The TRUE Meaning Of The Little Horn Prophecy For the End

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Davy

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It's important to keep the 'flow'... of what Daniel wrote about the "little horn" in Daniel 7. Some like to pic-n-choose verses to cover while leaving others out which affect the interpretation...

Dan 7:2-9
2 Daniel spake and said, I saw in my vision by night, and, behold, the four winds of the heaven strove upon the great sea.

3 And
four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.

4 The
first was like a lion, and had eagle's wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man's heart was given to it.

That above 1st beast was the Babylon empire, under Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylon.

5 And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear, and it raised up itself on one side, and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it: and they said thus unto it, Arise, devour much flesh.

The Medo-Persia empire came next, having conquered Babylon.

6 After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it.

The 3rd one is represented by Alexander's Grecia, which conquered the Medo-Persia empire.

7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.

That represented the pagan Roman empire of history. But there's a problem with that above, because it mentions that it had "ten horns". The ancient pagan Roman empire did NOT have "ten horns". And this is following the order of the pieces that make up the beast statue that Nebuchadnezzar was shown in his dream, per Daniel 2. So let's go back to Daniel 2 and see what's up.

Daniel speaking to Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylon...

Dan 2:31-35
31 Thou, O king, sawest, and behold a great image. This great image, whose brightness was excellent, stood before thee; and the form thereof was terrible.

32 This image's
head was of fine gold, his breast and his arms of silver, his belly and his thighs of brass,

The beast image that Neb saw in his dream had:
1 -- "head was of fine gold" = Babylon empire
2 -- "his breast and arms of silver" = Medo-Persia empire
3 -- "his belly and his thighs of brass" = Grecia empire

33 His legs of iron, his feet part of iron and part of clay.

4 -- "His legs of iron" = pagan Roman empire
5 -- "his feet of iron and part of clay" = ????

Do you not see a problem here brethren, like Daniel forgot to reveal something missing there? Daniel 7:3 mentioned FOUR GREAT BEASTS. But here with Neb's dream, it reveals there are FIVE GREAT BEASTS in all. That because there are FIVE PIECES to the beast statue as written, not FOUR. So what's going on? What are many missing here about the "little horn" and only FOUR great beasts mentioned, when Daniel 2 is actually pointing to FIVE great beasts?

The next Daniel 2:34 verse reveals that FIVE BEASTS are present with the beast image statue... AND... even WHEN the final beast is to MANIFEST...

Dan.2:34 Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces.

A "stone was cut out without hands"? What's that? The expression, "cut out without hands" is a supernatural pointer. It means non-earthly, non-material. So it's not an actual real stone, but serves like a stone hitting something and breaking it to pieces. That "stone" represents Lord Jesus Christ on the day of His future coming. He will smite this 'beast' that will have feet of ten toes of iron mixed with clay. Has that happened yet today brethren? No, of course not. We STILL await Christ's future return to this day.

35 Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.
KJV

How many pieces of that beast image statue is mentioned in the above? FIVE, not four.

And that reveals all FIVE pieces... of that beast image statue is BROKEN TOGETHER. That means ALL... of those FIVE beast image pieces will exist TOGETHER as the FINAL BEAST, a FIFTH BEAST for the very END of this world on the DAY of Christ's future return when He as that "stone" comes to smite that beast upon its feet, and the whole... beast together, comes tumbling down, and Christ's future Kingdom instead is then established to fill the whole earth (i.e., over all nations and peoples).

That FIFTH BEAST for the very END thus reveals more about the "little horn", and the time of his working. It points to the "little horn" (Antichrist) appearing at the very end of this world in the days just prior to Christ's future return. Back to Daniel 7...

Dan.7:8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.

Coming up among the "ten horns" is another "little horn", and that "little horn" will pluck up 3 of those 10 horns. Not destroy, but "subdue" (humble) as per Dan.7:24.

9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, Whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of His head like the pure wool: His throne was like the fiery flame, and His wheels as burning fire.
KJV


Daniel saw all that until those "thrones" were cast down. What "thrones"? The "thrones" of those 10 horns, and that of that "little horn". That is an expression for the day of Christ's future return on the "day of the Lord". That is when all those false "thrones" on earth will be destroyed. What time does that mean for when that "little horn" will exist? It points to that "little horn" being the final 'beast' king over those 10 horns at the very END of this world.

Did you know that Lord Jesus revealed the timing at the very END of this world when those "ten horns" and that "little horn" will be in power?? Turn to Revelation 17 with me...

