The Ten Commandments—What happened?
- Thread starter BarneyFife
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You LIE that <Paul said the Law was “ useless”—- it has no Power>. And by your very own admittance you prove your dung a LIE, for Paul said, "The Law was given so that sin might increase” -- WHICH SHOWS YOU THE POWER THE LAW BECAUSE IT IS THE WORD OF GOD, DOES HAVE! Indeed the same Law of God makes your whole remonstrance HERE, sin! God invested the Law of His Word with the power to make it sin - power you wished you had yourself to nullify God's Law with. You don't have it! Will never have it! Cannot ever have it, because you are a transgressor of God's LAW-OF-USEFUL-POWER.
The Scriptures which you quote do not have bearing on whether an <old covenant> is of force or not. Your 'question', <What has the old (covenant) to do with us?> is a farce BECAUSE <us>- WE-, ARE the 'old covenant'! Your and my SELF-RIGHTEOUSNESS IS, the so-called 'old covenant'. GOD NEVER CLOSED AN 'OLD' COVENANT. The very idea of God's ONLY, ETERNAL Covenant of Grace as having grown 'old' is blasphemous heresy.
Today, 29 August 2020, is "the day The Seventh Day Sabbath of the LORD your GOD" the Holy Spirit testifies to in Holy Scripture.
Absolutely there is which makes great difference towards a deeper understanding of the SELFSAME WORDS OF GOD epitomised in God the Son having raised from the dead : "Thy Law o God I came to magnify!"
'Love' an empty tinkling rusted jam tin from the 21st century clinking LIES like <<in Acts 15 that the Law of Moses was not being imposed over the gentiles>>.
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
Exactly! <<Only Israel covenanted with God to keep His Law.>> Like only Adam and Eve were standing there and BROKE God's Covenant of Grace He with Divine Love made with them. Because man's "undertaking", "promise", "oath", "COVENANT", "FAITHFULNESS" has always been futile, unworthy of God's Grace and Love and "FAITHFULNESS".
When man, whether Adam or Israel of Canaanite or CHRISTIAN or you or I, <stand there> and swear .. <<covenanting with God to keep His Law>>, itself, is the guarantee it is <the old covenant> for what it is worth being <only> Israel / man / Marks / GerhardEbersoehn who <<covenanted with God to keep His Law>> and FAILED, EVER failed!
That is the Law <<"naturalized" into Israel>> BY SIN; that, is NOT God who covenanted that He would through Jesus Christ keep true to untrue Israel and all men <<who were "naturalized" into Israel>> BY SIN! God's Covenant is NOTHING BUT GRACE— the forgiveness of the sum-total of man's contribution to his Salvation, his wayward UNFAITHFULNESS TO THE ONLY REDEEMER GOD.
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You are saved by grace alone through faith alone...Amen! Well stated.
unto following the law (i.e. the Sermon on the Mount, the Sermon on the Plain)
No, I do not believe that the Patriarchs that I mentioned, ever in Scripture, cited the words Messiah, anointed one, saviour, or even the principle. David did, of course, and those after him. Maybe Moses and Joshua due to their concern and prediction about the Israelites falling away, I would have to look this up. Either way, the Abrahamic Covenant that was also stipulated to Issac and Jacob, did not impart the principle of redemption and a saviour, especially a suffering Messiah, of which faith in him lead to salvation.
"as many as are of the works of the Law" -- Who are they? Galatians 3:6-9, "6Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. 7Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. 8And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. 9So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham. 10For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them."
Again, WHO are "as many as are of the works of the Law" -- Who are they? The answer is written: "FOR... every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the Law to do them .. are of the works of the Law"! They are those “not of faith”!
Not your popular LIE but quite the opposite!
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That is not what it says.
It says that as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse...the curse being that if they don't continue in everything written in the book of the law to do it, they are cursed.
The reality is that those who are of the works of the law are those who trust in their law-keeping to save them. In this, they are now required to keep the law perfectly from conception into eternity, according to Galatians 3:10, James 2:10, Matthew 5:48.
The only way into heaven is to place your trust in Jesus Christ and what He did for you on the Cross...His shed blood (Romans 3:25, Romans 5:1, Romans 5:9).
