The TRUE Meaning Of The Little Horn Prophecy For the End

[covenantee]

I don't need proof from historical people. You made the claim, it is up to you to provide proof. I pointed out they never claimed that the Prince to come part was fulfilled. And you have sidestepped the issue.

Jesus was the Covenant maker as Messiah. The King part is still to come when time is declared over. Where is your historical proof that Jesus sat as King in Jerusalem and ruled all nations, and those nations obeyed without sin, and eternal righteousness was the norm. Where is your historical proof that the 7th Trumpet already sounded?

Oh, so you're the proof.

Who's the proof?

1. You
2. Defenders of the true faith for 17 centuries

Never was a decision easier.

 

[covenantee]

You know the 7th Trumpet has not happened yet. It is you who is claiming it has. There are no historical writers who claim the Prince to come has been fulfilled.

I've quoted two, but not for you.

You can't understand them, so just leave them for those who can understand.

Still waiting for your quotes which will never appear.

 

[Douggg]

Protestant Historicism was around centuries before the SDA church. The foundation of Historicism eschatology rests upon what are known as the "Twin Pillars of the Reformation": Salvation by grace through faith alone, and the papacy is the Antichrist of prophecy.

Though its roots could be traced all the way back to the early centuries of Christianity, the movement organized like never before during the time of Luther and his contemporaries. With the exception of a few SDA additions, Protestants believed, preached, and taught Protestant Historicism for over 300 years, while denouncing Jesuit Futurism's "future antichrist" and Jesuit Preterism's "1st century antichrist" - until just over a 100 years ago when Western Protestantism decided to give Jesuitical eschatological ideas another chance...and now is heard everywhere, including this site.

In the video, I think the speaker referred to 1844, which SDA calls the great disappointment because Jesus was expected to return that year, but did not. Is that not what you are referring to as Protestant Historicism thought as well?

Futurism is based on what is in the bible - not Jesuit commentary - nor Historicism commentary.

 

[Timtofly]

I've quoted two, but not for you.

You can't understand them, so just leave them for those who can understand.

Still waiting for your quotes which will never appear.

Oh, so you're the proof.

Who's the proof?

1. You
2. Defenders of the true faith for 17 centuries

Never was a decision easier.

Your points do not make any sense.

Those quotes did not say that the Prince to come, already came.


Then you want me to prove those quotes prove what?

Get back to the discussion, instead of me. I am not the topic, and this is just harassment, instead of a conversation.

I did understand the quotes, and those people never claimed Jesus was declared King which happens at the 7th Trumpet. The words "to come" meant after Jesus was cut off. Jesus was cut off, end of fulfillment. Since no early church father claimed that Jesus returned as Prince and confirmed the Covenant, you have no proof to your claim.

When you can provide a quote that backs up your claim, none of your post will make any sense.

 

[covenantee]

Your points do not make any sense.

Those quotes did not say that the Prince to come, already came.


Then you want me to prove those quotes prove what?

Get back to the discussion, instead of me. I am not the topic, and this is just harassment, instead of a conversation.

I did understand the quotes, and those people never claimed Jesus was declared King which happens at the 7th Trumpet. The words "to come" meant after Jesus was cut off. Jesus was cut off, end of fulfillment. Since no early church father claimed that Jesus returned as Prince and confirmed the Covenant, you have no proof to your claim.

When you can provide a quote that backs up your claim, none of your post will make any sense.

You're incapable of understanding the united collective spiritual wisdom and discernment of seventeen centuries of historical defenders of the True Faith. Denial is your only and last resort.

So just leave them for those who can understand them.

 

[covenantee]

In the video, I think the speaker referred to 1844, which SDA calls the great disappointment because Jesus was expected to return that year, but did not. Is that not what you are referring to as Protestant Historicism thought as well?

Futurism is based on what is in the bible - not Jesuit commentary - nor Historicism commentary.

