The saint must walk alone

[Hidden In Him]

The prophets existed before the church. Only prophets, priests, and kings were given His Spirit. Now every born again believer is given His Spirit. You've missed the entire point of the gospel message and the New Covenant.

If every member of the church is governed by the Spirit, why was Paul regularly abandoned by people in ministry? Why did he have to defend his apostleship to the entire church at Corinth, even to the point of embarrassing himself? Why was half the church in Corinth in so much division with with the other half that they weren't even taking communion together?

Like Marks, you paint this mythical picture of the church as if everything was all kumbaya, because "they all had the Spirit," and it was nothing but blissful, delirious unity, with no one being rejected. It is a blatant misrepresentation of the truth, and yet I have no clue about the New Covenant.

 

[michaelvpardo]

If every member of the church is governed by the Spirit, why was Paul regularly abandoned by people in ministry? Why did he have to defend his apostleship to the entire church at Corinth, even to the point of embarrassing himself? Why was half the church in Corinth in so much division with with the other half that they weren't even taking communion together?

Like Marks, you paint this mythical picture of the church as if everything was all kumbaya, because "they all had the Spirit," and it was nothing but blissful, delirious unity, with no one being rejected. It is a blatant misrepresentation of the truth, and yet I have no clue about the New Covenant.

If you believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and was raised from the dead, you can pray to receive Him in submission to His will, and He will give you His Spirit and make you a part of the body of Christ. He'll take all that hatred and bitterness from you and set you among the brethren, and you'll never be alone again.

 

[Hidden In Him]

If you believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and was raised from the dead, you can pray to receive Him in submission to His will, and He will give you His Spirit and make you a part of the body of Christ. He'll take all that hatred and bitterness from you and set you among the brethren, and you'll never be alone again.

What on EARTH does that have to do with my post? LoL.

You are resorting to making another accusation against me now because you have no answer for my response?

 

[michaelvpardo]

What on EARTH does that have to do with my post? LoL.

You are resorting to making another accusation against me now because you have no answer for my response?

I answered your response. There was no church in the days of the prophets, the Holy Spirit was not given to permanently indwell anyone, and only a very few people had access to God.

Now, every believer in Christ Jesus who asks for His Spirit to guide him into all righteousness in submission to Christ, receives Him, not just a few here and there, but all.
I know by your choice of avatar and your posts that you consider yourself some kind of heroic abused loaner. I know that you clearly know something of Christ, but do you know Him personally? Have you met Him? Does He speak to you in comforts and through His word? Do you recognize His Spirit in the saints?
There's not just a few saints walking around the Earth all by themselves, but literally thousands, over 10,000 Jewish saints alone in Israel without trying to guess how many gentiles have entered in to His covenant. I've met or at least worshipped with a few hundred genuine born again believers over the last 25 years and that's in only about 7 churches out of thousands of assemblies, but you think that you're one of just a few that must walk alone?

 

[Hidden In Him]

I know by your choice of avatar and your posts that you consider yourself some kind of heroic abused loaner. I know that you clearly know something of Christ, but do you know Him personally? Have you met Him? Does He speak to you in comforts and through His word? Do you recognize His Spirit in the saints?

Oh, my goodness. So now I'm not even saved, is that it?

The judgmentalism on this thread is just incredible, LoL. I sure do need more of THIS. Nothing like being told you're not even saved to give that "much loved" feeling.

Alright, Michael. I'm unsaved.

Talk to you later.

 

[michaelvpardo]

Oh, my goodness. So now I'm not even saved, is that it?

The judgmentalism on this thread is just incredible, LoL. I sure do need more of THIS. Nothing like being told you're not even saved to give that "much loved" feeling.

Alright, Michael. I'm unsaved.

Talk to you later.

I haven't a clue what you are. I don't know you from Adam.
However, you appear to be in agreement with this foolish and unbiblical notion that the saints must walk alone.

That was a necessity before the Holy Spirit was given, but just plain ignorant of the teaching under the New Covenant.
You do understand that in Christ we're under a new and better covenant, right?

 

[TLHKAJ]

Ecclesiastes 4:9-12
[9]Two are better than one; because they have a good reward for their labour.
[10]For if they fall, the one will lift up his fellow: but woe to him that is alone when he falleth; for he hath not another to help him up.
[11]Again, if two lie together, then they have heat: but how can one be warm alone?
[12]And if one prevail against him, two shall withstand him; and a threefold cord is not quickly broken.