Rev 17:12-14
12 And
the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.

Whoa! There's those "ten horns" from the Book of Daniel being mentioned. Daniel 7:24 shows those "ten horns" represent "ten kings" also, but not when... they would manifest. This shows when. It will be ONLY at the time of the very END of this world when that "beast" king of the previous Rev.17 verses will manifest as the coming false-Messiah, or The Antichrist, or "man of sin", or the "dragon", or Satan himself in plain sight on earth playing GOD with the power of great signs and wonders and miracles to deceive the whole... world. It is that future "one hour with the beast" time at the END of this world, when those ten kings will manifest, and not before.

That has never happened yet brethren, so don't let anyone deceive you about the time for that FINAL beast working. Even the next verse in Revelation 17:14 reveals the time when these 10 kings and "little horn" will manifest, because it is in the time frame of the final generation on earth that will 'see' Christ's future return...

Rev.17:14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for He is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with Him are called, and chosen, and faithful.
KJV
 
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Earburner

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It's important to keep the 'flow'... of what Daniel wrote about the "little horn" in Daniel 7. Some like to pic-n-choose verses to cover while leaving others out which affect the interpretation...

Dan 7:2-9
2 Daniel spake and said, I saw in my vision by night, and, behold, the four winds of the heaven strove upon the great sea.

3 And
four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.

4 The
first was like a lion, and had eagle's wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man's heart was given to it.

That above 1st beast was the Babylon empire, under Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylon.

5 And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear, and it raised up itself on one side, and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it: and they said thus unto it, Arise, devour much flesh.

The Medo-Persia empire came next, having conquered Babylon.

6 After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it.

The 3rd one is represented by Alexander's Grecia, which conquered the Medo-Persia empire.

7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.

That represented the pagan Roman empire of history. But there's a problem with that above, because it mentions that it had "ten horns". The ancient pagan Roman empire did NOT have "ten horns". And this is following the order of the pieces that make up the beast statue that Nebuchadnezzar was shown in his dream, per Daniel 2. So let's go back to Daniel 2 and see what's up.

Daniel speaking to Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylon...

Dan 2:31-35
31 Thou, O king, sawest, and behold a great image. This great image, whose brightness was excellent, stood before thee; and the form thereof was terrible.

32 This image's
head was of fine gold, his breast and his arms of silver, his belly and his thighs of brass,

The beast image that Neb saw in his dream had:
1 -- "head was of fine gold" = Babylon empire
2 -- "his breast and arms of silver" = Medo-Persia empire
3 -- "his belly and his thighs of brass" = Grecia empire

33 His legs of iron, his feet part of iron and part of clay.

4 -- "His legs of iron" = pagan Roman empire
5 -- "his feet of iron and part of clay" = ????

Do you not see a problem here brethren, like Daniel forgot to reveal something missing there? In Daniel 7:3 mentioned FOUR GREAT BEASTS. But here with Neb's dream, it reveals there are FIVE GREAT BEASTS in all. That because there are FIVE PIECES to the beast statue as written, not FOUR. So what's going on? What are many missing here about the "little horn" and only FOUR great beasts mentioned?

The next Daniel 2:34 reveals that FIVE BEASTS are present with the beast image statue... AND... even WHEN the FINAL BEAST is to MANIFEST...

Dan.2:34 Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces.

A "stone was cut out without hands"? What's that? The expression, "cut out without hands" is a supernatural pointer. It means non-earthly, non-material. So it's not an actual real stone, but serves like a stone hitting something and breaking it to pieces. That "stone" represents Lord Jesus Christ on the day of His future coming. He will smite this 'beast' that will have feet to ten toes of iron mixed with clay. Has that happened yet today brethren? No, of course not. We STILL await Christ's future return to this day.

35 Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.
KJV

How many pieces of that beast image statue is mentioned in the above? FIVE, not four.

And that reveals all FIVE pieces... of that beast image statue is BROKEN TOGETHER. That means ALL... of those FIVE beast image pieces will exist TOGETHER as the FINAL BEAST, a FIFTH BEAST for the very END of this world on the DAY of Christ's future return when He as that "stone" comes to smite that beast upon its feet, and the whole... beast together, comes tumbling down, and Christ's future Kingdom instead is then established to fill the whole earth (i.e., over all nations and peoples).

That FIFTH BEAST for the very END thus reveals more about the "little horn", and the time of his working. It points to the "little horn" (Antichrist) appearing at the very end of this world in the days just prior to Christ's future return. Back to Daniel 7...