Futurism is based on the fabrications spawned in the apostate papacy's 16th-century counter-Reformation.

Contained in the Jesuit Francisco Ribera's In Sacrum Beati Ioannis Apostoli, & Evangelistiae Apocalypsin Commentarij. (In the Sacred Book of Blessed John the Apostle, and Commentary on the Gospel of the Apocalypse).

 

[Douggg]

Futurism is based on the fabrications spawned in the apostate papacy's 16th-century counter-Reformation.

Contained in the Jesuit Francisco Ribera's In Sacrum Beati Ioannis Apostoli, & Evangelistiae Apocalypsin Commentarij. (In the Sacred Book of Blessed John the Apostle, and Commentary on the Gospel of the Apocalypse).

I never quote Ribera, but the bible, when I make a futurist eschatological point. Neither do I quote any historists, but the bible, when I make a futurist eschatological point.

Since you are saying futurism is based on papacy sources commentary, please provide a quote from one of their commentary works that the person who becomes the Antichrist goes through the 5 stages (highlighted in blue) on the path to his demise of being cast alive into the lake of fire.

1. as the little horn, (as king 7), leader over ten EU leaders.
2. as the prince who shall come following the Gog/Magog event.
3. as the Antichrist,temporary King of Israel thought-to-be messiah, by the Jews.
4. as the revealed man of sin, who claims to have achieved God-hood, end of his time as the Antichrist - phony King of Israel.
5. as the beast-king (king 8), who is killed for his God-hood claim, but comes back to life as the beast - to be the dictator of the EU.

Also, provide a quote from papacy source commentary that the Antichrist in Daniel 9:27 confirms the Mt. Sinai covenant for the 7 years as required by Moses in Deuteronomy 31:9-13.

Also, provide a quote from papacy source commentary that Ezekiel 39 provides the timeline framework which all endtimes events take place.

In Ezekiel 39, the destruction of Gog's army verses 1-6
In Ezekiel 39, then followed by 7 years verses 9-10 (the 70th week )
In Ezekiel 39, then the Armageddon event verses 17-20
In Ezekiel 39, then Jesus's return to this earth verses 21-29, His Second Coming

Contained in the Jesuit Francisco Ribera's In Sacrum Beati Ioannis Apostoli, & Evangelistiae Apocalypsin Commentarij. (In the Sacred Book of Blessed John the Apostle, and Commentary on the Gospel of the Apocalypse).

Have you yourself actually read any of those works ? I have not. I go by the bible, not commentary.

 

[Timtofly]

You're incapable of understanding the united collective spiritual wisdom and discernment of seventeen centuries of historical defenders of the True Faith. Denial is your only and last resort.

So just leave them for those who can understand them.

And now you elevate the writings of the last 1800 years into your own Bible.

Your human writings?

The established Word of God?

Which do you choose?

 

[Davy]

Protestant Historicism was around centuries before the SDA church. The foundation of Historicism eschatology rests upon what are known as the "Twin Pillars of the Reformation": Salvation by grace through faith alone, and the papacy is the Antichrist of prophecy.

Though its roots could be traced all the way back to the early centuries of Christianity, the movement organized like never before during the time of Luther and his contemporaries. With the exception of a few SDA additions, Protestants believed, preached, and taught Protestant Historicism for over 300 years, while denouncing Jesuit Futurism's "future antichrist" and Jesuit Preterism's "1st century antichrist" - until just over a 100 years ago when Western Protestantism decided to give Jesuitical eschatological ideas another chance...and now is heard everywhere, including this site.

Historicism is just another one of men's leaven doctrines that acts as a tether which came out of certain Christian seminaries. It has many false doctrines allied with its brother leaven doctrine called Preterism. Sometimes, it difficult to tell them apart. Both systems try to push many Bible prophecies about the end of this world to sometime back in history instead.

Those who still believe the old 16th century doctrines of the Reformation that thought the pope was the Antichrist are living in the past.

