Davy
Well-Known Member
And I have a PROBLEM with those calling ME a liar just because I teach ACCORDING TO WHAT APOSTLE PAUL SAID!
May my Heavenly Father thus rebuke you, in the name of Jesus Christ!
The Sin Nature
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And I have a PROBLEM with those calling ME a liar just because I teach ACCORDING TO WHAT APOSTLE PAUL SAID!
May my Heavenly Father thus rebuke you, in the name of Jesus Christ!
ScottA
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Simple answer?
If you were not born in the Garden, but born in this world...God has already determined your "nature" as sinful.
Just because someone disagrees with you does not mean they are calling you a liar!
That's the wrong attitude to have on these boards.
Just because you interpret Paul a certain way does not mean you are right, the same goes for all of us.
The way I see it, concerning your quoting Christ that flesh is flesh and spirit is spirit, it would appear that flesh and spirit cannot be joined. I think Christ proved that wrong! He was both God and Man, having existed in spirit and the flesh.
I think His resurrection reflects that joining of spirit and flesh in the glorified body He ascended into heaven with.
The spiritual body of flesh! And John said we will be like Him.
Davy
Well-Known Member
You called me a LIAR, just because I teach what Apostle Paul himself taught per 1 Corinthians 15 about the type body of the resurrection. So yeah, at the same time you calling me a LIAR, you are calling Apostle Paul a LIAR also, because Paul made it plain there that the resurrection body IS NOT A FLESH BODY, but a "spiritual body", as written...
1 Cor 15:42-50
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
KJV
So those who question my agreement with what Apostle Paul said in the above, are actually AGAINST APOSTLE PAUL and thus The Word of God, and those AGAINST THAT WORD should NOT be listened to!
I disagree with you but never called you a liar. That is an invention of your own making, which reflects the wrong attitude, my friend!
It seems we have to agree with you or we are against Paul, that is absurd!
Behold
Well-Known Member
Our present body, is "dead because of sin" and will be put into the ground in a box, or they will burn it in a crematorium.
If you fall off a Ocean Liner, then that a different ending, and the crabs will get you.....but just your body.
Our Born again Spirit, that has been circumcised from this "body of sin"..... needs a Spiritual Body.
This "circumcision of Christ".... Colossians 2:11 is us being joined to Christ's Spirit, yet we the Spirit born again, are still in the body of Death, yet we are also, in Christ "seated in Heavenly places", with Christ who has sat down after offering Himself as """"the one time eternal sacrifice for sin"" on the Cross...., and we are there in Spiritual Union with Him, in Heaven.
This is a mystery that is a fact.
WE, the born again, Spiritually.... will get a new Spiritual Body that is designed for the born again Spirit.
Davy
Well-Known Member
In your post #99 that is basically what you are saying, just because I follow what Apostle Paul taught in 1 Corinthians 15 about what type of body the resurrection is, which he said is a "spiritual body", and NOT one of flesh and blood.
So to go AGAINST WHAT HE SAID THERE, is to call Apostle Paul a LIAR. That means if you disagree with me teaching exactly what Apostle Paul said that the resurrection body type is to a "spiritual body", then that means you are saying I'm a liar too.
What this means is that you are a DENIER of God's written Word (like the below), and I don't have time for those who doubt the written Word of God. Welcome to my Ignore list!
1 Cor 15:42-50
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
KJV
Can't we disagree without using the word "LIAR?" That is a negative that needs not be!
OK, I made your ignore list. That's not my problem.
In your mind I'm disagreeing with Paul through your interpretation. You have no time for my interpretation.
All you can see is that I'm calling you a liar, I'm against Paul, and a denier of the Scripture.
So be it!
Yes @marks ,
Jesus died, was buried, was resurrected and walked among men after his death.
He spoke, instantly appeared through locked doors, had the scars he received at his crucification, and ate real food with those in the upper room.
God is a Spirit and must be worshipped in spirit & truth. He is not constrained and not bound as we are to this earth.
If what I read about Jesus after his death is how he was also after his ascension, then we will be of the same. Not constrained to time, not bound to a place but will be completely free in our immortal, incorruptable, forms.
I truly believe we have zero concept nor even the best imaginings can reveal to us the form of God the Father, Jesus God the Son nor God the Holy Ghost !
