They are without excuse

[VictoryinJesus]

The invisible things of him (ta aorata autou). Another verbal adjective (a privative and horaō, to see), old word, either unseen or invisible as here and elsewhere in N.T. (Col_1:15., etc.). The attributes of God’s nature defined here as “his everlasting power and divinity” (hē te aidios autou dunamis kai theiotēs).

Aidios is for aeidios from aei (always), old word, in N.T. only here and Jud_1:6, common in Philo (zōē aidios), elsewhere aiōnios. Theiotēs is from theios (from theos) quality of theos and corresponds more to Latin divinitas from divus, divine. In Col_2:9 Paul uses theotēs (Latin deitas from deus) deity, both old words and nowhere else in the N.T. Theotēs is Divine Personality, theiotēs, Divine Nature and properties (Sanday and Headlam).

Since the creation of the world (apo ktiseōs kosmou). He means by God and unto God as antecedent to and superior to the world (cf. Col_1:15. about Christ).
Are clearly seen (kathoratai). Present passive indicative of kathoraō (perfective use of katȧ), old word, only here in N.T., with direct reference to aorata.
Being perceived (nooumena). Present passive participle of noeō, to use the nous (intellect).

That they may be without excuse (eis to einai autous anapologētous). More likely, “so that they are without excuse.” The use of eis to and the infinitive (with accusative of general reference) for result like hōste is reasonably clear in the N.T. (Moulton, Prolegomena, p. 219; Robertson, Grammar, p. 1003). Anapologētous is another verbal with an from apologeomai. Old word, in N.T. only here and Rom_2:1 (“inexcusable” here).
RWP

The invisible things of Him
The attributes which constitute God's nature, afterward defined as “His eternal power and divinity.”

From the creation (ἀπό)
From the time of. Rev., since.
Are clearly seen (καθορᾶται)

We have here an oxymoron, literally a pointedly foolish saying; a saying which is impressive or witty through sheer contradiction or paradox. Invisible things are clearly visible. See on Act_5:41. Illustrations are sometimes furnished by single words, as γλυκύπικρος bittersweet; θρασύδειλος a bold coward. In English compare Shakespeare:
“Dove-feathered raven, fiend angelical;
Beautiful tyrant, wolfish-ravening lamb.”
Spenser:
“Glad of such luck, the luckless lucky maid.”

Godhead (θειότης)
Rev., better, divinity. Godhead expresses deity (θεότης). θειότης is godhood, not godhead. It signifies the sum-total of the divine attributes.

So that they are (εἰς τὸ εἶναι)
The A.V. expresses result; but the sense is rather purpose. The revelation of God's power and divinity is given, so that, if, after being enlightened, they fall into sin, they may be without defense.
Without excuse (ἀναπολογήτους)
See on answer, 1Pe_3:15. Only here and Rom_2:1.
MV.

from the creation of the world are clearly seen; this is no new discovery, but what men have had, and might, by the light of nature, have enjoyed ever since the world was created; these
being understood, in an intellectual way, by the discursive faculty of the understanding,
by the things that are made; the various works of creation; all which proclaim the being, unity, and perfections of God their Creator,
so that they are without excuse;

the very Heathens, who have only the light of nature, and are destitute of a revelation, have no colour or pretext for their idolatrous practices, and vicious lives; nor have they, nor will they have anything to object to God's righteous judgment against them, or why they should not be condemned.
Gill

I did read your responses but I have a hard time following, not understanding how you study. I don’t mean that as criticism. Because I’m told the same thing often that what makes sense to me when I post, others say it makes no sense to them. The way you process…the way I process…are different.

For the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made-, even His eternal power and Godhead; to the end of their being they are without excuse:

Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified Him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their reasonings, and their foolish heart was darkened.

1:22 Saying that they were wise, they were fooled by their perverted minds,

Rom 1:23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into a likeness of an image of corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

Hope this answers your question.
Johann.