The Protestant Reformers back in the 16th century that were persecuted by the Roman Church and claimed the pope then was the Antichrist lost their prediction, because per Bible prophecy, Jesus is to return... during the generation that will see the Antichrist!

So who are these men today that keep pushing the old Reformer's belief that the pope is the Antichrist, because they are NOT keeping God's written Word?? Any true Christian that knows their Bible in its written simplicity knows to not listen to those people today still pushing the old Reformation.

 

[covenantee]

I never quote Ribera, but the bible, when I make a futurist eschatological point. Neither do I quote any historists, but the bible, when I make a futurist eschatological point.

Since you are saying futurism is based on papacy sources commentary, please provide a quote from one of their commentary works that the person who becomes the Antichrist goes through the 5 stages (highlighted in blue) on the path to his demise of being cast alive into the lake of fire.

1. as the little horn, (as king 7), leader over ten EU leaders.
2. as the prince who shall come following the Gog/Magog event.
3. as the Antichrist,temporary King of Israel thought-to-be messiah, by the Jews.
4. as the revealed man of sin, who claims to have achieved God-hood, end of his time as the Antichrist - phony King of Israel.
5. as the beast-king (king 8), who is killed for his God-hood claim, but comes back to life as the beast - to be the dictator of the EU.

Also, provide a quote from papacy source commentary that the Antichrist in Daniel 9:27 confirms the Mt. Sinai covenant for the 7 years as required by Moses in Deuteronomy 31:9-13.

Also, provide a quote from papacy source commentary that Ezekiel 39 provides the timeline framework which all endtimes events take place.

In Ezekiel 39, the destruction of Gog's army verses 1-6
In Ezekiel 39, then followed by 7 years verses 9-10 (the 70th week )
In Ezekiel 39, then the Armageddon event verses 17-20
In Ezekiel 39, then Jesus's return to this earth verses 21-29, His Second Coming



Have you yourself actually read any of those works ? I have not. I go by the bible, not commentary.

Have you ever heard of "peer review"?

A "test the spirits" process to assist in affirming truth and identifying private interpretations.

Not infallible, but of value when a doctrine has stood the test of time e.g. seventeen centuries of historical True Church orthodoxy.

Such as Christ the Covenant Confirmer of Daniel 9:27.

Who are any historical peers who would affirm your claims as truth rather than private interpretations?

Use the covenant confirmer of Daniel 9:27 as an example.

Also still waiting for you to explain why the New Covenant does not appear in your diagrams.

 

[covenantee]

And now you elevate the writings of the last 1800 years into your own Bible.

Your human writings?

The established Word of God?

Which do you choose?

Did historical defenders of the True Faith believe the established Word of God?

Or do only you believe the established Word of God?

 

[covenantee]

Historicism is just another one of men's leaven doctrines that acts as a tether which came out of certain Christian seminaries. It has many false doctrines allied with its brother leaven doctrine called Preterism. Sometimes, it difficult to tell them apart. Both systems try to push many Bible prophecies about the end of this world to sometime back in history instead.

Those who still believe the old 16th century doctrines of the Reformation that thought the pope was the Antichrist are living in the past.

The Protestant Reformers back in the 16th century that were persecuted by the Roman Church and claimed the pope then was the Antichrist lost their prediction, because per Bible prophecy, Jesus is to return... during the generation that will see the Antichrist!

So who are these men today that keep pushing the old Reformer's belief that the pope is the Antichrist, because they are NOT keeping God's written Word?? Any true Christian that knows their Bible in its written simplicity knows to not listen to those people today still pushing the old Reformation.

Whom to believe?

1. Anti-Reformation closet Jesuits deluded by apostate futurized fantasies and fallacies.
2. The Reformers, that God raised up to liberate His True Church from spiritual darkness and oppression.

Easiest decision ever.

 

[Phoneman777]

Did the 7th Trumpet sound at the week of the Cross as well, and Jesus became the King over every nation? Revelation 10:6-7

No.

