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The Rapture Lie

Discussion in 'Christian Debate Forum' started by Christina, May 27, 2010.

  1. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    Couldnt agree more thats exactly it but truth doesnt go far here
     
  2. jerryjohnson

    jerryjohnson New Member

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    I am not sure what you mean by “the so-called New Testament.”



    Nonsense,
    I see the references to the Northern ten tribes in many places on the New Testament.
     
  3. Brother Mike

    Brother Mike New Member

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    Jarbreaker:

    Jarbreaker...................... All are accounted for. That is the 12 tribes, the ones that have not the mark will be hurt. Why, because there are simply more people on earth than the 144,000 accounted for.

    And not sure you statement about the ten Gates............. What scripture?

    Rev 21:12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:

    What Ten Gates!!!!

    Fivesense:
    Thank you for you kind Words fivesense, However the wife just sat down to look at my Pre-Trib proven scripture and said, Mike, that last trump is just in a series of trumpet blast like the walls of Jerico. dohhhh, I did all that work and she sits down and makes my missing connection. I was on track though.
     
  4. JarBreaker

    JarBreaker New Member

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    I was making the distiction between 2 of the 12 gates being named for the only 2 tribes that are today known as Jews. As in if you do not see the "lost tribes" in your readings ... how can you deny that they WILL BE FOUND as there are 10/12 gates with the names of the lost 10 on them.
     
  5. Brother Mike

    Brother Mike New Member

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    Jarbreaker:

    Ah, Ok, I was getting concerned there for a second. Thank you for clearing that up. I misunderstood your point.

    JerryJohnson:

    I see the references to the Northern ten tribes in many places on the New Testament.

    JerryJohnson, Where are those scriptures? It is hard to understand a teaching you have never heard when nobody is giving scripture to support what they believe.......

    I come for the Lost sheep of Israel............... David said he was a lost sheep, how can anyone see this as ten tribes?

    There are not 10 gates, no ten anything for this lost tribe............. You can not expect anyone to follow something as true if there is nothing to follow. Scripture............. where is the scripture. I keep hearing Christiana about this proof she gave, a video about a rock under a chair........... Scripture!!!!

    Jesus is Lord.
     
  6. JarBreaker

    JarBreaker New Member

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    http://endtimepilgrim.org/tentribes.htm


    Good breakdown of the britam stuff I linked before and vids of Yair Davidy who did that research. Pay attention to the prophecy of Gomer and the bit from Micah about the sheep of Botsrah.


    This is so flimsy, you wanna find anything at all to shoot something down you admittedly have no knowledge of ... I linked that britam page and just before this linked a different page with the same info.

    That "video ... about ......... A ROCK"

    That rock was the very stone Jacob laid his head on when he went to sleep before wrestling the angel and being RE-NAMED ISRAEL.


    Christina linked the video because it described (however briefly, again the britam stuff is more detailed than you could ask for) ... the stone traced a path into Scotland, showing (as Yair Davidy does on the britam stuff) the migrations of the lost 10 tribes.
     
  7. Brother Mike

    Brother Mike New Member

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    No, Jarbreaker. I am not trying to shoot something down. That sheep reference is just as weak concerning the ten tribes. I don't have to give you all the references to all the sheep. Jesus said sheep, not tribes. How can anyone make that connectiong without more supporting scriptures reguarding sheep. Using the Word "Lost" in connection to sheep is really way out there. Now you might see something there, but you should not as a teacher expect anyone else to see it.

    I will check your link, I am not interested in anything outside the bible, so I am sure there will be pleanty of scripture. I hope.


    Jesus is Lord.
     
  8. Brother Mike

    Brother Mike New Member

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    Ten lost tribes:





    I went over and read the whole web site. I checked what few scriptures where given. Most of it is outside what the bible says in interviews and other video's.

    Here is the thing, if you want to believe something, you will take scripture and make them say what you want. If God's focus would have been on some ten lost tribes, we would have seen that clearly mentioned.

    All the scriptures given, and I mean all do not pinpoint any lost tribe, absoultly nothing about the number ten. I see a lot of genealogies, and studies outside what the bible does give us.

    We are not to take a belief, then try to prove it with any scripture that "May" fit. The bible gives us clearly what to believe.

    The scripture is clear, very clear on this...............................

    1Ti 1:4 Nor to give importance to or occupy themselves with legends (fables, myths) and endless genealogies, which foster and promote useless speculations and questionings rather than acceptance in faith of God's administration and the divine training that is in faith ([1] in that leaning of the entire human personality on God in absolute trust and confidence)--

    Not taking heed, and ignoring the above scripture will cause anyone to get into error. disobedience to the Word of God, will produce confusion.

    The ten tribes would have been pointed out, number given, and made clear if there was any important role concerning End time events. This is not at all the case.

    Jesus Is Lord.
     
