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Stranger

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Stranger, your logic, that if I write, "It is my understanding", that what I am saying is that I "don't really know.", is flawed.

My wife prefers me to be more gentle in my approach and to not dogmatically assume that I am right all of the time. It leave some wriggle room for people like you to be able to point out where my posts may be in error. Sadly, in this case, you provided no biblical evidence to positively demonstrate where any error, I might have made, was.

It is my view that you were making a claim concerning the "end Times" and the Daniel 9:27 covenant which is not supported by scripture as you demonstrated.

Shalom

Sadly you have provided no Biblical evidence for your statment in post #75. You just say 'it is your understanding'. Ok. If you want to disagree with my statement I made, then prove that statement wrong. Don't come and say I am wrong and I need to prove it to you first.

Stranger
 

Jay Ross

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Sadly you have provided no Biblical evidence for your statment in post #75. You just say 'it is your understanding'. Ok. If you want to disagree with my statement I made, then prove that statement wrong. Don't come and say I am wrong and I need to prove it to you first.

Stranger
Is this the pot calling the kettle black?
 

Stranger

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Is this the pot calling the kettle black?

Not really. I was responding to another in post #75 and you offered your opinion of that response. You disagreed with me. You instigated the discussion between you and I at that point. Since you began with your disagreement with what I said, then I think it is you that needs to show me where I am wrong. You don't come in and say 'you are wrong so prove to me you are right'.

Stranger
 

Jay Ross

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Not really. I was responding to another in post #75 and you offered your opinion of that response. You disagreed with me. You instigated the discussion between you and I at that point. Since you began with your disagreement with what I said, then I think it is you that needs to show me where I am wrong. You don't come in and say 'you are wrong so prove to me you are right'.

Stranger

Stranger, you provide Jeremiah 31:35-37 as proof that God could not reject Israel, but this passage of Jeremiah occurs after Israel is redeemed in our near future around the time of Armageddon, when God refurbishes the Mt Sinai Kingdom of Priests and a Holy Nation and His possession among the Nation Covenant, which they had rebelled against within 40 days of entering into this covenant at Mt Sinai, once more, after Israel accepts the terms of Peace offered to them by Christ, at Armageddon.

My pointing to the parable that Jesus told concerning the owner of the vineyard coming to inspect the fig tree that he had planted in the centre of his vineyard. With some difficulty at present, I have gone looking for where this parable is found, as he motherboard in my computer died and was not available when I previously posted mentioning this parable. This is the parable I was referring too: -

Luke 13: 1 - 9

Repent or Perish

1 There were present at that time some that told him of the Galileans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices.

2 And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose you that these Galileans were sinners above all the Galileans, because they suffered such things?

3 I tell you, Nay: but, except you repent, you shall all likewise perish.

4 Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and killed them, think you that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem?

5 I tell you, Nay: but, except you repent, you shall all likewise perish.

Parable of the Fig Tree

6 He spoke also this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none.

7 Then said he unto the vinedresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I have come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbers it the ground?

8 And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and fertilize it:

9 And if it bears fruit, well: and if not, then after that you shall cut it down.

Now in this parable we should understand that a season is representative of an Age. That the Fig Tree is representative of Israel. That after the third season of the existence of the fig tree, i.e. at the beginning of the 4th age of the existence of Israel, the man, i.e. God, wanted to have the fig tree destroyed. However, the vinedresser, i.e. Jesus, asked the man if he could tend the fig tree for one more season before that decision was made, that is at the beginning of the 5th season of their existence. The beginning of their 5th season/age of existence is a near future event and if Israel does not repent, then Jesus clearly stated in verse 5 above that Israel would also perish.

But you have already rejected this argument, so what difference will it make now. You will hold onto your opinions and not budge in my humble opinion, but you can prove me wrong in that opinion if you want to as well.

