The tree of the knowledge of good and evil?

[quietthinker]

ah, why do you say this? The Hebrews were bothered by Moses' countenance?

Yes, it glowed when he came from the presence of God. It freaked the masses out. He had to cover his face with a veil.
And so Jesus veiled his glory and came in the likeness of sinful flesh so that we might be changed into his glory.

 

[quietthinker]

Yes. I've read this outline before. Countless times. What a shame the woman and the man ate of the tree and disobeyed God. If man could just turn back time and do it differently, then none of us would suffer. If I am being honest here is the problem I have with this constant fight of man to maintain a position of authority and sovereign over his own life. Consider the countless verses where the Lord said: You don't choose me, I choose you. NO man comes to God unless the Father draws him. The Father chooses so that no flesh can boast. "My sheep hear my voice".

We are in "the valley of decision right now "Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision. How can it be a "decision" when it has already been written what the decision is. You do whatever you like...but from here forth I give up that man is all sovereign and that fight to maintain "choice". God reigns. God decides. God chooses. God put the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the garden because it was the Father's will for His children to go into bondage and to become the image of His Son. Christ tasted of the fruit of death in my place. He reigns as King...the decision maker. The boldest argument begins in Genesis and so the decision of every man(and woman)… who is sovereign and in control? MAN or GOD? Which position will you argue? For man to maintain his freewill or surrender to it beginning with God's will be done on earth as it is in heaven. As others said here: the tree of the knowledge of good and evil was there for a decision but not just for Adam and Eve but for the rest of all mankind: does mankind reserve his right (freewill) to eat of the tree or surrender that first decision ever made of mankind to God? Mankind will most likely still argue his position and right of choice. what is the decision for Adam and Eve in the garden? Do as God commands...or to choose? The way that leads to death is man’s choice. The way that leads to life is God’s choice. We have seen both outcomes because He has clearly shown it.

God knows the outcome, thats his prerogative, we don't, thats our limitation. We must be proactive in staying connected to the vine. Presumption is not faith and if we assume it is it will kill us.

 

[bbyrd009]

Yes, it glowed when he came from the presence of God. It freaked the masses out. He had to cover his face with a veil.
And so Jesus veiled his glory and came in the likeness of sinful flesh so that we might be changed into his glory.

hmm, dint he cover his face bc the glow faded?

It freaked the masses out.

if you would Quote this ty

 

[bbyrd009]

God created the tree, so it cannot be evil.

prolly a better concept is that it reps evil, as has maybe been said?

 

[quietthinker]

hmm, dint he cover his face bc the glow faded?

if you would Quote this ty

You will find the information in Exodus 34:29-35 but as always, read the build up and continuance of the story to get the context.

 

[Uisdean]

Do you realize what you are saying?
I don't like tossing out single verse quotes, but here are two quick quotes (NIV) that I think are necessary because Y'All sound like you're bordering on heresy. You scare me.
Job 34:10
“So listen to me, you men of understanding. Far be it from God to do evil, from the Almighty to do wrong.
James 1:13
When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone;

I have been discussing this in the "CAN SATAN CREATE" thread and I don't want to copy all that to this one.
But I am going to offer this as an absolute: God did not and does not and never will create anything evil. The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil was "good" as was the Tree of Life. Evil is the choice to disobey God. Disobedience = Evil. Your reaction to that is proof that it is true. Also, substitute 'evil' for 'disobedience' and 'disobedience' for 'evil' in the Scriptures. Does the meaning change?

Honestly, I'm not trained in Theology. I still have trouble understanding a lot of Theology. But this I do get. God will not put up with evil/disobedience. When you see something in the Bible ( or anywhere ) that you do not understand, it is because you "see through a glass darkly" and not because God is mean. Believe me when I say that God loves you. You are His creation. He is not going to put trees or anything else in your garden so that He can catch you doing wrong.

