The Unbeliever's Judgment

[fivesense]

And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is [the book] of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. (Revelations 20:11-15)

There is as many opinions on this as there are people. It is a serious and solemn matter that should cause all saints to be certain of the proper understanding of it, to accord with the word of God, in order to supply what the unbeliever needs, should God be drawing him or her to His Son for salvation. I am hoping to enable direction and comfort in the Scriptures that I have recovered for myself that has allowed me to walk in grace and faith with Him and others of likemindedness. It is my hope that myths and reasonings will take a blow, and God's truth will establish itself. This is my prayer.

One of the main points of notation at the Great White Throne judgment is who will be there. I know of two groups that won't be there.The chosen and elect of the Israel, including those whose names were written in the Book of the life of the Lamb, and the Body of Christ.

That leaves billions upon billions of others to be brought back from the grave, doesn't it?

The decree of God is that all who are outside of the two previous classes above, will suffer and be condemned to death after being resurrected again.

Ro 2:9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

This is judgement and it is justice. And God will be vindicated and seen as righteous and true in all His ways.

The casting into the Lake of Fire of all mankind, outside the two classes, is the start of the Second Death.

Satan, the beast, and the false prophet were there first. Only they do not experience death by being cast into the Lake.

I opened this post in response to a request to provide a forum for Luke 12:47, and the fate of all the ingnorant and unbelieving.

And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not [himself], neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many [stripes]. But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few [stripes]. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

I would enjoy hearing from all, and certain others as well.

fivesense

 

[gregg]

the Lord here talks about a servent that did his will and received reward. Then a servant that did not do his will but knew his will and recieved many stripes.Then a stranger that did not know the Lord yet did wrong but still recieved stripes.Some would want to use these verses to point to a purgatory.This would give them some means of excaping the lake of fire.remember the one talent and that unprofitable servant.He was cast into outer darkness.So maybe you excape the fire but recieve your stripes in outer darkness.if we do his will now this will be of no concern latter to us only to the ones that did not do right by the Lord.I have noticed that the ones who wish for a purgatory system are lacking in faith.

 

[Miss Hepburn]

Since purgatory was mentioned I wonder if anyone would find this link interesting....
I happen to really "like" Theresa of Lisieux...she was her own person...

http://www.franciscan-sfo.org/ap/litfwrpu.htm

 

[bud02]

Since purgatory was mentioned I wonder if anyone would find this link interesting....
I happen to really "like" Theresa of Lisieux...she was her own person...

http://www.francisca...ap/litfwrpu.htm

Miss Hepburn,
I would like to point you to a post of mine in response to one of yours.
http://www.christian...dpost__p__88235

The OP of this thread my find my understanding of death and hell as another possible point to consider.
by following the link above.

Or a careful reading of Hebrews might shed some light.

[sup]24[/sup] For Christ has not entered the holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us; [sup]25[/sup] not that He should offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood of another— [sup]26[/sup] He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. [sup]27[/sup] And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, [sup]28[/sup] so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.

 

[logabe]

And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is [the book] of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. (Revelations 20:11-15)

There is as many opinions on this as there are people. It is a serious and solemn matter that should cause all saints to be certain of the proper understanding of it, to accord with the word of God, in order to supply what the unbeliever needs, should God be drawing him or her to His Son for salvation. I am hoping to enable direction and comfort in the Scriptures that I have recovered for myself that has allowed me to walk in grace and faith with Him and others of likemindedness. It is my hope that myths and reasonings will take a blow, and God's truth will establish itself. This is my prayer.

One of the main points of notation at the Great White Throne judgment is who will be there. I know of two groups that won't be there.The chosen and elect of the Israel, including those whose names were written in the Book of the life of the Lamb, and the Body of Christ.

That leaves billions upon billions of others to be brought back from the grave, doesn't it?

The decree of God is that all who are outside of the two previous classes above, will suffer and be condemned to death after being resurrected again.

Ro 2:9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

This is judgement and it is justice. And God will be vindicated and seen as righteous and true in all His ways.

The casting into the Lake of Fire of all mankind, outside the two classes, is the start of the Second Death.

Satan, the beast, and the false prophet were there first. Only they do not experience death by being cast into the Lake.

I opened this post in response to a request to provide a forum for Luke 12:47, and the fate of all the ingnorant and unbelieving.