Shalom
 
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Stranger

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Stranger, you provide Jeremiah 31:35-37 as proof that God could not reject Israel, but this passage of Jeremiah occurs after Israel is redeemed in our near future around the time of Armageddon, when God refurbishes the Mt Sinai Kingdom of Priests and a Holy Nation and His possession among the Nation Covenant, which they had rebelled against within 40 days of entering into this covenant at Mt Sinai, once more, after Israel accepts the terms of Peace offered to them by Christ, at Armageddon.

My pointing to the parable that Jesus told concerning the owner of the vineyard coming to inspect the fig tree that he had planted in the centre of his vineyard. With some difficulty at present, I have gone looking for where this parable is found, as he motherboard in my computer died and was not available when I previously posted mentioning this parable. This is the parable I was referring too: -

Luke 13: 1 - 9

Repent or Perish

1 There were present at that time some that told him of the Galileans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices.

2 And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose you that these Galileans were sinners above all the Galileans, because they suffered such things?

3 I tell you, Nay: but, except you repent, you shall all likewise perish.

4 Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and killed them, think you that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem?

5 I tell you, Nay: but, except you repent, you shall all likewise perish.

Parable of the Fig Tree

6 He spoke also this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none.

7 Then said he unto the vinedresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I have come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbers it the ground?

8 And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and fertilize it:

9 And if it bears fruit, well: and if not, then after that you shall cut it down.

Now in this parable we should understand that a season is representative of an Age. That the Fig Tree is representative of Israel. That after the third season of the existence of the fig tree, i.e. at the beginning of the 4th age of the existence of Israel,
the man, i.e. God, wanted to have the fig tree destroyed. However, the vinedresser, i.e. Jesus, asked the man if he could tend the fig tree for one more season before that decision was made, that is at the beginning of the 5th season of their existence. The beginning of their 5th season/age of existence is a near future event and if Israel does not repent, then Jesus clearly stated in verse 5 above that Israel would also perish.

But you have already rejected this argument, so what difference will it make now. You will hold onto your opinions and not budge in my humble opinion, but you can prove me wrong in that opinion if you want to as well.

Shalom

I gave several verses that prove God will not reject Israel. (Jer. 31:35-37) was just one reference. These verses are given by Jeremiah during the time of the Babylonian destruction of Judah and Jerusalem. They are true concerning Israel no matter what time you want to view Israel in.

Concerning the parable, first of all, God has come against Israel in judgement many times. But none of these judgments are final in that Israel is forever destroyed. (Is. 42:24-43:7) "Who gave Jacob for a spoil, and Israel to the robbers? did not the LORD, he against whom we have sinned? for they would not walk in his ways, neither were they obedient unto his law...But now thus saith the LORD that created thee, O Jacob,and he that formed thee, O Israel, Fear not: for I have redeemed thee, I have called thee by thy name; thou art mine....."

Second of all, I believe the vineyard should be compared to Israel and the fig tree the generation to whom Christ is speaking. (Is. 5:1-7) "...For the vineyard of the LORD of hosts is the house of Israel, and the men of Judah his pleasant plant: and he looked for judgment, but behold oppression; for righteousness, but behold a cry. " Christ had warned of such judgement upon the existing generation in (Luke 11:50) "That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation;" But though God may judge and chastise a whole generation or generations of Israelites, He will never destroy Israel. He will establish Israel as the leading nation of the world.

I am curious as to your remark of your computer dying and so could not find certain verses in the Bible. The computer is very helpful, but you do own a Bible, don't you? Or do you get your Bible from the computer? If you got a Bible and just read the Old Testament from beginning to end, you would see the myriads of verses that proclaim a judgement against Israel but always mixed with the promise that God will never destroy Israel forever. Always mixed with the promises that God will restore Israel.

Stranger
 

VictoryinJesus

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Jerusalem is Spirit (from above). We are to worship in Spirit. Those that are His belong to her, are born out of her (the new creation).

Hebrews 13:13-14
[13] Let us go forth therefore unto him without the camp, bearing his reproach. [14] For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come.

