They are without excuse

[M3n0r4h]

Who are they? In “they are without excuse? As it goes on, it says the “they” are those who know His attributes but practice exchange his attributes for an image…not only doing the attributes that lead to death but approving of those who do them by what themselves do?

Who are they?

they are the Tares and they are alive and well upon the earth today, just as they were when those words were penned.

 

[Mr E]

Who are they?

they are the Tares and they are alive and well upon the earth today, just as they were when those words were penned.

 

[M3n0r4h]

eventually ... justice will finally be served.

and it won't be served cold.

'cause God's comin' with THE HEAT!!

 

[VictoryinJesus]

eventually ... justice will finally be served.

and it won't be served cold.

'cause God's comin' with THE HEAT!!

This is where I struggle. to me God coming with the heat is to save and not to destroy. By what is written it may be said, no He destroys. Just read it. The Word says He destroys.

Just sharing what it means to me is that when He destroys (Imo) not like the motives of man is to destroy, but His Divine motive in “destroy” is to remove the vail cast over the nations. To remove that which binds and by destruction of bondage and death, the end is freedom. Maybe that is naive but even in God giving them over to a reprobate mind it is for the end motive of “for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved.”

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Love : Well you may throw your rock and hide your hand (if your right hand offends, cut it off)
Workin' in the dark against your fellow man
But as sure as God made black and white
What's down in the dark will be brought to the light. (So that every man will (shall)have praise of God)


Thinking about that last line “what is down in the dark will be brought to the light”
With the verse Jude 1:6 of what is down in the dark…And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. (Will be brought to the light)

Reserved what is dark to be brought into the light …but men love darkness instead of light, that their deeds be made known as evil, made manifest by the light. Neither do they come to the Light…Jesus spoke of the Word saying the word speaks of Me but you won’t come to Me….

Consider where it says what you hear in Darkness speak you into the Light…
1 Corinthians 4:5 Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.

Isaiah 45:3 And I will give thee the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places, that you may know that I, the Lord, which call you by thy name, am the God of Israel.
^what? There is treasures of darkness? There is hidden riches of secret places? Reserved for the coming of the Lord? Gives new meaning to for where your treasure is, there will your heart be also!

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Isaiah 45:3 And I will give thee the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places, that you may know that I, the Lord, which call you by thy name, am the God of Israel.

Did God give Christ Jesus the treasures of darkness (now a Light has shown unto the darkness to call those who sit in darkness out), and the hidden riches of secret places: Luke 2:34-35 And Simeon blessed them, and said unto Mary his mother, Behold, this child is set for the fall and rising again of many in Israel; and for a sign which shall be spoken against; [35] (Yea, a sword shall pierce through thy own soul also,) that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed. (The hidden riches of secret places brought into the Light) John 3:21 But he that does truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
Made manifest: Wrought of God: hidden riches unto His praise and Glory. Every time someone returns to God it is His receiving of the hidden (reserved) treasures of darkness (that one falls on his face and the counsels of his heart be made manifest, saying God is in you of a truth)
Christ receiving of the hidden riches of secret places. —Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things(treasures) of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts(the hidden riches of secret places): and then shall every man have praise of God.


1 Corinthians 3:20-23 And again, The Lord knows the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain. [21] Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are yours; [22] Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are yours; [23] And you are Christ's; and Christ is God's.
Gives new meaning to giving thanks unto God for all things.


Build up and edify. Strengthen your brothers...yet this world says …”no I prefer my brother be made to appear weak that I be made to appear strong.” —He knows the thoughts of the wise, that the thoughts are vain?
Which in return who is made weak and who is made strong. We say we love Jesus! Yet condemn the treasures of darkness that belong to Him, and rebuke the hidden riches unto His Glory and praise, and destroy them that belong to Him. For our own namesakes…scary who are the ones not willing to be thankful unto the lord, not willing to thank him as Lord and worthy to receive thanks for all things?

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Romans 1:20 Lexicon: For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

Who are they? In “they are without excuse? As it goes on, it says the “they” are those who know His attributes but practice exchange his attributes for an image…not only doing the attributes that lead to death but approving of those who do them by what themselves do?

The Invisible attributes, His Divine Nature clearly seen:

Diligence
Faith
Moral Excellence
Knowledge (of Christ)
Self-Control
godliness
Brotherly kindness
Love
If these attributes be in you and increasing they make you not unfruitful in the knowledge of Christ.

Romans 1:21 Lexicon: For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened.



