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The Two Houses of Israel

Discussion in 'Christian Spirituality Forum' started by Episkopos, Jun 14, 2019.

  1. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    There is a mystery to this. Jesus has 2 separate flocks that come together under His Headship.

    There is the flock of natural Israel...that comes to Christ in the NT times...but who were tamim and shalem in the OT. And there is the flock that is spiritual but from the nations. These are they who are born from above.

    Israel is both a nation and a church of nations according to God in Genesis. (Goy ouKehal Goyim) (Gen. 35:11)

    Historically these have been first the natural and then the spiritual.

    But it is only they who are of the Spirit that are Israel today...being neither male nor female, Jew nor Greek.

    Are all Jews a part of Israel? No.

    Are all Gentiles who are Christians part of Israel? No.

    It is a remnant of each.

    Israel is the Bride of Christ.

    Our calling is the calling of saints who would be a part of the Bride.
     
  2. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    According to Scripture, all Jews are a part of the nation of Israel, but only a believing remnant of Jews is a part of believing (or saved) Israel.

    In any event the two houses of Israel have nothing to do with the Church (redeemed Jews and Gentiles in one Body).

    That phrase is a reference to (1) the northern kingdom of Israel and (2) the southern kingdom of Judah. That split was definitely not according to God's plan for Israel, so AFTER the Second Coming of Christ, Israel will be one undivided, redeemed, and restored kingdom of Israel, with Christ as King and David as prince over Israel for eternity. For those who may not be aware, this is all recorded in the prophecy of Ezekiel (as well as in the
    Prophets ).
     
  3. Earburner

    Earburner Well-Known Member

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    Aren't you making way too much out that, for the sake of supporting other doctrines?
    .
    Israel ceased to exist in 722BC by the Assyrians.
    So, it has nothing to do with the House of Israel or the House of Judah.
    .
    However, Jesus did "stand" upon the mount of Olives, in His first appearance.
    Zech. 14[4] And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
    Today, Israel is still split in two physically, the House of Israel and the House of Judah.
    Therefore Zech. 14:4 is not about 722BC, nor is it of anything to do with a futuristic, religious dream, of a Millennium on Earth, but rather NOW, being The Age of God's Grace through Christ.
    .
    Now let's look at the context following:
    [6] And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
    > Not a literal day/night of sunlight, but rather His Light!

    [7] But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
    > Again not sunlight, but rather The Light of the Lord.

    [8] And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
    [9] And the LORD shall be king over all the earth:
    in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.
    > When did the Lord's "Living Waters" go out from Jerusalem?
    Ans. On the Day of Pentecost.
     
  4. Earburner

    Earburner Well-Known Member

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    Zech. 14:4
    Just examining the following, shall reveal that it has nothing to do with the literal Geography of Israel:
    ...the mount of Olives shall cleave [divide/split] in the midst thereof [a figurative line drawn]
    toward the east and
    toward the west
    ,
    and there shall be a very great valley [Gulf]
    W <----V---> E

    and half of the moun-tain [not the mount Olives, but rather the "mountain" of Israel]
    shall remove toward the north,
    and half of it
    toward the south.
    N/---v---/S
    Mat. 12[25] And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand.
    > Which are those Jews who believe in the Messiah Jesus and those who don't!
    .
    Luke 16[26] And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf [valley] fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
    > the difference between those who are saved in Jesus, and those who are not. New creatures vs. Natural men.
     
  5. Earburner

    Earburner Well-Known Member

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    Oh, and I might add this-
    Luke 12: 51-53
    [51] Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:
    [52] For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three.
     
  6. ScottA

    ScottA Well-Known Member

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    Israel and Judah are a foreshadowing of the two "folds" of Christ fulfilling God's promise to Abraham that in his "seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed."
     
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  7. Earburner

    Earburner Well-Known Member

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    And that blessing is through faith in Jesus!
     
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  8. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    Amen Scott. Everything is to come under the Headship of Christ.
     
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  9. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    OK You're on to me! :)

    I think that it is important to understand where we who have been born of the Spirit fit in with Israel. Otherwise we wouldn't be able to see "ourselves" in the warnings as well as the blessings of the scriptures. Does God love we of the nations more than natural Israel? No. There is no favouritism with God. He loves all His children in a righteous and equal manner.