The 7th Trumpet declares time is finished.

There's nothing preventing us from interpreting "time" here as "prophetic time" and not chronological time in general - because at some point after "time no more" the days of the 7th trumpet come to pass.

You can't have "time no more" followed "days" which we all know are blocks of time.

On the Cross, time was not finished. The work of redemption was finished, but the time and mystery of the redemption extended to the Gentiles was just starting. Jesus would not be the King of Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles was brought in.

When trying to understand what "to finish, make and end, make recon, bring in, seal up, and anoint" pertains to, we cannot look beyond what Gabriel says these pertain to: "thy people and thy holy city" aka ancient Israel and Jerusalem. Today, God's people are the "Israel of God" who "walk by this rule" of the "new creature" in Christ. Abraham's seed today are those who belong to Christ, etc.

Therefore, we can't say "sin still exists in the world so the prophecy is still future..."

The prophecy was sealed, not declared fulfilled.

One of the reasons why the 70 Weeks was cut off from the 2,300 Days was "to seal up the vision and the prophecy" - which refers to a "seal of assurance" for Daniel's people that the 2,300 Days would just as surely come to pass as when they would see the 70 Weeks come to pass and the Gospel go to the Gentiles.

Jesus put in the work to end the transgression, but the transgression was still in effect until the Second Coming.

Again, "thy people and thy holy city".

Jesus put in the work to bring in eternal righteousness,

After the Cross, Jesus directed the apostles to only go to the "lost sheep of the house of Israel" and many found "eternal righteousness" in Christ. Again, "thy people and thy holy city".

Jesus sealed up the prophecy about the Prince to come, because the Prince to come part is the Second Coming.

The 70 Weeks stretch from 457 B.C. to 34 A.D. which pertains to His First Coming.

Jesus was the anointed, that is what Messiah means.

Yes, because of Daniel's confusion, the 70 Weeks were "cut off" from the 2,300 in order to clarify what the 2,300 did not: the timing of the arrival of the "anointed One" - as well as the details of His mission - through Whom He would accomplish the "cleaning of the sanctuary" after 2,300 Days mentioned in chapter 8.

However the disclaimer after the promises would be that the Messiah would be cut off, and then they would have to wait for the Prince to come, the Second Coming.

Actually, before any mention of the Messiah at all, the prophecy mentions the six reasons for why the 70 was cut off from the 2300 - one of which is "to anoint the Most Holy" in the Jordan.

Jesus fulfilled the Messiah half for 3.5 years. Jesus will finish the King half in a future 3.5 years.

I'm glad you recognize what many don't: that we can't slice off the entire 70th week if the Cross has half of it nailed down firmly in history. However, we don't have any good reason to slice off 3.5 years either, because:

1) no other Numerically Specific Time Prophecy utilizes a "gap" - their duration lasts only as long as stated
2) Jesus is easily the "prince that shall come", "covenant confirmer", "sacrifice/oblation suspender, etc.
3) only Jesus can fulfill the prophecy: for instance, Job says Leviathan (Satan) makes covenants with no one

The final minutes of the 70th week could be an hour.

Actually, the final minutes of the 70 Weeks pertained to "thy people and thy holy city" back then, seemingly with the stoning of Steven, because right after the Gospel went to the Gentiles.

Jesus is the 70th week, not a literal fixed time period of 7 years Gabriel never said the 70th was a set of seven. Gabriel implies the Messiah and Prince to come is the 70th week.

If the 70th Week is as much a block of time on the prophetic timeline as are the 69 Weeks - the 70th Week isn't "Jesus" but "a period in which Jesus would accomplish His mission".

Daniel 9:27 is a set of days, the days of the 7th Trumpet.

The 7 Churches, Seals, Trumpets being parallel to one another on the prophetic timeline, the 7th trumpet began sounding in 1844 and will continue to sound until "the Trump of God" is blown by Him.