Dan.7:8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.

Coming up among the "ten horns" is another "little horn", and that "little horn" will pluck up 3 of those 10 horns. Not destroy, but "subdue" (humble) as per Dan.7:24.

9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, Whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of His head like the pure wool: His throne was like the fiery flame, and His wheels as burning fire.
KJV


Daniel saw all that until those "thrones" were cast down. What "thrones"? The "thrones" of those 10 horns, and that of that "little horn". That is an expression for the day of Christ's future return on the "day of the Lord". That is when all those false "thrones" on earth will be destroyed. What time does that mean for when that "little horn" will exist? It points to that "little horn" being the final 'beast' king over those 10 horns at the very END of this world.

Did you know that Lord Jesus revealed the timing at the very END of this world when those "ten horns" and that "little horn" will be in power?? Turn to Revelation 17 with me...

Rev 17:12-14
12 And
the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.

Whoa! There's those "ten horns" from the Book of Daniel being mentioned. Daniel 7:24 shows those "ten horns" represent "ten kings" also, but not when... they would manifest. This shows when. It will be ONLY at the time of the very END of this world when that "beast" king of the previous Rev.17 verses will manifest, the coming false-Messiah, or The Antichrist, or "man of sin", or the "dragon", or Satan himself in plain sight on earth playing GOD with the power of great signs and wonders and miracles to deceive the whole... world.

That has never happened yet brethren, so don't let anyone deceive you about the time for that FINAL beast working. Even the next verse in Revelation 17:14 reveals the time when these 10 kings and "little horn" will manifest, because it is in the time frame of the final generation on earth that will 'see' Christ's future return...

Rev.17:14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with Him are called, and chosen, and faithful.
KJV
Unfortunately, you have over looked the most important prophecy in Daniel, that had to do with the "Four notable ones [horns]" of the "latter time" of the 3rd beast of Alexander's Grecian Empire. Dan. 8:8-25.

All of that was about the four Hellenistic kingdoms of Alexander's "four generals", of which came out of the Seleucid empire the "little horn", named Antiochus Epiphanes IV, who committed the act of "the abomination that maketh desolate".
The factual history of that is is found in 1 Maccabees 1 ch. 1-4, as what was prophesied about the 2300 days. Dan. 12.
 
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Davy

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Unfortunately, you have over looked the most important prophecy in Daniel, that had to do with the "Four notable ones [horns]" of the "latter time" of the 3rd beast of Alexander's Grecian Empire. Dan. 8:8, 22.

All of that was about the four Hellenistic kingdoms of Alexander's "four generals", of which came the "little horn" named Antiochus Epiphanes IV, who committed the act of "the abomination that maketh desolate".
The factual history of that is is found in 1 Maccabees 1 ch. 1-4, as what was prophesied about the 2300 days. Dan. 12.
Unfortunately, what you are pointing to is 'a guess' of where... the "little horn" will originate from. That in no way changes what I covered in my original post.

And we know for certain... the "little horn" is not about Antiochus IV who took Jerusalem back in 170-165 B.C. and spiritually desolated the 2nd temple, and setup an IDOL in Zeus worship inside that temple. That is the subject of the Daniel 11:31 "place the abomination that maketh desolate" which is done by the "vile person" of that Dan.11 Chapter.

We KNOW... Antiochus did NOT fulfill that, and here is why...

Matt 24:15-21
15
When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21
For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
KJV

Around 200 years after... Antiochus IV had been dead, Lord Jesus gave the above warning about the placing of that abomination idol in a temple in Jerusalem, which has to be for the very end of this world, because... that time of "great tribulation" will be at the very end, which even Daniel 12:1 does also reveal...

Dan 12:1
12
And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
KJV


Thus Antiochus IV was only a 'blueprint' for the final Antichrist still yet to come at the end of this world.

Per more connected prophecy Jesus gave along with that, we also know for certain... that coming Antichrist will be proclaimed as Messiah, which means what? Did God's prophets proclaim Messiah would come from China, or Peru, or the South or North Pole? No. God's Word, even in Daniel 11, reveals the coming Antichrist will be proclaimed as being of the tribe of Judah, the king tribe. That's the only way the Jews in Jerusalem would proclaim their 'king' over a kingdom in Jerusalem (Dan.11:21; Dan.11:23).

That coming Antichrist won't actually be from any tribe of Israel, but others supporting him to power will proclaim it in order to deceive.
 
