The vast range of Greys between Black and White

[Helen]

I read it was the springs .
There was a cold refreshing spring as drinking water .And a hot springs for bathing and other things.
The lukewarm was not good to either drink , or to bathe in ....( =mixture ...and God does not like mixture)

Forgotten now where I read it...but long ago ....I have no knowledge of the geography of the place.

Oh whoops @Willie T ...just seen your post on this ...you said it first ....and beautifully done......thanks for info.on details .

 

[Base12]

They produced a world-famous salve, reputed to cure certain kinds of eye diseases.

Speaking of Eyesalve...

John 9:6
"When he had thus spoken, he spat on the ground, and made clay of the spittle, and he anointed the eyes of the blind man with the clay"

 

[Waiting on him]

1) Will that 'destiny' likewise range from being eternally tormented day and night in hell fire, through to spending an eternal life of utmost ‘paradise’ (to coin the word) in the presence of God?

Hi Mike, have you ever noticed that scripture indicates that in Hell there exists day and night?

 

[bbyrd009]

I am thinking of the range between the extremes of ‘disbelief’ and ‘faith’.

5 ways to say "belief" in Scripture; only one way to say "faith" though i guess

So what might be the ultimate ‘after life’ destiny of each person within that vast range?

lol, the desire for immortality is overwhelming in a soul, huh Mike

 

[bbyrd009]

Hi Mike, have you ever noticed that scripture indicates that in Hell there exists day and night?

prolly bc Gehenna is on earth?

 

[FollowHim]

I am thinking of the range between the extremes of ‘disbelief’ and ‘faith’.

On the side of disbelief you have the range between those who are proactive atheists through to those who, whilst not being ‘anti’, simply have never given a single thought to involving in any form of religion.

On the side of faith you have those who have those who choose to ‘go to church’ on the occasional Sundays, and that’s it, through to those who devote every minute of their lives trying to deepen and expand their faith.

So what might be the ultimate ‘after life’ destiny of each person within that vast range?

1) Will that 'destiny' likewise range from being eternally tormented day and night in hell fire, through to spending an eternal life of utmost ‘paradise’ (to coin the word) in the presence of God?

If so, then where might the crossover point lay in the range from proactive atheistic disbelief, through to total devotion of Faith, ?

Or

2) Will the whole thing be resolved in an ‘Ultimate Reconciliation’?

Or

3) Will there be another ‘range’ between ‘1’ and ‘2’?

The book of Revelation describes the outcome. Judgement followed by the book of life for eternal life, or the fire.
There is no range, there is only being written in, or not, a complete polarised reality.

When people ask about righteousness and the straight path, or faith covering sins, and the rest lost, ones view varies on who is lost and who is saved. The question some claim is everyone is in the book of life, it is only a matter of time, or only those who have had a faith encounter with Jesus, or those who love, or those who follow Jesus as His people.

 

[Mike Waters]

The book of Revelation describes the outcome. Judgement followed by the book of life for eternal life, or the fire.
There is no range, there is only being written in, or not, a complete polarised reality.

You won't be the only respondent to this thread who can only see the two extremes of black and white, nevertheless there remains the question of the "many mansions" in God's house, each of which has to be occupied by someone.

 

[Waiting on him]

prolly bc Gehenna is on earth?

Proverbs 15:11 KJV
[11] Hell and destruction are before the Lord : how much more then the hearts of the children of men?


Tecarta Bible

 

[bbyrd009]

Proverbs 15:11 KJV
[11] Hell and destruction are before the Lord : how much more then the hearts of the children of men?


Tecarta Bible

So Sheol is turned into “hell” now based upon an ignorant scribe who had no other analogue; our concept of “hell” is Norse! Anglish! There is no punishment in Sheol!

 

[Willie T]

Several years back , I heard a teaching on these cold and hot water outlets. Was not sure what to make of it and, what you posted above is the only other time I heard of this. Allot to be learned from this.

It especially struck me that it seems the city was built there, mainly, because of the potential for $ that would (and did) come from that particular location. Even today, the "feel good" Mega Churches are never built out in pleasant, quiet country settings, but rather in the centers of commerce and wealthy populations.

 

[Mike Waters]

So Sheol is turned into “hell” now based upon an ignorant scribe who had no other analogue; our concept of “hell” is Norse! Anglish! There is no punishment in Sheol!