 

[Douggg]

Have you ever heard of "peer review"?

A "test the spirits" process to assist in affirming truth and identifying private interpretations.

Not infallible, but of value when a doctrine has stood the test of time e.g. seventeen centuries of historical True Church orthodoxy.

Such as Christ the Covenant Confirmer of Daniel 9:27.

Who are any historical peers who would affirm your claims as truth rather than private interpretations?

Use the covenant confirmer of Daniel 9:27 as an example.

Also still waiting for you to explain why the New Covenant does not appear in your diagrams.

You did not provide a quote from papacy source commentary to any of the things I listed in my post 147.

 

[covenantee]

You did not provide a quote from papacy source commentary to any of the things I listed in my post 147.

You did not answer why the New Covenant is not in your diagrams, in post 111.

 

[Phoneman777]

Yeah he does, when he comes in our near future as the Antichrist, as he will fulfill ALL... the parameters of the "vile person" prophecy in the Book of Daniel.

Dan 9:27
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week:

Malachi says Jesus is the "Messenger of the Covenant".
Isaiah says Jesus is to be given "for a Covenant of the people".
Daniel says Messiah the Prince - not Antichrist - will "confirm the Covenant with many"
Jesus says His blood is the "New Covenant shed for many" - just as Daniel said.
Paul says Christ came to "confirm" the promises - including God's promise to Jeremiah of a New Covenant
Paul says Christ first spoke New Covenant "salvation" in Person then continued to "confirm" via His disciples

God says Satan - animalified as "Leviathan" - makes covenants with no one - which means antichrist makes covenants with no one, seeing that antichrist is Satan's earthly representative.

 

[covenantee]

I never quote Ribera, but the bible, when I make a futurist eschatological point. Neither do I quote any historists, but the bible, when I make a futurist eschatological point.

Since you are saying futurism is based on papacy sources commentary, please provide a quote from one of their commentary works that the person who becomes the Antichrist goes through the 5 stages (highlighted in blue) on the path to his demise of being cast alive into the lake of fire.

1. as the little horn, (as king 7), leader over ten EU leaders.
2. as the prince who shall come following the Gog/Magog event.
3. as the Antichrist,temporary King of Israel thought-to-be messiah, by the Jews.
4. as the revealed man of sin, who claims to have achieved God-hood, end of his time as the Antichrist - phony King of Israel.
5. as the beast-king (king 8), who is killed for his God-hood claim, but comes back to life as the beast - to be the dictator of the EU.

Also, provide a quote from papacy source commentary that the Antichrist in Daniel 9:27 confirms the Mt. Sinai covenant for the 7 years as required by Moses in Deuteronomy 31:9-13.

Also, provide a quote from papacy source commentary that Ezekiel 39 provides the timeline framework which all endtimes events take place.

In Ezekiel 39, the destruction of Gog's army verses 1-6
In Ezekiel 39, then followed by 7 years verses 9-10 (the 70th week )
In Ezekiel 39, then the Armageddon event verses 17-20
In Ezekiel 39, then Jesus's return to this earth verses 21-29, His Second Coming



Have you yourself actually read any of those works ? I have not. I go by the bible, not commentary.

The fundamental issue is whether or not Ribera espoused a futurized antichrist, in the attempts of the apostate papacy to counter the Protestant Reformation.

He certainly did.

Now, why is the New Covenant not in your diagrams?



In sacram beati Ioannis Apostoli and Evangelistae Apocalypsin Commentarii

by Francisci Riberae
Presbyteri Societatis Iesu (Jesuit)

Antuerpiae, Ex Officina Martini Nutii,
ad insigne duarum Ciconiarum, MDCII (1602)

Revelation 11

XI. Argumentum Capitis XI. - 336
Iubetur Apostolus calamo metiri templum, & partem signare, quae Gentibus tradetur calcanda duobus & quadraginta mensibus. Duo Prophetae promittuntur, qui homines doceant, & pro veritate ab Antichristo occidentur, & post tres dies & dimidium resuscitati in coelum rapientur. Terraemotus continuo magnus fiet, & plurimi morientur. Septimus angelus tuba canit, & seniores gratias Deo agunt, quod iam supplicia implorum & praemia sanctorum adueniant.