 

[michaelvpardo]

Ecclesiastes 4:9-12
[9]Two are better than one; because they have a good reward for their labour.
[10]For if they fall, the one will lift up his fellow: but woe to him that is alone when he falleth; for he hath not another to help him up.
[11]Again, if two lie together, then they have heat: but how can one be warm alone?
[12]And if one prevail against him, two shall withstand him; and a threefold cord is not quickly broken.

Thank you. There are a lot of verses about fellowship and unity in the Spirit, participation in service in the body of Christ, etc. I find it very disturbing that anyone should intentionally separate themselves from the fellowship of the saints if they aren't homebound. Satan is described as a lion, a predator that stalks us, looking for whom he may devour. Predators separate the loaners out of the flock or herd in order to devour them.

In the body we can pray for each other and help each other with our needs, our hurts, our weaknesses, and our failings. In the body His Spirit gives us love for one another and power to humble ourselves and submit to authority. In the body we are held accountable by each other and strengthened against sin. I guess some folks want to stand alone to prove their strength, but pride goes before a fall and if you fall alone....

 

[lforrest]

And yet ministering to the saints makes you lots of beloved friends as well. It is the paradox of serving God!

Jesus said if we serve Him we give up family and friends but receive 100X more!

A good point. Consider Luke 16:9, what will heaven be like if we are alone there?

 

[marks]

Are you rejecting Christ and trying to live under the Old Testament? The idea that saints should walk alone isn't heresy, but it's ignorance of God's purposes in the church.

I understand the idea isn't to seek isolation, rather, that some Christians are at such an elevated level in their walk that no one else can accept that they are in fact so spiritual, and Godly, and so they reject them, and even persucute them, so that the so-elevated Christian just finds themself alone. No one near them is at their same level, and those who are near them are so far below them that they just cannot fellowship together. So the "saint", the "elevated Christian", must walk alone.

If you're selected by God to be a "saint" from among the Christians, the rest of the Christians will reject you, and you will be alone. That's what this thread is about.

To which I reply, we are intended by God for communion with each other, and the quality of our discipleship is known by our love for each other. I don't paint that love as an unrequited love, the "saints" loving the "faithful", but the "faithful" unable to return that love. That's antithetical to what Jesus actually does for us. He unites us together in love, and if we are not in a loving unity, we are not doing it right.

This ecclesiatical division of "saints" and "faithful" that seems to appear in all of @David H. 's threads (edit to add . . . oops, not his thread in this case . . .) is again here shown false in that Christ came to divide us from the world, NOT from each other, or only to the extend of showing who is and is not approved.

Much love!

 

[marks]

In the body we can pray for each other and help each other with our needs, our hurts, our weaknesses, and our failings.

A continuing thought from our discussion yesterday, forum participation such as this is makes for good practice at learning to understand various points of view. I like to practice "active listening", or it's more descriptive name, "reflective listening", where you repeat back to someone their message in your words until they say Yes, you understand.

In some people's cases as I'm trying to ask those questions and reconcile the things they've said that it becomes shown that their points cannot be reconciled, that's when I find that I'm suddenly alone. And typically after a string of Ad Hominems.

So Again, I reflect on the mixed-value of all this. One thing I'll say, I do appreciate our discussions!

Much love!

 

[marks]

Like Marks, you paint this mythical picture of the church as if everything was all kumbaya, because "they all had the Spirit," and it was nothing but blissful, delirious unity, with no one being rejected. It is a blatant misrepresentation of the truth, and yet I have no clue about the New Covenant.

I truly hope you don't mind me replying to you . . .

This isn't what I've been trying to express. I know people have been rejected by others at times in their lives. Paul said that all had left him for other things. At his trial before Nero no one stood with him. I know those things. Jesus went to His death - alone. All forsook Him.

But if rejection from the rest of the church is a consistent fact in someone's life, I'd be suggesting they take a real good look at what may be causing that, because it's not God's plan for us.

This goes along with the idea of a "saints" and "faithful" separation, and this is another way of painting a picture of the "saint" as something elevated over Christians, so much so that they cannot even be accepted by the Christians. And this is all the more reason to reject that thinking as directly contrary to God's design for Jesus' body.

Ephesians 4:1-3 KJV
1) I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,
2) With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;
3) Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.

Without lowliness, meekness, we will not be endeavoring to keep the unity of the Spirit, and personally, that's what I see being put aside here. Jesus came to divide us from the world, not from each other.

If we are walking in the Spirit, we will truly be as brothers.

Much love!

 

[marks]

A good point. Consider Luke 16:9, what will heaven be like if we are alone there?

Ephesians 2:6 KJV
And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

We are together in the heavenly realm, but rejecting each other in the terrestrial realm, and this is how it should be?

Much love!