  9. fivesense

    fivesense New Member

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    Jn 16:12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

    Is it possible to lift a verse out of context, as done here with Mark 13, and hope no one will notice? On this site, Christina, there are many which hold fast to the truths revealed to them by Holy Spirit. They have themselves labored arduously in faith before God, seeking His approval and not mens'. You do yourself and others who may not be inclined to earnest study a disfavor by trying to pull a fast one. It will not fly too far on this forum.

    His speaking to His apostles in Mark's account was an advance warning of the trials they were about to face in His absense as a result of being His being put to death. It is not prophetic or revelatory beyond that period. To make it so is falsehood and deceit. I presume you do this from ignorance, therefore I bring it to your attention, and make allowance for the error.

    Paul received the latest and truest revelations from God's own Son, many years after the Twelve had seen and experienced the apostasy of Israel, and had come to grips with the Kingdom retreating and their greatest hope and desire, Messiah on the throne in Jerusalem, becoming an impossibility.

    Paul spoke things to them from God that they had never heard, and could not even apprehend with their minds, the Lord preventing them no doubt, in order to fulfill His will.

    2Pt 3:15 And account [that] the longsuffering of our Lord [is] salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
    2Pt 3:16 As also in all [his] epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as [they do] also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

    The first passage I quote, and I know you like evidence, all judges do, came after He "foretold" them the "all things" of Mark 13. That, along 2 Peter should give you ample proof that your positioning is useful only to the credulous soul, not the discerning ones whose spirits are staunch and grounded in the truth.
    fivesense


     
  10. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    You seem to think I care what you say
    your ingnorance of scripture is evident enough for me thanks no futher example needed.
    perhaps you should ask Hammerstone to explain this to you
    because everything you all are trashing me for is his belief also along with many others you jokers have run off
    How long do you think he's going to tolerate you all running off real bible students, misleading babes, and trying to take over and run his site according to your ideas...

    This has always been a site for all not just you yahoo's
    Its either listen to you guys or get relentlessy attacked you can keep making your attacks personally directed to me or Jerry but you are offending everyone. So have your little fun while you can.

    So keep running your holier and thou mouths fine by me .....
     
  11. fivesense

    fivesense New Member

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    I am very surprised that a man of your skill and calibur has not investigated the very origins of God's Sacred Writings. I am somewhat suspicious, since I thought you had responded in line with thinking that results from uncovering those obscured things, being able to understand some of the deep things of God. Perhaps you have just plagiarized certain items and I was unaware at the time.

    The divisions of the books in the translations we have are manufactured. God did not put any there. He has personally assigned a name to each of the scrolls He wrote through His prophets, and the bible titles and headings used today are mostly incorrect or inserted for expedience. Even though the accounts of the Gospel writers is in the Greek language, God never made a distinction between Old and New. In reality the four gospels, including the Acts of the Apostles, is a continuation of the Jewish oracles, and a historical record of God's dealings with them. It is only when Paul comes on the scene that the "address on the envelope" begins to change, and if Paul's letters were removed, there would be scarcely a Gentile named in the entire amalgam. It would be entirely Hebrew in flavor, totally devoid of grace, and based upon works.

    It requires a desire to know the truth, so finding the Greek interlinear you have will immediately show you what I'm talking about. I am not in error. The divisions are not inspired, but they are useful. My point in saying "so-called" is to draw attention to the subtle work of the enemy behind the scenes, systematizing ( methodeia) the deception against the saints. It is honorable to God and excellent for faith to know this truth. It reveals one more reason why the Lord said not to put our trust in men, but in Him alone.

    He has indeed preserved His word, and all that we need to know can be found in the Originals, however, translations are not inspired, they are interpretations in many parts of them, and few are faithful to God's precise usage of vocabulary as found in the Greek.

    By the way, there is not a single translation of the Writings KJV, YLT, CLNT, or otherwise, that lists "northern tribe, northern tribes," in the New Testament. Neither is the term, "lost tribe, or tribes" found in any version of the New Testament.

    That being so, jerryjohnson, you have a good deal of honest and meaningful explaining to do concerning the "seeing of the Northern ten tribes" in the New Testament record, since it is not mentioned anywhere else, except by your authority.

    "Every toad sits on his own stool" (I- saw- it- in- there version of fivesense' two-cent version of the bible)
    fivesense
     
  12. Brother Mike

    Brother Mike New Member

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    Christina:

    As fivesens pointed out Christina, and I spent a few hours looking at the Web page about the ten lost tribes of Isreal that Jarbreaker gave me. What fivesense and myself concluded is correct.

    Fivesense:
    I am not sure why you keep saying ask Hammerstone, he has the same bibles we do. You also confuse attacking with someone that is trying to show you what is true and what is not in the Word of God. If the Bible does say something, it will line up with everything else, it will match every scripture perfectly. If it is important the Word would make it clear, and repeat. God is not the Author of the obscure, or confusion.

    You also ignore the fact that I tried my best to find these ten lost tribes in the Word. I went to the web sites and listened to all the short videos, and audio clips, I did what I was instructed to do, and spent lots of time....... The ten tribes are not in the bible....... all that are given is some scripture that people want to make it to be ten tribes, when it's not even close.