And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not [himself], neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many [stripes]. But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few [stripes]. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

I would enjoy hearing from all, and certain others as well.

fivesense

Fivesence...I would like to comment on spirit of the Law which is what
Jesus is referring to in Luke 12;47.

Moses learned firsthand how God trains His people. Circumstances
forced Moses into the harsh wilderness, where the sun of righteousness
beat down upon him, driving him by heat, by hunger, and by thirst into
the merciless sand.

Moses faced many adverse circumstances during the next 40 years,
which taught him how to rely upon God in numerous impossible situations.
In trying circumstances, where he could turn to no one else, he had only
one way to handle it: PRAYER. When Moses emerged from the
wilderness 40 years later, he was a very different person. He had been
refined 40 years by the fiery sword of the cherubim into the type of man
capable of forming a new nation and leading them to the Promised Land.

After Moses, it became Israel’s turn to learn the same lessons in the same
harsh wilderness where Moses had met God. God led them first into a trap
by the Red Sea. He put Israel’s gold into a refining solution, which suddenly
brought out their inner FEAR of Pharaoh. How else could this worthless
impurity have been made manifest? God did this on purpose, not to make
them afraid, but to bring their fear to light so it could be eliminated as dross
by the mighty hand of God as He opened a way through the Red Sea.

God led them through hunger and thirst and through enemy territory. It was
no picnic on the way to the Kingdom. It was hard training. But God will have
no spoiled brats inheriting His Kingdom. Hebrews 12:6 says:

6 For those whom the Lord loves He disciplines, and He scourges
every son whom He receives.

If anyone would rather go the easier route or if any would envy the wicked
who seem to have it all, keep in mind that this is the mark of an illegitimate
son, not a true son of God (Hebrews 12:8).

His sons have a great task ahead of ruling over cities, regions, and nations
He will give these jobs to those who are called. And those He calls, He also
trains in order to qualify them for rulership. And so He comes to purge His
people. He sits as a refiner of silver and of gold. He comes as the Sun of
righteousness to heal us inwardly of the pollution of the world. He comes
as a fire to try our faith as gold (1 Peter 1:7). This is the true baptism of fire,
which He has already kindled upon the earth.

Now Fivesence...let's get to the root of this matter. What is God telling us?

I believe the key is found in Jesus’ teaching in Luke 12:35-50. Jesus speaks
of “the faithful and sensible steward whom his master will put in charge of his
servants” (12:42). Such people, Jesus says, will be given a place of rulership
and responsibility. This says essentially the same thing as Revelation 20:4,
where those of the first resurrection “came to life and reigned with Christ for
a thousand years.”

There is, however, another kind of servant, or “slave.” Keep in mind that he
is still called God’s “slave,” a believer, but he is not “blessed and holy” by
any means. Jesus continues in verse 45 of Luke 12:

45 But if that slave says in his heart, ‘My master will be a long
time in coming,’ and begins to beat the slaves, both men and
women, and to eat and drink and get drunk;
46 the master of that slave will come on a day when he does
not expect him, and at an hour he does not know, and will cut
him in pieces [dichotomeo, “to cut up by severely beating”],
and assign him a place [meros, “portion, part that is due, lot”]
with the unbelievers.

In other words, these unsanctified slaves, who had been given authority
over other slaves, but who abused their position, will NOT be given authority
in the age to come. Instead, they will be beaten with stripes according to the
law found in Deuteronomy 25. Furthermore, Jesus says they will receive their
portion, or allotment “with the unbelievers,” that is, AT THE SAME TIME the
unbelievers get their portion.

This does not mean their portions are the same as the unbelievers. Jesus
made this clear in the next few verses when He said that the unsanctified
servant will receive either few or many stripes (lashes), according to his
deeds. It does NOT say that he will be classed as an unbeliever or that he
will lose his portion (allotted inheritance). It merely says that he will not
receive his portion in the resurrection of the just. He will get his portion
along with the unbelievers at the Great White Throne.


Keep in mind that in God’s Law, a beating was a punishment that was done
immediately in front of the judge and was strictly limited to 40 stripes
(Deut. 25:3). Other punishments, such as restitution, required a sentence
that normally took time for the sinner to work off the debt. And so Jesus
uses the term “many stripes” and “few stripes” to indicate an intense but
quick form of correction that is administered according to their knowledge
of the Lord’s will.