They did not honor Him with their bodies:
Romans 12:1-2 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. [2] And be not conformed to this world: but be you transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

But exchanging His attributes and their hearts darkened…he who lacks these (His) attributes is blind…they became futile (vain) in their speculations



Romans 1:23 Lexicon: and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures.



And exchange the image(the attributes) of the incorruptible God, for the image (attributes) of in the form of corruptible man.

Unrighteousness
Wickedness
greed
Evil
Full of envy
Murder
Strife
Deceit
Malice
They are gossips
Slanderers
Haters of God
Violent
Arrogant
Boastful
Disobedience to Parents
Without understanding
Untrustworthy
Unmerciful

Therefore God gave them over to the lust (desires) of their hearts to impurity (not to the incorruptible man, but to the corruptible image of the form of a man.) so their bodies would be dishonored among them. I beseech you therefore, brethren, —by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

So they are without excuse
Knowing these things are not increasing His attributes and Divine Nature…but lead to death not only do they (without excuse) do the same but they also heartedly approve of those who do. So they (who practice; Unrighteousness, Wickedness, greed, Evil, Full of envy, Murder, Strife, Deceit, Malice, They are gossips, Slanderers, Haters of God, Violent, Arrogant, Boastful, Disobedience to Parents, Without understanding, Untrustworthy, Unmerciful

They Are without excuse —who pass judgment on others for what they do themselves and therefore condemn themselves. Judges of the attributes that should be increasing:
Diligence
Faith
Moral Excellence
Knowledge (of Christ)
Self-Control
godliness
Brotherly kindness
Love

They approve instead and exchange His attributes and condemn themselves by what they approve (the attributes of lust and death) as being His attributes.

"THEY" are sinners that never repent, they continously reject and resist God. They are irredeemable/ reprobate. God let them go, (gave them over) to what they desire.
He gave them ample opportunities to repent, He gave them all that is observed in the universe and all that is unseen and so they are without excuse. He says in a sense after all that has been given and revealed to them, "Okay, have it your way" and let's them go. Apparently His grace and mercy have limits, a line that you don't want to come close to or test. But He already knows which ones won't make it. Still _ to be fair _ He draws all men to Himself ... but "they" say no, "they" will never repent!
So man cannot blame God for not being chosen/saved, or having the opportunity.
If God intended for any to be reprobate, then that would be a valid excuse. At the Great White Throne Judgment Day, the reprobate could say, "You made me this way, blind and incapable of coming to you ... I had no choice in the matter... so that was Your purpose for me!" If Calvin was right, then that is a valid argument/ excuse. But man is without excuse, so Calvin was not exactly right in His TULIP theology. Irresistible Grace is resistible.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

"THEY" are sinners that never repent, they continously reject and resist God. They are irredeemable/ reprobate. God let them go, (gave them over) to what they desire.
He gave them ample opportunities to repent, He gave them all that is observed in the universe and all that is unseen and so they are without excuse. He says in a sense after all that has been given and revealed to them, "Okay, have it your way" and let's them go. Apparently His grace and mercy have limits, a line that you don't want to come close to or test. But He already knows which ones won't make it. Still _ to be fair _ He draws all men to Himself ... but "they" say no, "they" will never repent!
So man cannot blame God for not being chosen/saved, or having the opportunity.
If God intended for any to be reprobate, then that would be a valid excuse. At the Great White Throne Judgment Day, the reprobate could say, "You made me this way, blind and incapable of coming to you ... I had no choice in the matter... so that was Your purpose for me!" If Calvin was right, then that is a valid argument/ excuse. But man is without excuse, so Calvin was not exactly right in His TULIP theology. Irresistible Grace is resistible.

“They”
Might just turn out to be “us” who are given ample time but still refuse to give Him thanks for all things given pertaining to Life. I can’t express enough there is a blind spot…high mindedness …which keeps repeating the same Mantra of “it is them.” And “not us” …confusion.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

“They”
Might just turn out to be “us” who are given ample time but still refuse to give Him thanks for all things given pertaining to Life. I can’t express enough there is a blind spot…high mindedness …which keeps repeating the same Mantra of “it is them.” And “not us” …confusion.

Mr. E mentioned “they hold the truth in unrighteousness” …consider that “they hold the truth”
…that “truth” they hold belongs to Christ. Even if it is “I have sinned against God. I am poor, wretched, blind and miserable.” It is treasure of darkness. It is hidden riches in secret places. That Truth is for Him and His Glory and His praise. And they hold it, carrying it in unrighteousness a weak vessel….That the Power be of God and not men. Yet we say the Bible speaks of hidden treasure and hidden riches as hidden theology which puffs us up…yet the Word points at where the hidden treasure is, where the hidden riches are. Seek this First, and “all these things will be added unto you” the list is the attributes of His Divine Nature. The Fruit of the Spirit of God.