See pages 18 and 19 of my blog
My voyage in search of the hidden treasure of the Kingdom of Heaven.

 

[FollowHim]

You won't be the only respondent to this thread who can only see the two extremes of black and white, nevertheless there remains the question of the "many mansions" in God's house, each of which has to be occupied by someone.

There are various views, and I have not proposed a black or white anything.
God has declared He chooses who are His and who are not.
A universalist holds that all are His. But for this to be true either you believe all can be reformed, ie free will ultimately does not exist, or there will always be a rejected group. I once held that how could there ever be people who rejected love, until I started to meet people who were so distorted and lost, love did not register. I could not therefore project my personal experience of reality on to others, but had to submit to Gods revelation.

Part of Jesus's story with His interaction with the pharisees, is they can be so caught up in self indulgence and greed, everything else is excluded. He warned them, it is possible to be so blind and lost to call a work of the Holy Spirit a work of satan, for which there will be no forgiveness.

Equally in the book of revelation, allegiance with the beast is deemed as a sin so grevious, those who walk this path will be tortured night and day for all eternity with the beast himself. The rest are just destroyed in the eternal fire.

Anyone can choose to ignore these testimonies and warnings, but they exist from God all the same. God bless you.

 

[Willie T]

This is interesting to me in more than one way. Early on in my instruction in Psychology, my primary mentor told me many things, but a kind of startling insight he imparted was that I probably would always have a hard time relating to the "real" world if I didn't get past my propensity for wanting relational situations to always be either Black or White.

I guess this is one of the reasons I so detest the habit we have of labeling and pigeon-holing people into convenient little boxes, wherein we can safely and comfortably deal with them in the manner we have previously decided "that kind of person" deserves... be it bad or good.

 

[Waiting on him]

There are various views, and I have not proposed a black or white anything.
God has declared He chooses who are His and who are not.
A universalist holds that all are His. But for this to be true either you believe all can be reformed, ie free will ultimately does not exist, or there will always be a rejected group. I once held that how could there ever be people who rejected love, until I started to meet people who were so distorted and lost, love did not register. I could not therefore project my personal experience of reality on to others, but had to submit to Gods revelation.

Part of Jesus's story with His interaction with the pharisees, is they can be so caught up in self indulgence and greed, everything else is excluded. He warned them, it is possible to be so blind and lost to call a work of the Holy Spirit a work of satan, for which there will be no forgiveness.

Equally in the book of revelation, allegiance with the beast is deemed as a sin so grevious, those who walk this path will be tortured night and day for all eternity with the beast himself. The rest are just destroyed in the eternal fire.

Anyone can choose to ignore these testimonies and warnings, but they exist from God all the same. God bless you.

How do you reconcile there’s a night and day there?

 

[Waiting on him]

See pages 18 and 19 of my blog
My voyage in search of the hidden treasure of the Kingdom of Heaven.

He’ll in my opinion is simply the lack of the presence of God. I say this because I’ve experienced it.

 

[Waiting on him]

 

[FollowHim]

How’ve do you reconcile there’s a night and day there?

There is no night and day with the Lord dwelling with man.

Rev 22:5
There will be no more night. They will not need the light of a lamp or the light of the sun, for the Lord God will give them light. And they will reign for ever and ever.

Faith is hard because our belief system put scripture as the ultimate authority. What happens if scripture gives us a position we find impossible to hold?

A simple one for me is the earth standing still while a battle with Amorites.
With our knowledge of the speed of rotation of the earth, the physics involved in stopping earth or changing the sun to appear to be in sky stationary seem impossible. But time and movement to us appear fixed, to God nothing is fixed. But this appears a minor request for a battle, compared to the physics involved.

Equally the images in Johns revelation could be relational rather than actual. Taking a simple problem of a city 1,200 miles wide, deep and tall.
This is not a cube, because it has a foundation, but a 1,200 mile high city would be a major addition to the earth, outside our understanding.

Faith is about trusting God through these ideas, issues, to hold deep within us a loyalty and love to Him alone.
The question most interesting to me is about admitting our weaknesses and walking in Christs forgiveness through to victory.
It is possible our sense of victory is subjective and rests more on safety and local reassurance than the Lord.
ptsd, chemical and life shocks testify to these influences are often stronger than our faith, unfortunately.