 

[lforrest]

Ephesians 2:6 KJV
And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

We are together in the heavenly realm, but rejecting each other in the terrestrial realm, and this is how it should be?

Much love!

Absolutely not the way it should be. There should be fellowship.

But it is also exhausting being unable to take my guard down. Try setting it down for a second and one of the spirits operating in most everyone will take advantage of the opportunity.

 

[michaelvpardo]

I understand the idea isn't to seek isolation, rather, that some Christians are at such an elevated level in their walk that no one else can accept that they are in fact so spiritual, and Godly, and so they reject them, and even persucute them, so that the so-elevated Christian just finds themself alone. No one near them is at their same level, and those who are near them are so far below them that they just cannot fellowship together. So the "saint", the "elevated Christian", must walk alone.

If you're selected by God to be a "saint" from among the Christians, the rest of the Christians will reject you, and you will be alone. That's what this thread is about.

To which I reply, we are intended by God for communion with each other, and the quality of our discipleship is known by our love for each other. I don't paint that love as an unrequited love, the "saints" loving the "faithful", but the "faithful" unable to return that love. That's antithetical to what Jesus actually does for us. He unites us together in love, and if we are not in a loving unity, we are not doing it right.

This ecclesiatical division of "saints" and "faithful" that seems to appear in all of @David H. 's threads is again here shown false in that Christ came to divide us from the world, NOT from each other, or only to the extend of showing who is and is not approved.

Much love!

Sorry, this isn't really biblical either. Saints don't grow to be elevated. They grow in grace which actually means that they grow in humility, seeing more and more of their sin and loving God all the more for it. If they actually do grow, then it's toward being an elder and acknowledging that they are nothing and Christ is everything.

10 the twenty-four elders fall down before Him who sits on the throne and worship Him who lives forever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying:
11 “You are worthy, O Lord,
To receive glory and honor and power;
For You created all things,
And by Your will they exist and were created.” Revelation 4:10-11
The elders cast their crowns before the throne as an acknowledgement that all their testimony, all they are or ever were was because of God's gifts and election. God is Sovereign in creation.

The heavens are yours; the earth also is yours;
the world and all that is in it, you have founded them.
The north and the south, you have created them;
Tabor and Hermon joyously praise your name. Psalm 89:10-11

2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world. Hebrews 1:2
The elders don't walk alone on this sod, but remain a vital part of the body of Christ. They are responsible for church discipline and order in the body. Without them you have the same sort of Chaos you see on forums like this.

17 Let the elders who rule well be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in preaching and teaching. 18 For the Scripture says, “You shall not muzzle an ox when it treads out the grain,” and, “The laborer deserves his wages.” 1 Timothy 5:17-18
The elders are the most unified part of the church. The saints in Christ do not walk alone unless they seek their own will.

 

[michaelvpardo]

A continuing thought from our discussion yesterday, forum participation such as this is makes for good practice at learning to understand various points of view. I like to practice "active listening", or it's more descriptive name, "reflective listening", where you repeat back to someone their message in your words until they say Yes, you understand.

In some people's cases as I'm trying to ask those questions and reconcile the things they've said that it becomes shown that their points cannot be reconciled, that's when I find that I'm suddenly alone. And typically after a string of Ad Hominems.

So Again, I reflect on the mixed-value of all this. One thing I'll say, I do appreciate our discussions!

Much love!

OK, but remember that you're interacting only with what other people let you see of themselves (and that isn't very much at all.) None of us are the best judge of our own character. None of us can assess our own wisdom. Only a fool imagines that he's omniscient.
For all you know, I or anyone else here could be an entirely fake identity. Sincerity is a learned and practiced virtue.
Everything here is a filtered parody of what we are.
This is part of why real fellowship (in person and face to face) is essential to accountability and growth.

 

[marks]

OK, but remember that you're interacting only with what other people let you see of themselves (and that isn't very much at all.) None of us are the best judge of our own character. None of us can assess our own wisdom. Only a fool imagines that he's omniscient.
For all you know, I or anyone else here could be an entirely fake identity. Sincerity is a learned and practiced virtue.
Everything here is a filtered parody of what we are.
This is part of why real fellowship (in person and face to face) is essential to accountability and growth.

I agree with this entirely! Maybe I wouldn't use the word "parody", but I agree, filtered.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Sorry, this isn't really biblical either. Saints don't grow to be elevated.

Amen!

I was rehearsing the idea to clarify what I understand this thread to be about. The whole reason in saying "the saint walks alone" is that the saint has been elevated. I agree with you, absolutey antithetical to the Scripture teaching of the body of Christ.

Much love!