 

[M3n0r4h]

This is where I struggle. to me God coming with the heat is to save and not to destroy. By what is written it may be said, no He destroys. Just read it. The Word says He destroys.

Just sharing what it means to me is that when He destroys (Imo) not like the motives of man is to destroy, but His Divine motive in “destroy” is to remove the vail cast over the nations. To remove that which binds and by destruction of bondage and death, the end is freedom. Maybe that is naive but even in God giving them over to a reprobate mind it is for the end motive of “for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved.”

I think it's easier to embrace 'destroy' when you fully understand that there are a great number of people in this world who are wicked beyond your wildest imagination.

if you could witness (which I have not, thank the Lord) one instance of human sacrifice, or innocent child .... torture and mangling, destroying, ... you would want with all your heart for those people to be completely obliterated, and possibly not quickly.

now take that idea and multiply it by untold thousands, maybe more. there are factions that facilitate this kind of activity on a regular basis all over the world. those who assist in human trafficking all over the world, even in the most unassuming states and cities of America, deserve God's brutal justice.

the suffering that these organizations create is beyond comprehension on a scale unimaginable.

now, knowing that God's people will be saved (protected/shielded) from the wrath to come, do you not wish for all the evil people in the world to be utterly destroyed when our Lord and Savior returns with justice IN FIRE?

I know I surely do.

I don't need gore necessarily, but I hope I'm there to see it.

this world has been completely turned to evil and darkness and all that has been turned that way needs to burn away completely so that Holiness and Righteousness can reign upon the New Earth that will come thereafter.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I think it's easier to embrace 'destroy' when you fully understand that there are a great number of people in this world who are wicked beyond your wildest imagination.

if you could witness (which I have not, thank the Lord) one instance of human sacrifice, or innocent child .... torture and mangling, destroying, ... you would want with all your heart for those people to be completely obliterated, and possibly not quickly.

now take that idea and multiply it by untold thousands, maybe more. there are factions that facilitate this kind of activity on a regular basis all over the world. those who assist in human trafficking all over the world, even in the most unassuming states and cities of America, deserve God's brutal justice.

the suffering that these organizations create is beyond comprehension on a scale unimaginable.

now, knowing that God's people will be saved (protected/shielded) from the wrath to come, do you not wish for all the evil people in the world to be utterly destroyed when our Lord and Savior returns with justice IN FIRE?

I know I surely do.

I don't need gore necessarily, but I hope I'm there to see it.

this world has been completely turned to evil and darkness and all that has been turned that way needs to burn away completely so that Holiness and Righteousness can reign upon the New Earth that will come thereafter.

True that all is heartbreaking and I don’t deny a perverted heart. But as hideous as it is to visually witnesses the brutality of perversions…He also speaks of a perversion of destroying infants Christ died for. I don’t see it as He does. All I’m saying is if we can look and judge those who kill children as undeniably worthy of death, slower the better…yes shouting it with fullness of agreement as “the sin” is truly worthy of death…that is what I’m trying to say …or suggest…we are acknowledging that killing a brother who is weak and a child for whom Christ died, by our own admissions of what is right and what is wrong we condemn ourselves and are without excuse. Not able to say His Divine attributes were undisclosed.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

True that all is heartbreaking and I don’t deny a perverted heart. But as hideous as it is to visually witnesses the brutality of perversions…He also speaks of a perversion of destroying infants Christ died for. I don’t see it as He does. All I’m saying is if we can look and judge those who kill children as undeniably worthy of death, slower the better…yes shouting it with fullness of agreement as “the sin” is truly worthy of death…that is what I’m trying to say …or suggest…we are acknowledging that killing a brother who is weak and a child for whom Christ died, by our own admissions of what is right and what is wrong we condemn ourselves and are without excuse. Not able to say His Divine attributes were undisclosed.

Trying to suggests as an opinion of what “they are without excuse” means to me. It means if I destroy a child, the children of God for whom Christ died, by my own admissions …of what is right and what is wrong when someone perverted does the most perverted things and I don’t acknowledge my own perversions against His children…then I am also no different than someone who preys on the infants, babes only they are infants in Christ. As harsh as that is… a harsh mirrored view of what destruction looks like. Ugly. Not wanting to see what goes on in a heart against God. If I do the same against His body…then by my own doings of what I speak as wrong and hideous in the eyes of God(all the things you listed)…by my own doings of the same “spiritually”; I then Approve of all those things you spoke of. Because I do the same against His Children. Don’t misunderstand. I’m not saying those things are not wrong (all you listed)…but that we might be growing if we equally see how hideous our actions are (spiritually)against the Children of God.

