Many man made religions today that profess to be "christian" have redefined the word "Church" itself which comes from the Greek word "ekklesia. It actually comes from two Greek words: Ek means out and Kaleo means call, and this is the verb form. When we put the two together and write the noun form of it, it is Ekklesia and means "called out ones". Therefore the "church refers only to the individuals who Christ has called out and not to any institution. The term has been deceptively translated and redefined by man made religious institutions that attempted to usurp Christ's authority as the head of His body, and to put people under the bondage of these false religious institutions.The "Universal" (Catholic) so-called "church" was established by the Roman Emporers to unite the Roman empire in the fourth century by giving a "christian" veneer to the traditional pagan mystery religions. The Emperor Contantine took all of the pagan deities and renamed them as saints, and the pagan holy days gave Biblical titles. He was both a pagan and professing Christian his whole life, and was trying to create a unified hybrid of both. The pagan's never objected to changes in names, because their religions were always esoteric anyway, while the professing Christians agreed to continue in the pagan rituals because they now had been given a Christian veneer. Therefore a one world or "universal" so-called "church had been established which incorporated the two popular religions of the day, professing Christianity and paganism which was really Satanism.Anyone can go to the Vatican and the Old Cathedrals today and you'll find a plethora of statues of pagan god's who have been renamed as "saints" by the Roman religion.The statue of "Peter" who Catholics have kissed the toes off of at St Peter's Cathedral is the pagan god "Jupiter". The sun discs you see behind the heads of the so-called "saints" in all of the paintings and statues are an obvious giveaway of who they originally represented, which were the pantheon of pagan gods. Also the sun symbol and sign of baal on the architecture and vestments irrefutably proves my case. The large obelisk in St Peter's square is a phallic symbol which represents the "shaft of baal" who is also Nimrod or Osiris, and was brought from ancient Egypt. Just look in your Bible concordance about what God thinks of that filthy symbol.The sun god represented by paganism is meant to symbolize "Lucifer" whose name means "the light bearer" in Latin, and is the real "god" of the pagan Mystery religions. The symbols of Lucifer or baal are found throughout the so-called Universal Church to this day which is proof of its true origin. The real Church on the other hand is the "called out ones" of Jesus Christ and not the members of any religious institution. The true definition of ekklesia does not refer to any institution whatsoever, nor denomination, nor religious building, nor worship service as it is wrongly used today, but refers to the individuals themselves who have been called by God out of darkness into His light. The false religious institutions have cleverly redefined certain key terms in order to enslave the masses into their institutions and most people today still don't properly understand the true meaning of ekklesia, and that it is not something that we must go to or join, but is something we ourselves must become.SealedEternal
The Universal (catholic) so-called "Church"
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forgivenWretch
New Member
(Letsgofishing;35956)
more anti-Christian propoganda which you can't prove. thanks for wasting my time
anti-Christian propaganda?
so now your true colors come shining through, and quite brightly, to say the least. Again, another, catholic, proving that they have supremacy over others and are the only true Christians. Another prime example!
more anti-Christian propoganda which you can't prove. thanks for wasting my time
anti-Christian propaganda?
forgivenWretch
New Member
(Letsgofishing;35958)
Satue of Jupiter
Statue of Peter
Do the judging for yourself
What is to judge? other than the fact that catholics worship graven images.
Satue of Jupiter
What is to judge? other than the fact that catholics worship graven images.
(forgivenWretch;35967)
What is to judge? other than the fact that catholics worship graven images.
Exd 25:19 And make one cherub on the one end, and the other cherub on the other end: [even] of the mercy seat shall ye make the cherubims on the two ends thereof. God told them to make a statue of a creature. One that would be placed in the HOLIEST place, a place associated with their worship of God. So is just having an image wrong? Or is having an image associated with a place of worship wrong?Can anyone demonstrate Catholics worshipping St Peter?
What is to judge? other than the fact that catholics worship graven images.
Exd 25:19 And make one cherub on the one end, and the other cherub on the other end: [even] of the mercy seat shall ye make the cherubims on the two ends thereof. God told them to make a statue of a creature. One that would be placed in the HOLIEST place, a place associated with their worship of God. So is just having an image wrong? Or is having an image associated with a place of worship wrong?Can anyone demonstrate Catholics worshipping St Peter?
(forgivenWretch;35966)
anti-Christian propaganda?
so now your true colors come shining through, and quite brightly, to say the least. Again, another, catholic, proving that they have supremacy over others and are the only true Christians. Another prime example!
