The Winepress

[pia]

I am sorry to see you departing.

I do thank you kindly, but it has really gotten to the point, where I believe what I do here is of no help to anyone, and I surely don't want to give any more people the chance to blaspheme Him and call Him liar or worse an enemy spirit...I feel confident that you will understand that....Sorry I didn't get to know you a bit better....I have been on for a while, but can't see any fruit from it, so it becomes a no-brainer......All the very best to you and yours.
Peace and joy in our Lord always......Pia

 

[Helen]

Sorry to see you go Pia....but as I have already said to you before...if in every battle we just "bow-out" of life and turn....we never win any foothold or advance!

We are called to be "light and salt"...if all light and salt withdraws, what is left?
I choose to stay on for as long as I feel the Lord wishes it.
I agree, maybe we don't produce much fruit, but He is the fruit producer..I just endeavour to abide in the Vine...and draw from His root.

Bless you..pop back once in a while.

 

[Willie T]

Frankly, I am not convinced Pia is not right. I, myself, am just about fed up with life.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Frankly, I am not convinced Pia is not right. I, myself, am just about fed up with life.

Responded then deleted. Will try again. After reading Pias post and yours I want to share something with you...maybe it will help, maybe it won’t. The other night I was talking to someone about how good God is. They just sat there and then finally I asked what they were thinking because they were not saying anything. They started to cry and said they don’t know if they believe In God. And don’t know if they want to. They said all they see is bad and evil, and no good in anyone. Here I was thinking others could see fruit, goodness, Jesus in my life. And someone is saying “no, I don’t see Him.” Someone confiding “your life is worse. I don’t see where it has helped you.” What does that mean? Then they are crying saying “I’m sorry. I don’t want to destroy your faith. But I’m just telling you how I feel.” Oddly, I agree. “Where is the fruit?” It hurt and also deflated my ego some( crushed it even). but it is about His goodness which doesn’t change. Regardless of men(women)...His goodness is solid, yeah? Still, don’t know what to think of being responsible in part for someone saying they would rather not read His word or know Him, saying it doesn’t appear to have helped.

 

[Willie T]

Responded then deleted. Will try again. After reading Pias post and yours I want to share something with you...maybe it will help, maybe it won’t. The other night I was talking to someone about how good God is. They just sat there and then finally I asked what they were thinking because they were not saying anything. They started to cry and said they don’t know if they believe In God. And don’t know if they want to. They said all they see is bad and evil, and no good in anyone. Here I was thinking others could see fruit, goodness, Jesus in my life. And someone is saying “no, I don’t see Him.” Someone confiding “your life is worse. I don’t see where it has helped you.” What does that mean? Then they are crying saying “I’m sorry. I don’t want to destroy your faith. But I’m just telling you how I feel.” Oddly, I agree. “Where is the fruit?” It hurt and also deflated my ego some( crushed it even). but it is about His goodness which doesn’t change. Regardless of men(women)...His goodness is solid, yeah? Still, don’t know what to think of being responsible in part for someone saying they would rather not read His word or know Him, saying it doesn’t appear to have helped.

I can totally understand them. In just the past few days, I have decided not to return to church when it reopens. I still believe there is a God, but my thoughts about Him being all "good" are changing drastically.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I can totally understand them. In just the past few days, I have decided not to return to church when it reopens. I still believe there is a God, but my thoughts about Him being all "good" are changing drastically.

Was coming back to delete it again before you read it. Why: my thoughts about Him being all “good” are changing drastically? How so, if you don’t mind my asking?

 

[Willie T]

Was coming back to delete it again before you read it. Why: my thoughts about Him being all “good” are changing drastically? How so, if you don’t mind my asking?

I guess I have finally gotten tired of hearing "God didn't do it" (whatever evil thing), "but He allows it."

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I guess I have finally gotten tired of hearing "God didn't do it" (whatever evil thing), "but He allows it."

