The Wrath of the Lord

[ATP]

15 years? Before it was 20.

 

[keras]

Yes, I do wonder why I carry on with you two deluded and deceived people.

Serious studiers of the Bible prophesies know that there is yet to happen the last seven year period of Daniel 9:27. Then in Ezekiel 39:9 there is another seven year period, where those who will then inhabit the holy Land will clear the weapons of Gog's army. This makes 14 years at least between the next prophesied event, the Sixth Seal and the Return of Jesus. So from 2015, 15 to 20 years is as good a guess as any for the fulfillment of all the last days events.
That will take us to about 2030 and the Return will be exactly 2000 years from the day Jesus commenced His ministry on earth.

 

[ATP]

Serious studiers of the Bible prophesies know that there is yet to happen the last seven year period of Daniel 9:27.

I agree here.

Then in Ezekiel 39:9 there is another seven year period, where those who will then inhabit the holy Land will clear the weapons of Gog's army. This makes 14 years at least between the next prophesied event, the Sixth Seal and the Return of Jesus. So from 2015, 15 to 20 years is as good a guess as any for the fulfillment of all the last days events. That will take us to about 2030 and the Return will be exactly 2000 years from the day Jesus commenced His ministry on earth.

I would disagree here. Haven't you been watching the news. Russia is everywhere in the media. I believe the Ezek 38-39 magog war will begin 3.5 years before the 70th week. They will be burning weapons for fuel for seven years, and then they will stop burning weapons at the middle of the 70th week and take their fuel into the wilderness Ezek 39:9 NIV.

The reason I believe this is because it's hard to burn weapons when you are fleeing for your life Matt 24:15-16 NIV, Rev 12:6 NIV.

I also believe Psalm 83 war will precede Ezek 38-39. It's interesting because ISIS and Russia are everywhere in the news. They are fulfilling prophecy and don't even know it.

 

[keras]

Thank you, ATP, this is reasoned discussion.
Yes, Psalm 83 will come before the Gog/Magog attack. And you are correct, it will be mainly Russia, with other peoples, some from the far reaches of the North. Ezekiel 38:6
You could be right- the weapons burning may include some of the last seven years. Prophecy doesn't tell us, however I see that as not so likely and the time left until the Church age is completed allows for the righteous people of God to become settled and prosperous in the Land, Ezekiel 38:12. All the current inhabitants, except a Jewish remnant, will be gone and the Lord's people will be undefended, quite unlike the situation at present. Ezekiel 38:11

Do you not think it would be good to live there? It Is God's plan after all:
[SIZE=11pt]Psalm 50:5[/SIZE] Gather to Me, My loyal servants, those who by sacrifice have made a covenant with Me.
[SIZE=11pt]Isaiah 41:1-10 [/SIZE]Listen in silence, you coasts and islands, together we go to the place of judgement. My servants summoned from the ends of the earth, have no fear, you will be strengthened and helped by My Right Hand. [Jesus]
[SIZE=11pt]Isaiah 49:8-23 [/SIZE]They are coming, some from far away. My people, not forgotten, they are inscribed on the palms of My hands. All of them, assembling flooding back to the Land. The nations will bear your children in their arms. So many that the place is too cramped. None who look to Me will be disappointed.
[SIZE=11pt]Zephaniah 3:16-20 [/SIZE]On that Day; fear not, the Lord your God is in your midst [not visible – the same as in the first Exodus. 1 Cor. 9:4] and will keep you safe. I will rescue the lost, gather the dispersed and bring you home.
[SIZE=11pt]Isaiah 27:13 [/SIZE]On the Day, a great trumpet will sound and those lost in Assyria, [the 10 tribes] and those exiled in Egypt [the Jews] will come to worship the Lord in Jerusalem.
[SIZE=11pt]Isaiah 60:1-9 [/SIZE]Arise and shine, Jerusalem, your sons and daughters are coming from afar, sailing along like clouds in vessels from the coasts and islands, returning your children from distant places, to the honour of the Lord, for He has given you the glory.

