The Unity Thread

[Helen]

.Just like the Jewish people, who thought their Messiah should be a conquering hero.....we mistake doctrinal agreement as the path to unity rather than love.

Doctrinalism is tribal.......love is universal

Amen...you are 'on a roll ' today.

 

[Dcopymope]

?
the Body is alive and well, we are currently arriving at unity over "me too," and several other concepts

At what point is this "unity" supposed to arrive??? I see a body that's been dismembered into several groups. Some are even at odds with each other over something as petty as Gods name and how to pronounce it, a damn sound in the air. They even claim others are not saved because of it.

 

[Butterfly]

Cathey..
she was on Nancy's, also on Kerry's as Heartsong. Other names too, but I forget them all. It;s all I can do to remember my own.
Remember she went though some heavy stuff health-wise....so she was off the grid for a bit...

Sorry Cathey, speaking for you!!

Yes I remember xxxxx

 

[Truth]

It breaks my heart to see the Body of Christ in the state it's in. I hate how brothers and sisters can be so bitter and hateful to one another just because of theological disagreements. Jesus said this is how the world will know we're His disciples:

John 13:35 “By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.”

Sure, we're going to have disagreements and differences of opinion. But that doesn't mean we can't love each other and be on the same team. This world has enough evil and bad stuff in it that we who are in the same family don't need to add to it and be at each other's throats. Imagine what God's people could accomplish if we would spend less time trying to prove we're right and other Christians are wrong, and we worked together to see the gospel brought to our communities and to the world. The Bible has this to say about how powerful unity is:

Psalms 133:1 A Song of Ascents, of David. Behold, how good and how pleasant it is For brothers to dwell together in unity!
Psalms 133:2 It is like the precious oil upon the head, Coming down upon the beard, [Even] Aaron’s beard, Coming down upon the edge of his robes.
Psalms 133:3 It is like the dew of Hermon Coming down upon the mountains of Zion; For there the LORD commanded the blessing–life forever.

So I apologize for promoting division in the name of trying to prove I am right, and I hope others will come alongside of me. This thread is for any discussion that will look past our differences and promote unity in the Body of Christ.

I have just read the OP, nothing else, and this was my hope when I came to this site, to get down under and to lift up, and to bring about discussions that strengthen, and edify the Body, not go into who is and who isn't right. It was the Love of God that drew me to the Gift of Salvation, Thank You for your Love for the Body. The book of John responds to this very issue, How do we know we love God, because we love the Breathern!!! Simplify, its just that simple

 

[Frank Lee]

Once again friends there is no competition for last place. The place Jesus took as the example.

Being right is not as important as being right with God. There is a difference.

Once in a dispute years ago with my teen daughter during those trying years, she became very angry at me and stalked off to her room. After a moment to gather myself I went to her door and knocked. After going in I faced her and asked her to come to me. Hesitantly she came and she did, expecting I think, a stern correction. Instead I took her in my arms hugging her to me telling her how much I loved her and how much she meant to me. That our differences were not that important.

She just broke and wept and we were wonderfully restored.

So many times I've gone to Jesus expecting a blow. Instead He gave me a spiritual hug and an encouraging verse of scripture to look up.

One night after being awakened by a God sent chilling dream I call "the Great Iron jaws", I awakened gripped with anxiety. The dream was about hell. I don't know if I described it here or not. At any rate He immediately gave me the scripture which I hasted to look up!

Hebrews 10:35 KJVS
Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward.

I breathed a great sigh of relief.

His knowing that I needed a lift after such a severe revelation blessed me greatly. To have witnessed such a dream without reassurance would have been terrible.

We must be able to show His love to those misdirected souls that ignore love and edification and only rejoice in some kind of hollow victory after brow beating others into a stunned, wounded silence. Why they push and push is a mystery to me.

But they're everywhere as you well know!

Love is as superior to winning some kind of argument as the heavens are above the earth. There is no way to describe the love of God and the magnitude if it.