Similar to Job and the ongoing debate of was it God or the enemy? Then Jesus said the same to Peter: Luke 22:31-32 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: [32] But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

Why give Peter to Satan to sift as wheat? Wish I could say something to help but my advice is lacking. I have had the same questions you may be having. Probably even last week. Take destruction of a sinner which destroys much good...in contrast to all of Heaven rejoices when one sinner repents. Don’t know if that helps...but heard a lot of things in an ugly light which maybe are not so ugly.

 

[Willie T]

Thank you, ViJ, but I am really beginning to have a hard time seeing much more than perverted enjoyment of God allowing many things in our lives. I'm starting to think that Calvinists might actually be correct in saying He deliberately created many of us just to burn in Hell.

 

[Timtofly]

Job 2:9-10
9 His wife asked him, “Why do you still hold on to your integrity? Curse God, and die!”
10 But he answered her, “You’re talking like a low-class woman! Are we to receive the good at God’s hands but reject the bad?” In all this Job did not say one sinful word.

Job 1:21-22
21 And said, Naked came I out of my mother’s womb, and naked shall I return thither: the Lord hath given, and the Lord hath taken it away: blessed be the Name of the Lord.
22 In all this Job did not sin, nor charge God foolishly.

 

[Willie T]

Job 2:9-10
9 His wife asked him, “Why do you still hold on to your integrity? Curse God, and die!”
10 But he answered her, “You’re talking like a low-class woman! Are we to receive the good at God’s hands but reject the bad?” In all this Job did not say one sinful word.

Job 1:21-22
21 And said, Naked came I out of my mother’s womb, and naked shall I return thither: the Lord hath given, and the Lord hath taken it away: blessed be the Name of the Lord.
22 In all this Job did not sin, nor charge God foolishly.

The BOLDED part accentuates the perverted thinking I am having a hard time with.

 

[Timtofly]

The BOLDED part accentuates the perverted thinking I am having a hard time with.

Does it matter how we get things? The point is we hold on to things too tightly. Job never held on to anything. That is why he was considered righteous. He was not righteous because he thought or called God good. Job even questioned God, but Job never gave up on who God was. Job understood that nothing was Job's to control or even hold dear.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Thank you, ViJ, but I am really beginning to have a hard time seeing much more than perverted enjoyment of God allowing many things in our lives. I'm starting to think that Calvinists might actually be correct in saying He deliberately created many of us just to burn in Hell.

Don’t know what is going on with you. Read on the other thread about drinking nothing. If there is anything ...any help needed? You would say, right?

 

[Willie T]

Don’t know what is going on with you. Read on the other thread about drinking nothing. If there is anything ...any help needed? You would say, right?

I think it has just been a reaction to the Lock-down. For me, it began February 13th. I blew up Wednesday morning, throwing a food tray, and accusing my wife of messing with my head. (I spent ten hours away from the house.)
I require interaction with people, and I guess this time has been a strain.

 

[quietthinker]

Responded then deleted. Will try again. After reading Pias post and yours I want to share something with you...maybe it will help, maybe it won’t. The other night I was talking to someone about how good God is. They just sat there and then finally I asked what they were thinking because they were not saying anything. They started to cry and said they don’t know if they believe In God. And don’t know if they want to. They said all they see is bad and evil, and no good in anyone. Here I was thinking others could see fruit, goodness, Jesus in my life. And someone is saying “no, I don’t see Him.” Someone confiding “your life is worse. I don’t see where it has helped you.” What does that mean? Then they are crying saying “I’m sorry. I don’t want to destroy your faith. But I’m just telling you how I feel.” Oddly, I agree. “Where is the fruit?” It hurt and also deflated my ego some( crushed it even). but it is about His goodness which doesn’t change. Regardless of men(women)...His goodness is solid, yeah? Still, don’t know what to think of being responsible in part for someone saying they would rather not read His word or know Him, saying it doesn’t appear to have helped.