They will not be thrown into “the lake of fire” mentioned in Revelation 20
during that long, final Age, for that is the fate of the unsaved. Nonetheless,
such believers will indeed be judged in a lesser manner. I believe that this
is the judgment Paul mentions in 1 Corinthians 3:15.

11 For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is
laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 Now if any man builds upon the foundation with gold, silver,
precious stones, wood, hay, straw,
13 each man's work will become evident; for the day will show it,
because it is to be revealed with fire; and the fire itself will test
the quality of each man's work.
14 If any man's work which he has built upon it remains, he shall
receive a reward.
15 If any man's work is burned up, he shall suffer loss; but he
himself shall be saved, yet so as through fire.

I do not believe that this fire is literal. They will, however, be judged
according to God’s fiery law, which in this case is up to 40 stripes.
Christians in whom Jesus Christ is laid as a foundation, but who built
upon that Foundation with wood, hay, and stubble, will suffer loss.
They will be held accountable for their works, the things they built
upon their foundation of faith in Jesus Christ. Their WORKS and their
flawed CHARACTER will be tried by fire and will be burned. This will
not destroy them, but will purify them by chastisement and make them
fit for the Kingdom of God.

Logabe

 

[Foreigner]

Logabe is again preaching "Universal Reconciliation" and it falls apart when you point out two basic scriptures:



And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the [world] to come." -- Matt. 12:32


Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." - Matt 7:21



Now if Logabe follows his usual pattern he will now post snippets from F.W. Farrar, Campbell Morgan, Charles H. Welch, and R.F. Weymouth. All of them are followers of "Universal Reconciliation" and all of them are wrong.

For example, in another post Logabe made:



"Charles H. Welch, editor of The Berean Expositor,
wrote in an Alphabetical Analysis, Vol. I

(Page 52) What we have to learn is that the Bible does not speak
of eternity. It is not written to tell us of eternity. Such a consideration
is entirely outside the scope of revelation.

(Page 279) Eternity is not a Biblical theme."


-- If this is true, then that means the concept of spending eternity with God is itself null and void, does it not?

 

[logabe]

Logabe is again preaching "Universal Reconciliation" and it falls apart when you point out two basic scriptures:

And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the [world] to come." -- Matt. 12:32


Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." - Matt 7:21



Now if Logabe follows his usual pattern he will now post snippets from F.W. Farrar, Campbell Morgan, Charles H. Welch, and R.F. Weymouth. All of them are followers of "Universal Reconciliation" and all of them are wrong.

For example, in another post Logabe made:



"Charles H. Welch, editor of The Berean Expositor,
wrote in an Alphabetical Analysis, Vol. I

(Page 52) What we have to learn is that the Bible does not speak
of eternity. It is not written to tell us of eternity. Such a consideration
is entirely outside the scope of revelation.

(Page 279) Eternity is not a Biblical theme."


-- If this is true, then that means the concept of spending eternity with God is itself null and void, does it not?

Foreigner...I used them men because you wouldn't listen to Paul when
he spoke about the whole creation. Romans:8:19-22 says,

19 For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly
for the revealing of the sons of God.
20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not of its
own will, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope
[expectation]
21 that the creation itself also will be set free from its
slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of
the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groans and
suffers the pains of childbirth together until now.

Foreigner...I have a question for you. What is your definition of
WHOLE CREATION?

Paul says at some point in history the WHOLE CREATION will
be set free from this slavery that we live in at the present. Now
Foreigner, Paul said this, not me...do you believe what Paul said?

Paul makes it clear that the creation had no choice in being
subjected to "futility" and to "slavery to corruption." It was done
by the sovereign will of God alone. Futility, vanity, or emptiness
describe a path that appears to go nowhere and has no purpose.
When Adam sinned, his sin was imputed to all mankind. We all
became liable for Adam's sin, and thus we are all mortal, paying
for a sin which we did not commit. And not only mankind, but ALL
OF CREATION was subjected to this "corruption."

I am so pleased that God didn't leave our Salvation to us because,
we would have put 99% of His people in hell for eternity.

By the way...I told you I was not a Universalist...but if that is what
you want to call me... it's okay.

Foreigner...do you know the difference between you and I? You
believe I am wrong and a heretic.You probably believe I am going
to a very hot hell. I believe you are wrong but you will still make it.
God loves you so much that He will not leave you in your error. I
believe he will leave the 99 and come and find you. Foreigner...
He will never give up on you...it's impossible.

Logabe