I know why C. S. Lewis put the White Witch in Narnia. I do not know why God allowed The Snake into Eden. But in all of this I have faith and trust Him. That may seem simple-minded. Perhaps, one day, God will show me that answer. Until then, I trust Him. I am tempted all day long and I find God tossing things in the way of my desire to sin. I keep asking Him to do that. But He started doing it before I asked.

Y'All have fun with this thread. But be careful.

Rejoice Always.

 

[Enoch111]

But I am going to offer this as an absolute: God did not and does not and never will create anything evil.

Agreed.

The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil was "good" as was the Tree of Life.

Perhaps not "good" or "bad" but simply dangerous to approach. Having been warned, Adam could have easily put a barrier around this tree with a warning notice which said "DANGER" (probably in Hebrew). It would appear that he was rather negligent throughout.

 

[Uisdean]

Agreed.

Perhaps not "good" or "bad" but simply dangerous to approach. Having been warned, Adam could have easily put a barrier around this tree with a warning notice which said "DANGER" (probably in Hebrew). It would appear that he was rather negligent throughout.

Yeah. So why does Eve get the criticism? When I read St. Paul saying that I should love my wife as Christ loved the Church I think of Adam standing by while his wife disobeys God; and I pray that I never do that.

BTW, God seems to have given Adam and Eve a warning, but not such a warning as to draw curiosity. It was The Snake that drew their attention to the Tree. God said, in a way, "The fruit on that tree is not ripe. Don't eat it." That is like my GrandPa telling me not to eat a Persimmon until after the frost. But my Mom said it would turn my mouth inside out. That drew attention to the Persimmon. Fortunately, I did not know what one looked like or I would have tasted it. Curiosity and all that. Why do people want to make the Tree to be bad or evil? Let's be honest, the evil/badness/disobedience came from The Snake, Adam and Eve. Everything in the Garden was Good. Except for them. Why is that so difficult to accept?

 

[bbyrd009]

But I am going to offer this as an absolute:

that is eating from the tree of knowledge right there, i guess; regardless of the fact that your statement is surely also wrong, what is more impactful to you is that you will not be able to see how, bc you have decided upon an Absolute Truth, and so by definition anything that disagrees with it will not be heard. If you notice, your Quotes do not support your assertion. Commit is not create, right.

I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things

does not depend upon your or Enoch's opinions for It's validity, see.
No one is saying that God commits evil

 

[bbyrd009]

Adam could have easily put a barrier around this tree with a warning notice which said "DANGER" (probably in Hebrew).

yes, with his pencil right, i mean c'mon Enoch, who would be reading this sign, in Hebrew, that has not even evolved yet?

i appreciate y'alls examples of eating from the tree, it was very helpful imo

 

[bbyrd009]

Why do you think that is? The tree is never mentioned as being in the city or in the new creation.

well bc those in the city do not pretend to knowledge of good and evil!

i think what i'm saying there is that they do not judge by appearances, but by the fruit, the results. This obv sets up a dichotomy, as we feel it necessary to judge in the moment, before the results are apparent, right. But we are talking about judging others here i think, not about whether we should necessarily engage ourselves. Iow just bc Eskimos live on whale blubber doesn't mean you have to, but you also do not need to judge whether it is good or bad of itself.

 

[bbyrd009]

You will find the information in Exodus 34:29-35 but as always, read the build up and continuance of the story to get the context.

ok ty, now that i'm over that hump i might have another Q there, still trying to get your response in context as an answer to Enoch back there

 

[Taken]

Whatever the fruit may have been (and it definitely was not apples) the act of eating the fruit IN VIOLATION OF GOD'S COMMANDMENT was the evil deed. That tree was "a tree of testing". And both Adam and Eve failed the test.

The knowledge of good and evil became a reality as soon as there was disobedience.

