There is no Rapture!

[John839]

There is a misguided group (Dispensationalists) that claims that Christians will be raptured from the earth before the reign of the Antichrist (Tribulation). This group is truly devilish.

This doctrine of a Pre-Tribulation Rapture was invented by a wicked man named John Darby who was a dispensationalist in the 19th century. Before Darby, there was no belief in a Pre-Tribulation Rapture within Christianity.

The Bible clearly states that Christians must go through the Tribulation, for Revelation 20:4 describes how Christians will be beheaded for their faith during the Tribulation. If there really was a Rapture before the Tribulation, then logically there would be no Christians in the Tribulation, but since there will be Christians in the Tribulation, that means there will be no Rapture before the Tribulation. Revelation 13:7 also states that Christians will be given into the hand of the Antichrist, which means that the Antichrist will kill Christians.

The Pre-Tribulation Rapture is a very evil and dangerous false doctrine. It is evil and dangerous because when the Antichrist appears and begins his kingdom, all these people who have been deceived by the Zionist dispensationalists will think that the Antichrist is not the Antichrist because the supposed rapture has not happened. This false teaching will be to the advantage of the Antichrist.

Jesus will come back only once, and that will be after the tribulation, then he will gather all Christians (Matthew 24:29-31).

 

[07-07-07]

Question: why is there no mention of the Churches after Chapter 3 in the Book of Revelation, a book specifically addressed to the seven Churches? It would be odd not to mention them given what they are to endure if there is no Rapture as you claim. The Saints are mentioned, but not the Churches.

 

[GISMYS_7]

There is a misguided group (Dispensationalists) that claims that Christians will be raptured from the earth before the reign of the Antichrist (Tribulation). This group is truly devilish.

This doctrine of a Pre-Tribulation Rapture was invented by a wicked man named John Darby who was a dispensationalist in the 19th century. Before Darby, there was no belief in a Pre-Tribulation Rapture within Christianity.

The Bible clearly states that Christians must go through the Tribulation, for Revelation 20:4 describes how Christians will be beheaded for their faith during the Tribulation. If there really was a Rapture before the Tribulation, then logically there would be no Christians in the Tribulation, but since there will be Christians in the Tribulation, that means there will be no Rapture before the Tribulation. Revelation 13:7 also states that Christians will be given into the hand of the Antichrist, which means that the Antichrist will kill Christians.

The Pre-Tribulation Rapture is a very evil and dangerous false doctrine. It is evil and dangerous because when the Antichrist appears and begins his kingdom, all these people who have been deceived by the Zionist dispensationalists will think that the Antichrist is not the Antichrist because the supposed rapture has not happened. This false teaching will be to the advantage of the Antichrist.

Jesus will come back only once, and that will be after the tribulation, then he will gather all Christians (Matthew 24:29-31).

Those that feny the rapture "catching up" are left behind and face the years of great tribulation under anti-christ rul===NO FUN BUT your choce!!!

 

[covenantee]

Those that feny the rapture "catching up" are left behind and face the years of great tribulation under anti-christ rul===NO FUN BUT your choce!!!

Rapture Wimpism

Any student of Scripture with even a cursory knowledge of the NT Church knows that tribulation in the form of persecution, suffering, and death has been the lot of the Church ever since its birth. From its persecution at the hands of the Jews, to that under the Roman emperors and empires, to that today under Islam and other ideologies; the Church's experience with tribulation has been unrelenting, and its death toll over the millennia is counted in the tens of millions.

In the NT, we see in the book of Acts a complete account of how the disciples and Christ's followers were hated and persecuted as Jesus had predicted (Matthew 24:9). In Acts 4: "And they laid hands on them [Peter and John], and put them in prison" (verse 3). In Acts 5, they were "beaten" (verse 40). As they departed from the "council", they rejoiced "that they were counted worthy to suffer for his name"(verse 41). In Acts 7, Stephen was killed for his stand (verses 54-60). In Acts 8:1 "There was a great persecution against the church." In Acts 16, Paul and Silas were beaten and cast into prison. In Acts 21, persecution resulted in Paul being beaten, and brought before rulers, before whom he testified (Acts 22). In Acts 22:19 we read that Paul confessed that prior to his conversion, he had "imprisoned and beaten in every synagogue" those who believed in Christ.

There was, and is, no lack of tribulation for the NT Church.