Jesus died, was buried, was resurrected and walked among men after his death.
He spoke, instantly appeared through locked doors, had the scars he received at his crucification, and ate real food with those in the upper room.
God is a Spirit and must be worshipped in spirit & truth. He is not constrained and not bound as we are to this earth.
If what I read about Jesus after his death is how he was also after his ascension, then we will be of the same. Not constrained to time, not bound to a place but will be completely free in our immortal, incorruptable, forms.
I truly believe we have zero concept nor even the best imaginings can reveal to us the form of God the Father, Jesus God the Son nor God the Holy Ghost !
Or of ourselves in that day!
1 John 3:1-3 KJV
1) Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2) Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3) And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
Much love!
Sin nature isn't in scripture.
Natural man is.
The flesh is prone to sin because the things of the world are in relationship to the flesh.
Our God given soul links us to God eternally. Yet, because the world's influence is so great there's a barrier there. Because we're atunned to the material reality more than the spiritual eternity.
That's why God said natural man cannot understand the things of the spirit until God's spirit enters in. Which means, gets our attention to its presence since God is always there.
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Peter, James and John had a glimpse of the glory of Christ at the transfiguration. But the mortal eyes of the flesh cannot bear all the glory of Christ. When they seen the face of Christ shining as the sun, that was just what the mortal eyes could see without perishing.
But when we "shall be like Him" in our glorified bodies at the resurrection, we will see Him in all His glory. We can see Him through the immortal eyes. It will be breathtaking when we "see Him as He is" in all His glory.
1 Jn.5:15-18 (cxt )
This scripture is telling us about sin after we have become believers. We know that the Lord hears us when we pray and ask him things bc he told us he is our advocate and is always attuned to his children, his church, his bride.
IF, [ that 2 letter word is everywhere in scripture ] we should happen to see our brother sin a sin THAT IS NOT UNTO DEATH, ( spiritual ) then instead of condemnation we should ask in prayer and it will give him life.
All unrighteousness is SIN.
This scripture gets cut up and is misinterpeted so very nuch.
V.18. WE KNOW THAT WHOSOEVER IS BORN OF GOD SINNETH NOT, BUT HE THAT IS BEGOTTEN OF GOD ..........KEEPETH HIMSELF,.......
Ppl can yell & throw tantrums all day long but it doesnt change the true word of God!
How can we NOT sin ...............BY KEEPING ONESELF......
How do we do this ? By being led of and allowing the Holy Ghost full reign in our lives.
Now ppl can say they believe in sinless perfection but I have a hard time believing they actually do this related to the fact that we are still of the Adamic nature trying to be like our Saviours nature !
Paul said that he was carnal,sold under sin, for eventhough the law was spiritual and holy by the commandment it worked death in him. The commandment is good but as Jesus said if you see then you are no longer blind! We have instructions on repentance & confession to cover that or any sin in the sacrificial blood of the lamb.
This scripture is telling us about sin after we have become believers. We know that the Lord hears us when we pray and ask him things bc he told us he is our advocate and is always attuned to his children, his church, his bride.
IF, [ that 2 letter word is everywhere in scripture ] we should happen to see our brother sin a sin THAT IS NOT UNTO DEATH, ( spiritual ) then instead of condemnation we should ask in prayer and it will give him life.
All unrighteousness is SIN.
This scripture gets cut up and is misinterpeted so very nuch.
V.18. WE KNOW THAT WHOSOEVER IS BORN OF GOD SINNETH NOT, BUT HE THAT IS BEGOTTEN OF GOD ..........KEEPETH HIMSELF,.......
Ppl can yell & throw tantrums all day long but it doesnt change the true word of God!
How can we NOT sin ...............BY KEEPING ONESELF......
How do we do this ? By being led of and allowing the Holy Ghost full reign in our lives.
Now ppl can say they believe in sinless perfection but I have a hard time believing they actually do this related to the fact that we are still of the Adamic nature trying to be like our Saviours nature !
Paul said that he was carnal,sold under sin, for eventhough the law was spiritual and holy by the commandment it worked death in him. The commandment is good but as Jesus said if you see then you are no longer blind! We have instructions on repentance & confession to cover that or any sin in the sacrificial blood of the lamb.