 

[Mr E]

This is where I struggle. to me God coming with the heat is to save and not to destroy. By what is written it may be said, no He destroys. Just read it. The Word says He destroys.

Just sharing what it means to me is that when He destroys (Imo) not like the motives of man is to destroy, but His Divine motive in “destroy” is to remove the vail cast over the nations. To remove that which binds and by destruction of bondage and death, the end is freedom. Maybe that is naive but even in God giving them over to a reprobate mind it is for the end motive of “for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved.”

That's a good struggle. It's hard to juxtapose a loving Father with this idea of some sort of a fire-breathing monster bent on destruction. If you can see the fire as a means to an end, it might help. Rather than a destructive force burning out of control, can you see fire as a practical tool? Think of the way a farmer uses it, or the owner of the vineyard, burning away the useless branches that have been pruned, not because he hates those branches and wants to punish them-- far from it! He would rather they were productive and fruitful, but since they are not-- they are cut off and burned, for the love of the tree. For the good of the vineyard.

And as for me and my house..... If you have a home in a wildland area- it's wise to create a protective space. You might take and pre-burn a defensible distance to protect you from future fire dangers, so you burn everything for a certain distance as a kind of barrier to protect your house from future harm.

 

[dadman]

Indeed ... they are without excuse ... I tried to mix it up a bit with an atheist debate forum ... however, I got suspended for 10 years after just 15 minutes of challenging them .... here is a link to the thread if you feel you might pick up where I left off

DNA …. the atheist’s kryptonite​

....... indeed folks, the evidence belongs to the believer.

here is some 'ammunition' to refute the
'high things that exalt themselves against the knowledge of God' II Cor 10:5
13 reasons why I am not an atheist < This is another forum considered to be an Atheist hangout

also: you can feast on this .... Origin of Life / DNA / God and Evolution

 

[Mr E]

Love : Well you may throw your rock and hide your hand (if your right hand offends, cut it off)
Workin' in the dark against your fellow man
But as sure as God made black and white
What's down in the dark will be brought to the light. (So that every man will (shall)have praise of God)


Thinking about that last line “what is down in the dark will be brought to the light”
With the verse Jude 1:6 of what is down in the dark…And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. (Will be brought to the light)

Reserved what is dark to be brought into the light …but men love darkness instead of light, that their deeds be made known as evil, made manifest by the light. Neither do they come to the Light…Jesus spoke of the Word saying the word speaks of Me but you won’t come to Me….

Consider where it says what you hear in Darkness speak you into the Light…
1 Corinthians 4:5 Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.

Isaiah 45:3 And I will give thee the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places, that you may know that I, the Lord, which call you by thy name, am the God of Israel.
^what? There is treasures of darkness? There is hidden riches of secret places? Reserved for the coming of the Lord? Gives new meaning to for where your treasure is, there will your heart be also!

From the perspective of spiritual principles-- darkness relates to 'not knowing' and to things hidden, in the sense of not understood or seen clearly. Conversely, to walk in the light is to walk a path of understanding, to know and to reveal. It's not so much a matter of good and evil, but of hidden or revealed.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

That's a good struggle. It's hard to juxtapose a loving Father with this idea of some sort of a fire-breathing monster bent on destruction. If you can see the fire as a means to an end, it might help. Rather than a destructive force burning out of control, can you see fire as a practical tool? Think of the way a farmer uses it, or the owner of the vineyard, burning away the useless branches that have been pruned, not because he hates those branches and wants to punish them-- far from it! He would rather they were productive and fruitful, but since they are not-- they are cut off and burned, for the love of the tree. For the good of the vineyard.

And as for me and my house..... If you have a home in a wildland area- it's wise to create a protective space. You might take and pre-burn a defensible distance to protect you from future fire dangers, so you burn everything for a certain distance as a kind of barrier to protect your house from future harm.

“That's a good struggle. It's hard to juxtapose a loving Father with this idea of some sort of a fire-breathing monster bent on destruction. If you can see the fire as a means to an end, it might help. Rather than a destructive force burning out of control, can you see fire as a practical tool?”