But deplorably, we see today a generation of what can best be described as “rapture wimps.” This generation of North American believers, the most “molycoddled and milquetoast” in the history of the Christian Church, seems in large part to believe that it is also entitled to escape the trials and privations which have beset the historic Church, and to be “...carried to the skies on flowery beds of ease” as the beloved hymn “Am I a Soldier of the Cross” describes.

The following partial enumeration of NT tribulation references...:

John 16:33
These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

Acts 14:22
Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

Romans 5:3
And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;

2 Corinthians 1:4
Who comforteth us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort them which are in any trouble, by the comfort wherewith we ourselves are comforted of God.

1 Thessalonians 3:4
For verily, when we were with you, we told you before that we should suffer tribulation; even as it came to pass, and ye know.

Revelation 1:9
I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

...makes it clear that there is no room for rapture wimps in the Christian Church. In solidarity with other believers in parts of the world who suffer tribulation even as we read this, we must be prepared to, as did and do these, “fight to win the prize and sail through bloody seas”, as we see the hymnwriter further pen.


God has promised...:

John 16:33
These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

...that we can be triumphant in Him even in the midst of tribulation. He promises us all of His grace and resources to make this a reality.

But the promise is only for those who refuse to be rapture wimps.

 

[covenantee]

Question: why is there no mention of the Churches after Chapter 3 in the Book of Revelation, a book specifically addressed to the seven Churches? It would be odd not to mention them given what they are to endure if there is no Rapture as you claim. The Saints are mentioned, but not the Churches.

Where the seven Churches are mentioned, the messages are for each of those seven Churches specifically.

Where the Saints are mentioned, the messages are for all Saints, which includes all Churches everywhere.

And the Saints are present throughout the majority of the chapters in the remainder of the book.

They are not pre-trib raptured.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

How are peoples body's going to float up in the air to the clouds ? You would have to be dead ? literally speaking would it not ?

Not that i believe in the way that is peddled nowadays, in being so childish and pathetic to believe such as i have heard some claim.

Jesus is coming in the Clouds means he is coming in his majesty !
Meeting him in the Air ? Air means it's the Holy Spirit !
When you are truly born again that is what happens. You and The Holy Spirit meets him and bingo you are up too speed on the same page with him, for you know him and he you.

 

[jeffweeder]

Where the seven Churches are mentioned, the messages are for each of those seven Churches specifically.

Where the Saints are mentioned, the messages are for all Saints, which includes all Churches everywhere.

And the Saints are present throughout the majority of the chapters in the remainder of the book.

They are not pre-trib raptured.

Exactly.
The whole of Revelation was written to the bond servants , aka Church, aka saints, that we are all to persevere until Jesus actually comes again.
Seeing the manner in which Jesus comes again, this following scripture most certainly applies to those who are alive when the Lord actually does comes in the glory of his Father....,

Jude 22-24​

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Amplified Bible​

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22 And have mercy on some, who are doubting; 23 save others, snatching them out of the fire; and on some have mercy but with fear, loathing even the clothing spotted and polluted by their shameless immoral freedom.


24 Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling or falling into sin, and to present you unblemished [blameless and faultless] in the presence of His glory with triumphant joy and unspeakable delight,



The manner of his coming=,

5 This is a positive proof of the righteous judgment of God [a sign of His fair verdict], so that you will be considered worthy of His kingdom, for which indeed you are suffering. 6 For after all it is only just for God to repay with distress those who distress you, 7 and to give relief to you who are so distressed and to us as well when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in a flame of fire, 8 dealing out [full and complete] vengeance to those who do not [seek to] know God and to those who ignore and refuse to obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus [by choosing not to respond to Him]. 9 These people will pay the penalty and endure the punishment of everlasting destruction, banished from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day [that is, glorified through the changed lives of those who have accepted Him as Savior and have been set apart for His purpose], and to be marveled at among all who have believed, because our testimony to you was believed and trusted [and confirmed in your lives].

 

[ewq1938]

Question: why is there no mention of the Churches after Chapter 3 in the Book of Revelation, a book specifically addressed to the seven Churches? It would be odd not to mention them given what they are to endure if there is no Rapture as you claim. The Saints are mentioned, but not the Churches.

Two churches are mentioned in Rev 11 who are part of the two witnesses, which is set in the last part of the tribulation so the church is in the trib.

 

[ewq1938]

This doctrine of a Pre-Tribulation Rapture was invented by a wicked man named John Darby who was a dispensationalist in the 19th century. Before Darby, there was no belief in a Pre-Tribulation Rapture within Christianity.