I never said that we catholics are the only christians.I just said that we catholics are christiansI apologize if I implyed anything else.What is a christian, a believer and follower of christ. There is no denomination involved
anti-Christian propaganda?
I never said that we catholics are the only christians.I just said that we catholics are christiansI apologize if I implyed anything else.What is a christian, a believer and follower of christ. There is no denomination involved
I don't think SealedEternal is saying all people who call themselves catholic are not true Christians. Every denomination has true Christians, and false Christians. He is pointing out that the Catholic Church has gone wrong in many ways. (I don't mean to speak for you here Sealed). One of the most obvious I would say is the giant Obelisk in the Vatican Square. When I first saw this I was taken aback. http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/imagenes...atican18_09.jpgI would really like to know how Catholics justify this.Letsgofishing I see this would be a good question for your Ask a Catholic thread, but it's less crowded here.
(Letsgofishing;35956)
more anti-Christian propoganda which you can't prove. thanks for wasting my time
Amen. amen.................
more anti-Christian propoganda which you can't prove. thanks for wasting my time
Amen. amen.................
We need to patient and listen and find out for ourselves what God teaches as truth.Peter never went to Rome till his execution, It was Paul who set up the church of Rome not Peter. It appears that many untrue things have been preached as true. But the church of God builds on one rock, Jesus Christ, and the faith of Peter knowing Christ was the Messiah is the faith and rock we as the true church should be established on.Peter and Paul never asked men to follow them, they asked them to follow Christ whom they followed. Constantine adopted the christian faith and somehow tried to make it Romes. But the true church is and has always been established in Jerusalem as indeed Jesus said it must be. He sent Peter and the disciples to wait in Jerusalem where the Spirit and the first church/men of God were established in Acts 2. The true church/temple of God is the bodies of men and women where the Holy Spirit anoints the elect in Christ.Those people whos lives have been converted by their faithfulness to Gods truth about Christ and in love have received the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.The Spirit changes the lives from within the person and this is shown by fruits on the outside. The things of the Spirit cannot be seen by the normal man but only men of God. The Roman Catholic Church is not based on the truth of Christ alone.The false teachings of praying for the madonna and to the saints.Mary and all the others were just human beings they were not divine in nature. Only Christ was divine in nature and birth.The word of God is clear that many things in all churches are incorrect.But the true Church those in the Spirit know what to do and what to say, for they know whom they trust in.It would be best if a study of truth was done to establish the fact from the fiction.Faithful.
Faithful as much as truth is talked about here it should have already been done. But everyone knows my opposition to this denomination bashing so I will let it go at that.
faithful We do not pray to the saints we ask them to pray for us.We do not believe they are divine in nature, we believe they are living in christ.and we never believed that Mary was divine, we believe she was blessed.
(Letsgofishing;36152)
faithful We do not pray to the saints we ask them to pray for us.We do not believe they are divine in nature, we believe they are living in christ.and we never believed that Mary was divine, we believe she was blessed.
And no where in the Bible saying that we ask dead saints to pray for you.We should be the one who should be praying to the Father in Yahshua's name ourselves.JagLovest thou in Christ Yahshua, Lord and Saviour of the world.
faithful We do not pray to the saints we ask them to pray for us.We do not believe they are divine in nature, we believe they are living in christ.and we never believed that Mary was divine, we believe she was blessed.
And no where in the Bible saying that we ask dead saints to pray for you.We should be the one who should be praying to the Father in Yahshua's name ourselves.JagLovest thou in Christ Yahshua, Lord and Saviour of the world.
We should be the one who should be praying to the Father in Yahshua's name ourselves.
Well I agree there.....
Well I agree there.....
(thesuperjag;36157)
And no where in the Bible saying that we ask dead saints to pray for you.
We all do many things as Christians that are not explicit commands from scripture. So it cannot be true that any of use the presence or absence of a command in scripture to either prohibit or endorse a practice of Christians. But while we agree you do not see it, there are references to (and even prayers for) the practice of praying for the dead that we as Catholics do see. So the fact we see it, is a biblical defense of our doing it. Again to repeat, just so I don't get slammed for something I am NOT SAYING. We understand you do not agree that any of OUR references to the practice in scripture or the actual prayer for the dead itself in scripture are indeed what WE say they are. In fact in one case, the clearest example of someone praying for the dead, you don't even have the book in your Bible. It goes without saying that you do not see these things. It is why or part of what makes me Catholic and you not. It is not a matter of being Christian or not.We should also note that not only do many here disagree with the Roman Catholic practice of prayers for the dead, but also disagree with all the earliest Christians writing about the practice BEFORE there was a "Roman" Church.