Like Moses put a vail over his face so that the children of Israel could not see (look steadfast) the end and what abolished. Profound to me is what is: when the vail is taken away and removed in Christ…lately I’ve been thinking it is being able to look at someone and with the vail removed seeing the end that is to be abolished …speaks on
2 Corinthians 5:16-20 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more. [17] Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. [18] And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; [19] To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. [20] Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.


Seeing the end of that which is to be abolished …also makes me think of seeing this is to be abolished what manner of conversation should we have? Point is I understood what you said about the Fire. And where man’s motive may be this way, is that the same as God’s motive, in end.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

From the perspective of spiritual principles-- darkness relates to 'not knowing' and to things hidden, in the sense of not understood or seen clearly.

how will they know the things hidden in secret cause death, if there is only approval for it to stay hidden? like the song you posted by Johnny Cash, with a handheld behind your back holding a rock, to destroy your brothers. this is all opinion but my perspective. I get you disagree here. But to me it is saying we (don’t)disapprove of those hideous things done in secret, by our own refusal to bring to the Light what is kept in secret behind our backs. But while holding a rock behind your back, to destroy your brothers with, by the hiding of what is in your hand, you approve of the hidden things of "not knowing". To me walking in the Light and disproving those things done in secret that we say we hate and are worthy of destruction; we bring those things we have done worthy of destruction into the Light of Christ for its destruction. I can only speak from what I've experienced which then does make me doubt my faith and question God. The best I have felt is when something weighs heavy on me, and I bring it out into the Light. Even if it destroys me. But this world says "No" "We don't want to hear it. We don't care to hear it how it is eating you up inside. Hide it back away. Bury it." I want to tell my secrets but what I've been met with is, your secrets aren't that important. This world teaches to create an altered image of yourself. Put on a facade. Tell us lies. while inside the facade, we know is false, hides who we truly are and keeps us from healing in the Light of Christ. My mom or husband ...can remember which says: you can put lipstick on a pig...it is still a pig. To walk in the Light to me means to remove the facade. To reveal and bring out what is within into the Light and to continue in that "walking".

Conversely, to walk in the light is to walk a path of understanding, to know and to reveal. It's not so much a matter of good and evil, but of hidden or revealed.

it is not so much a matter of good and evil...disagree. Because something the early church did had a man down on his knees before God removing the facade and bring what was in darkness out into the Light for its destruction, cleansing, renewing, washing.... maybe i am wrong but to me to walk in the Light is to drop the rock behind your back, and to stop pretending under disguise. Like selfies that don't show it like it truly is. Yet, that is what the world teaches is "acceptable". what is teaching what is "acceptable" unto God? Is it the facade? i thought we are supposed to show no fear in removing the disguise, and by doing so approve of "removal of the disguise." not walking in darkness (kept hidden) but in the light (Exposed? The Light Searching and cleansing) ...but again that is just my perspective. that walking in the Light is not holding a rock behind your back to destroy your brother, while claiming you can't wait for things done in darkness to be revealed.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

“They”
Might just turn out to be “us” who are given ample time but still refuse to give Him thanks for all things given pertaining to Life. I can’t express enough there is a blind spot…high mindedness …which keeps repeating the same Mantra of “it is them.” And “not us” …confusion.

Romans 1:18-32 is talking about unbelievers whom "God let's go and gives them over to their sinful lives. These are the reprobates, not believers. "Since the beginning ..." is a reference to just about all humanity except 8 saved in the Ark. But after that anyone who continues to reject, resist and disobey God up to the moment of death, are reprobate. We don't know who they are, only God knows. Well, if we know people who deny Christ even on their death bed, then we know they are part of this group. Someone could be rebellious and wicked all their lives until their last days and then repent and be saved. So we can't judge who, we just know that many will be lost. And the whole point is, anyone who dies without a relationship with God is without excuse.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Romans 1:18-32 is talking about unbelievers whom "God let's go and gives them over to their sinful lives. These are the reprobates, not believers. "Since the beginning" is a reference to just about all humpty except 8 saved in the Ark. But after that anyone who continues tibeeject and resist God

1 Timothy 1:18-20 This charge I commit unto thee, son Timothy, according to the prophecies which went before on thee, that thou by them mightest war a good warfare; [19] Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck: [20] Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Romans 1:18-32 is talking about unbelievers whom "God let's go and gives them over to their sinful lives. These are the reprobates, not believers. "Since the beginning" is a reference to just about all humpty except 8 saved in the Ark. But after that anyone who continues tibeeject and resist God

Also for me …I can’t reconcile what the NT says of the Ark of Christ where if one sees a brother in need and shuts up his bowels of compassion towards him, the love of God isn’t in him. With the Ark Noah built.