[SIZE=11pt]Jeremiah 31:8-9 [/SIZE]See how the Lord gathers His people from the far ends of the earth, among them; the blind and the lame, children and pregnant women. A vast company, they return, weeping as they come, but I will comfort them and lead them by streams of water.
[SIZE=11pt]Psalm 107:103 [/SIZE]Those who were redeemed by the Lord and gathered from the North, West, East and the South, will say: Give thanks to the Lord, for His love endures forever!
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[StanJ]

Serious studiers of the Bible prophesies know that there is yet to happen the last seven year period of Daniel 9:27. Then in Ezekiel 39:9 there is another seven year period, where those who will then inhabit the holy Land will clear the weapons of Gog's army. This makes 14 years at least between the next prophesied event, the Sixth Seal and the Return of Jesus. So from 2015, 15 to 20 years is as good a guess as any for the fulfillment of all the last days events.
That will take us to about 2030 and the Return will be exactly 2000 years from the day Jesus commenced His ministry on earth.

Then why don't you cite some serious studiers, who are ALSO credentialed, along with their works?

 

[keras]

Then why don't you cite some serious studiers, who are ALSO credentialed, along with their works?

Would doing that convince you?
The proof is in Daniel 9:27, where he prophesies something that is yet to be fulfilled.

Re the 2000 years between the 2 Advents of Jesus.: He prophesied this gap in Luke 13:32 and Hosea 6:2, a day to God = 1000 years earth time.

 

[StanJ]

Would doing that convince you?
The proof is in Daniel 9:27, where he prophesies something that is yet to be fulfilled.

Re the 2000 years between the 2 Advents of Jesus.: He prophesied this gap in Luke 13:32 and Hosea 6:2, a day to God = 1000 years earth time.

Maybe, but you haven't even tried to.

Not understanding the analogy of 1000 years is LIKE a day to God doesn't really score any brownie points for you. It just shows that God is NOT subject to time, not that He can't see the difference.

 

[keras]

Stan, my proofs are in the Bible. I have yet to meet anyone or read any book that tells the whole truth of God's plan for His creation. What is said to us in Daniel 9:27, for example are things that cannot be said to have been completely fulfilled. There was actually a partial fulfilment in 160BC, but we know from 2 Thess. 2:4, the final fulfilment is yet to come.

Re the 1000 years = 1 day to God. Looking at the Hebrew and Greek in the Interlinear Scripture Analyser, we see that 'like' is not intended. Like is not used in the KJV. A definitive formula is given by two witnesses, not an airy-fairy, whatever you like to think, difference.
You are saying plain scripture can be allegorised and not taken for what is plainly said. A very tenuous and shaky belief.

 

[StanJ]

Stan, my proofs are in the Bible. I have yet to meet anyone or read any book that tells the whole truth of God's plan for His creation. What is said to us in Daniel 9:27, for example are things that cannot be said to have been completely fulfilled. There was actually a partial fulfilment in 160BC, but we know from 2 Thess. 2:4, the final fulfilment is yet to come.

Re the 1000 years = 1 day to God. Looking at the Hebrew and Greek in the Interlinear Scripture Analyser, we see that 'like' is not intended. Like is not used in the KJV. A definitive formula is given by two witnesses, not an airy-fairy, whatever you like to think, difference.
You are saying plain scripture can be allegorised and not taken for what is plainly said. A very tenuous and shaky belief.

Obviously NOT, if you can't show them.

The Greek word use is hos, and is a conjunction formed from the relative pronoun ὅς, used as a comparative part. and conj., as, correlatively. Like, or 'as' both work, and the KJV uses 'as'. With this type of bad exposition, no wonder people doubt you so much. You can't even get straight translations and connotations down properly.

 

[keras]

I stand by the fact that two witnesses; Psalms 90:4, 2 Peter 3:7, both clearly state the formula of 1 day to God in heaven equals 1000 years on earth.

Do you want me to write a book on that subject? I could, but I try to keep my post on forums short, as I know anything over 2 paragraphs is often unread.

I did give two supporting verses: Hosea 6:2 and Luke 13:32.
Many denominations support the 7 Days of Creation, being a parallel for the 7 thousand year period of mankind. There was 4000 years from Adam to Jesus and we are now nearly at the end of 6000 years. Soon to come is the 1000 year reign of Jesus. Do you disagree with this?

 

[StanJ]

I stand by the fact that two witnesses; Psalms 90:4, 2 Peter 3:7, both clearly state the formula of 1 day to God in heaven equals 1000 years on earth.

Do you want me to write a book on that subject? I could, but I try to keep my post on forums short, as I know anything over 2 paragraphs is often unread.

I did give two supporting verses: Hosea 6:2 and Luke 13:32.
Many denominations support the 7 Days of Creation, being a parallel for the 7 thousand year period of mankind. There was 4000 years from Adam to Jesus and we are now nearly at the end of 6000 years. Soon to come is the 1000 year reign of Jesus. Do you disagree with this?