It's taken me a long time to learn not to be drawn into fruitless strife... The Scriptures describe exactly these that sow strife.

1 Timothy 6:3-5 NASB
If anyone advocates a different doctrine and does not agree with sound words, those of our Lord Jesus Christ, and with the doctrine conforming to godliness, [4] he is conceited and understands nothing; but he has a morbid interest in controversial questions and disputes about words, out of which arise envy, strife, abusive language, evil suspicions, [5] and constant friction between men of depraved mind and deprived of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain.

 

[Marymog]

Well.........we won't, that's why it always makes me chuckle when someone claims that there is really this thing called the "body of Christ"

. If such unity exists at all, it doesn't exist to the extent God intended, like it was in its inception. As long as Satan is allowed to go on about his business in creating division, there will never be true "unity" to any meaningful degree. To entertain such notions is a sick joke to me.

I agree that unity doesn't exist in the whole of Christianity because the divider is very effective. However, there is unity in His Church.

You say "there will never be true "unity" to any meaningful degree". I tend to believe that Jesus prayer, that we will all be One, will prevail. Not the dividers desire that we all not be One.

Mary

 

[bbyrd009]

At what point is this "unity" supposed to arrive??? I see a body that's been dismembered into several groups. Some are even at odds with each other over something as petty as Gods name and how to pronounce it, a damn sound in the air. They even claim others are not saved because of it.

ok, i can answer this Burning Question, but i would say examine your question a little first, and the answer flows from it; or iow change your perceptions here, and your question will be revealed

"At what point is this "unity" supposed to arrive?"
how are you defining 'this unity?' See, when you say "this unity," you must also have a preconceived notion of what 'this unity' is supposed to look like, right? Haven't we all pretty much made up our minds what this is supposed to look like? Iow at least be open to the perception that it will not look like that at all, and that that has been arrived at by -mancers, and mutual desire/acceptance.

bring the warring members of your body in, pluck the eye (that is your lamp) out, if it sins against you, like here,

"I see a body that's been dismembered"
then by definition that is not the Body, and you are looking in the wrong place imo. Dismembered bodies are a part of the world.
When you are One, as We are One, your perception of these outside agents as scapegoats, or as needing your help, or as being inferior to you, or for that matter even separate from you will all fade away, as strange or impossible as that sounds.

iow "they" are not going to change any--well, they certainly will, too, as they change, some new theys will take their place, etc--but your perception of "them" is what will change, and this is what will bring Unity, because they are going to notice when your perception of them changes, and they are going to be changed by that, immediately, visibly even.

and you have already experienced this more than once, i'm sure; i'm not telling any secrets or anything right

 

[Helen]

I have just read the OP, nothing else, and this was my hope when I came to this site, to get down under and to lift up, and to bring about discussions that strengthen, and edify the Body, not go into who is and who isn't right. It was the Love of God that drew me to the Gift of Salvation, Thank You for your Love for the Body. The book of John responds to this very issue, How do we know we love God, because we love the Breathern!!! Simplify, its just that simple

Wow, what a lovely post to read...It is nice to find we do have some kindred spirit here, we may not always agree doctrinally , but our hearts can always agree on the things that really matter.
I'm glad that you finally found this thread.

Bless you...Helen

 

[Helen]

Why do we search to find that which God says that we already have!!

Ephesians 4 3 "Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. 4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
... unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ."

Paul charges the Church to KEEP what it has been given by God.
And, enough grace is given to us for that very thing. When we don't, we are choosing not to.
We are not "trying to find unity" we have been given it by God...our job is to live in it!! That is our test.

 

[forrestcupp]

Well.........we won't, that's why it always makes me chuckle when someone claims that there is really this thing called the "body of Christ"

. If such unity exists at all, it doesn't exist to the extent God intended, like it was in its inception. As long as Satan is allowed to go on about his business in creating division, there will never be true "unity" to any meaningful degree. To entertain such notions is a sick joke to me.