DISOBEDIENCE = KNOWLEDGE OF EVIL
OBEDIENCE = KNOWLEDGE OF GOOD

And because Adam and Eve experienced the knowledge of evil, they did three things:

1. They hid themselves from God
2. They covered their nakedness with aprons of fig leaves
3. They blamed others for their own sins.

Agree.

The knowledge presented in Genesis;
1) God created man and woman, outside of Gods Garden and gave them one name; Adam.
2) God then placed put them in His Garden.

(A foreshadow;
God created the heavens; His Estate. Out from God, came God, and God put Himself on Earth, to teach man, while always remaining with Himself, and His Essence and Name, One Lord God Almighty.)

3) God was with Adam, teaching him, directing him.
4) The consequence for not following Gods direction was revealed to Adam.

(To note;
The time Adam was in the Garden appears to be "short".
The time mankind is a mortal on Earth is "short".

Adam's direction was TO eat of "every" Tree in the Garden....with ONE prohibition...
"ONE"!!!

Also in the Garden was The Tree of Life.
The Tree of Life IS precisely what God was "giving" Adam...ie Gods Word of Knowledge,
Which was ALL "Good and pure Truth".

When Adam chose TO; STOP receiving ALL of Gods Good Knowledge only (by choosing to Eat the fruit of a Tree that Also contained Evil Knowledge)...Adam became banished from Gods Garden.

As Adam was being prepared (with Clothing, provided, animals skins, prepared by God)...
Adam had one last moment to reach out and "Take" the fruit from the Tree of Life and Eat.
But he didn't.

This is also a foreshadow;
A natural man can hear the Word of God, called by the Name Jesus.
A man can Choose to Eat up The Word of God, (and Continue in mans short life-span Eating the Word of God,) (or not).

Like with Adam...The Good knowledge was freely given Adam.

Like with Adam...The Good Fruit of the Knowledge...is man Choice To Reach out and Take the Fruit and Consume it.

A man Who Chooses To "Reach out and Take" the Fruit and Consume The Fruit of The Tree of Life, IS the same man WHO, is choosing To Eat Gods Word FOREVER; and Become Converted and Transformed FOREVER With God. Which is precisely a man; Electing;
TO be forever with God in;
His Garden, His Kingdom, His renewed Earth, His PLACE of Glory (LIGHT), His PLACE of Goodness and Truth.

So Why was there there a Tree of Good and Evil in the Garden?

Because there WAS a Tree of Life in the Garden, of Pure Goodness.

And Because mankind was created with the ability To Make choices....mankind was given Knowledge of opposite things From which to Make his own Freewill choices.

The Awesome revelation of God IS;
Even though mankind is subject To the knowledge of Good and Evil...and he might be overcome with temptations of evil....The Tree of Life IS everywhere that a man can Reach out and Take the Fruit from THAT Tree and become Forgiven and Forever Live By, Through and With God.

And to mention as impressed IN Scriptures... To not dally in making ones choice...
A mans natural (blood) life is Short, and you never know on which day the Lord shall require your life (blood). But what a man should know IS God requires the (blood) Life of Every man...Gen 9:5

And physically dead men know nothing, can CHOOSE nothing.... Ecc 9:5

The lesson IS; hear the Knowledge, learn the knowledge, Trust God, whether or not you yet understand the knowledge....and Make your choice....before your appointment with physical death arrives....
(That He shall then...Put you In His Kingdom!)

Because IF you have not chosen Him....you shall forever be Without Him...Matt 12:30

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Uisdean]

that is eating from the tree of knowledge right there, i guess; regardless of the fact that your statement is surely also wrong, what is more impactful to you is that you will not be able to see how, bc you have decided upon an Absolute Truth, and so by definition anything that disagrees with it will not be heard. If you notice, your Quotes do not support your assertion. Commit is not create, right.