Only speaking from my own experience. Forty-plus years of seeing the sky, the moon, the stars, the sun, the ocean, animals and mankind, the world …and I did not in anyway understand or know His attributes, nor did I know His Divine Nature. I’m genuinely telling you that I was so confused about His Divine Nature never ever learning of Him or His Divine Nature, Divine attributes by the natural of seeing those things and then saying “wow, now I get Gods Divine attributes and His Divine Nature.” “now I know, clearly seeing His Nature”. But it was the opposite…so confused in how is Jesus Christ the expression of God the Father. They are nothing at all alike, I would think. I knew God was a tyrant, a bully, a hell-burner, a praise- seeking, authority-seeking, never pleased or never satisfied fully, enraged God who despised women, despised weakness, imprisoned and blamed me saying “you are without excuse”… “you fully have known My Divine attributes, you have fully known My Divine Nature”! I did not know though. I can say this because I now know His Divine Nature, His Divine attributes. (Without an excuse). And His Nature and Attributes seem like nothing familiar that I once knew of Him all the while walking, talking, living and being in the creation …I did not know the Creator. We all say it…we have never known or experienced Love, Mercy Or Forgiveness like that of the Father. Something so foreign to this world, something so foreign to this creation. Yet we say the creation is what declares His Nature and Attributes instead of what declares the Divine Nature, Divine Attributes is the Fruit of the Spirit of God, All the Divine Nature, the Divine Attributes, all things pertaining to Life belonging to the Spirit of God. Here is an example. I was talking to a friend the other day and we were talking about getting alone with God to worship Him and praise Him. We talking about how He wants our worship and praise.
For forty-plus years what I was taught of Him as being His Divine Nature and Divine His Attributes by the creation I would say His wanting our praise and worship was for God. As some approval of Him, as admirers to adore Him.
But now I see His Divine attributes differently, His Divine Nature differently …which I think I know and have seen because of Him the Creator and not the creation. To me His Divine Nature and Divine Attributes are this: He doesn’t need my admiration or worship or praise, but His desiring for me to praise and to worship Him is for my benefit. His knowing the best place for my focus to be turned is on Him. His knowing that when I’m scared, weak, confused, depleted it is beneficial for me to look up instead of down…as the passage says think of these things which by the way those things listed His Divine Nature, His Divine Attributes are “these things” told to think on. I’m trying to tell you from experience I dis not know His Divine Nature not His Divine Attributes for forty-plus years. Knowing only a selfish hateful God. It is only now I can begin to know …oh wow, God is beyond what I thought I knew of Him. A Loving God who wants my praise and worship and admiration because it goes well for my soul to focus on Him. And He knows this, where my focus needs to be and He helps. Maybe that is all gibberish nonsense but I experienced two versions of His Divine Nature, His Divine Nature…one I plead, Hope and Pray is His true Divine Nature and Divine Attributes because His nature is so foreign from that which is made with hands.

Personally I don’t think we want to acknowledge who the “they” are in they know His attributes, they know His Divine Nature … because our condemnation upon others and vain way of seeing will have to go …like with the Mirror we will see our own natural face and not turn away walking forward in mercy going from glory to Glory, for faith to Faith…lowercase “g” to uppercase “G” because lowercase “g” will be done away with transformed into His “Glory” …movement … continue therein “the mirror” keeping focus of Liberty, transformed from glory to Glory. 2 Corinthians 5:16-21 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more. [17] Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. [18] And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; [19] To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. [20] Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. [21] For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

We all say it…we have never known or experienced Love, Mercy Or Forgiveness like that of the Father. Something so foreign to this world, something so foreign to this creation. Yet we say the creation is what declares His Nature and Attributes instead of what declares the Divine Nature, Divine Attributes is the Fruit of the Spirit of God, All the Divine Nature, the Divine Attributes, all things pertaining to Life belonging to the Spirit of God.

To me we contradict how we know His Divine Nature, His Divine attributes by …dating our point of coming to know His Divine Nature, His Divine Attributes.
walking and talking and having our conversations in the lust of the flesh, saying the creation taught us of His Divine Nature, His Divine Attributes instead of the Creator. “Dating” a point implies there was a point prior that we did not know His Divine Nature, or Divine Attributes… “I was lost but now I’ve been found” yet we say the creation has taught them so they know and are with excuse. Did the Creator teach or the creation? What is the date that is marked in the front of bibles, as “the date I was saved and came to know Jesus.” Who taught you?