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Earburner

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We KNOW... Antiochus did NOT fulfill that, and here is why...

Matt 24:15-21
15
When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21
For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
KJV
Again, unfortunately, most of church-ianity, the wisdom of men has corrupted and misconstrued the understanding of WHO Jesus was pointing to, when he said those words in Mat. 24:15-21.

Let's see if you can turn yourself around from the sham of a LIE that they have foisted upon all of CHRISTianity. 1 Cor. 2:5. Yes indeed, it will take the power [authority] of the Holy Spirit within you, for you to receive it and accept it.

Here is the Truth for your better understanding:
John 2
[18] Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?
[19] Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
[20] Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
[21] But he spake of the temple of his body.
[22] When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.

Through typology*, Jesus was pointing to Himself as being the victim of the Jews themselves committing the 7th abomination against God. Prov. 6:17, which says: "hands that shed innocent blood.

And then to make matters worse for themselves, the Jews actually invited that curse upon themselves, by saying:
Mat. 27
[24] When Pilate saw that he could prevail nothing, but that rather a tumult was made, he took water, and washed his hands before the multitude, saying, I am innocent of the blood of this just person: see ye to it.
[25] Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children.

*Note: prophecy that has already been fulfilled, CANNOT be fulfilled again, but it CAN be performed through typology (type and antitype), which is exactly why Jesus used the "AoD" in Daniel. Jesus was using that fulfilled event of the "AoD", to point TO HIMSELF, as being a "type" of the AoD against the Jewish temple, during the days of Antiochus Epiphanes IV and that of Judas Maccabbeus. See 1 Maccabees ch. 1-4.

In totality, at least three major prophecies, that were spoken of to Israel, today the religious realm of "church-ianity"*, has all three at least 80% of it wrong!
*1 Cor. 2:5.

1. The prophecy about the Abomination that maketh desolate
2. The prophecy of the 2300 days.
3. The prophecy about the 70 weeks.
 
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Randy Kluth

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How many pieces of that beast image statue is mentioned...

Whoa! There's those "ten horns" from the Book of Daniel being mentioned. Daniel 7:24 shows those "ten horns" represent "ten kings" also, but not when... they would manifest. This shows when. It will be ONLY at the time of the very END of this world when that "beast" king of the previous Rev.17 verses will manifest as the coming false-Messiah, or The Antichrist, or "man of sin", or the "dragon", or Satan himself in plain sight on earth playing GOD with the power of great signs and wonders and miracles to deceive the whole... world. It is that future "one hour with the beast" time at the END of this world, when those ten kings will manifest, and not before.

That has never happened yet brethren, so don't let anyone deceive you about the time for that FINAL beast working. Even the next verse in Revelation 17:14 reveals the time when these 10 kings and "little horn" will manifest, because it is in the time frame of the final generation on earth that will 'see' Christ's future return...
I personally think Dan 2 and Dan 7 groups this set of empires into "4" and not "5." Notice that Nebuchadnezzar saw, in his dream a 4th Kingdom. And this Kingdom produced a latter day fulfillment *of the same Kingdom!*

Dan 2.40 Finally, there will be a fourth kingdom, strong as iron—for iron breaks and smashes everything—and as iron breaks things to pieces, so it will crush and break all the others. 41 Just as you saw that the feet and toes were partly of baked clay and partly of iron, so this will be a divided kingdom; yet it will have some of the strength of iron in it, even as you saw iron mixed with clay. 42 As the toes were partly iron and partly clay, so this kingdom will be partly strong and partly brittle.

The same with Daniel's dream...

Dan 7.7 “After that, in my vision at night I looked, and there before me was a fourth beast—terrifying and frightening and very powerful. It had large iron teeth; it crushed and devoured its victims and trampled underfoot whatever was left. It was different from all the former beasts, and it had ten horns.

So in my view, the passages suggest there will be a 4th Kingdom that is somehow connected to its endtime fulfillment. But I do agree that the 4th Kingdom and its latter-day fulfillment are distinct. The 10 toes are indeed substantially different from the 2 legs. The 10 horns are substantially different from the initial Beast.

Why are they linked then, if the ancient Roman Empire is so separated from its endtime fulfillment? Didn't Rome fall in 476 AD, and didn't Constantinople fall in 1453 AD? Yes, these ancient cities did fall in history. But I would argue that they didn't stay dead. Their tradition carried on into the future, and their latter-day fulfillment will have representation.