The theme of Chapter XI.336 The apostle is ordered to measure out the temple with a pen, and to seal the portion which he will be handed over to the Gentiles to be trampled over for two and forty months. Two prophets are promised to teach men, and for the truth they shall be slain by Antichrist, and after three days and a half risen from the dead, shall be taken up to heaven. An earthquake will take place immediately, and many will die. The seventh angel sings the trumpet, and the elders give thanks to God, because the punishments of the impious and the rewards of the saints are already coming.

 

[Douggg]

Now, why is the New Covenant not in your diagrams?

My charts are about events to take place in the end times. The New Covenant in Christ is the basis for 2000 years of Christianity. I am not trying to prove the New Covenant in Christ with my charts. All Christians believe in the New Covenant in Christ.

The theme of Chapter XI.336 The apostle is ordered to measure out the temple with a pen, and to seal the portion which he will be handed over to the Gentiles to be trampled over for two and forty months. Two prophets are promised to teach men, and for the truth they shall be slain by Antichrist, and after three days and a half risen from the dead, shall be taken up to heaven. An earthquake will take place immediately, and many will die. The seventh angel sings the trumpet, and the elders give thanks to God, because the punishments of the impious and the rewards of the saints are already coming.

So how does that apply to any of the things I listed in my post 147 ?


The two prophets will be slain by the beast-king (the fifth stage of the person. Being the Antichrist is the third stage of the person). Ribera in the above commentary does not make that distinction. He says by the Antichrist, not by the beast-king.

1. as the little horn, (as king 7), leader over ten EU leaders.
2. as the prince who shall come following the Gog/Magog event.
3. as the Antichrist,temporary King of Israel thought-to-be messiah, by the Jews.
4. as the revealed man of sin, who claims to have achieved God-hood, end of his time as the Antichrist - phony King of Israel.
5. as the beast-king (king 8), who is killed for his God-hood claim, but comes back to life as the beast - to be the dictator of the EU.


What I am saying to you is that my futurist view is based on the bible - not on teachings of Ribera, nor any other papal source
commentator.

____________________________________________________

Find something on Ezekiel 39 from a Papal source commentator. I would like to see what you come up with.

 

[Timtofly]

Did historical defenders of the True Faith believe the established Word of God?

Or do only you believe the established Word of God?

I guess you like them so much you are going to have to quote them to see if they need peer reviewed today.

 

[covenantee]

My charts are about events to take place in the end times. The New Covenant in Christ is the basis for 2000 years of Christianity. I am not trying to prove the New Covenant in Christ with my charts. All Christians believe in the New Covenant in Christ.



So how does that apply to any of the things I listed in my post 147 ?


The two prophets will be slain by the beast-king (the fifth stage of the person. Being the Antichrist is the third stage of the person). Ribera in the above commentary does not make that distinction. He says by the Antichrist, not by the beast-king.

1. as the little horn, (as king 7), leader over ten EU leaders.
2. as the prince who shall come following the Gog/Magog event.
3. as the Antichrist,temporary King of Israel thought-to-be messiah, by the Jews.
4. as the revealed man of sin, who claims to have achieved God-hood, end of his time as the Antichrist - phony King of Israel.
5. as the beast-king (king 8), who is killed for his God-hood claim, but comes back to life as the beast - to be the dictator of the EU.


What I am saying to you is that my futurist view is based on the bible - not on teachings of Ribera, nor any other papal source
commentator.

____________________________________________________

Find something on Ezekiel 39 from a Papal source commentator. I would like to see what you come up with.

You claim that your futurist view is based on the bible.

Where in the Bible are you seeing the words "the Antichrist"?