As in does not continue. Why focus on the one that does not continue but rather on the one that does.
 
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Jay Ross

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@Stranger,

Is not God's promises of redeeming Israel conditional on their willingness to repent of their iniquities?

If they will not repent, will God redeem them all anyway or does He not talk of a remnant of repentant Israelites who will be redeemed?

It seems to me that this discussion between us, is for you in that you are defending your perceptions of what you believe God is like. Whether God decides to redeem or destroy Israel, it is His decision and the circumstances around what decision he makes is dependant on a number of conditional requirements He has for Israel on His part.

God could decide to take one particular action out of many possible choices that he might have concerning the future destiny of Israel. He could decide to destroy Israel because of their hard hearts, or he could decide to allow Israel to live and be saved. But that choice is still God's, irrespective of whether or not the Bible records that God could/will save Israel at some stage in our future.

That, as far as I am concerned, is God's choice, and I am fine with whatever choice he makes concerning the future of Israel. It is not mine to make or decide on. That is clearly God's responsibility.
 

Stranger

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@Stranger,

Is not God's promises of redeeming Israel conditional on their willingness to repent of their iniquities?

If they will not repent, will God redeem them all anyway or does He not talk of a remnant of repentant Israelites who will be redeemed?

It seems to me that this discussion between us, is for you in that you are defending your perceptions of what you believe God is like. Whether God decides to redeem or destroy Israel, it is His decision and the circumstances around what decision he makes is dependant on a number of conditional requirements He has for Israel on His part.

God could decide to take one particular action out of many possible choices that he might have concerning the future destiny of Israel. He could decide to destroy Israel because of their hard hearts, or he could decide to allow Israel to live and be saved. But that choice is still God's, irrespective of whether or not the Bible records that God could/will save Israel at some stage in our future.

That, as far as I am concerned, is God's choice, and I am fine with whatever choice he makes concerning the future of Israel. It is not mine to make or decide on. That is clearly God's responsibility.

Very wordy.

It is clearly God's responsibility. And, as I have showed, God will never destroy Israel forever. He will establish Israel as He promised. This is opposite of what you are claiming.

Do you own a Bible?

Stranger
 

Jay Ross

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Very wordy.

It is clearly God's responsibility. And, as I have showed, God will never destroy Israel forever. He will establish Israel as He promised. This is opposite of what you are claiming.

Do you own a Bible?

Stranger

Sadly, you are not understanding my post and what I am saying. Obviously, there will be a remnant of Israel who repent of there iniquities in our near future, in line with the terms set for them, at the time of Armageddon, so that God can use them to fulfil His purposes with the remnant of Israel.

It seems that you do not understand the implications of the word "could" which does not imply that it will definitely happen.

This discussion has been about your understanding of the English usage of words, like "could." It has had little to do with being able to read and understand a bible which we might own and use and it is also about our respective miss understandings, that we each have, of who the person of God is.
 

Stranger

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Sadly, you are not understanding my post and what I am saying. Obviously, there will be a remnant of Israel who repent of there iniquities in our near future, in line with the terms set for them, at the time of Armageddon, so that God can use them to fulfil His purposes with the remnant of Israel.

It seems that you do not understand the implications of the word "could" which does not imply that it will definitely happen.

This discussion has been about your understanding of the English usage of words, like "could." It has had little to do with being able to read and understand a bible which we might own and use and it is also about our respective miss understandings, that we each have, of who the person of God is.

No, this discussion has been about your ignorance in the Word of God. I have provided Scripture that proves you wrong and you now turn to claims of understanding English language. Please.

Get a Bible if you want to start talking about the Bible. Then get back with me.

Stranger
 

Jay Ross

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No, this discussion has been about your ignorance in the Word of God. I have provided Scripture that proves you wrong and you now turn to claims of understanding English language. Please.

Get a Bible if you want to start talking about the Bible. Then get back with me.