Ancient Rome was Italian but moved north and became a Germanic imperial tradition in the West. In the East, Constantinople was Greek, but moved north and became a Slavic imperial tradition in the East--today's Russia. The "4th Empire" didn't really die--it just moved and evolved.

The 4th Kingdom will be the "last Kingdom" in the present age as the critical player preceding the coming of Christ's Kingdom. Indeed, Roman Civilization has become European Civilization, and has been the heart of Christendom over the many centuries since Christ.

But as we all know, Christianity has not been synonymous with European Civilization. Indeed the differences grow more pronounced every day! I think we're at the beginning of the final great apostasy leading to Antichrist.
 

Earburner

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Dan 12:1
12
And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
KJV
And your assumption (according to church-ianity) is that it must be the Book of Life.
WRONG! All of Israel of faith in "the Promise [Messiah] to come", were written in "a Book of Remembrance" Malachi 3:16.

We see them under the altar of the OC. being given the Gift of the HS in Rev. 6:9-11. God did NOT forget them of whom He "rememembered".
Now, ever since AFTER the resurrection of Jesus, they ARE written in the Book of Life,
Mat. 27:52-53; John 7:39; Rev. 14:1-5.

WHO are they? They are the figurative 144,000 of all the tribes of OC. Israel.

*Note: Though alive at the first manifestation of Jesus, Nathaniel and Simeon were each an "Israelite indeed", being two of Israel who were of that symbolic number of symbolic 144,000. Rev. 14:1-5 (specifically vs. 5).

Simeon, was promised in a vision that he would see the Savior. And that he did, as an old man, when he held the babe in his arms (Luke 2:28). However, before Jesus reached the age of 33, it is safe to say that Simeon was now himself dead and "under the altar".

Edit:
Eph. 4

[8] Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
[9] (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he ALSO descended FIRST INTO the lower parts of the earth? [aka the grave].

1 Peter 3
[18] For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
[19] By which also [by the Spirit] he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; [aka confined, locked in death; the grave]
[20] Which sometime [in time past] were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
Edit:
It is to those "eight souls" that the Spirit of Christ "preached to", who were still in the "prison" of death, but were "remembered" of by God, that they also should be of the 144,000, whereby they also should receive the Gift of God's Holy Spirit. Malachi 3:16; Rev. 6:9-11.
 
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Davy

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And your assumption (according to church-ianity) is that it must be the Book of Life.
WRONG! All of Israel of faith in "the Promise [Messiah] to come", were written in "a Book of Remembrance" Malachi 3:16.
NO, not all the seed of Israel have been written in the 'book of life' from the foundation of the world, and to believe that is to deny what Apostle Paul taught in Romans 11 about the majority of his Jewish brethren having been spiritually BLINDED by God for this present world time...

Rom 11:7-11
7
What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day.
9 And David saith, 'Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumbling block, and a recompence unto them:
10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.'
11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
KJV


And the subject of this Thread is about the "little horn" prophecy from the Book of Daniel, which is about the final Antichrist at the END of this world.
 

Earburner

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NO, not all the seed of Israel have been written in the 'book of life' from the foundation of the world, and to believe that is to deny what Apostle Paul taught in Romans 11 about the majority of his Jewish brethren having been spiritually BLINDED by God for this present world time...

Rom 11:7-11
7
What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day.
9 And David saith, 'Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumbling block, and a recompence unto them:
10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.'
11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
KJV
Many professing christians are in a dither about who the 144,000 are, and when it is that prophecy has fulfillment. The factor for correct discernment, rests in understanding NOT WHEN is the first resurrection, BUT rather WHO IS the First Resurrection.

Once that is resolved and settled in our minds, then and only then will the Lord's Truth be revealed of who the 144,000 really are, that are under the altar, and had been waiting for the Promise that was to come.
Col. 1
[18] And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
The promise of the Messiah has come, and God did not forget those who He had "remembered", who had died under the OC. Malachi 3:16; John 7:39; Rev. 6:9-11.

But NOW that Jesus has come, ever since Pentecost all people, whether Jew or Gentile must appear (come to) "the judgment seat of Christ" for salvation. For ALL that do, they shall be "redeemed" in that which is called "the Great Multitude".
Rom. 10
[12] For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

And the subject of this Thread is about the "little horn" prophecy from the Book of Daniel, which is about the final Antichrist at the END of this world.
To get back on track with this thread:
Actually no, there is no final "THE" Antichrist to come. That "little horn" in Daniel, who committed the "abomination that maketh desolate", was fulfilled by Antiochus Epiphanes IV of the 3rd beast, in the latter part of the Grecian Empire. You can read the historical details in 1 Maccabees ch. 1-4.
All of that history has been fulfilled, having to do with the prophecy of the 2300 literal days in Daniel 8:8-14.
The 1290+45=1335 days take place within the 2300 day prophecy. Dan. 12
 
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Davy

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Many professing christians are in a dither about who the 144,000 are, and when it is that prophecy has fulfillment.
I assure you, I am in no such "dither".