    We don't just make up something then try to grab obscure scriptures to prove what we want. It does not work that way.

    Even the Fly away Doctrine............... You ask others to suspend their system of bible interpretation, and ignore the context of What God was saying, just so you can prove something you make up.

    Eze 13:20 Wherefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly.

    All of a sudden, God mentions the belief in the rapture in this scripture.................???? only confused people would believe that.

    Out of nowhere God decides to just throw that in there, so everyone would think it is rapture he hates. Let me tell you something. God would have used "Caught away, taken suddenly in the air by the Lord" It would have been very clear. The term fly away is consistent with the rest of the scriptures.

    Also, God was talking to those that use pillows (Form of charm or witchcraft device)

    The Word "Fly" has nothing in common with the Word "Caught up" our Greek word for Harpoon. It means to make bud, to flourish, to Grow, blossom.

    yet because we want to prove a theory of ours, we make stuff up, and find scriptures we can twist to our own liking.

    It's not us Christina, it is you who refuse to humble yourself and hear the truth................

    Jesus is Lord.
     
  13. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE I COULD CARE LESS WHAT YOU AND FIVESENSE THINK
    YOU DO NOT RUN THE SHOW HERE
    DO NOT TELL ME YOU TWO HAVE SPEND A FEW HOURS STUDYING SUBJECT THAT SCHOLARS HAVE SPENT
    YEARS WRITING BOOKS ON AND YOU AND FIVESENSE HAVE DECIDED IT IS INCORRECT WHAT A JOKE

    YOUR ARROGANCE IS AMAZING ...... I AM NOTHING BUT A MEMBER HERE YET YOU AND YOUR GROUP HAVE ADDRESSED ME PERSONALLY ON EVERY SINGLE POST AND STUDY I HAVE MADE FOR A WEEK

    I HAVE AS MUCH RIGHT TO MY VIEWS AS YOU DO YET YOU HAVE RELENTESSLY SINGLED ME AND OTHERS OUT THAT DISAGREE WITH YOUR VIEW
    IF THIS SITE HAS BECOME A SITE OF YOU(Bro Mike) Fivesense,jiggfly and THE Robsters VIEW
    THEN THE MANAGMENT NEEDS TO REFLECT THAT
    UNTILL THAT TIME AS A MEMBER HERE MY VIEW AND THAT OF OTHERS HOLDS AS MUCH WEIGHT AS ANY ONE ELSE SO GET OFF YOUR SOAP BOX YOU NOBODY
     
    jerryjohnson likes this.
  14. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly New Member

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    Not sure why you are shouting but you are right and I am glad to see that you now admit that your posts are just that "your view".[​IMG]
     
  15. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    At least they are based in scripture not magic didnt God warn against that :angry:
     
  16. jerryjohnson

    jerryjohnson New Member

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    The same is true for your posts, jf
     
  17. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly New Member

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    Absolutely and I think I have been very clear about that in my posts. No one and I repeat no one here at CB has ever posted anything that is completely free from bias. This is a forum and thats what forums do, everyone expresses their personal view.[​IMG]

    But if you, Christina and or others are offended by others posting their views concerning what they feel the scriptures mean to them maybe you should just consider leaving peacefully, so as not to cause yourself or anyone else any extra grief.[​IMG]
     
  18. Brother Mike

    Brother Mike New Member

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    No, Christina, that is not correct. These are just your views. We ask for scriptures that are clear and easy to follow. You don't just believe something and find something in the Word that suits you and claim it supports your belief. My fly away scripture was an example. I want to know how you get the Hebrew meaning for fly as a Rapture theory, when the Word does not even come close. I want to know how you relate other believers as being into magic as Eze clearly states, as the ones that believe in flying away.

    Your saying that we must use pillows and magic charms because we teach the pre-Trib Rapture, and God just changed thoughts and happened to mention it in Eze out of the blue, to support your belief system.

    So, I want to know where you got that meaning for fly away, I want to know how you compare people that believe that to witches, and I want to know why you think God just threw that in there about the rapture, and what Hebrew do you have that supports being snatched suddenly to be with the Lord.

    Same with your reincarnation theory that mans spirit was on earth before Adam. I want scripture that shows us being here. I want the time man's spirit was created and where that spirit was placed.

    You provide none of these, but continue to say we are picking on you.

    Jesus Is Lord.
     
  19. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    :lol: more of your lies
    Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen
    careful bro mike you are in sin
     
  20. Brother Mike

    Brother Mike New Member

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    could you please exlain what Hebrew you used to prove the term fly meant Rapture, to be with the Lord.

    could you explain how you draw this conclusion, that God is warning that he does not like the pre-trib Rapture theory in Eze, and why God would include spell casters and charms when mentioning his dislike of the Rapture Doctrine.

    Thanx.

    Jesus Is Lord.
     
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