We should be the one who should be praying to the Father in Yahshua's name ourselves.
Then why ask any one to pray for you?And why command us in scripture to pray for one another if we are ONLY to pray to the God for ourselves and not ask others to pray for us?
And no where in the Bible saying that we ask dead saints to pray for you.
We all do many things as Christians that are not explicit commands from scripture. So it cannot be true that any of use the presence or absence of a command in scripture to either prohibit or endorse a practice of Christians. But while we agree you do not see it, there are references to (and even prayers for) the practice of praying for the dead that we as Catholics do see. So the fact we see it, is a biblical defense of our doing it. Again to repeat, just so I don't get slammed for something I am NOT SAYING. We understand you do not agree that any of OUR references to the practice in scripture or the actual prayer for the dead itself in scripture are indeed what WE say they are. In fact in one case, the clearest example of someone praying for the dead, you don't even have the book in your Bible. It goes without saying that you do not see these things. It is why or part of what makes me Catholic and you not. It is not a matter of being Christian or not.We should also note that not only do many here disagree with the Roman Catholic practice of prayers for the dead, but also disagree with all the earliest Christians writing about the practice BEFORE there was a "Roman" Church.
We should be the one who should be praying to the Father in Yahshua's name ourselves.
Then why ask any one to pray for you?And why command us in scripture to pray for one another if we are ONLY to pray to the God for ourselves and not ask others to pray for us?
(Letsgofishing;35956)
more anti-Christian propoganda which you can't prove. thanks for wasting my time
That’s cool just ignore the history then, I know that’s what they teach Catholics to do anyhow. How else could you ignore such blatant contradictions with the word of God. I was Catholic for many years by the way. A lot of what was posted here is history and it is already widely accepted not that this makes it right, but have you even looked into this stuff? You can’t prove any history let alone Christ’s. But the formation of the catholic church was to congeal the pagan masses and this is Historically derived. This is generally accepted, oh wait, obviously not by those who would rather ignore what history presents?Christianity was getting too strong due to all the martyrs so more subversive tactics were used by combining Christianity with the pagans’ religions. This way “everyone” was a Christian. The pagans care little for the names of their deities as long as they can have a God head, Mother head (Mary) and a Son head (Jesus). The saints provided worship and transformation of their many other gods as well as just shifting pagan days over to “holy days”.Just so you know, almost all of my family except one of my five brothers and his wife and my mother are “Catholics” in my family. And I love my family so I’m not dissin anyone just this false religion.
more anti-Christian propoganda which you can't prove. thanks for wasting my time
That’s cool just ignore the history then, I know that’s what they teach Catholics to do anyhow. How else could you ignore such blatant contradictions with the word of God. I was Catholic for many years by the way. A lot of what was posted here is history and it is already widely accepted not that this makes it right, but have you even looked into this stuff? You can’t prove any history let alone Christ’s. But the formation of the catholic church was to congeal the pagan masses and this is Historically derived. This is generally accepted, oh wait, obviously not by those who would rather ignore what history presents?Christianity was getting too strong due to all the martyrs so more subversive tactics were used by combining Christianity with the pagans’ religions. This way “everyone” was a Christian. The pagans care little for the names of their deities as long as they can have a God head, Mother head (Mary) and a Son head (Jesus). The saints provided worship and transformation of their many other gods as well as just shifting pagan days over to “holy days”.Just so you know, almost all of my family except one of my five brothers and his wife and my mother are “Catholics” in my family. And I love my family so I’m not dissin anyone just this false religion.
(Letsgofishing;36152)
faithful We do not pray to the saints we ask them to pray for us.We do not believe they are divine in nature, we believe they are living in christ.and we never believed that Mary was divine, we believe she was blessed.
This is not true Mary is called the co-redeemer and is considered Divine and the “actual” mother of God by Catholics. They posit that since she is the mother of Christ, and Christ is God that she is the mother of God. I have an entire shelf here on nothing but Catholicism, their doctrine, creeds, beliefs, Catechisms, etc. I use to be one and hard core.Also you are not asking saints to pray for you, you are “praying” to saints to pray for you. This is forbidden in the word of God. Anyone who has died the first death we are not to speak to. The saints are not alive in the flesh for you to ask them hence you are praying to them to pray for you. This also greatly mocks God and shows a complete lack of understanding to His nature.
faithful We do not pray to the saints we ask them to pray for us.We do not believe they are divine in nature, we believe they are living in christ.and we never believed that Mary was divine, we believe she was blessed.