 

[Behold]

Only speaking from my own experience. Forty-plus years of seeing the sky, the moon, the stars, the sun, the ocean, animals and mankind, the world …and I did not in anyway understand or know His attributes, nor did I know His Divine Nature.

Did you look at all that for 40 yrs, and think...."God did that".

That is the point of the verse.

There is no excuse to deny the Creator, when He has shown Himself in All of Creation.

So, to deny that, is to deny the truth, hide the truth, and resist the truth, as they do.

They prefer to look at Darwin and "the fossil record" and "carbon dating", and whatever else they can use to try to FALSELY justify their denial of God's eternal existence.
They SEE God's Creation, and they still deny "The Creator" all the way to Hell.

And when the are there, denying it exists, wont help.
And "calling on the name of Jesus", then.... wont help.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Did you look at all that for 40 yrs, and think...."God did that".

That is the point of the verse.

There is no excuse to deny the Creator, when He has shown Himself in All of Creation.

So, to deny that, is to deny the truth, hide the truth, and resist the truth, as they do.

They prefer to look at Darwin and "the fossil record" and "carbon dating", and whatever else they can use to try to FALSELY justify their denial of God existence.
They SEE God's Creation, and they still deny "The Creator".

Romans 1:23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

Mark 8:37 Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

Exchange His Glory —exchange His Attributes—His Fruit —for an image of Corruptible man, bringing forth Fruit unto death.
Or exchange the image of corruptible man, bringing forth the fruit unto death for the Glory of the incorruptible God, His attributes, His attributes which make you neither barren or unfruitful in the Knowledge of Christ.

Why does He mention there has to be an exchange of an image made like unto corruptible man, birds, four footed beasts (animals) and creeping things “transformed” “cast off the old man” “Put on the New” “changed” into the Glory of the incorruptible God? Why does He say: be you not conformed to the image of the world but be you transformed by the renewing of your mind. < is there an exchange? Not exchanging His Glory for an image made like corruptible man which is born first, but that which is born Last exchanging the image of the corruptible for that which is incorruptible? His attributes, His Divine Nature. Not the works of the flesh…but The Works of the Spirit of God which pertain to Life, as He has give all things which pertain to Life.

 

[Behold]

Romans 1:23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

They change the Truth of God's Creation, into religious secular worship of the created things...themselves.

"Tree Huggers". "Environmentalists". "Disciples of PAN".

Have you ever dealt with any European Pagans?

Denmark, Holland, Sweden, ????

They are a prime example of worshiping the CREATION< in place of the Creator.

They love "Mother Earth", but they avoid God who created it.

They made a "God" out of the created, which they worship.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

They change the Truth of God's Creation, into religious secular worship of the created things...themselves.

"Tree Huggers". "Environmentalists". "Disciples of PAN".

Have you ever dealt with any European Pagans?

Denmark, Holland, Sweden, ????

They are a prime example of worshiping the CREATION< in place of the Creator.

They love "Mother Earth", but they avoid God who created it.

They made a "God" out of the created, which they worship.

What is His Divine Nature, what are His Divine Attributes?

 

[Mr E]

To me we contradict how we know His Divine Nature, His Divine attributes by …dating our point of coming to know His Divine Nature, His Divine Attributes.
walking and talking and having our conversations in the lust of the flesh, saying the creation taught us of His Divine Nature, His Divine Attributes instead of the Creator. “Dating” a point implies there was a point prior that we did not know His Divine Nature, or Divine Attributes… “I was lost but now I’ve been found” yet we say the creation has taught them so they know and are with excuse. Did the Creator teach or the creation? What is the date that is marked in the front of bibles, as “the date I was saved and came to know Jesus.” Who taught you?

I don't mean to lead you along, because I think you walk fine on your own. I love your honest inquiries. Maybe I can at least point you in the right direction....

It's already been mentioned that you can only focus your attention one way at one time. For the moment-- look up. When you ask--"Who are the they?" -consider what it says of 'them' -- "They" suppress the truth. "They" knew God. "They" thought themselves wise, but became fools. "They" exchanged the glory of God for images.