ChristisGod
Well-Known Member
That is a very good point, Genesis 3:15. But, that was a concealed mystery until the time of Christ. Retrospectively, after the advent of Christ, it becomes somewhat clear, but again, this principle was never declared, intimated, or alluded to, by the Patriarchs. The prophets, yes, the Patriarchs no. Meaning, the prophets foreshadowed the New Law that was to come. Prior to that, the Old Covenant was in place starting from Moses. Faith was accounted to Abraham as righteousness, but not faith in the same principle as we must believe in today.
You are confusing faith as intrinsically meaning Christ. It doesn't, faith that saves is believing in whatever God tells you to believe in, at that specific time.
Hebrews 11:6-6
11:6. And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him.
All the following passages, and the ones I omitted for brevity, are referring to a glorifying faith, outside of Christ.
Hebrews 11:7-19
11:7. By faith Noah, being warned by God about things not yet seen, in reverence prepared an ark for the salvation of his household, by which he condemned the world, and became an heir of the righteousness which is according to faith. 8. By faith Abraham, when he was called, obeyed by going out to a place which he was to receive for an inheritance; and he went out, not knowing where he was going. 9. By faith he lived as an alien in the land of promise, as in a foreign land, dwelling in tents with Isaac and Jacob, fellow heirs of the same promise; 10. for he was looking for the city which has foundations, whose architect and builder is God. 11. By faith even Sarah herself received ability to conceive, even beyond the proper time of life, since she considered Him faithful who had promised. 12. Therefore there was born even of one man, and him as good as dead at that, as many descendants AS THE STARS OF HEAVEN IN NUMBER, AND INNUMERABLE AS THE SAND WHICH IS BY THE SEASHORE. 13. All these died in faith, without receiving the promises, but having seen them and having welcomed them from a distance, and having confessed that they were strangers and exiles on the earth. 14. For those who say such things make it clear that they are seeking a country of their own. 15. And indeed if they had been thinking of that country from which they went out, they would have had opportunity to return. 16. But as it is, they desire a better country, that is, a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God; for He has prepared a city for them. 17. By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises was offering up his only begotten son; 18. it was he to whom it was said, "IN ISAAC YOUR DESCENDANTS SHALL BE CALLED." 19. He considered that God is able to raise people even from the dead, from which he also received him back as a type.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Long standing misconception.
The specifics get pretty long. And if you want to go into the specifics we can do that, but here ya go.
1. The number of the summery of laws given at Mount Sinai were 14, not ten. Exodus chapter 20. God never called these the Ten Commandments. They are a short summary of the laws that are fully defined in the main body of laws. There are 613 Mosaic Laws and it is sacrilegious to subdivide them.
2. The commandments that God actually called the Ten Commandments and told Moses to write them on the tablets are stated in Exodus 34:10-28
Of course then Paul explains in a couple dozen scriptures that we are no part of the Law. Pointing out that there is no salvation in them and describing them as a ministry of death. And if you look to them as a guide to righteousness you are severed from Christ and have fallen from grace. You cannot be in two covenants.
As the storyline of Acts goes it can be seen that one of Paul's major challenges was the judaizers that wanted to bring the Mosaic Law into Christianity and it is the reason for the first Christian Council in Jerusalem.
Beyond that there are a few strict Jewish laws that are stated in the summery of laws stated at Mt. Sinai that Christians do not observe.
Graven images...statues, paintings, pictures, and television.
We do not keep the Sabbath...the Jewish Sabbath is Saturday.
Covet....our wives are not our property.
...
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Then they would have to include the commandments that are spoken of in Romans 13:8-10 (kjv). Do they?
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
As I said, they are a summary of some of the Laws in the 613 Mosaic Laws. Short form. Paul quotes a short form of a short form for the discussion that he was pointing out that they are all summed up with, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. Christ's moral teachings are vastly superiors to anything in the OT. From a Christian stand point there are list of issues with the Mosaic Laws and Christ pointed some of them out.
I believe that the ones given in Exodus 20 and Deuteronomy 5 are the ten spoken of in Exodus 34:28. If you look at it closely, you will see that these were the ones written on the tablets (Deuteronomy 5:22).
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