This is not true Mary is called the co-redeemer and is considered Divine and the “actual” mother of God by Catholics. They posit that since she is the mother of Christ, and Christ is God that she is the mother of God. I have an entire shelf here on nothing but Catholicism, their doctrine, creeds, beliefs, Catechisms, etc. I use to be one and hard core.Also you are not asking saints to pray for you, you are “praying” to saints to pray for you. This is forbidden in the word of God. Anyone who has died the first death we are not to speak to. The saints are not alive in the flesh for you to ask them hence you are praying to them to pray for you. This also greatly mocks God and shows a complete lack of understanding to His nature.
(DrBubbaLove;36009)
Exd 25:19 And make one cherub on the one end, and the other cherub on the other end: [even] of the mercy seat shall ye make the cherubims on the two ends thereof. God told them to make a statue of a creature. One that would be placed in the HOLIEST place, a place associated with their worship of God. So is just having an image wrong? Or is having an image associated with a place of worship wrong?Can anyone demonstrate Catholics worshipping St Peter?
Wow talk about totally taking the word of God and wielding it to your advantage. You are so blatantly missing other key verses, not only in Exodus concerning graven images but in the entire OT and NT! It’s so obvious that I am not even going to take the time to mention them here as you obviously have chosen to pick and choose to your liking.As well don’t you think there might be a little bit of a difference between God allowing an exception in a single instance where He specifically calls for such in reflection to the symbolism He is portraying? This was God’s call to do so in the above situation you singularly bring to light. No where does He leave these matters up to men however. Everywhere else we are told specifically not to do so and it is so blatantly obvious that if you haven’t caught it so far, mentioning the scripture aint gonna help much.If Popes or bishops have received a command to do so it is extra-Biblical and the first time I will have known my God to contradict Himself. I’ve seen the Pope himself kiss the feet on more than one statue of Mary and bow before it. Don’t acquire such a loose term on what worship is. If making an image is bad enough, then why dance with the devil and kiss it. Why kneel before it and pray to the individual graven in front of you. This is wrong on all levels and in contradiction to God’s word, why seek to justify what He hates. This is wrong and if you don’t have the Holy Spirit to reveal this to you in your heart then you are walking astray my brother.God is a jealous God and he will share His glory with no man. He made sure, made darn certain of it that He not even show us His form except to Moses in fear that we would carve an image of Him. How much less and how much more detestable that we should do this with other men and women. Lol, next time you pray to saint Peter to pray for you think of how he would not even want you doing this. Try to see the light of what you are doing and that God is not happy with it.
Exd 25:19 And make one cherub on the one end, and the other cherub on the other end: [even] of the mercy seat shall ye make the cherubims on the two ends thereof. God told them to make a statue of a creature. One that would be placed in the HOLIEST place, a place associated with their worship of God. So is just having an image wrong? Or is having an image associated with a place of worship wrong?Can anyone demonstrate Catholics worshipping St Peter?
Wow talk about totally taking the word of God and wielding it to your advantage. You are so blatantly missing other key verses, not only in Exodus concerning graven images but in the entire OT and NT! It’s so obvious that I am not even going to take the time to mention them here as you obviously have chosen to pick and choose to your liking.As well don’t you think there might be a little bit of a difference between God allowing an exception in a single instance where He specifically calls for such in reflection to the symbolism He is portraying? This was God’s call to do so in the above situation you singularly bring to light. No where does He leave these matters up to men however. Everywhere else we are told specifically not to do so and it is so blatantly obvious that if you haven’t caught it so far, mentioning the scripture aint gonna help much.If Popes or bishops have received a command to do so it is extra-Biblical and the first time I will have known my God to contradict Himself. I’ve seen the Pope himself kiss the feet on more than one statue of Mary and bow before it. Don’t acquire such a loose term on what worship is. If making an image is bad enough, then why dance with the devil and kiss it. Why kneel before it and pray to the individual graven in front of you. This is wrong on all levels and in contradiction to God’s word, why seek to justify what He hates. This is wrong and if you don’t have the Holy Spirit to reveal this to you in your heart then you are walking astray my brother.God is a jealous God and he will share His glory with no man. He made sure, made darn certain of it that He not even show us His form except to Moses in fear that we would carve an image of Him. How much less and how much more detestable that we should do this with other men and women. Lol, next time you pray to saint Peter to pray for you think of how he would not even want you doing this. Try to see the light of what you are doing and that God is not happy with it.
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