The factor for correct discernment, rests in understanding NOT WHEN is the first resurrection, BUT rather WHO IS the First Resurrection.
The SEALING of the 144,000 of Rev.7 has nothing... to do with the time of the resurrection when Jesus returns. The 'sealing' is for the event described in Rev.9. Thus your post is way... off the actual subject of this thread.
 

Earburner

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I assure you, I am in no such "dither".


The SEALING of the 144,000 of Rev.7 has nothing... to do with the time of the resurrection when Jesus returns. The 'sealing' is for the event described in Rev.9. Thus your post is way... off the actual subject of this thread.
So, you disagree that Jesus is the First resurrection, who is Himself the FIRSTborn from the dead,....having the preemince in it.

If then that is your understanding, how did you become "blessed" as a "partaker of the divine nature", if you didn't "have part" in the First resurrection, who is Jesus?
Col. 3
[1] If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

Rom. 8
[9] But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
 
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Earburner

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I assure you, I am in no such "dither".


The SEALING of the 144,000 of Rev.7 has nothing... to do with the time of the resurrection when Jesus returns. The 'sealing' is for the event described in Rev.9. Thus your post is way... off the actual subject of this thread.
Since Pentecost, every Christian, whether Jew or Gentile, who is "born again" of the Holy Spirit of God, is SEALED unto the day of redemption, and therefore shall be of the Great Multitude.
There will be no preference or distinction made by God, that there will be 144,000 Jews from Israel to preach the gospel to all the world.
 
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Davy

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Since Pentecost, every Christian, whether Jew or Gentile, who is "born again" of the Holy Spirit of God, is SEALED unto the day of redemption, and therefore shall be of the Great Multitude.
There will be no preference or distinction made by God, that there will be 144,000 Jews from Israel to preach the gospel to all the world.
You reveal you don't really know your Old Testament history about Israelites. Not all Israelites were known as Jews. The title of 'Jew' originated from the sole tribe of Judah. And the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi made up the Jews of the southern "kingdom of Judah" after God split old Israel into two separate kingdoms (see 1 Kings 11 thru 2 Kings 17). Then ten northern tribes of Israel were not known as Jews historically. Only in later centuries because the majority of Israelites of the northern "kingdom of Israel" were scattered and gone out of the land, did it become popular to refer only to those of Israel that remained as Jews, i.e., the 3 tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi at Judea/Jerusalem.

How is that important when understanding Revelation 7 about the 144,000 literal Israelites? It's important because some church systems err in trying to assign the 144,000 as meaning orthodox unbelieving Jews that convert to Christ during the "great tribulation". The phrase "tribulation saints" or "tribulation Jews" is what those on the false Pre-trib Rapture doctrine call them.

Like you said, the idea of being 'sealed' is about the Christian, those of Christ's Church. And that is what the 144,000, of 12,000 out of each of those Israelite tribes are, Christians. Don't listen to those who claim that 144,000 are orthodox unbelieving Jews, none of them are. And they are SEALED with God's SEAL, which is The Holy Spirit protection against deception at the end. And those are all literal Israelites of the 'seed'.

However, ONLY 3 of those tribes out of the 144,000 represent Jews of the "house of Judah" (tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi). The rest of those tribes are descendants of the northern ten tribes that God scattered and made them lose their heritage as part of Israel. The Jews don't know who or where the ten tribes are today, but God knows. So in reality, the majority of those 144,000 represent 'ten lost tribe' Israelites of the 'seed', and they are part of Christ's Church since they are SEALED with God's SEAL.

But the "great multitude" starting at Rev.7:9, those represent the Gentiles of Christ's Church that are SEALED in prep for the tribulation also.
 
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Earburner

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But the "great multitude" starting at Rev.7:9, those represent the Gentiles of Christ's Church that are SEALED in prep for the tribulation also.
You actually didn't hear what I said in post #11. So, I will say the scripture to show that since Pentecost, there are NO Israelites out of any of the tribes of Israel, that shall be the 144,000, but rather for all of Israel, that do come to be believe in Jesus, they shall be among the Gentiles in the Great Multitude.
WHY??

