike]

The 144,000 are from Israel.............. count them. 12..................... The bible is not that hard, it is not as complicated, and number counting as some make it.

Christina:

The sealing is before the tribulation not during it you are only using an opinion as proof not fact
and hey did you ever hear of the ten lost tribes ?
guess what they are not Jews they are Christians that was the reason for Christs coming was it not ?

The ten lost tribes are not mentioned in the bible at all.......... That theory is based on speculation and theory. Christ did not come for the ten lost tribes. he came out of the 12. The covenant was based on Abraham, It is the reason God rescued them out of Egypt, and that Covenant is the one Jesus established on better promises.

Rom 4:16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
Gal 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

No............. Christ did not make the Covenant because of some made up ten lost tribes....... It is not why he came, He came to destroy the works of the devil, who had power over death. That is actual scripture. Also in Christ is that covenant God made with Abraham. (Israel and 12 tribes) We are blessed with faithful Abraham.

Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.


Notice what is missing??? any mention of 10 lost tribes. Wikki............

The Ten Lost Tribes of Israel refers to the Tribes of ancient Israel that formed the Kingdom of Israel and disappeared from the Biblical account after the kingdom was destroyed in about 720 BCE by ancient Assyria.[1] Many groups have traditions concerning the continued hidden existence or future public return of these tribes.

This is a subject based upon written religious tradition and partially upon speculation. There is a vast amount of literature on the Lost Tribes and no specific source can be relied upon for a complete answer.

This is what Christiana's powers of bible study bring her. Truth based on speculation, and lack of sciptures.

144,000 Jews........................

There are a estimated 3 billion Christians in the World. According to Christina only a very small number of them get this seal. Was it the 144,000? Hard to tell what she is talking about. That would leave billions of Christians to face certain torture, which is impossible as I have proved above.

The 144,000 will keep the commandments as the custom of Israel and give the testimony of Jesus.

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman (Israel), and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

This testimony will be much like what John the Baptist preached, it will not be the Gospel of Christ, or the Gospel of the anointing with the Holy Spirit. It will be unto repentance.

Jesus said when the Gospel is preached all over the World, then the end comes. Our Job as Christians is done at that time. We are the anointed that preach the Gospel of Christ (The anointed one and his anointing)

Mat 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

144,000 will testify of Jesus, they are from Israel. There are no 10 lost tribes................ Looking outside the Word for truth will get you into serious error. I saw the video........

Jesus Is Lord.

 

[Christina]

Old enough that your just a kid yet,

 

[jiggyfly]

Old enough that your just a kid yet,

Very very strange.

 

[Christina]

The 144,000 are from Israel.............. count them. 12..................... The bible is not that hard, it is not as complicated, and number counting as some make it.

Christina:



The ten lost tribes are not mentioned in the bible at all.......... That theory is based on speculation and theory. Christ did not come for the ten lost tribes. he came out of the 12. The covenant was based on Abraham, It is the reason God rescued them out of Egypt, and that Covenant is the one Jesus established on better promises.



Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
Gal 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

No............. Christ did not make the Covenant because of some made up ten lost tribes....... It is not why he came, He came to destroy the works of the devil, who had power over death. That is actual scripture. Also in Christ is that covenant God made with Abraham. (Israel and 12 tribes) We are blessed with faithful Abraham.

Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.


Notice what is missing??? any mention of 10 lost tribes. Wikki............



This is what Christiana's powers of bible study bring her. Truth based on speculation, and lack of sciptures.

144,000 Jews........................

There are a estimated 3 billion Christians in the World. According to Christina only a very small number of them get this seal. Was it the 144,000? Hard to tell what she is talking about. That would leave billions of Christians to face certain torture, which is impossible as I have proved above.

The 144,000 will keep the commandments as the custom of Israel and give the testimony of Jesus.

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman (Israel), and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

This testimony will be much like what John the Baptist preached, it will not be the Gospel of Christ, or the Gospel of the anointing with the Holy Spirit. It will be unto repentance.

Jesus said when the Gospel is preached all over the World, then the end comes. Our Job as Christians is done at that time. We are the anointed that preach the Gospel of Christ (The anointed one and his anointing)

Mat 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

144,000 will testify of Jesus, they are from Israel. There are no 10 lost tribes................ Looking outside the Word for truth will get you into serious error. I saw the video........

Jesus Is Lord.

Whatever you say but you should use the right scripture and by the way history is what is even you cant change that. You know did you ever hear of little thing that happened in 70 A.D, where Israel was destroyed and all were scattered.
ever read and understand Eze 17 no I doubt it its a parable in a riddle so its a little to complicated ..ever hear of Tea Tephi in history..and Im sure all those genealogys are lying ...
and of course the Jews themselves speak of ten lost tribes as they know they are lost to history ...but hey Im sure you have looked into all Mike ...
you are right that they are not lost to God ..and he tells you who they are bu thats just scripture
anybody can go copy and paste an oppisite veiw doesnt mean its scriptural
wikki is just another opinon ... wish you were as intersted in the word of God as you were in trying to prove something what a bible site this would be

 

[01CobraVortech]

Christina you're more than welcome to come to my mansion in heaven. But there's a strong possibility I could be serving you a nice big piece of humble pie after this "rapture" debate gets settled in the near future. Bring a big appetite. :lol:

 

[Christina]

Christina you're more than welcome to come to my mansion in heaven. But there's a strong possibility I could be serving you a nice big piece of humble pie after this "rapture" debate gets settled in the near future. Bring a big appetite. :lol:

its been said before is there a point