Mattathias
Member
Power and authority.
To those who didn’t believe Jesus, it meant Jesus was making himself something they thought he wasn’t - the Messiah their/his God had promised to raise up from among them.
The Trinity definition
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Power and authority.
To those who didn’t believe Jesus, it meant Jesus was making himself something they thought he wasn’t - the Messiah their/his God had promised to raise up from among them.
who is your literal Father whom you trace your lineage ?
is seeing you the exact same as seeing the Father in heaven ?
are you the exact same representation of the Fathers nature, being ?
do all things exist in you ?
are you before all things that exist ?
did you create all things ?
are you the one of a kind, unique(monogenes) Son of God ?
You are utterly confused mate. You make an introductory salutation by Peter to his audience, as the main message. The message that Yahshua is Christ and also YHWH. This would be an earth shattering statement to his audience and they would definitely dismiss anything else he would say from that point on. He would be unbelievable, as you are the same.
So you really believe this is what Peter was saying to those that always knew YHWH as their Father and Christ was their Saviour, subordinate to his Father? Why do you persist in twisting the meaning of scripture?
Then you proceed to add in a baseless foundation for your unique un-scriptural claim by adding in Greek versions of the key terms you want to mount on your alter of worship for all too see...this does not make it true at all by expanding on a lie. Looks impressive although this foundation does not float, and it sinks like a heavy weight around it and your neck as well.
You see 1 Peter 1:1 has specific meaning and context. Not what you want it to be.
Peter is introducing in his letter by first identifying the source of all spiritual righteousness and the executioner of our salvation. There are two (S)spirits address here, not a triple triad spirit. In fact the Holy Spirit as a leg of your idol worship is not even addressed here. You would think he would have mentioned it if it had equal weight as being YHWH as you say Christ is also. Come to think of it, the so-called 3rd person of your idol does not do much in the Bible. Just saying...
Anyway, the source of all righteousness is firmly from YHWH our Father. And the executioner of our salvation is the Christ, the Son of man and the Son of YHWH. The audience had this understanding in mind and not a 3-headed monster of yours.
2 Peter 1:1-2 Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ. To those through the righteousness of our God AND Saviour Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours: Grace and peace be yours in abundance through the knowledge of God(YHWH) AND OF Jesus OUR Lord.
Clearly we see two spirits: of the Spirit of YHWH alone, and Jesus OUR Lord or master or anointed one, by YHWH and by his own Spirit....there are two, not one, as you force by smashing them together into one god as you love to do.
2 Peter 1:3-8 then appropriately begins by addressing the Father YHWH first, the only source of godliness, the giver of all promises as we discussed in Joel just yesterday, ... and ending with his Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, his instrument for our salvation.
Speaks first to the divinity of the Father alone and then to the knowledge of our Lord.
His audience would understand this line perfectly, as I do.
and then in verse 11 we see that if we abide by all the things Peter states, they/we will be richly welcomed into the Kingdom of our Lord Jesus Christ....the Father YHWH has given HIS Kingdom to his Son for a time and an age...as we all should realize..
Can you go through scripture even as I just did here to show how YOUR triad idol fits...you cannot and I will never see you do it...
Take your idol lenses off and see the unfiltered word of YHWH...I dare you.
You cannot do it can you...and must cling to your idol for 'life' to where and what gain I wonder...
APAK
I see you run from the text mate......................................
If Jesus is not our GOD and Savior in 2 Peter 1:1 then neither is He our Lord and Savior in 1:11
you cannot have it both ways, you cannot have your cake and eat it too.
its being 100% dishonest with the text and reveals your BIAS that you read into the scriptures and shows how you twist the truth.
hope this helps !!!
Look, I cannot address a statement that is nonsense Christo. YHWH is the Father and the Christ is our Lord, not our LORD Almighty.
This is basis scripture 101. There is NO both ways as you imagine here....believe me.
You are beginning to get very frustrating..you have the opportunity to explain it, so DO IT..explain yourself on this subject once and for all. Are you deliberately choosing to be evasive and vague.
Why CANNOT YHWH be our FATHER and the Christ be our Master....you say you know Greek....
If you keep inventing things about my comments I will just sign of this subject. You do not want understanding, only my approval of your ridiculous doctrine. ain't happen fellow...
I hope that you can see that you are denying the testimony of holy scripture in Ephesians 4:4 here.
Mattathias
Member
A deceased human person.
No, but it’s usually close.
No, but it’s usually close.
No.
No.
No.
No.
The only nonsense is coming from you who is denying the two passages are constructed exactly the same.
2 Peter 1:1
τοῦ θεοῦ ἡμῶν καὶ σωτῆρος Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ
2 Peter 1:11
τοῦ κυρίου ἡμῶν καὶ σωτῆρος Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ
2 Peter 1:1
our God and Savior, Jesus Christ
2 Peter 1:11
our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ
So if Jesus is not our God and Savior then by your own admission He is not our Lord and Savior.