Not true. Pre-trib existed in various forms long before that stretching back to Paul's time when he had to address that the coming of Christ and our gathering unto him (rapture) could not happen unless two major things happened, both being tribulation related. What he taught against was the earliest form of Pre-trib. People misunderstood his writing of the second coming being like "a thief in the night" and thus the any moment rapture doctrine was born.

1Th 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

This was misunderstood so Paul wrote to clarify:

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

The letter he mentions was what he said in the first letter to the Thessalonians. People misunderstood so badly what he said that he had to write again to correct them.

 

[07-07-07]

Where the seven Churches are mentioned, the messages are for each of those seven Churches specifically.

Where the Saints are mentioned, the messages are for all Saints, which includes all Churches everywhere.

And the Saints are present throughout the majority of the chapters in the remainder of the book.

They are not pre-trib raptured.

This is a less-than-satisfactory answer.

 

[07-07-07]

Two churches are mentioned in Rev 11 who are part of the two witnesses, which is set in the last part of the tribulation so the church is in the trib.

The two witnesses are not two of the seven Churches.

 

[covenantee]

This is a less-than-satisfactory answer.

It is a more-than-satisfactory answer for every recognized historical defender of the true faith up to the 19th century.

 

[ewq1938]

The two witnesses are not two of the seven Churches.

It doesn't matter if they are of those 7 or not. It does say part of the two witnesses are two candlesticks and candlestick is another way to say church.

Two Christian churches are active in the trib in Rev 11.

 

[amigo de christo]

See that second ark . THERE will be NO SECOND CHANCE when THE LORD does come .
So i suggest we dont teach such a thing . WHEN JESUS COMES FOR HIS CHURCH
HE COMETH TO LAY DOWN ALSO the wrath OF GOD against the beast , FP and all who followed it .

 

[amigo de christo]

IN OTHER WORDS , ITS A ONE TIME EVENT folks

 

[07-07-07]

Question: If the Church wasn't here during 69 of the 70 weeks determined for Israel's punishment spoken of by Daniel the prophet, why would she be here for the coming 70th?

 

[covenantee]

Question: If the Church wasn't here during 69 of the 70 weeks determined for Israel's punishment spoken of by Daniel the prophet, why would she be here for the coming 70th?

There is no "coming 70th".

The 70th came immediately after the 69th almost 2,000 years ago.

 

[Cassandra]

Those that feny the rapture "catching up" are left behind and face the years of great tribulation under anti-christ rul===NO FUN BUT your choce!!!

Why? If they love the Lord and are living up to the light they have, yet do not believe in the rapture, what difference would that make?
Sounds like opinion theology. I am certain that Jesus would still take them.
I

 

[amigo de christo]

Why? If they love the Lord and are living up to the light they have, yet do not believe in the rapture, what difference would that make?
Sounds like opinion theology. I am certain that Jesus would still take them.
I

The lie can be found within something you said . This is not to accuse you but to help .
THERE is no such thing as LOVING THE LORD , living up to the light they have . EITHIER THEY LOVE THE LORD
and thus have the light , or they do not love the LORD .
The reason i wrote this was because i have heard this being taught .
Again i am not saying you are saying what these others are , but just reminding .
I have heard the lie , the lie being sold and it will bring the second death unto all who bought it .
Again not saying you have bought it .
let me explain what i have heard being taught . And its being used against me when i try and remind folks
of the dire NEED to BELEIVE ON JESUS CHRIST .
They say , YOU JUDGER , YOU HATER , IF one is a muslim or whatever but are walking according to the light given them
and love GOD , then who are YOU , as in me to JUDGE .
WELL here is a simple reminder . IF THEY BELEIVE NOT THAT JESUS IS THE CHRIST , DENY HIM as THE CHRIST
well guess what , THEY DONT HAVE THE LIGHT NOR DO THEY LOVE GOD . This gringo gonna expose every last
word of the all inclusive false love . Again i am not saying this is what you MEANT but i am gonna remind us . NO man can stop me either .

 

[07-07-07]

There is no "coming 70th".

The 70th came immediately after the 69th almost 2,000 years ago.

Really? So when and what was the "covenant with many"? And when and what was the abomination of desolation in the middle of week? And when did Jesus return? Did everybody miss Him? Because Jesus said that in the final days people would see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel?

Daniel 9
[27] And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week [70th]: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Matthew 24
[13] But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
[14] And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
[15] When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand: )
[16] Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: