The twelfth Apostle

[Cassandra]

The Roman Catholic Church does not recognize her or her writings, do they?

And I don't want to say it, but she could be getting her information from another source, who also knows history, typology, architecture, geography, ethnology, chronology.

 

[ChristisGod]

In my opinion, Paul was the one that the Lord chose.

Peter did cast lots; but I remember from reading Samuel.

The high priest had to do the choosing, method they went by.

While people may disagree with me; The Lord called Paul. He was very humbled by the Lord.

“Now the Lord said to Samuel, “How long are you going to mourn for Saul, since I have rejected him from being king over Israel? Fill your horn with oil and go; I will send you to Jesse the Bethlehemite, because I have chosen a king for Myself among his sons.” But Samuel said, “How can I go? When Saul hears about it, he will kill me.” But the Lord said, “Take a heifer with you and say, ‘I have come to sacrifice to the Lord.’ And you shall invite Jesse to the sacrifice, and I will let you know what you shall do; and you shall anoint for Me the one whom I designate to you.” So Samuel did what the Lord told him, and he came to Bethlehem. Then the elders of the city came trembling to meet him and said, “Do you come in peace?” And he said, “In peace; I have come to sacrifice to the Lord. Consecrate yourselves and come with me to the sacrifice.” He also consecrated Jesse and his sons and invited them to the sacrifice. When they entered, he looked at Eliab and thought, “Surely the Lord’s anointed is standing before Him.” But the Lord said to Samuel, “Do not look at his appearance or at the height of his stature, because I have rejected him; for God does not see as man sees, since man looks at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart.” Then Jesse called Abinadab and had him pass before Samuel. But he said, “The Lord has not chosen this one, either.” Next Jesse had Shammah pass by. And he said, “The Lord has not chosen this one, either.” So Jesse had seven of his sons pass before Samuel. But Samuel said to Jesse, “The Lord has not chosen these.” Then Samuel said to Jesse, “Are these all the boys?” And he said, “The youngest is still left, but behold, he is tending the sheep.” So Samuel said to Jesse, “Send word and bring him; for we will not take our places at the table until he comes here.””
‭‭1 Samuel‬ ‭16‬:‭1‬-‭11‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

1 Samuel 16:1-11 Now the LORD said to Samuel, “How long are you going to mourn for Saul, since I have rejected him from being king over Israel? Fill your horn with oil and go; I will send you to Jesse the Bethlehemite | New American Standard Bible -

Now the LORD said to Samuel, “How long are you going to mourn for Saul, since I have rejected him from being king over Israel? Fill your horn with oil and go; I will send you to Jesse the Bethlehemite

bible.com

“Now Saul, still breathing threats and murder against the disciples of the Lord, went to the high priest, and asked for letters from him to the synagogues in Damascus, so that if he found any belonging to the Way, whether men or women, he might bring them in shackles to Jerusalem. Now as he was traveling, it happened that he was approaching Damascus, and suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him; and he fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?” And he said, “Who are You, Lord?” And He said, “I am Jesus whom you are persecuting, but get up and enter the city, and it will be told to you what you must do.””
‭‭Acts‬ ‭9‬:‭1‬-‭6‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Acts 9:1-6 Now Saul, still breathing threats and murder against the disciples of the Lord, went to the high priest, and asked for letters from him to the synagogues in Damascus, so that if he found any belonging | New American Standard Bible - NASB (

Now Saul, still breathing threats and murder against the disciples of the Lord, went to the high priest, and asked for letters from him to the synagogues in Damascus, so that if he found any belonging

bible.com

“then He appeared to James, then to all the apostles; and last of all, as to one untimely born, He appeared to me also. For I am the least of the apostles, and not fit to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me did not prove vain; but I labored even more than all of them, yet not I, but the grace of God with me. Whether then it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15‬:‭7‬-‭11‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

1 Corinthians 15:10 But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me did not prove vain; but I labored even more than all of them, yet not I, but the grace of God with me. | New American Standard Bible - NASB (NASB2020) | Download The

But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me did not prove vain; but I labored even more than all of them, yet not I, but the grace of God with me.

bible.com

Apostle



one who is sent off

An apostle (/əˈpɒsəl/), in its literal sense, is an emissary. The word is derived from Ancient Greek ἀπόστολος (apóstolos), literally "one who is sent off", itself derived from the verb ἀποστέλλειν (apostéllein), "to send off".


We never really hear from Matthias ever again.

Ditto

 

[Sigma]

The Roman Catholic Church does not recognize her or her writings, do they?

They haven't made an official decision either way yet. Individual popes, bishops, and other clergy, etc., believe her claims and have authorized publication of her literary works though.

And I don't want to say it, but she could be getting her information from another source, who also knows history, typology, architecture, geography, ethnology, chronology.