There is no other option. Either He is both or neither the text leaves no other option. The only option is the one which is the TRUTH- Jesus is both God and Savior/Lord and Savior.
hope this helps!!!
Since most people believe that the Father is "the LORD", I will say that according to Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21, the Father is also "the Lord" and therefore when we read either spelling of the word, it can be interpreted phonetically.
"The LORD" is "the Lord" according to the verses above.
There is one Lord in holy scripture (Ephesians 4:5); even the Father (Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21). Nevertheless, no one can say that Jesus is the Lord except by the Holy Ghost (1 Corinthians 12:3). And Jesus is the one Lord (1 Corinthians 8:6).
jaybird
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what are talking about, when you introduce yourself you introduce a second version of yourself and then tell everyone there are two of you but you both are one, this is what you tell people? because the world i live in no one has ever done this. the Father has ways that can not be understood, i agree, but the bible was written for us for things we can understand.
whats the personal name of the Spirit?
lots of people are called elohim, angels, sons of the Most High.
jaybird
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i agree with the 'agency" thing. your the expert on that. i think ther is another example of that in the NT, the centurion and the sick servant, the centurion sent someone to Jesus and Jesus responds to the person sent as if He is speaking to the centurion who is not there. this is also what they mean when Jesus came in the Fathers "name" not His own name.
jaybird
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you thnk the Most High, creator of all things, is the "son of" someone? whos son is He?
John 1:3
Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
Romans 11:33-34
For who has known the mind of the Lord, or who became His counselor? 35 Or who has first given to Him that it might be paid back to him again? 36 For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things. To Him be the glory forever. Amen.
1 Corinthians 8:6
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things, and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.
Colossians 1:16-17
For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
Hebrews 1:2
but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe.
Hebrews 1:10
He also says,
"In the beginning, O Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands.
Revelation 5:11-14
And I looked, and I heard the voice of many angels around the throne and the living creatures and the elders; and the number of them was myriads of myriads, and thousands of thousands, 12 saying with a loud voice,
"Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power and riches and wisdom and might and honor and glory and blessing."
13 And every created thing which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all things in them, I heard saying,
"To Him who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb, be blessing and honor and glory and dominion forever and ever."
14 And the four living creatures kept saying, "Amen." And the elders fell down and worshiped.
It looks like the Son is the Creator and worshipped in heaven as the Creator. Its undeniable that all things came from the Son in creation and that He is before all created things and that in Him all created things exist and are held together by Him.
hope this helps !!!
The shared article signals that kai is expletive. This is first year Greek. "our God, even Savior, Jesus Christ."
Much love!
JBF...
I think you have introduced me to this road of your home already. I really don't want to go down it again. You did read my previous replies on how I and you view LORD and Lord etc..?
I really suggest you do some serious research on the names representing YHWH in the OT and how He and his Son are referred to, in the NT. I've spent numerous hours over years doing such a thing ..it is eye-opening, indeed.
You might want to change your current view of the subject after knowing this subject in more detail.
There are differences and similarities of these symbols of YHWH/YHVH/Yahweh, Adon, Adonai(y) , El, Elohi(y)m, Elahh, Sabaoth, Shaddai, LORD, Lord, ‘My Lords,’ Master, master, anointed one, Christ..etc..it might make you see some missing parts in your arguments.
And actually the somewhat confusing areas should be found in the OT and not the NT..
Bless you,
APAK
This is your first hermeneutical mistake the New interprets the Old not voice versa.
2 Tim 3:7 comes to mind here.. we are now using 'kai' in this context proving a shared article, and that the nouns on both ends mean the SAME thing..wow .....legalist anyone?
looks like you are unfamiliar with N.T. Greek basics.
A Manual Of The Greek New Testament, Dana & Mantey,( p. 147)
The following rule by Granville Sharp of a century back still proves to be true: “When the copulative kai connects two nouns of the same case, if the article ho or any of its cases precedes the first of the said nouns or participles, and is not repeated before the second noun or participle, the latter always relates to the same person that is expressed or described by the first noun or participle; i.e., it denotes a further description of the first-named person.
Granville Sharp’s rule, according to Granville Sharp, is:
“When the copulative καὶ connects two nouns of the same case [viz. nouns (either substantive or adjective, or participles) of personal description, respecting office, dignity, affinity, or connexion, and attributes, properties, or qualities, good or ill,] if the article ho, or any of its cases, precedes the first of the said nouns or participles, and is not repeated before the second noun or participle, the latter always relates to the same person that is expressed or described by the first noun or participle: i.e., it denotes a farther description of the first named person.
Daniel Wallace Greek Grammar: used in every Seminary
In native Greek constructions (i.e., not translation Greek), when a single article modifies two substantives connected by kai (thus, article-substantive- kai-substantive), when both substantives are (1) singular (both grammatically and semantically), (2) personal, (3) and common nouns (not proper names or ordinals), they have the same referent.
jaybird
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