That doesn't mean that we shouldn't do our part to promote unity, instead of causing division. Your attitude reminds me of when my kids see trash on the floor, rather than cleaning it up, they think it's ok to just throw more trash on the floor. No, we have to all work together to do our part in making things better.

I feel like my girl friend , whom I have know since we were 4 and 5 years of age... is my sister !

We lived one house apart , till we got married....... we stood up to each others wedding !

And now we are 81 and 82........ and we do not see each other any more. But we write letters.... she has no computer any more.
Well,

I asked her if she was saved, since I was the one who brought her to my church, she was not going to any .

That was the Catholic church then..... and I told her to bring some money. She did, and as we walked in , back then 1951? The church had
statues of angles holding the holy water you blessed your self with and she put her money in that, I backed her up and told her no.
and took it out.... So after that we went to church together as a lot of other things.

But when our children were older they started to go to other church's, and got us to go and then we became saved... My family !
my husband and I and our 3 children.

Just the last year or two, it hit me that my girl friend was still going [catholic church ] and I asked her if she was saved ! She said yes, and I asked her how ? and it was not good...... so I sent a track from our church she did not mention any thing about it.

Any way I asked her again to explain and now it sounds to me that she is........ What relief that is.

I'm actually really happy to hear this. I saw you talking about this situation once before, and you were worried about how to approach her. It does my heart good to hear your follow-up that you did talk to her, and you're satisfied that she is saved!

 

[VictoryinJesus]

This thread is for any discussion that will look past our differences and promote unity in the Body of Christ.

Matthew 12:25
[25] And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:

It is a certainty: every Kingdom divided is made desolate. Every house divided, falls.

Matthew 23:38
[38] Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

We see the certainty of the Word in: Daniel 2:44 [44] And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

2 Samuel 7:13
[13] He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever.

A house not divided. A house not desolate. A house that will stand. So then it is safe to say the division we see is not division in His house, the house of God. Everything else that is divided will be made desolate. God doesn't lie.

Hebrews 12:26-29
[26] Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven. [27] And this word , Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain. [28] Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear: [29] For our God is a consuming fire.

His word cannot fail.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms,

Forget what I posted earlier. It may be seriously wrong. God sets up a Kingdom that "shall break in pieces and consume all these Kingdoms". Considering the Lord said His body was broken for us and we admit that in every denomination there are believers...Is this division His Kingdom consuming and subduing all unti Christ? Is the body exactly where He wants it to be, within all?

 

[forrestcupp]

Forget what I posted earlier. It may be seriously wrong. God sets up a Kingdom that "shall break in pieces and consume all these Kingdoms". Considering the Lord said His body was broken for us and we admit that in every denomination there are believers...Is this division His Kingdom consuming and subduing all unti Christ? Is the body exactly where He wants it to be, within all?

No, I don't think it's where He wants it to be with the division we're experiencing. There is one big difference between what you're saying and what it should be. The body is made up of many different members that do different things, but they all have one common goal, and are controlled by the thoughts and intents of the same head. In the Body of Christ, Jesus is our head. So even though we have many different local churches that serve different purposes, we should all be unified by the same Head (Christ) who directs all of our paths toward a common goal. You may not look or operate like me, spiritually, and that's ok. Not everyone is an eye or an ear. We all have different purposes, but we're all a part of the same body moving in the same overall direction.

 

[amadeus]

No, I don't think it's where He wants it to be with the division we're experiencing. There is one big difference between what you're saying and what it should be. The body is made up of many different members that do different things, but they all have one common goal, and are controlled by the thoughts and intents of the same head. In the Body of Christ, Jesus is our head. So even though we have many different local churches that serve different purposes, we should all be unified by the same Head (Christ) who directs all of our paths toward a common goal. You may not look or operate like me, spiritually, and that's ok. Not everyone is an eye or an ear. We all have different purposes, but we're all a part of the same body moving in the same overall direction.