With a spiritual perspective (looking up) it becomes rather obvious who the 'they' are. Who "knew" God, but exchanged that immortal life, trading it for images? (nah nah naaaaaah, nah nah nah)

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I don't mean to lead you along, because I think you walk fine on your own. I love your honest inquiries. Maybe I can at least point you in the right direction....

It's already been mentioned that you can only focus your attention one way at one time. For the moment-- look up. When you ask--"Who are the they?" -consider what it says of 'them' -- "They" suppress the truth. "They" knew God. "They" thought themselves wise, but became fools. "They" exchanged the glory of God for images.

With a spiritual perspective (looking up) it becomes rather obvious who the 'they' are. Who "knew" God, but exchanged that immortal life, trading it for images? (nah nah naaaaaah, nah nah nah)

I welcome and appreciate your pointing in the right direction. I’m not sure though. Do you mean the Sons of God? Because I’m not following. It makes me think of the passage
Hebrews 2:14-16 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; [15] And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. [16] For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

Struggling to see what you are speaking of.

 

[Mr E]

I welcome and appreciate your pointing in the right direction. I’m not sure though. Do you mean the Sons of God? Because I’m not following. It makes me think of the passage
Hebrews 2:14-16 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; [15] And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. [16] For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

Struggling to see what you are speaking of.

The scene is described in Rev 12 as a battle that takes place in 'heaven' -a spiritual battle.

Mentioned elsewhere in Isaiah 14.

"They" knew God. They traded their place above, for things below.

 

[Waiting on him]

The scene is described in Rev 12 as a battle that takes place in 'heaven' -a spiritual battle.

Mentioned elsewhere in Isaiah 14.

"They" knew God. They traded their place above, for things below.

It makes for Him a good footstool.

 

[Mr E]

It makes for Him a good footstool.

If I could accomplish one thing here of my choosing, it would be to get this idea of perspective across. Gaining this one tiny insight changes everything because it lets you see clearly here below using the light from above.

Heaven is his throne where he is seated and reigns. The earth is where he sets his feet and walks. That path is lit with his word.

 

[Johann]

I don't mean to lead you along, because I think you walk fine on your own. I love your honest inquiries. Maybe I can at least point you in the right direction....

It's already been mentioned that you can only focus your attention one way at one time. For the moment-- look up. When you ask--"Who are the they?" -consider what it says of 'them' -- "They" suppress the truth. "They" knew God. "They" thought themselves wise, but became fools. "They" exchanged the glory of God for images.

With a spiritual perspective (looking up) it becomes rather obvious who the 'they' are. Who "knew" God, but exchanged that immortal life, trading it for images? (nah nah naaaaaah, nah nah nah)

You and I don't see eye to eye-but this is powerfully stated. Same as the wrath of God is PRESENTLY abiding on all unbelievers-Scripture is full of paradoxes and tension filled.
So it was not only to "them" only but is protracted in the present-ALL who suppress the truth in the present can be classified as "them".
Hope I adequately expressed myself.
Johann.

 

[Johann]

I did read your responses but I have a hard time following, not understanding how you study. I don’t mean that as criticism. Because I’m told the same thing often that what makes sense to me when I post, others say it makes no sense to them. The way you process…the way I process…are different.