Rom. 10
[12] For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
 

Brakelite

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The statue of Daniel 2 is the blueprint for the rest of prophecy. Anything that is interpreted from later prophecies that disagree with the basic skeleton of history as revealed in Daniel 2 must be set aside until understanding harmonizes.
Daniel 2, 7, and 8 all agree on the basic empirical nations that dominated the world. Babylon, Meda-Persia, Greece, and pagan Rome. After pagan Rome falls, we see in later history there's that union of iron and clay, and in Daniel 7, 11 horns growing from the head of pagan Rome. The question we need to settle before going off into tangents, is, 'what is the relation of the iron and clay, and does it parallel the horns from the 4th beast'?


History and prophecy also agrees that Greece, after the death of the first king, Alexander the Great, ensued battles for supremacy between Alexander's children and his generals. In the end, Greece was divided into 4 seperate kingdoms, ruled by 4 former generals. This gives us the precedent in understanding the 10 horns that grew from the 4th terrible beast of Daniel 7, but with the subtle difference that the Grecian kingdoms were represented by heads, and the Roman kingdoms by horns. That difference reflected the Greek culture that continued genetically by the Greek generals, Ptolemy, Lysimachus, Cassander and Seleucis. The horns that grew from the head of the Roman beast came from within the Empire, territorially, but were not Roman genetically. They were barbarian nations that eventually became the nations of Europe. Pagan Rome was done and dusted in the western hemisphere by the 5th century. It's territory was taken over be the Franks in Gaul, the Goths in northern Italy and areas around the Danube, the Vandals in North Africa, the Suevi in Portugal, etc.
That represented the pagan Roman empire of history. But there's a problem with that above, because it mentions that it had "ten horns". The ancient pagan Roman empire did NOT have "ten horns".
You are correct. But 10 horns did take over. Then of course there's the subject of this thread, that little horn that grew up amongst the ten. Therefore in the very same territory of ancient pagan Rome, this little horn grew, from within the Empire, having Roman cultural and religious and societal characteristics but not genetically Roman, Daniel saying, I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things. Daniel 7:8. Therefore we can safely assume that those 10 horns were reduced to 7, 3 of them being destroyed by the direct or indirect influence of this new interloper. History informs us that in the 6th century, indeed 3 of the further kingdoms were destroyed. The Goths, the Heruli, and the Vandals. None of these 3 have any representation in Europe after the little horn rose to power.
Now, to the clay.
Jerome had spoken of the fragmentation of the Roman Empire in the following terms:

“Moreover the fourth kingdom, which plainly pertains to the Romans, is the iron which breaks in pieces and subdues all things. But its feet and toes are partly of iron and partly of clay, which at this time [note that Jerome was living when this was happening] is most plainly attested. For just as in its beginning nothing was stronger and more unyielding than the Roman Empire, so at the end of its affairs nothing is weaker.” (Jerome, Commentary on Daniel, comments on 2:40, column 504). In the days when Jerome lived, the Roman Empire was coming apart. The barbarian tribes from the north had descended upon the empire with a vengeance and broke it up into the nations which today constitute western Europe. Yet that iron continues all way down through history until the second coming. It is however in another form. And although iron does not mix with clay as mentioned in the prophecy, there is a definite relationship there between pagan Rome and this new entity, the clay.
Is there in scripture any prophetic indication as to the identity of this clay entity, and does the clay and iron union of Daniel 2 parallel the rise of the little horn in Daniel 7?
 
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Jay Ross

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Hello

Daniel 2 is only speaking of the nations and empires that will have dominion over the land of the Chaldeans/Babylon. Today we know that the nations/empires that have exercised dominion over the land of the Chaldeans/Babylon are, 1, Babylon, 2. The Medes and the Persians, 3, the Grecian Empire, then the land of Babylon was devastated and desolated for a period of 2 ages, after which the following nations/empire exercised dominion over the Land of Babylon, 4. Iraq, and 5. The Coalition of the Willing.

Daniel 7 and 8 is speaking of the Heavenly beasts that will exercise influence over the peoples of the earth as the respective people groups, kingdoms, nations and Empires manifest the respective beasts' dominions.

The entities in Dan 2 are human while the entities in Daniel 7 and 8 are heavenly hosts.

When we can grasp this fact, Daniel begins to make more sense.
 