You call scripture witnesses? I suspect ONLY to support your misinformed attempt to make scripture like Deut 19:15, Matt 18:16, & 2 Cor 13:1 analogous to your opinion. You would be wrong. Clearly witnesses are reputable people.

As far as Hosea 6:2 is concerned, many commentaries are of the same opinion...."The expression of time here employed denotes a comparatively short period, and implies that Israel's revival would be speedily as well as certainly accomplished. Paucity is signified by the binary number in Old Testament language, just as we speak of two, or a couple, in the sense of fewness. In 1 Kings 17:12 we find "two" used in this way:"
I don't ascribe to ANY kind of numerology that cannot be clearly supported in scripture, and just claiming it without SHOWING it, is not enough to sway any THINKING believer.
Remember, even Jesus said; "NO MAN knows the hours or the day." I find it useless and dangerous for anyone to claim they do.

 

[keras]

Yes, I do call the Prophets and the Apostles witnesses. Do you deny they are 'reputable people'?

As for taking any cognisance of what the commentators before, say 2010 wrote, you will only fall into the same errors as all of them. Daniel 12:9 states that the prophetic Words are to be kept secret until the time of the end. Obviously it wasn't the time of the end when they published and from the plethora of confused and different opinions, to try and gain the truth from them about the future is impossible.

Jesus said: No man knows the Day....Then in Luke 21:34-36 He says: we should be aware of the coming Day that will come suddenly, like a trap upon everyone the whole world over. Pray for the strength to stand firm on that Day, that The Lord will protect His people from all that is coming and so they will be able to stand in His presence.

Are you aware of what is coming? From what you say above, it seems you discount and ignore prophecy. 2 Peter 1:19 says it is good to study prophecy.

 

[StanJ]

Yes, I do call the Prophets and the Apostles witnesses. Do you deny they are 'reputable people'?

As for taking any cognisance of what the commentators before, say 2010 wrote, you will only fall into the same errors as all of them. Daniel 12:9 states that the prophetic Words are to be kept secret until the time of the end. Obviously it wasn't the time of the end when they published and from the plethora of confused and different opinions, to try and gain the truth from them about the future is impossible.

Jesus said: No man knows the Day....Then in Luke 21:34-36 He says: we should be aware of the coming Day that will come suddenly, like a trap upon everyone the whole world over. Pray for the strength to stand firm on that Day, that The Lord will protect His people from all that is coming and so they will be able to stand in His presence.

Are you aware of what is coming? From what you say above, it seems you discount and ignore prophecy. 2 Peter 1:19 says it is good to study prophecy.

NOT what I asked you.

So everyone is wrong but you? Very supercilious keras.

All Luke 21:34-36 does is confirm believers will NOT be there at that time, not WHEN that time will be.

The prophetic message Peter speaks of was Jesus Himself. If you didn't cherry pick you would note Peter also said;
For we did not follow cleverly devised stories when we told you about the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ in power, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

I am aware of what the Bible tells me WILL happen, and I'm aware that NO MAN knows when that will be. We are admonished to LIVE in the MOMENT, not live in the future.
Now listen, you who say, “Today or tomorrow we will go to this or that city, spend a year there, carry on business and make money.” Why, you do not even know what will happen tomorrow. What is your life? You are a mist that appears for a little while and then vanishes. Instead, you ought to say, “If it is the Lord’s will, we will live and do this or that.” James 4:13-15

 

[keras]

NOT what I asked you.​ Quote, StanJ
Do you want me to give out the names of my friends and fellow believers? Not likely!

So everyone is wrong but you? Very supercilious keras.​ Quote StanJ
Not everyone, just those who have chosen to believe false teachings. If I come across as a 'know it all', that is because I present the truth of the Bible. I am just a messenger.

All Luke 21:34-36 does is confirm believers will NOT be there at that time, not WHEN that time will be.​ Quote StanJ
Absolutely wrong! The Words are: That Day will come upon everyone that whole world over..... Proof of your delusion and error.

The prophetic message Peter speaks of was Jesus Himself. If you didn't cherry pick you would note Peter also said; Quote StanJ.
For we did not follow cleverly devised stories when we told you about the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ in power, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty.
2 Peter 3:1-7 says that people like you will disbelieve what all the ancient prophets wrote about the forthcoming judgement of fire, instigated by Jesus. Hab. 3:12, Rom. 1:18



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[StanJ]

Do you want me to give out the names of my friends and fellow believers? Not likely!