I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things

does not depend upon your or Enoch's opinions for It's validity, see.
No one is saying that God commits evil

Yes, you are saying that God commits evil.
Carefully read this:
What you are refusing to understand is that Evil is not a thing that is created; it is motive. Evil is the absence of Good. Evil is Disobedience. No one can commit evil and be obedient to God. Therefore, God did not create Evil.God does not commit Evil. This is an Absolute Truth. If it is not true, then why would we need Jesus?

 

[bbyrd009]

This is an Absolute Truth.

Or a damned lie, imo i would let Scripture decide

God did not create Evil

Evil is not a thing that is created

Ok now if you will carefully read this, or ignore It entirely, i do not care:
I form the light and create darkness; I make peace and create evil: I am the LORD that does all this.
I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil. I am Jehovah, that doeth all these things.
I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil; I am the LORD, that doeth all these things.

so wadr i would ask you to respond to the Scripture and nevermind me, my opinion does not matter either,
but hopefully you see that your present response is "that Scripture is not true."

So if you have some dialectic interpretation that is eluding me, i am all ears ok, but i accept the standard interp there i think, that God created evil by separating from it, or however one might like to put it.

But if you still want to believe that God does not create evil, that is ok with me ok, i don't think your motives are bad here or anything, imo you are just caught in one of many deterministic loops

If it is not true, then why would we need Jesus?

how bout we stick with one hairball at a time lol, no offense.
If that is true then why would God need satan is prolly more pertinent

 

[GodsGrace]

Matthew 7:17-19
[17] Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. [18] A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. [19] Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

Genesis 2:9
[9] And out of the ground made the Lord God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

Genesis 3:5-6
[5] For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. [6] And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

Was the tree of the knowledge of good and evil ....a good tree or an evil tree? The tree grew fruit because Adam and Eve ate of it. Was the fruit from the tree...evil fruit or good fruit?

The tree of the K of G and E was both, thus the name.
The fruit of that tree was evil fruit.

God had created A and E good; everything He created in the Garden He declared to be good. So...A and E already knew the GOOD. They had no evil in them.

But the tree had both good in it AND evil in it. Since they already knew the good, God told them not to eat of the fruit because then they would also know the evil. They DID eat of the fruit so then they became knowledgeable of both good (which they already had) and evil, which they acquired by eating the forbidden fruit.

God did not want them to experience evil...He did warn them. They disobeyed God and now had both good and evil in them.

 

[bbyrd009]

The tree of the K of G and E was both, thus the name.
The fruit of that tree was evil fruit.

God had created A and E good; everything He created in the Garden He declared to be good. So...A and E already knew the GOOD. They had no evil in them.

But the tree had both good in it AND evil in it. Since they already knew the good, God told them not to eat of the fruit because then they would also know the evil. They DID eat of the fruit so then they became knowledgeable of both good (which they already had) and evil, which they acquired by eating the forbidden fruit.

God did not want them to experience evil...He did warn them. They disobeyed God and now had both good and evil in them.

i think i like this anyway, lol. Not sure the tree had any good or evil in it per se, it was a tree of knowledge. But some interesting perspectives here no less, ty

 

[GodsGrace]

i think i like this anyway, lol. Not sure the tree had any good or evil in it per se, it was a tree of knowledge. But some interesting perspectives here no less, ty

OK. But think of this, or maybe you have.
Everything falls into one or the other category...it's either Good or its Evil.
Nothing falls inbetween. I can't think of anything that is neutral...
Can you??

 

[Helen]

But...they were told NOT to eat of the Tree of the Knowledge of GOOD and evil.

So...Good is not what God desired for them...God desired LIFE , and the Tree of...for them.

To this day we are still eating of the Good.. of the tree of knowledge. Good is the wisdom of man...Life is the wisdom of God.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

View attachment 3966

But...they were told NOT to eat of the Tree of the Knowledge of GOOD and evil.

So...Good is not what God desired for them...God desired LIFE , and the Tree of...for them.

To this day we are still eating of the Good.. of the tree of knowledge. Good is the wisdom of man...Life is the wisdom of God.

Good point. Now I’m confused again.