If you read about her you'll find that's not the case, and some information she wrote down wasn't known and proven to be true until after she died.

 

[ScottA]

All of these in the following list, are "sent" by Jesus.. Which is the "call" into the Ministry

Apostle (specific type of Missionary)
Prophet
Pastor (Bishop,Minister)
Evangelist
Teacher
Minstrel

The Apostolic ministry is unique...

Notice that the Book of Acts...Is the Acts of the Apostles.
its not the Acts of the Christian...and many denominations try to pretend they are "apostolic", and they are not.

Here is what separates the Apostle from the rest..

2nd Corinthians 12:12 = "The SIGNS of an Apostle".

See that?

That is SUPERNATURAL Manifestations of the Power of God.....Its the ability to do miracles.., as PROOF the person is an Apostle.

I'll show the reader a verse, that is often misused, that actually shows Paul doing these signs..

Hebrews 6.... "tasted the heavenly gift"....

And what is that?
That is a group of Christ hating Jews, who are watching an Apostle perform "signs' for them... "heavenly gifts"... "signs of an Apostle".

Why?

"Because JEWS require a SIGN".. and "SIGNS are for the JEWS"...

So, all over the "Acts of the Apostles" the Apostles are producing "signs of an Apostle".

I understand that is the common doctrinal belief among the church, however the word "apostle" simply means "one sent."

As for "the signs of an apostle", indeed, one sent is sent by the power of God to perform the gift that he is sent to do...and yet there are many gifts given by God all of which are by the power of God. Thus, I would caution you not to take the common belief as being greater than the simple understanding of "God with us" regarding spiritual gifts and those sent according His numerous purposes, for we who are His, reign with Christ.

 

[Cassandra]

They haven't made an official decision either way yet. The individual popes, bishops, and other clergy who have authorized publication though.



If you read about her you'll find that's not the case, and some information she wrote down wasn't known and proven to be true until after she died.

I think you are misunderstanding me about the "who."

2 Cor 11:14-1514 And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. 15 So it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds.

 

[Sigma]

I think you are misunderstanding me about the "who."

2 Cor 11:14-1514 And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. 15 So it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds.

Jesus says you shall know them by their fruits and that an evil tree cannot bear good fruit. I've read and own all of Maria Valtorta's literary works, and I and numerous others recognize that her writings come from Jesus and other heavenly persons. If you'd like to read some and see for yourself, you can for free here.

 

[ScottA]

The Bible is made up of multiple books, two of which are the Book of John and the Book of Revelation. Jn. 14:26 is from the Book of John and in it Jesus is speaking to the apostles telling them the Holy Spirit "will teach you all things, and remind you of all that I said to you." Rev. 22:18 is from the Book of Revelation, and thus it refers to that book specifically, not all the books that make up the Bible. And, with Maria Valtorta's work no addition was made to revelation, but only the gaps, brought about by natural causes and by supernatural will, were filled in.

I suspect that each of these points should be taken one at a time.

Indeed, there are specifics in the word of God, and there are also general terms. It is the general term of Christ being the Word of God which causes every word from God to be included when He says, "I have told you all things", of which the book of Revelation is the finish. But the overriding issue of adding or taking away, is that every word is from God and not from people...in which case Maria Valtorta is no exception.

Now, I am not familiar with Maria Valtorta, so if you are here to say you find what she has said or written to be in accord with God and from God, rather from Maria Valtorta, I have no objection. Which I say as one falsely accused of private interpretations. So again, I have no objection except to say that what is from God is from God alone, even by those used of Him. And, I don't want to derail the thread, but I would be interested--perhaps in another thread or private message, to know if you have biblical confirmation of God sending Maria and speaking through her.

 

[ScottA]

Maria Valtorta received dictations and visions from Jesus, the Blessed Virgin Mary, and an angel named Azariah. She was their "pen" who wrote what she heard and saw at their behest. I've read and own all her literary works. Jesus says you shall know them by their fruits and that an evil tree cannot bear good fruit. I and numerous others recognize that her writings come from Jesus and other heavenly persons.

You should read the testimonies and actual studies done by professionals in various fields, who've analyzed and tested the credibility of Maria Valtorta personally and her literary works. Below are just a few:

(i) The results from the mathematical analysis of Maria Valtorta's Work by Professor Emilio Matricciani and Dr. Liberato De Caro, where they concluded:

(ii) The results from the astronomical and meteorological analysis of Maria Valtorta's Work by Professor Emilio Matricciani and Dr. Liberato De Caro, where they concluded:

(iii) In David Webster, M.Div.'s chapter "Proof by Geography and Topography and Archaeology" of A Summa and Encyclopedia to Maria Valtorta’s Extraordinary Work, he relates:

(iv) In professional engineer Jean-François Lavère's The Valtorta Enigma, he writes:

That is not the test.