I've found that anti-gospel proponents completely disregard the entire chapter but especially verse 18.
Their condemnation of the eternal salvation doctrine hinges on arguing the averse of verse 18.
That eternal salvation doctrine gives its believers a license to sin.
It use to shock me people could be committed as Jesus opponents while also shredding other Bible teachings.
Then someone reminded me of 1 Corinthians 2, and particularly verse 14.
They were right. That chapter gives right perspective to the anti-gospel proponents.
As God intended.
Davy
Well-Known Member
I've found that anti-gospel proponents completely disregard the entire chapter but especially verse 18.
Their condemnation of the eternal salvation doctrine hinges on arguing the averse of verse 18.
That eternal salvation doctrine gives its believers a license to sin.
It use to shock me people could be committed as Jesus opponents while also shredding other Bible teachings.
Then someone reminded me of 1 Corinthians 2, and particularly verse 14.
They were right. That chapter gives right perspective to the anti-gospel proponents.
As God intended.
Sounds like you misunderstand how some abuse the 1 John 5:18 verse, which that poster was trying to explain with Jesus being our Advocate to The Father for us.
It's those on the false doctrine of OSAS in the absolute sense that are guilty of abusing that 18th verse to try and say they cannot sin anymore. The 1 John 1 chapter by Apostle John showed that they can still do future sin though. So that 18th verse MUST be understood in relation to what John taught in 1 John 1 also. And this...
1 John 2:1
2 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
KJV
Now think how the devil could abuse that above verse also, along with the OSAS absolutist thinking. Easy, they would say that verse further proves there's no need to inspect ourselves for future sin, because Jesus, our Advocate, has already forgiven us! But that's not how John means that above 1 John 2:1 verse, because in 1 John 1 he showed we will... still have future sin, and we need to REPENT TO JESUS about it and ask Him forgiveness.
Why don't you go to Romans 5:12 and make a discovery? There is no need to worry about the exact phrase.
Well they have a half-baked theology. Those who have been saved by grace will be (a) perfected, (b) glorified, and (c) receive immortal and eternal "spiritual" bodies (in the sense that they are free from earthly limitations). Adam and Eve were in perfect human bodies (before the Fall) but nowhere near what God has in mind for His children.
Davy
Well-Known Member
That's where I disagree. Like Apostle Paul showed about the flesh in Romans 7, likewise, Adam and Eve's flesh had the 'potential' for sin already built in. Otherwise, they never could have sinned by their own will. And think what it would mean if Adam and Eve had not been allowed to be tempted and thus sin.
In God's Eternity, those in it will never be able to sin, because God said He will make us a joy (Isaiah 65:18). That is part of that idea of not remembering the things of this world. There won't be a second rebellion.
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This is a blessing. This post.
It demonstrates perfectly the anti-gospel natural man mindset.
That natural mind as God said, does not understand the things of the spirit because they are spiritually discerned. And this occurs when God's holy Spirit enters those who are his.
And this has purpose;God's.Who said,as Jesus and when asked by his disciples why he taught the gospel in parables, because his words were not meant to be understood by everyone,else they repent and be saved.
That design is extant today as well. God's will and word is eternal.
Those who disfigure the gospel don't,and will not understand even after this, that Jesus died taking the sins of the world upon himself. He didn't take the sins in the world because then sin would not exist anymore.
He took the sins of the world. That those who believe in him are redeemed from their sins. Those sins being put under his blood that flowed from the cross so to wash us clean from what would otherwise be our sin debt to God with our blood.
That sacrifice guarantees , seals as a promise from God, eternal life for the believer.And eternal life is eternal salvation.
Because those natural minded ones are currently dead in their sins.The first death.
And when they die unredeemed from their sins, they die the second death that kills the body and the soul.
Those redeemed in Christ are eternally alive in Christ.
And all this is not our doing.
So we cannot boast,nor work to achieve salvation.
It is God's free irrevocable gift of grace he gives to we whom he calls to himself. And that he paid for by sealing the salvific covenant with his blood.
And because we are indwelt by God's holy spirit and understand the good news, we do not make a habit of sinning. Thinking we can do whatever we like now because we'll never go to hell.
Natural minds don't get that.
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