    The point becomes that the Jews saw favour from God as a right...they became spoiled as it were. They felt entitled to blessings from God. But this attitude led them astray...they were not careful to maintain the fear of the Lord.

    And this should serve as a warning to all who come into favour or the grace of God.

    Paul warns us...

    Rom. 11:21 For if God did not at all spare the natural branches, neither will He spare you.

    Does this apply to born again Christians as well? Well of course. We are still human. The Jews were brought into the fold of God by natural means...and we by faith and supernatural means. But the result is that we become God's flock..His people.


    Paul says we ought to fear and not boast ourselves as superior to the Jews. As we all know...how prevalent anti-Semitism has been in the church.

    Paul says that SOME of the original branches were broken off the the vine ...and who is that vine? The Vine is Jesus Christ.

    Rom. 11:17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, although a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing root of the olive tree,

    We see the pattern continuing with...

    John 15:2 He cuts off every branch in Me that bears no fruit, and every branch that does bear fruit, He prunes to make it even more fruitful.

    So then we are not greater nor lesser than the original people called to be God's people. We have been given an opportunity to "make our calling and election sure" by a continuing faithfulness in the fear of the Lord. We must never become proud or become slack and feel ourselves as being "entitled" to the favour of God. He is a righteous judge.
     
  10. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    So then seeing we have a new spiritual birth to enter into the fold of God...compared with a carnal birth of natural Israel...does this give us an advantage?

    Yes and no.

    First only a few Jews will turn to Christ in order to be quickened by the Spirit. Just as few of us from the nations will do so.

    So we have to compare like with like.

    Of course the nations have far more many people than natural Israel. We are talking billions compared to maybe 25 million.

    So then as the bible says Ephraim will be greater than Manasseh.

    In fact...the sons of Joseph...the half-tribes...these represent the church of Christ.

    The Jews see Manasseh as representing Moses. They are the same in written form except for an extra nun....a seed...which I take to be the seed which is Christ. Add Christ to Moses and you get spiritual Manasseh.

    There is even a verse in the MSS that has a raised nun...in the name of Manasseh...that reveals the name of Moses.

    Here is Moses written in Hebrew...
    מֹשֶׁה

    Here is Manasseh...
    מְנַשֶּׁה

    There is a nun in the word....a seed.

    And strangely in the MSS there is a verse that has a raised nun...showing that these are related...

    (I actually and unfortunately can't reproduce the effect here...as the type is corrected to put it back as it should be.) But the raised nun is located at Judges 18:30

    So then even though Manasseh is the older brother...the blessing goes to the younger brother Ephraim....who represents the churches of the nations who are in Christ.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2019
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  11. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    כג כֹּה-אָמַר, יְהוָה צְבָאוֹת, בַּיָּמִים הָהֵמָּה, אֲשֶׁר יַחֲזִיקוּ עֲשָׂרָה אֲנָשִׁים מִכֹּל לְשֹׁנוֹת הַגּוֹיִם; וְהֶחֱזִיקוּ בִּכְנַף אִישׁ יְהוּדִי לֵאמֹר, נֵלְכָה עִמָּכֶם--כִּי שָׁמַעְנוּ, אֱלֹהִים עִמָּכֶם.

    Zech. 8:23 "Thus says the LORD of hosts, 'In those days ten men from all the (tongues of the) nations will grasp the garment of a Jew, saying, "Let us go with you, for we have heard that God is with you."


    This prophecy has taken place. The faith that was transmitted to the Jews was passed on through them to the Gentiles of every tongue. Is the bible not written by Jews? Were not the first ministers of the gospel Jewish? So then salvation is of the Jews.

    Why ten?

    This represents the 10 northern tribes of Israel referred to as Ephraim. Notice it doesn't say that there are 10 men from 10 nations...but from ALL nations. Meaning this is a representation of the 10 tribes of Israel in ALL nations.

    And Ephraim is by faith in a new spiritual BIRTH...NOT a natural birth. It is according to God not men.
     
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  12. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    Gentiles grafted into Israel? The Israel of God is a spiritual people taken from all of mankind through a spiritual birth and into a spiritual life.

    Hos. 1:10 Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.