To the contrary, what if any biblical confirmation, can you present that confirms that she has been sent by God?

 

[rockytopva]

The twelve apostles do appear in Revelation 21...

And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. - Revelation 21:14

Apostle in the Greek is translated from the root words...
Apo - Separation and departure
Stao - To appoint and to stand

So the Apostles were appointed to be separated and to stand firm in the teachings on their departures. In which the Apostle Paul was faithful.... So... I have no problem with accepting Paul as the twelfth apostle filling in the departed shoes of Judas Iscariot.

 

[Sigma]

Indeed, there are specifics in the word of God, and there are also general terms. It is the general term of Christ being the Word of God which causes every word from God to be included when He says, "I have told you all things", of which the book of Revelation is the finish.

The Bible is made up of multiple books, two of which are the Book of John and the Book of Revelation. Jn. 14:26 is from the Book of John and in it Jesus didn't say to the apostles "I have told you all things", but rather told them that the Holy Spirit "will teach you all things, and remind you of all that I said to you." Rev. 22:18 is from the Book of Revelation and thus it refers to that book specifically, especially considering the very first sentence is "I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book..."

Now, I am not familiar with Maria Valtorta, so if you are here to say you find what she has said or written to be in accord with God and from God, rather from Maria Valtorta, I have no objection. Which I say as one falsely accused of private interpretations. So again, I have no objection except to say that what is from God is from God alone, even by those used of Him. And, I don't want to derail the thread, but I would be interested--perhaps in another thread or private message, to know if you have biblical confirmation of God sending Maria and speaking through her.

Again, she received dictations and visions from Jesus and other heavenly persons. She was their "pen" who wrote what she heard and saw at their behest. Therefore, everything she wrote is from God alone. What kind of "biblical confirmation" do you want that shows Maria Valtorta received dictations and visions from Jesus and other heavenly persons? Had you been chosen instead of Maria, how would you biblically confirm your experience?

 

[ScottA]

The Bible is made up of multiple books, two of which are the Book of John and the Book of Revelation. Jn. 14:26 is from the Book of John and in it Jesus didn't say to the apostles "I have told you all things", but rather told them that the Holy Spirit "will teach you all things, and remind you of all that I said to you." Rev. 22:18 is from the Book of Revelation and thus it refers to that book specifically, especially considering the very first sentence is "I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book..."

One at a time:

Mark 13:23​

But take heed; see, I have told you all things beforehand.​

 

[ScottA]

Again, she received dictations and visions from Jesus and other heavenly persons. She was their "pen" who wrote what she heard and saw at their behest. Therefore, everything she wrote is from God alone. What kind of "biblical confirmation" do you want that shows Maria Valtorta received dictations and visions from Jesus and other heavenly persons? Had you been chosen instead of Maria, how would you biblically confirm your experience?

No, that is not what I asked. But rather that your provide chapter and verse of scripture confirming that she is sent by God.

 

[Cassandra]

Jesus says you shall know them by their fruits and that an evil tree cannot bear good fruit. I've read and own all of Maria Valtorta's literary works, and I and numerous others recognize that her writings come from Jesus and other heavenly persons. If you'd like to read some and see for yourself, you can for free here.

You are very kind to answer me in the manner you did instead of getting angry. Thank you so much for the link.

Please. i don't want to offend but I believe that Mary is dead and awaiting the resurrection. That is the main reason I don't believe her writings are from Mary.

 

[Sigma]

One at a time:

Mark 13:23​

But take heed; see, I have told you all things beforehand.​

If you included the context, you'd see Jesus is saying he warned of things to come, which he did leading up that verse.

 

[ScottA]

If you included the context, you'd see Jesus is saying he warned of things to come, which he did leading up that verse.

When the Word of God says He has told you all things (in summary), it is He who has given the context. By definition, "all" means all.

 

[Sigma]

When the Word of God says He has told you all things, it is He who has given the context. By definition, "all" means all.

"All" meaning everything he had warned would happen in the previous verses you're leaving out.

 

[Sigma]

You are very kind to answer me in the manner you did instead of getting angry. Thank you so much for the link.

I appreciate your kindness too and you're welcome! If you do decide to read just to see, let me know your thoughts and ask any questions!

 

[ScottA]

"All" meaning everything he had warned would happen in the previous verses you're leaving out.

If you want to tell Jesus that He is out of context when summarizing in Mark, feel free.

 

[Sigma]

If you want to tell Jesus that He is out of context when summarizing in Mark, feel free.

Jesus gave the context. You left it out.

 

[Sigma]

...provide chapter and verse of scripture confirming that she is sent by God.

Had you been chosen instead of Maria Valtorta to receive dictations and visions from Jesus and other heavenly persons, and write down all you heard and saw at their behest, how would you biblically confirm your experience? Your answer to that will help me understand what kind of verse you're looking for.