Only speaking from my own experience. Forty-plus years of seeing the sky, the moon, the stars, the sun, the ocean, animals and mankind, the world …and I did not in anyway understand or know His attributes, nor did I know His Divine Nature. I’m genuinely telling you that I was so confused about His Divine Nature never ever learning of Him or His Divine Nature, Divine attributes by the natural of seeing those things and then saying “wow, now I get Gods Divine attributes and His Divine Nature.” “now I know, clearly seeing His Nature”. But it was the opposite…so confused in how is Jesus Christ the expression of God the Father. They are nothing at all alike, I would think. I knew God was a tyrant, a bully, a hell-burner, a praise- seeking, authority-seeking, never pleased or never satisfied fully, enraged God who despised women, despised weakness, imprisoned and blamed me saying “you are without excuse”… “you fully have known My Divine attributes, you have fully known My Divine Nature”! I did not know though. I can say this because I now know His Divine Nature, His Divine attributes. (Without an excuse). And His Nature and Attributes seem like nothing familiar that I once knew of Him all the while walking, talking, living and being in the creation …I did not know the Creator. We all say it…we have never known or experienced Love, Mercy Or Forgiveness like that of the Father. Something so foreign to this world, something so foreign to this creation. Yet we say the creation is what declares His Nature and Attributes instead of what declares the Divine Nature, Divine Attributes is the Fruit of the Spirit of God, All the Divine Nature, the Divine Attributes, all things pertaining to Life belonging to the Spirit of God. Here is an example. I was talking to a friend the other day and we were talking about getting alone with God to worship Him and praise Him. We talking about how He wants our worship and praise.
For forty-plus years what I was taught of Him as being His Divine Nature and Divine His Attributes by the creation I would say His wanting our praise and worship was for God. As some approval of Him, as admirers to adore Him.
But now I see His Divine attributes differently, His Divine Nature differently …which I think I know and have seen because of Him the Creator and not the creation. To me His Divine Nature and Divine Attributes are this: He doesn’t need my admiration or worship or praise, but His desiring for me to praise and to worship Him is for my benefit. His knowing the best place for my focus to be turned is on Him. His knowing that when I’m scared, weak, confused, depleted it is beneficial for me to look up instead of down…as the passage says think of these things which by the way those things listed His Divine Nature, His Divine Attributes are “these things” told to think on. I’m trying to tell you from experience I dis not know His Divine Nature not His Divine Attributes for forty-plus years. Knowing only a selfish hateful God. It is only now I can begin to know …oh wow, God is beyond what I thought I knew of Him. A Loving God who wants my praise and worship and admiration because it goes well for my soul to focus on Him. And He knows this, where my focus needs to be and He helps. Maybe that is all gibberish nonsense but I experienced two versions of His Divine Nature, His Divine Nature…one I plead, Hope and Pray is His true Divine Nature and Divine Attributes because His nature is so foreign from that which is made with hands.

Personally I don’t think we want to acknowledge who the “they” are in they know His attributes, they know His Divine Nature … because our condemnation upon others and vain way of seeing will have to go …like with the Mirror we will see our own natural face and not turn away walking forward in mercy going from glory to Glory, for faith to Faith…lowercase “g” to uppercase “G” because lowercase “g” will be done away with transformed into His “Glory” …movement … continue therein “the mirror” keeping focus of Liberty, transformed from glory to Glory. 2 Corinthians 5:16-21 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more. [17] Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. [18] And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; [19] To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. [20] Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. [21] For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Actually-if you study this passage the "them" is also to ALL at present-who suppress the truth.
Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;


Transliteration: katechontōn
Morphology: V-PPA-GMP
Verb - Present Participle Active - Genitive Masculine Plural
Strong's no.: G2722 (κατέχω)
Meaning: (a) to hold fast, bind, arrest, (b) to take possession of, lay hold of, (c) to hold back, detain, restrain, (d) to hold a ship, keep its head.

As I have said to @Mr E -Scripture is full of paradoxes and tension filled-WHO ARE THESE MEN?

Notice the PRESENT PARTICIPLE ACTIVE-Not "them only-but to ALL who AT PRESENT who are holding and suppressing-ing the truth.

Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Rom 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
Rom 1:23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
Rom 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
Rom 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
Rom 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
Rom 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
Rom 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
Rom 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
Rom 1:30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
Rom 1:31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
Rom 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
Johann.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Actually-if you study this passage the "them" is also to ALL at present-who suppress the truth.
Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

I also think it is relevant for today as well.

 

[Waiting on him]

Rom 1:23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man

 

[Waiting on him]

I also think it is relevant for today as well.

Oh yeah, many today serving a man god.

 

[Johann]

I also think it is relevant for today as well.

 

[Johann]

You were going to say something @Waiting on him?
Johann.

 

[Waiting on him]

You were going to say something @Waiting on him?
Johann.

I believe the scripture you presented says it all. Rome just couldn’t seem to kick their old habits.

 

[Johann]

I believe the scripture you presented says it all. Rome just couldn’t seem to kick their old habits.

-and the present world the same brother.
Johann.