Stranger

But it has not been dependant on me quoting you scripture. When I did post scriptures, you twisted them to suit/match your understanding to justify yourself. Whether my bible is on my phone, computer or is found in book form does not make anything I posted wrong. What I posted you did not understand, full stop. Remember God was wanting to destroy the Israelites at Mt Sinai but Moses talked Him around to not doing just that. God can and does change His mind. The consequences of the sins of the father will be dished out on the father just as the consequences of the sins of the son will be dished out on the son, particularly if they do not repent of their iniquities.

When you begin to understand the scriptures, then perhaps your comments will be treated with the respect they will desire. At present they are questionable with respect to this discussion between us. Remember "Could" indicates a possibility, until a finial decision is made. That decision is still a near future event. God knows what the outcome will be, all I am doing is not pre-empting what the final outcome will be.
 

pia

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Oh Brother ! Here it is again, round and round it goes, where it stops nobody knows....What a horrible joke it has turned out to be..Who's Bible is right? Who's reading the Bible right? Who's understanding whichever Bible right ?
Easy to see why the entire 'church' system is in such disarray and division, each system 'churning out' offspring according to their own kind......Not God's kind !
 
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Stranger

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But it has not been dependant on me quoting you scripture. When I did post scriptures, you twisted them to suit/match your understanding to justify yourself. Whether my bible is on my phone, computer or is found in book form does not make anything I posted wrong. What I posted you did not understand, full stop. Remember God was wanting to destroy the Israelites at Mt Sinai but Moses talked Him around to not doing just that. God can and does change His mind. The consequences of the sins of the father will be dished out on the father just as the consequences of the sins of the son will be dished out on the son, particularly if they do not repent of their iniquities.

When you begin to understand the scriptures, then perhaps your comments will be treated with the respect they will desire. At present they are questionable with respect to this discussion between us. Remember "Could" indicates a possibility, until a finial decision is made. That decision is still a near future event. God knows what the outcome will be, all I am doing is not pre-empting what the final outcome will be.

I am not interested in your or anyone else's respect. Yes, God knows the out come and He has given us the Bible to know it also. And I gave you many Scriptures that show God's mind concerning Israel that He will never destroy Israel, but will instead restablish her. There was no twisting of these Scriptures.

For you to say you don't believe it because it is still future is non-sense.

Stranger
 

Stranger

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Oh Brother ! Here it is again, round and round it goes, where it stops nobody knows....What a horrible joke it has turned out to be..Who's Bible is right? Who's reading the Bible right? Who's understanding whichever Bible right ?
Easy to see why the entire 'church' system is in such disarray and division, each system 'churning out' offspring according to their own kind......Not God's kind !

And what do you and others like yourself offer? You offer your interpretation of what Jesus speaks to you, with no checks or balances other than love. If you're talking about Jesus and love, it must be good.

Stranger
 

pia

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If you're talking about Jesus and love, it must be good.
Is it some form of sickness people have, when they think it appropriate to poke fun at Jesus or calling Him a liar or the person whom He has spoken to a liar ???? When have I EVER said what you just accused me of ? Listen Stranger....I am only answering as I think it would be rude not to, but we did come to an agreement , did we not, that you would stop sending these to me ? Since I wasn't writing to you and I know where you say you stand, I can see absolute zero 'oneness' between us, so I have no wish to be entangled in it...
I get it, you cannot and will not receive my testimony and that's fine, I can't and won't change it, to somehow keep you happy, so there it is..............
 
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Jay Ross

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Oh Brother ! Here it is again, round and round it goes, where it stops nobody knows....What a horrible joke it has turned out to be..Who's Bible is right? Who's reading the Bible right? Who's understanding whichever Bible right ?
Easy to see why the entire 'church' system is in such disarray and division, each system 'churning out' offspring according to their own kind......Not God's kind !

My present experience tells me that this is true.
 