    Unto Whom? Unto the children of israel. Look how many sons God is bringing into Israel from all nations and tongues! They who were once NOT His people are now the sons of the living God. Paul confirms that this indeed is speaking of the nations (Gentiles).

    Rom. 9:24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
    25 As he saith also in Osee, (Hosea)I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
    26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.



    Hos. 1:11 Then shall the children of Judah and the children of Israel be gathered together, and appoint themselves one head, and they shall come up out of the land: for great shall be the day of Jezreel.

    Of two flocks...One New Man. As two sticks that become one in the hand of God.

    Ez. 37:19 Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.
    22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all.
    24 And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.
    27 My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
     
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  13. dorian37grey

    dorian37grey Member

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    * ezekiel 23 TWO SISTERS
    * BOTH were in egypt
    * BOTH were God's
    a verse to ponder ;
    Isaiah 19:25
    The Lord Almighty will bless them, saying, “Blessed be Egypt my people, Assyria my handiwork, and Israel my inheritance.”
    ~~~~ my people ? who are these ?
    at the end of david and solomon a change takes place ;
    israel is divided into 2 parts / kingdoms
    ( my people) 10 tribes are pulled away -- they have kings of israel ; they are the northern tribes ; they carry with them --- the promises given to the sons of Joseph ( by Jacob ) *** THEY ARE NOT !!! JEWS ; THEY ARE ISRAEL
    Judah ( my inheritance ) is given Benjamin ( FOR David's sake ) ;they have kings of Judah ; they are the southern tribes ; they carry with them --- the promises given to Judah( by Jacob )

    THIS EVENT ; the division of these two ; mark what happens in the rest of the old testament
    there are 4 stages
    1- DIVORCE of the northern tribes ( orphans; fatherless) ( ELIJAH ; ISAIAH;)
    2- "AT" the captivity of Judah ( JEREMIAH STORY)
    3- "GOING IN " ( Daniel story )
    4- "coming out " ( the Ezra story )
    AFTER THE EVENT --- its all about prophets and captivity ; and the world awaits the savior THAT HAPPENS IN THE NEW TESTAMENT ;
    A PARABLE ; THE WIDOW and 2 COINS ;
    WHAT are the JEWS when JESUS dies ? (( widowed)) and the 2 coins TRIBES of Judah and Benjamin :)

    many of the parables of JESUS ARE THE CONTRAST of these 2 ; north and south
     
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  14. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    And the northern tribes of Israel are sifted through all nations, tribes, and tongues. :) So to be intermixed with all Gentiles.

    When the believing remnant of the Gentiles come into the fold of faith ...that is what constitutes ALL Israel. Both Judah and now Israel (of the Spirit) are made complete in One New Man in Christ.
     
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  15. dorian37grey

    dorian37grey Member

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    Isaiah 19:25
    The Lord Almighty will bless them, saying, “Blessed be Egypt my people, Assyria my handiwork, and Israel my inheritance.”

    right ;
    ISRAEL is 12 tribes
    when they are put into a kingdoms they have the 10 part and the 2 part

    Leviticus 19:34
    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the Lord your God
    * those who have come to accepting Jesus MUST BE COUNTED AS NATIVE BORN
    THIS IS THE HANDIWORK ~~ ASSYRIA :)Assyria my handiwork,
     
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  16. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    Why Assyria? As opposed to Egypt...or any other country for that matter?
     
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  17. dorian37grey

    dorian37grey Member

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    OK HERE GOES
    HERE ISRAEL -- is seen as Judah ( this is rare)
    egypt are the northern tribes led by Joseph's 2 sons 1/2 egyptian
    assyria represents the rest of the world

    next we go to the talents parable
    2 to 5
    5 to 10
    and one alone

    we need to see the 2 groups/ kingdoms ( which you do )
    notice ; a son from the wife Jacob loved is in each :)
    benjamin the south ; joseph the north

    benjamin when he is seat with his brother before joseph --- GETS 5 TIMES THE FOOD ( 2 becomes 5 ) my inheritance
    joseph when it comes to land division gets 2x everyone --- 5 benjamin x 2 =10 ( the north is the 5 x 2 =10) my people
    the world the ones who do accept --- where do they go ?

    in the story do they become Jews ? does the talent go to the five ? ---- no
    the one talent goes to the 10 and are counted as native born
     
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