The twelfth Apostle

[ScottA]

Had you been chosen instead of Maria Valtorta to receive dictations and visions from Jesus and other heavenly persons, and write down all you heard and saw at their behest, how would you biblically confirm your experience? Your answer to that will help me understand what kind of verse you're looking for.

Jesus referred to Abraham and Solomon; David and others prophesied of Him; John the Baptist and Peter confirmed that He was the Christ; Witnesses confirmed Paul's road to Damascus experience, etc..

As for those given the hidden manna, it is written:

Revelation 2:17​

“He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes I will give some of the hidden manna to eat. And I will give him a white stone, and on the stone a new name written which no one knows except him who receives it.”​

What name is Maria given?

As for me, I know my name.

 

[ScottA]

Jesus gave the context. You left it out.

He can help you with that too.

 

[Sigma]

He can help you with that too.

Help with what? I know the context Jesus gave because it's right there. You left it out and changed it.

 

[Sigma]

Jesus referred to Abraham and Solomon; David and others prophesied of Him; John the Baptist and Peter confirmed that He was the Christ; Witnesses confirmed Paul's road to Damascus experience, etc..

As for those given the hidden manna, it is written:

Revelation 2:17​

“He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes I will give some of the hidden manna to eat. And I will give him a white stone, and on the stone a new name written which no one knows except him who receives it.”​

What name is Maria given?

As for me, I know my name.

Had you been chosen instead of Maria Valtorta to receive dictations and visions from Jesus and other heavenly persons, and write down all you heard and saw at their behest, are you saying Rev. 2:17 would confirm your experience?

 

[ScottA]

Had you been chosen instead of Maria Valtorta to receive dictations and visions from Jesus and other heavenly persons, and write down all you heard and saw at their behest, are you saying Rev. 2:17 would confirm your experience?

This isn't about me. But I have biblical confirmation from scripture. Does Maria?

 

[Sigma]

This isn't about me. But I have biblical confirmation from scripture. Does Maria?

In order to answer, I need to know what kind of verse you want. So, again, had you been chosen instead of Maria Valtorta to receive dictations and visions from Jesus and other heavenly persons, and write down all you heard and saw at their behest, are you saying Rev. 2:17 is the chapter and verse that would confirm your experience?

 

[ScottA]

In order to answer, I need to know what kind of verse you want. So, again, had you been chosen instead of Maria Valtorta to receive dictations and visions from Jesus and other heavenly persons, and write down all you heard and saw at their behest, are you saying Rev. 2:17 is the chapter and verse that would confirm your experience?

I already gave you many examples of biblical confirmations in scripture.

But no, I am not saying that Revelation 2:17 confirms my experience. Again, this is not about me. I just gave it to give you something to answer to, that perhaps Maria was given a name only known to her. If she had mentioned it, it would be something--not that she would even need to give the name or its meaning, just that she could say that God knows therefore He gave her a new name. The point being-- we do not testify of ourselves. This is an important precedence of biblical confirmation.

 

[Sigma]

I already gave you many examples of biblical confirmations in scripture.

You've only cited Rev. 2:17 actually, that's why I asked if that's the one.

But no, I am not saying that Revelation 2:17 confirms my experience. Again, this is not about me. I just gave it to give you something to answer to, that perhaps Maria was given a name only known to her. If she had mentioned it, it would be something--not that she would even need to give the name or its meaning, just that she could say that God knows therefore He gave her a new name. The point being-- we do not testify of ourselves. This is an important precedence of biblical confirmation.

Maria mentioned Jesus calls her "Little John", as well as gave the explanation for why. So, had you been chosen instead of Maria Valtorta to receive dictations and visions from Jesus and other heavenly persons, and write down all you heard and saw at their behest, which chapter and verse would confirm your experience happened?

 

[Taken]

The twelfth Apostle​

OP^

Remembering; While the Apostles ARE Disciples…NOT ALL Disciples ARE Apostles.

Jesus Appointed 12 to Be Apostles, while full well knowing ONE would betray Him. (Ie. Judas Iscariot).

Many men and woman Following Jesus and His Teaching in His day became, and to this day become Disciples (but not Apostles).

After (Judas Iscariot), betrayed Jesus and forfeited his Position as an Apostle….The 11 Apostles counseled and prayed together, for a replacement.

The criteria was to appoint “someone” WHO:
Was a Disciple from the early days of Disciples being established and Following Jesus AND a first hand witness to Jesus’ Resurrection.
Only Two men were a possibility;
Matthias and Barabbas …
The Eleven cast their lots, and Matthias was Appointed to be the Twelfth Apostle.

ORIGINALLY Jesus Appointed 12, one betrayed Jesus, and another was Appointed in his (Judas’) place.

WHY? Twelve Apostles “not ONLY” had a mission in their day on Earth as Servants of the Lord… AS well the Twelve Apostles “ALSO” have an important Service to perform in the End Days of Judgement.

Luke 22:
[28] Ye are they which have continued with me in my temptations.
[29] And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
[30] That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Saul/Paul was NOT the 12th Apostle.
Saul was a Pharisee AGAINST Jesus and His Followers.
Saul (via his mothers heritage) a Jew.
Paul (via his fathers heritage) a Roman Citizen.
Saul/Paul was Appointed BY Jesus, the difficult task of Ministering unto the Gentiles, kings and Israel, which Paul obliged the Lord.

