The tree of the knowledge of good and evil?

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Uisdean

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Don't be confused: Take a deep breath; read several different translations of Genesis chapter 2 & 3. As you read it, think about the entire Bible. Ask God to open the scriptures. Compare what the different translations say. Check the meaning of words in Strong's.

@bbyrd009 I have been saying from the start that I define Evil as Disobedience. I know what Isaiah 47 says. What I understand from you is that you mistake true Evil, which is rebellion and disobedience, from the human perspective of things we dislike and call evil. Evil: that is rebellion and disobedience is a lack, an absence, of The Good. Lucifer was created Good. He rebelled against The Good. So he lacks Goodness.
I am running late and can't finish this. I hope you understand what I am trying to say. I feel certain that you are worried that I think God did not create everything. What I am suggesting is the only way I know to reconcile The Goodness of God with the existence of Evil.

Rejoice Always
 

quietthinker

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ok ty, now that i'm over that hump i might have another Q there, still trying to get your response in context as an answer to Enoch back there
just bouncing off the three points Enoch made. :)
 

Enoch111

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But...they were told NOT to eat of the Tree of the Knowledge of GOOD and evil. So...Good is not what God desired for them...God desired LIFE , and the Tree of...for them.
"The knowledge of good and evil" would be produced through disobedience. What that would imply is that having disobeyed and discovered the meaning of evil (the loss of innocence and the defilement of sin, produced by listening to Satan), they would then reflect on what was good (their perfect existence in Eden prior to their disobedience).

For God, abundant life and eternal life are bound up with goodness (righteousness), so we cannot say that "Good is not what God desired for them".

For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost. (Rom 14:17).
 
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Kristen Davis

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Matthew 7:17-19
[17] Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. [18] A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. [19] Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

Genesis 2:9
[9] And out of the ground made the Lord God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

Genesis 3:5-6
[5] For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. [6] And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

Was the tree of the knowledge of good and evil ....a good tree or an evil tree? The tree grew fruit because Adam and Eve ate of it. Was the fruit from the tree...evil fruit or good fruit?

Yes in Genesis God teaches us that the idea behind the apple tree in the Garden of Eden is obedience. Obedience allows us to take fruit from the tree of life that
If you wish to look at it in reverse. So here is how Adam and Eve could have been thinking.

1. Had we obeyed God we would not be hiding from Him.
2. Had we obeyed God we would not be ashamed of our nakedness.
3. Had we obeyed God we would not be assigning blame for our disobedience to others.

Actually God makes us responsible for judging the goodness or the evil of everything that surrounds us, as well as what is within us.

GOD SAYS: Who will rise up for me against the evildoers? or who will stand up for me against the workers of iniquity? (Ps 94:16)

EPHESIANS 5
8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:
9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth)
10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.
11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.
13 But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.
14 Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.
15 See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise,
16 Redeeming the time, because the days are evil.
17 Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is.
The good words of Ephesians we must walk circumspectly because evil is right around the corner, god does not tolerate idols or rivals. Be not unwise walking as children do being tossed to and fro from the word of truth.
 

Enoch111

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Yeah. So why does Eve get the criticism?
While Adam was blameworthy in many ways, Eve was not entirely innocent. And that is why she gets the criticism.

1. She knew exactly what God had said, but modified His actual words to open the way for disobedience.

2. She knew who God was, and what He had given the first human pair, yet she willingly had a dialogue with the Serpent (the Dragon), instead of simply walking away, or going one step further and rebuking him.

3. She wanted to delve into something which was forbidden, and allowed all of her selfish desires (actually the three lusts) to direct her on to the wrong path. In other words, she was willingly deceived.

4. Not only did she blatantly disobey God, but she enticed her husband to become her accomplice in *crime*.

5. When confronted with her sin by God, she failed to ask forgiveness, but transferred blame to the Serpent.

In any event, because Adam was ultimately responsible for Eve as well as himself, and he knowingly disobeyed God (not under deception), he is the one who is held responsible for bringing the curse of sin and death upon the human race, as well as the curse on creation.
 

Helen

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For God, abundant life and eternal life are bound up with goodness (righteousness), so we cannot say that "Good is not what God desired for them".