Everyone that is really connected and subject to the Head is unified in Him no matter where else they are. I believe that anyone who separates himself from another person who loves God and his neighbor because of church affiliation or because anything else has separated himself from the Body of Christ no matter how good or bad he may be doing otherwise. It all does come back to the two greatest commandments. The love of those commandments is explained in detail in I Corinthians chapter 13... rather than in any church doctrines or statements of faith.

 

[Dcopymope]

That doesn't mean that we shouldn't do our part to promote unity, instead of causing division. Your attitude reminds me of when my kids see trash on the floor, rather than cleaning it up, they think it's ok to just throw more trash on the floor. No, we have to all work together to do our part in making things better.

One mans trash is not another mans responsibility to pick up. Christianity is about personal responsibility. If you spread trash, and you know its trash, then clean it up. If more of these YouTube "ministries" lived by that principle for instance, they wouldn't be making the faith and themselves out to be absolute foolishness. Of course, the trash comes from a multitude of sources than just YouTube, but it is a shining example. You stay in your lane, I'll stay in mine.

 

[aspen]

“Am I my brother’s keeper?”

(Yes....the answer is yes)

 

[Dcopymope]

“Am I my brother’s keeper?”

(Yes....the answer is yes)

Well, that really was his brother after all, so its kind of out of context. I am not your "brother", so no, I am not your "keeper". Even if you were really my "brother", it still boils down to personal responsibility.

 

[brakelite]

When Jesus prayed for His redeemed to be one with Him and the Father, He didn't say this was to be done by 'loving one another' or by believing in the same doctrine. He said, quote...John 17:9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.....11 Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. ......
Now of course they believed the same doctrine, and they loved one another. However I do not think this was the primary reason there were 'one'.
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
I believe the above bolded part is the key to unity. As the Father was in His Son, so also may we be in them.
As we abide in Christ...as we grow closer to Him, relationally, then we shall grow closer to the Father. Think of two parallel lines fading off into the distant horizon, you on one, me on another. We are a mountain range apart on doctrine, and though we discuss our various perspectives it seems we never come to a unity or agreement. Yet we are both drawing closer to Christ and the Father. In Him we are converging and coming closer to one another. As we discuss and debate, as we study and pray, the Spirit works in each of us, the Word creates in us the righteousness of Christ, and we two become more and more like Christ in character, goals, and purpose. The doctrines will take care of themselves as Christ teaches us both. The mountain range will turn into a hill, then a plain, yet in Him we are still one.
But seeking unity in any shape or form whether through love or doctrine, is an utter waste of time if we are not in Christ. If we are in Him, if we are abiding in Him, if we remain in Him, there will come a time when we will be teaching and believing and practicing the same doctrine. Practising sound doctrine is the inevitable fruit of knowing our Saviour. We are sanctified by Truth...sound doctrine...as found in scripture. A limited knowledge of scripture is sufficient for all to come to a place of salvation or justification. We may not know what justification means, but we may be born again without understanding all scripture perfectly. But as we continue to abide in the Vine, the sap and strength of the Vine will give us growth and understanding.
When Jesus comes to take His people home, not everyone will be in total agreement on doctrine. But they will be filled with His holy Spirit...they will have His character, and as has been alluded to previously, the fruits of that Spirit is love. The remaining 'fruit' as revealed in Galatians being joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness and self control, are descriptives of the love we are to have. It is God's nature...Christ's likeness within, that will bring us in union with one another. This is affected by being in Him and in the Father, just as they are in one another.
First, abide. Then be sanctified by Truth, filled with His Spirit, love will result, unity the end goal. But not all will be found in Him, despite their profession. There cold hearts revealing this to the church, and to the world.

 

[aspen]

Well, that really was his brother after all, so its kind of out of context. I am not your "brother", so no, I am not your "keeper". Even if you were really my "brother", it still boils down to personal responsibility.

Personal responsibility for what? Salvation? Unity?

Christianity is not antisocial - that’s the culture of prison

 

[brakelite]

persecuting people for disagreeing on doctrine seems antichrist to me.

LOL, stating this in a "unity thread" is like presenting a piece of tissue paper and scissors to a 2 year old child. Could go anywhere.