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Douggg

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Hello

Daniel 2 is only speaking of the nations and empires that will have dominion over the land of the Chaldeans/Babylon. Today we know that the nations/empires that have exercised dominion over the land of the Chaldeans/Babylon are, 1, Babylon, 2. The Medes and the Persians, 3, the Grecian Empire, then the land of Babylon was devastated and desolated for a period of 2 ages, after which the following nations/empire exercised dominion over the Land of Babylon, 4. Iraq, and 5. The Coalition of the Willing.

Daniel 7 and 8 is speaking of the Heavenly beasts that will exercise influence of the peoples of the earth as the respective people groups, kingdoms, nations and Empires manifest the respective beasts' dominions.

The entities in Dan 2 are human while the entities in Daniel 7 and 8 are heavenly hosts.

When we can grasp this fact, Daniel begins to make more sense.
Jay,

Daniel 2 - king Nebuchadnezzar's dream, in the second year of king Nebuchadnezzar's reign, 605 BC

Daniel 7 - Daniel's dream, in the first year of king Belshazzar, 556 BC

Daniel 8 - Daniel's dream, in the third year of king Belshazzar, 554 BC
Daniel visited by Gabriel

Daniel 9 - Daniel 's prayer, in the first year of king Darius, the Mede. over the Chaldeans, 539 BC
Daniel visited by Gabriel again

Daniel 10 - Daniel has a vision, in the third year of king Cyrus of Persia, 534 BC
Daniel faints, awakened by the angel who spoke to Daniel about the future, ultimately about the Jews in the latter days

Daniel 11 - The angel begins, through the time of Persia and then the Greeks, then the four breakup kingdoms, then to the time of the end of the latter days.

Daniel 12 - The angel continues with the time of the end, latter days, when the abomination of desolation will be set up.
 
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Jay Ross

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@Douggg

What you have posted above is interesting as a timeline for when Daniel penned the various parts of the Book of Daniel, but it does not change what I have posted or the importance of my post for understanding what is unfolding today.
 

Douggg

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@Douggg

What you have posted above is interesting as a timeline for when Daniel penned the various parts of the Book of Daniel, but it does not change what I have posted or the importance of my post for understanding what is unfolding today.
Jay, just take what I posted as helpful information.
 

Jay Ross

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Jay, just take what I posted as helpful information.

Douggg, I thought that I had conveyed that what you had posted in #16 was helpful.

Sadly, many of your other posts are not. Their source is their undoing.
 

Davy

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You actually didn't hear what I said in post #11. So, I will say the scripture to show that since Pentecost, there are NO Israelites out of any of the tribes of Israel, that shall be the 144,000, but rather for all of Israel, that do come to be believe in Jesus, they shall be among the Gentiles in the Great Multitude.
WHY??

Rom. 10
[12] For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
Your idea is simply men's doctrine, not written. You've been listening to some preacher that doesn't know their Bible.

Matt 19:27-28
27 Then answered Peter and said unto Him, "Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed Thee; what shall we have therefore?"
28
And Jesus said unto them, "Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed Me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of His glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel."
KJV

So you gonna' try and tell me that YOU are going to sit on one of the 12 thrones of FUTURE ISRAEL that Christ promised to His 12 Apostles?

Jesus just showed by the above how ludicrous the false idea you got from Biblically illiterate men you listen to are.

Don't you understand that when Paul said there is no difference between Jew and Gentile that was SPECIFIC to God's saving Grace through His Son Jesus Christ? That Gift is open to ALL... peoples that believe on Jesus Christ as The Savior.

But as for FUTURE service in Christ's future Kingdom, those positions are determined by God, and not us. So we even as believers do NOT have the right to EXALT ourselves beyond what GOD does. Believe this then, as written, our WORKS in Christ follow us to Heaven, and are what makes up our righteous clothing! Yet we all can only be saved by Faith on Jesus Christ, that requirement being the same for all peoples.

Study the following and heed what Jesus says about the children of Zebedee's mother...

Matt 20:20-23
20 Then came to Him the mother of Zebedee's children with her sons, worshipping Him, and desiring a certain thing of Him.

21
And He said unto her, "What wilt thou?" She saith unto Him, "Grant that these my two sons may sit, the one on Thy right hand, and the other on the left, in Thy kingdom."

22
But Jesus answered and said, "Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with?" They say unto Him, "We are able."

23
And He saith unto them, "Ye shall drink indeed of My cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on My right hand, and on My left, is not Mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of My Father."
KJV

You might also want to study what God said about the nation of Israel being established forever, per the Jeremiah 33:14-26 Scripture.