You maybe can't. But I can!!
I cannot agree with you. They were either told NOT to eat of the Tree or they were told it was fine to eat from the Tree???
So even the "good part " of the The Tree of the Knowledge Good and Evil...was forbidden to them. If they ate it , it would have consequences ....they ate...and man was cursed with thinking and believing that what he judged as good was indeed good.

Only in and by The Holy Spirit can we judge clearly as to what is Life and what is death to us.

But, never mind...you own mind is already made up about the good of the Tree being actually good!! o_O ( even though they were told not to eat of the Tree )
 
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Enoch111

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Many people who believe the Garden of Eden was located somewhere in the Near East suggest that the true forbidden fruit was not an apple, but a pomegranate.
Others believe it was a tomato.
Some Muslims believe that it was a banana.
Not that it matters, I guess.
Chances are that tree wiped out immediately. Perhaps that tree was destroyed after Adam and Eve were driven out of Eden, since only the tree of life is mentioned at that time. So nothing today would resemble its fruit.
 

Uisdean

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Yes in Genesis God teaches us that the idea behind the apple tree in the Garden of Eden is obedience. Obedience allows us to take fruit from the tree of life that

Praise God!!! Somebody understands this! Kirsten, Thanks so very much for this.

God told Adam that the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil was forbidden. NOT because of anything to do with the tree, but because God desires our obedience. He requires our obedience because He LOVES us and knows what is best for us. It is most likely that the knowledge gained by eating the fruit was knowledge gained through the act of obedience or through the act of disobedience.

The Bible is about Obedience to God. Throughout the Bible you find people in disobedience and His Prophets begging the people to obey Him. The only way you can please God is to obey Him. That is why accepting Jesus is so very important. There is no way you can obey God without Jesus.

It is NOT the TREE that is GOOD or EVIL. It is our response to God that is either GOOD or EVIL.

Rejoice Always!!!
 
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Uisdean

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While Adam was blameworthy in many ways, Eve was not entirely innocent. And that is why she gets the criticism.

1. She knew exactly what God had said, but modified His actual words to open the way for disobedience.

2. She knew who God was, and what He had given the first human pair, yet she willingly had a dialogue with the Serpent (the Dragon), instead of simply walking away, or going one step further and rebuking him.

3. She wanted to delve into something which was forbidden, and allowed all of her selfish desires (actually the three lusts) to direct her on to the wrong path. In other words, she was willingly deceived.

4. Not only did she blatantly disobey God, but she enticed her husband to become her accomplice in *crime*.

5. When confronted with her sin by God, she failed to ask forgiveness, but transferred blame to the Serpent.

In any event, because Adam was ultimately responsible for Eve as well as himself, and he knowingly disobeyed God (not under deception), he is the one who is held responsible for bringing the curse of sin and death upon the human race, as well as the curse on creation.

Yeah. I know. I was attempting sarcasm. I should have added an Emoji? :rolleyes: This one? What's the best way to signify a sarcastic comment?
 

Episkopos

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You you can't. But I can.
I cannot agree with you. They were either told NOT to eat of the Tree or they were told it was fine to eat from the Tree???
So even the "good part " of the The Tree of the Knowledge Good and Evil...was forbidden to them. If they ate it , it would have consequences ....they ate...and man was cursed with thinking and believing that what he judged as good was indeed good.

Only in and by The Holy Spirit can we judge clearly as to what is Life and what is death to us.

But, never mind...you own mind is already made up about the good of the Tree being actually good!! o_O ( even though they were told not to eat of the Tree )


Amen! It "looked" good to eat....but there is a a way that "seems" right unto a man ....but it is the way of death.
 

Heart2Soul

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Amen! It "looked" good to eat....but there is a a way that "seems" right unto a man ....but it is the way of death.
I just replied to a comment on another thread and I brought up the fact that God is Omnipotent and Omniscience and already knew what the outcome of putting that tree in the garden would be.
 
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Episkopos

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I just replied to a comment on another thread and I brought up the fact that God is Omnipotent and Omniscience and already knew what the outcome of putting that tree in the garden would be.


Given that we have free choice....and no knowledge of cause and effect (at first) in spiritual terms...I think the fall was inevitable. Add to that the ruses of the devil...who really doesn't respect us humans.
 

GodsGrace

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Good point. Now I’m confused again.
Don't be confused.