Not everyone, just those who have chosen to believe false teachings. If I come across as a 'know it all', that is because I present the truth of the Bible. I am just a messenger.


Absolutely wrong! The Words are: That Day will come upon everyone that whole world over..... Proof of your delusion and error.


2 Peter 3:1-7 says that people like you will disbelieve what all the ancient prophets wrote about the forthcoming judgement of fire, instigated by Jesus. Hab. 3:12, Rom. 1:18



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You continue to avoid a very simple and direct question.

So anyone who disagree with you is automatically wrong because YOU say so?

Yes, as ALL believers would have been raptured by then. Hello? The error is on your part keras, NOT the scriptures, which you apparently can only eisegete.

No, Peter talked about their testimony and their gospel of truth, NOT you and yours. You read it but have no eyes or ears to understand it.

 

[keras]

Anyone who disagrees with the truth of the Bible is wrong.
All who believe in a rapture to heaven of living people before the Lord sends His wrath upon the world, a theory that is nowhere prophesied or was ever part of God's plan, have been deceived by this false teaching. That is bad enough, but to actively promote and teach it yourself, places those who do that at risk of serious judgement. James 3:1

What 2 Peter 3:1-7 wrote is his words not mine. They aren't really hard to understand: people like I see here will scoff at the idea of a judgement of fire. They will treat what the prophets said as worthless, because they have already decided for themselves what they want God to do.
What will actually happen will come as a nasty shock to them.

 

[StanJ]

Anyone who disagrees with the truth of the Bible is wrong.
All who believe in a rapture to heaven of living people before the Lord sends His wrath upon the world, a theory that is nowhere prophesied or was ever part of God's plan, have been deceived by this false teaching. That is bad enough, but to actively promote and teach it yourself, places those who do that at risk of serious judgement. James 3:1

What 2 Peter 3:1-7 wrote is his words not mine. They aren't really hard to understand: people like I see here will scoff at the idea of a judgement of fire. They will treat what the prophets said as worthless, because they have already decided for themselves what they want God to do.
What will actually happen will come as a nasty shock to them.

Again, avoiding a direct question. I don't question the Bible, I question your understanding and lack of proper exegesis.
If you don't get 1 Cor 15:50-58, or 1 Thess 4:13-18, or Luke 17:34-37, you NEVER will.

Peter used the word LIKE, not IS. I don't know what else you refer to. You often get very equivocal and obfuscative when addressing direct questions....NOT what a teacher who actually has truth to teach does.

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

Anyone who disagrees with the truth of the Bible is wrong.

Except when rabbi keras presents "THE TRUTH OF THE BIBLE" - he re-writes Scripture!

 

[ATP]

Anyone who disagrees with the truth of the Bible is wrong.
All who believe in a rapture to heaven of living people before the Lord sends His wrath upon the world, a theory that is nowhere prophesied or was ever part of God's plan, have been deceived by this false teaching. That is bad enough, but to actively promote and teach it yourself, places those who do that at risk of serious judgement. James 3:1

What 2 Peter 3:1-7 wrote is his words not mine. They aren't really hard to understand: people like I see here will scoff at the idea of a judgement of fire. They will treat what the prophets said as worthless, because they have already decided for themselves what they want God to do.
What will actually happen will come as a nasty shock to them.

Why do you rewrite scripture. You did it with Isa 30:26.

 

[keras]

Again, avoiding a direct question. I don't question the Bible, I question your understanding and lack of proper exegesis.
If you don't get 1 Cor 15:50-58, or 1 Thess 4:13-18, or Luke 17:34-37, you NEVER will.

Peter used the word LIKE, not IS. I don't know what else you refer to. You often get very equivocal and obfuscative when addressing direct questions....NOT what a teacher who actually has truth to teach does.

Do your three Bible quotes actually say God will take live people to live in heaven? As I know they don't, then why do you believe such a thing will happen?

Re the 1000 years = 1 Day to God: both Peter and Psalm 90 use 'as'. The real proof of this formula is the fact there was exactly 4000 years from Adam to Jesus, and we have had almost 2000 years since Jesus. We await the last 1000 years of Jesus' Millennial reign. On earth.

ATP, what I do with the Prophetic Word, is try to make it understandable to modern people. I have been thanked for doing this by many, but for those whose fixed beliefs are challenged by having the truth brought out, then as I experience here; abuse and personal attack is my reward.