Acts 9:
[6] And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.
[15] But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
[16] For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Behold]

I understand that is the common doctrinal belief among the church, however the word "apostle" simply means "one sent."

As for "the signs of an apostle", indeed, one sent is sent by the power of God to perform the gift that he is sent to do...and yet there are many gifts given by God all of which are by the power of God. Thus, I would caution you not to take the common belief as being greater than the simple understanding of "God with us" regarding spiritual gifts and those sent according His numerous purposes, for we who are His, reign with Christ.

An Apostle is a specific anointing regarding that CALL...., that is proven by having the "signs of an apostle" among other things.

2nd Corinthians 12:12

 

[ScottA]

Jesus referred to Abraham and Solomon; David and others prophesied of Him; John the Baptist and Peter confirmed that He was the Christ; Witnesses confirmed Paul's road to Damascus experience, etc..

You've only cited Rev. 2:17 actually, that's why I asked if that's the one.

So...I see we have a comprehension issue here. Are you not reading my responses to you and therefore think I did not do what I actually did? You need to do better than that.

 

[ScottA]

You've only cited Rev. 2:17 actually, that's why I asked if that's the one.



Maria mentioned Jesus calls her "Little John", as well as gave the explanation for why. So, had you been chosen instead of Maria Valtorta to receive dictations and visions from Jesus and other heavenly persons, and write down all you heard and saw at their behest, which chapter and verse would confirm your experience happened?

You are repeatedly making this about me. Stop it.

As for Maria-- that's cute, but not in accord with biblical precedence. If she were actually sent by God, she would be equal to John, not less.

 

[ScottA]

An Apostle is a specific anointing regarding that CALL...., that is proven by having the "signs of an apostle" among other things.

2nd Corinthians 12:12

The problem is that you (and church doctrine) place a greater significance on the "signs of an apostle" when they are actually the lesser. For the greater things of God are unseen. Therefore Jesus said:

John 14:12​

“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father."​

 

[Behold]

The problem is that you (and church doctrine) place a greater significance on the "signs of an apostle" when they are actually the lesser. For the greater things of God are unseen. Therefore Jesus said:

John 14:12​

“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father."​

Your verse says that greater works, can be performed.
Its does not say anything about "signs".

Read carefully.

 

[ScottA]

Your verse says that greater works, can be performed.
Its does not say anything about "signs".

Read carefully.

You are missing the point.

The point is that "signs" are seen and therefore the lessor compared with those things done by the spirit which are unseen. Meaning, that the "signs of an apostle" are the lesser...while the church has incorrectly considered them the greater.

 

[Behold]

You are missing the point.

The point is that "signs" are seen

Im just showing you, that according to the Call of God that calls some to be Preacher, Teacher, Evangelist... or APOSTLE..

= The Proof that the Apostolic Call is on you, is : "The SIGNS of an Apostle".

2nd Corinthians 12:12

Those are supernatural, and they are under the control of the Apostle.

He can DO THEM....... He does not have to pray for them to occur.

 

[Sigma]

You are repeatedly making this about me. Stop it.

No, I'm asking you a question, and you repeatedly keep not answering it. Here it is again: Had you been chosen, instead of Maria Valtorta, to receive dictations and visions from Jesus and other heavenly persons, and write down all you heard and saw at their behest, which book, chapter and verse in the Bible would confirm your experience happened? Either you can answer it or you can't. If you can't answer it, then how can you use that same standard on Maria Valtorta?

 

[ScottA]

No, I'm asking you a question, and you repeatedly keep not answering it. Here it is again: Had you been chosen, instead of Maria Valtorta, to receive dictations and visions from Jesus and other heavenly persons, and write down all you heard and saw at their behest, which book, chapter and verse in theBible would confirm your experience happened? Either you can answer it or you can't. If you can't answer it, then how can you use that same standard on Maria Valtorta?

That is a dodge on your part.

It is I who asked you that question and you have turned it around, obviously avoiding the fact that you cannot give an answer with biblical evidence or confirmation regarding Maria Valtorta.

You have said enough.

 

[Sigma]

So...I see we have a comprehension issue here. Are you not reading my responses to you and therefore think I did not do what I actually did? You need to do better than that.

Telling me "Jesus referred to Abraham and Solomon; David and others prophesied of Him; John the Baptist and Peter confirmed that He was the Christ; Witnesses confirmed Paul's road to Damascus experience, etc.." is not citing the book, chapter, and verse in the Bible that would confirm you received dictations and visions from Jesus and other heavenly persons, had you had that experience.

That is a dodge on your part.

It is I who asked you that question and you have turned it around, obviously avoiding the fact that you cannot give an answer with biblical evidence or confirmation regarding Maria Valtorta.

Incorrect, because I told you in order to answer I need to know what kind of verse you're asking for, which is why I asked this question: Had you been chosen, instead of Maria Valtorta, to receive dictations and visions from Jesus and other heavenly persons, and write down all you heard and saw at their behest, which book, chapter, and verse in The Bible would confirm your experience happened?

I had to repeatedly ask you that because you repeatedly wouldn't answer, and you just refused to answer again. Thank you for confirming you can't answer it, and thus you look foolish applying a standard to Maria Valtorta that you can't even apply to yourself.

 

[MatthewG]

Let's not forget that Jesus was too an apostle, sent by God.