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Stranger

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Is it some form of sickness people have, when they think it appropriate to poke fun at Jesus or calling Him a liar or the person whom He has spoken to a liar ???? When have I EVER said what you just accused me of ? Listen Stranger....I am only answering as I think it would be rude not to, but we did come to an agreement , did we not, that you would stop sending these to me ? Since I wasn't writing to you and I know where you say you stand, I can see absolute zero 'oneness' between us, so I have no wish to be entangled in it...
I get it, you cannot and will not receive my testimony and that's fine, I can't and won't change it, to somehow keep you happy, so there it is..............

I did not make fun of Jesus. You showed your disgust at my viewing the Bible as the written Word of God. And I voiced my opinion of the danger of your method of discerning what Jesus is saying while at the same time rejecting the Bible as the Word of God.

Stranger
 

pia

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You showed your disgust at my viewing the Bible
What ??? I have done nothing but say over and over again how amazed I became at just how many things He had explained in plain English to me, that I found written in the Bible years later....What I have a bit of a problem with, is when people try to squeeze all of God into a few pages, and how people say God wrote it.....I can think of many many places in the Bible where I found it to say opposite things about the same thing, so if you truly believe God would do that to us , then I am more confused than ever.....Anyway I will say my goodbye now, as I am not coming on anymore....This is a futile thing we do here, like most of men's works are......Besides, who on this forum can truly say that they 'know me' from the many pages and posts I have written on the forum ? I'll tell you how many......zero !
But one on this forum has met me in real life, and we have known one another since 2001, I think we met for the first time, so this person would obviously know me in ways no one on this forum ever could....Same with the Lord....so much can be read, but why people don't want to know Him personally will be a huge question mark in my heart till the day I'm no longer here...All the best of luck to you Stranger....pity it had to stay like that....
 

Stranger

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What ??? I have done nothing but say over and over again how amazed I became at just how many things He had explained in plain English to me, that I found written in the Bible years later....What I have a bit of a problem with, is when people try to squeeze all of God into a few pages, and how people say God wrote it.....I can think of many many places in the Bible where I found it to say opposite things about the same thing, so if you truly believe God would do that to us , then I am more confused than ever.....Anyway I will say my goodbye now, as I am not coming on anymore....This is a futile thing we do here, like most of men's works are......Besides, who on this forum can truly say that they 'know me' from the many pages and posts I have written on the forum ? I'll tell you how many......zero !
But one on this forum has met me in real life, and we have known one another since 2001, I think we met for the first time, so this person would obviously know me in ways no one on this forum ever could....Same with the Lord....so much can be read, but why people don't want to know Him personally will be a huge question mark in my heart till the day I'm no longer here...All the best of luck to you Stranger....pity it had to stay like that....

You need to quote the whole sentence. I said, "You showed your disgust at my viewing the Bible as the written Word of God". Thus you need not ask "what???"

No one is trying to squeeze God into a few pages. But the Bible is God's revelation to us at this time. It does not tell us everything about God, but all that it tells us about God is true.

If you see the Bible as not written by God, just men, then it has no authority over the believer.

Stranger
 

Jay Ross

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What ??? I have done nothing but say over and over again how amazed I became at just how many things He had explained in plain English to me, that I found written in the Bible years later....What I have a bit of a problem with, is when people try to squeeze all of God into a few pages, and how people say God wrote it.....I can think of many many places in the Bible where I found it to say opposite things about the same thing, so if you truly believe God would do that to us , then I am more confused than ever.....Anyway I will say my goodbye now, as I am not coming on anymore....This is a futile thing we do here, like most of men's works are......Besides, who on this forum can truly say that they 'know me' from the many pages and posts I have written on the forum ? I'll tell you how many......zero !
But one on this forum has met me in real life, and we have known one another since 2001, I think we met for the first time, so this person would obviously know me in ways no one on this forum ever could....Same with the Lord....so much can be read, but why people don't want to know Him personally will be a huge question mark in my heart till the day I'm no longer here...All the best of luck to you Stranger....pity it had to stay like that....

I am sorry to see you departing. The zeal of some is so debilitating that it becomes a struggle to hold a straight face when one reads what they pen.