Perhaps its a blessing ViJ that we do not see the immediate effects of our witness? My ego is constantly needing to be kicked in the head. Sounds rough I know. All I can do is bear witness in however meagre form that may appear to me. I trust that God's Spirit is keener than I am.
Mostly I draw a blank from those whose door I knock on and I have learnt to retain my peace.

 

[Willie T]

Don’t know what is going on with you. Read on the other thread about drinking nothing. If there is anything ...any help needed? You would say, right?
**********
The things we do in wartime and other bad conditions aren't supposed to affect us..... but sometimes it all comes back.

 

[quietthinker]

Thank you, ViJ, but I am really beginning to have a hard time seeing much more than perverted enjoyment of God allowing many things in our lives. I'm starting to think that Calvinists might actually be correct in saying He deliberately created many of us just to burn in Hell.

Willie....struggles will always be with us...always. How can I deny him whom I know has spoken to me? It hasn't just been an intellectual exercise. If that were the case taking what appears the easier road would appeal.....but look at that easy road, look at those who travel on it...they're full of shit.

 

[amadeus]

Thank you, ViJ, but I am really beginning to have a hard time seeing much more than perverted enjoyment of God allowing many things in our lives. I'm starting to think that Calvinists might actually be correct in saying He deliberately created many of us just to burn in Hell.

Neither I nor anyone else on this forum can direct you... unless you allow it. It is up to you always my friend. There are some terrible and evil influences loose on this forum, but that is just on a smaller scale what we see in the physical neighborhoods where we live, play, shop and work... and also supposedly worship God. This forum as a supposedly Christian should be different, but so should all of the church assemblies we have seen or visited or even where we have been members.

A long time ago on another forum I came up against this situation and thought like Pia to simply quit, but already God had hold of me. He was directing me... no matter what anyone may say against that. I couldn't quit because I was following His lead and He was not finished with me there yet. He has moved me more than once to other forums, but I have never quit one, because sometimes I am called back. I sometimes take a break as God leads or allows, but no quitting. I am still Alive!

I have not said all of this to make you turn one way or the other. That is between you and God. I only wanted you see that I, and certainly others, you have known here have some of the same problems. Some of the attitudes here are so far away from anything I could call Christ-like I... But I won't continue that thought as you have already had it and it wouldn't help except for you to again understand the turmoil here is not yours alone. @VictoryinJesus is a good person to talk to here. She does not give you clichés or pet doctrines or some of the carnal silliness prevalent with too many. There are only a few who strive to walk with God letting Him direct them. That they, those few, do not always agree and sometimes also argue heatedly makes it all the more difficult to suffer longer... but you must do what you must do. I am here if you want to talk. PMs are available for things you don't want the world to hear.
I have you in my prayers.

 

[Randy Kluth]

I think the harvest is the harvest of good souls, a harvest of righteous men that God has been preparing for Himself. The winepress is indeed blood. The wicked are shown in gruesome terms because that is what they were--violent men. And God does have them killed, to rid His Kingdom of such ungodly figures. It's not cruel. It's just a spectacle--understandable in view of the sadistic behavior of men who have gone their own way. God warned man that in the day he chose to live independent of God, he would die. This is just a matter of carrying out the sentence upon people who are portrayed as despicably wicked.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Don’t know what is going on with you. Read on the other thread about drinking nothing. If there is anything ...any help needed? You would say, right?
**********
The things we do in wartime and other bad conditions aren't supposed to affect us..... but sometimes it all comes back.

Can’t say I understand as I haven’t experienced what you have. But regarding :

Thank you, ViJ, but I am really beginning to have a hard time seeing much more than perverted enjoyment of God allowing many things in our lives. I'm starting to think that Calvinists might actually be correct in saying He deliberately created many of us just to burn in Hell.

Have you told Him you are offended? no one can answer you better there, then God. Work it out with Him. John the Baptist waiting in prison to be beheaded, received, “blessed is he who is not offended in Me.” How do you move pass that? To me “blessed” is working out with Him the offensive parts and not denying they are there. For what it is worth...don’t think it is perverse enjoyment but instead “long-suffering” for what is born.