Adam and Eve were the first man and woman.
God made them good...they already had the good.
God told them not to eat of the tree so that they would not know evil.

After them, every man that was born, was born with the sin nature. We all have some good in us (contrary to what calvinists believe) and we all have some bad in us, and in this way we get both from the tree of knowledge - we have both the good knowledge and the evil knowledge.

@"ByGrace" spoke of God wanting life for them also. Originally He did. They had preternatural gifts...but they lost this when they ate and then, as we all know, they lost the gift of immortality and were kept from eating of the Tree of Life so that they would not live forever in a state of sin and misery.
 

bbyrd009

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OK. But think of this, or maybe you have.
Everything falls into one or the other category...it's either Good or its Evil.
Nothing falls inbetween. I can't think of anything that is neutral...
Can you??
i can't think of a single thing that is not neutral, but see what we are talking about is a perspective shift, no "things" have been altered in the least. If you wanna pose an example, we could play with it a little and the point might become clearer, i guess it's hard to believe that good and evil are completely subjective when applied to things, or that you cannot serve others until this is understood, i don't think
 

bbyrd009

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Good point. Now I’m confused again.
ah that is perfect, then you are saved, see, if you can admit that you do not know. All are deceived, right.
he who says he knows does not yet know as he ought. So, with apologies to all of the knowledgeable answers you may have gotten to this in the interim, my vote for judge goes to you :)

we have been raised as determinists, ok, and determinism can be very useful, it's how you get to the moon, etc, though what you're gonna do once you get there i dunno, but then i am confused. Anyway, imo you are a naturally more dialectic thinker, most women are i guess, and that is what this is really about imo. Seeing that there may be other valid perspectives that even clash with yours (which btw the Bible will even teach one, if they open at page 1 and read without human help for a while at first, just like It says).

strangely enough, even "serving others" can be a very evil pursuit, as it turns out
 

bbyrd009

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Don't be confused: Take a deep breath; read several different translations of Genesis chapter 2 & 3. As you read it, think about the entire Bible. Ask God to open the scriptures. Compare what the different translations say. Check the meaning of words in Strong's.

@bbyrd009 I have been saying from the start that I define Evil as Disobedience. I know what Isaiah 47 says. What I understand from you is that you mistake true Evil, which is rebellion and disobedience, from the human perspective of things we dislike and call evil. Evil: that is rebellion and disobedience is a lack, an absence, of The Good. Lucifer was created Good. He rebelled against The Good. So he lacks Goodness.
I am running late and can't finish this. I hope you understand what I am trying to say. I feel certain that you are worried that I think God did not create everything. What I am suggesting is the only way I know to reconcile The Goodness of God with the existence of Evil.

Rejoice Always
i understand that you are a good (no pun intended) hearted person who seeks to be approved, and has been raised to reason logically. So instead of completely destroying your argument with Scripture interpreted from a dialectic pov to make a very important point, and making an enemy in the process, like i guess i've done to a few other quite decent people here, i think i'm going to try a different tack for awhile. Pretty sure i do understand what you are trying to say, that rebellion and disobedience are evil, yes. So why did God create evil and satan then, again? Your reply might help me see a way to proceed here, ty
 

bbyrd009

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You you can't. But I can.
I cannot agree with you. They were either told NOT to eat of the Tree or they were told it was fine to eat from the Tree???
So even the "good part " of the The Tree of the Knowledge Good and Evil...was forbidden to them. If they ate it , it would have consequences ....they ate...and man was cursed with thinking and believing that what he judged as good was indeed good.

Only in and by The Holy Spirit can we judge clearly as to what is Life and what is death to us.

But, never mind...you own mind is already made up about the good of the Tree being actually good!! o_O ( even though they were told not to eat of the Tree )
ya, it's a Tree of Knowledge, right, there is no "good" or "evil" involved in the tree whatsoever.

"Knowledge" means "mind made up" right
 

bbyrd009

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Many people who believe the Garden of Eden was located somewhere in the Near East suggest that the true forbidden fruit was not an apple, but a pomegranate.

Others believe it was a tomato.

Some Muslims believe that it was a banana.

Not that it matters, I guess.
thank God ppl who say they know have mouths, so that the rest of us may be warned, huh
 
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