So I tend towards our direction of travel always has been the focus of Gods conversation with us in our weakness.

 

[Willie T]

There is no night and day with the Lord dwelling with man.

Rev 22:5
There will be no more night. They will not need the light of a lamp or the light of the sun, for the Lord God will give them light. And they will reign for ever and ever.

Faith is hard because our belief system put scripture as the ultimate authority. What happens if scripture gives us a position we find impossible to hold?

A simple one for me is the earth standing still while a battle with Amorites.
With our knowledge of the speed of rotation of the earth, the physics involved in stopping earth or changing the sun to appear to be in sky stationary seem impossible. But time and movement to us appear fixed, to God nothing is fixed. But this appears a minor request for a battle, compared to the physics involved.

Equally the images in Johns revelation could be relational rather than actual. Taking a simple problem of a city 1,200 miles wide, deep and tall.
This is not a cube, because it has a foundation, but a 1,200 mile high city would be a major addition to the earth, outside our understanding.

Faith is about trusting God through these ideas, issues, to hold deep within us a loyalty and love to Him alone.
The question most interesting to me is about admitting our weaknesses and walking in Christs forgiveness through to victory.
It is possible our sense of victory is subjective and rests more on safety and local reassurance than the Lord.
ptsd, chemical and life shocks testify to these influences are often stronger than our faith, unfortunately.

So I tend towards our direction of travel always has been the focus of Gods conversation with us in our weakness.

So, how do you decide when to ignore some Scripture, yet build Doctrines on others?

 

[Waiting on him]

There is no night and day with the Lord dwelling with man.

Rev 22:5
There will be no more night. They will not need the light of a lamp or the light of the sun, for the Lord God will give them light. And they will reign for ever and ever.

Faith is hard because our belief system put scripture as the ultimate authority. What happens if scripture gives us a position we find impossible to hold?

A simple one for me is the earth standing still while a battle with Amorites.
With our knowledge of the speed of rotation of the earth, the physics involved in stopping earth or changing the sun to appear to be in sky stationary seem impossible. But time and movement to us appear fixed, to God nothing is fixed. But this appears a minor request for a battle, compared to the physics involved.

Equally the images in Johns revelation could be relational rather than actual. Taking a simple problem of a city 1,200 miles wide, deep and tall.
This is not a cube, because it has a foundation, but a 1,200 mile high city would be a major addition to the earth, outside our understanding.

Faith is about trusting God through these ideas, issues, to hold deep within us a loyalty and love to Him alone.
The question most interesting to me is about admitting our weaknesses and walking in Christs forgiveness through to victory.
It is possible our sense of victory is subjective and rests more on safety and local reassurance than the Lord.
ptsd, chemical and life shocks testify to these influences are often stronger than our faith, unfortunately.

So I tend towards our direction of travel always has been the focus of Gods conversation with us in our weakness.

Revelation 7:15 KJV
[15] Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

Maybe it’s all a perspective issue?
Tecarta Bible

 

[Waiting on him]

There is no night and day with the Lord dwelling with man.

Rev 22:5
There will be no more night. They will not need the light of a lamp or the light of the sun, for the Lord God will give them light. And they will reign for ever and ever.

Faith is hard because our belief system put scripture as the ultimate authority. What happens if scripture gives us a position we find impossible to hold?

A simple one for me is the earth standing still while a battle with Amorites.
With our knowledge of the speed of rotation of the earth, the physics involved in stopping earth or changing the sun to appear to be in sky stationary seem impossible. But time and movement to us appear fixed, to God nothing is fixed. But this appears a minor request for a battle, compared to the physics involved.

Equally the images in Johns revelation could be relational rather than actual. Taking a simple problem of a city 1,200 miles wide, deep and tall.
This is not a cube, because it has a foundation, but a 1,200 mile high city would be a major addition to the earth, outside our understanding.

Faith is about trusting God through these ideas, issues, to hold deep within us a loyalty and love to Him alone.
The question most interesting to me is about admitting our weaknesses and walking in Christs forgiveness through to victory.
It is possible our sense of victory is subjective and rests more on safety and local reassurance than the Lord.
ptsd, chemical and life shocks testify to these influences are often stronger than our faith, unfortunately.

So I tend towards our direction of travel always has been the focus of Gods conversation with us in our weakness.

Also the reference above says there is no need of a sun.... doesn’t say there isn’t one?